The Definition Of Tank...

I've played tank before in FoW, and it consisted of Executioner's Strike, Thrill Of Victory, Gladiators Defence, Shield Stance, Shield's Up!, Dolyak Signet, Healing Signet, Rebirth. It had 16 tactics, 9 axe, 10 strength. I thought it was a pretty decent tanking build, because it withstood massive ammounts of enemies and I wouldn't die. Shortly after the ele-damage nerf+book trick nerf i switched it up, and now it's become: Cyclone Axe, Triple Chop, Dolyak Signet, Watch Yourself, Bonetti's Defence, Endure Pain, Healing Signet, Rebirth. It has 12 Tactics, 12 Axe, 12 Strength. Both builds ran on Ascalon armor with 25 energy. My question is this: What is a "Tank"? Is it a warrior that deals damage, or is it a warrior that absorbs it and takes aggro? Becuase my first "Tank" was primarily defensive, focusing on taking aggro and letting the eles do all the damage. My later (and current) "Tank" is more balanced, with a high armor rating+lots of damage output.

I've asked many people to define "Tank" for me, but I've gotten responses that range from "Defensive MoFo" to "Offensive BA". Personally, I define tank as a balanced character that can absorb damage, but also hold his own in a fight. What is your definiton?

the "tank" is the person in the group assigned to hold and manage all the aggro for the group. this allows the damage dealers to kill the aggro free of any kind of combat.

Warriors are not just tanks. Monks tank. mesmers tank. ele's can tank.. rangers can tank.

Just so long as they can survive the aggro they are holding for the group. they can tank..

MESMERS can tank? I missed the memo on THAT one....

lmao *waits for the mesmer community to get wind of this comment and beat you mercilessly over it*

Yeah, they got some nice stances that can help them tank just as good as a warrior. The mantras and Distortion are mainly the case. Illusion of weakness can help too unless you've got enchant stripping.

hmm... I should go try this "mesmer" tanking!

40 seconds later...

I got owned by a Charr.

COME AT ME, MESMER COMMUNITY! MY MESMER HAS FULL FOW, I CAN MAKE FUN OF HIM IF I WANT!

I agree with you - when I think tank I think "major armored car with big guns" so to me it would be essentially both...
However a tank is not a warrior using massive amounts of spells (that folks is a caster) XD

Get aggro. Don't die. Save the squishies! Do various emotes including /flex about how you just killed the whole group of baddies by yourself while the squishies stayed far away from trouble waving their wands!

I think the term tank was initially used to describe a warrior maxxed out with stances so he could hold a gear or some other object to draw aggro in a quest or mission. The tank was meant to take as little dmg as possible while holding aggro, so the dmg dealers could take out the enemies.

Over time, the word "tank" has evolved to describe any character that could properly take mele dmg without overtaxing the monk(s).

Mesmers can do the Droks run. They can also 55, but that's really to do with monk skills, any caster/Mo can do that.

I remember tanking with my mesmer, it worked around ascalon, sadly i had to delete him b/c he was giving my other male toons fruity looks

I prefer a balance of damage and defense in PvE... although the damage you do by hacking away at a single enemy with an axe is negligible compared to a necro echoing spiteful spirit on everything around you, it just feels boring to stand there and do nothing.

I usually use for "tanking": Cyclone Axe, Exec, Penetrating, DBlow, Healing Hands, Bonetti's, Res (Rebirth or Sig) + Last slot varies, but for FoW, Holy Veil is teh leetsauce.

I agree with Narutoscryed on his definition of tanking. I don't think that just because a tank should handle aggro and be a stout wall of defense that having a decent offense is bad, but a tank should generally be the person taking the beating while others do their stuff from a safer area.


As for the mesmer tanking, I would point out that there have been mesmers that have done the droks run and soloed UW. With the right skills in the right area, any class can tank. In the case of mesmers, they would likely need some monk secondary skills to tank and I would not imply that a mesmer can tank as well as a warrior any time and any place, but it is possible to do in some areas.

Tank: draw & hold aggro while staying alive, mostly defensive skills.
W's do have the advantage when tanking because of superior armor, usually carrying a shield where other classes usually do not, and absorption runes. W's have great defensive stances and skills, but as others pointed out, so do other classes (and by mixing primary/secondary classes, just about any character has access to great defensive stances & skills).
Damage-dealing W's can be good characters, and usually can tank b/c of the W's armor advantages, but strictly speaking, a damage-dealing or balanced build is not the same as a "tank" build.

Unless you farm solo or in a tight farming-group (4.man groups), tanking is completely useless and a shame on every warrior's face. "Watch yourself" is totally enough for all PvE-matters, while the rest goes into nice damage dealing. The true warrior's spirit.

Feh. My Mesmer can solo through the Prophet's path with no problem.

I generally see a "tank" as separate from a particular skill set or setup. Generally a tank goes into the mob first, attracts their attention and then holds the enemy at bay while the backline casters do their work.

The main job of the tank is to minimize damage to themselves, keep the attention of the most hard hitting baddies, absorb incoming spikes, and in the worst case, be able to survive on their own with no monk support if the backlines get mobbed. The tank also allows monks to focus healing - avoiding spamming 5 energy heals on everyone in the party, or 10e prot enchants on casters that run away and never get hit again.

Some examples of where a good tank makes the job much smoother are vs aatxes/terrorwebs/mindblades in UW, berserkers/abysmals in FOW, Thorns/Dredge in Deep/Warren, Dwarven warriors in SF/Greneth.

My monk's motto is "anyone can tank!" =)
When a party loses all its warrior tanks I usually pick out a tank in the following order - ranger, necro, ele, monk (or monk then ele if the enemy melee has a lot of war/ranger interrupts)

A tank isn't as important in most quests and missions, but where the melee enemy hits hard, or use frequent caster interrupts, it can make all the difference in the world. Unless you got a bond monk or prot spirit rit, then everyone thinks they're invincible !

I've played a few MMORPG's and mainly play Warrior in all of them, and through it all I can say most definitively that the most important aspect of tanking is aggro management. Damage dealing and mitigation varies accordingly with every encounter, but neither matters if you can't hold aggro.

Tanks are worthless. However warriors are not. "Watch Yourself!" is good enough for most PvE places. Just use Defy Pain for harder areas, and perhaps Dolyak Signet if needed. Stances are worthless, some PvE mobs use Wild Blow or Wild Strike. I can almost "tank" the Shiroken Eles forever, depending on if there are mesmers or not. Their Sliver Armor does all of 5 or 6 dmg to me. Just need these several skills, then fill the rest of your skill bar with attacks and a rez. Warriors should be able to take and deal physical damage. I usually have a 16 in swords, 10 in Tactics and 10 in strength. Don't depend on stances for defence, just keep adding armor with those 3 skills. Oh, yeah, "I will Survive!" is amazing.

It's funny to see people say " Tank LFG" in pvp lol.

Tank - Military. an armored, self-propelled combat vehicle, armed with cannon and machine guns and moving on a caterpillar tread. (www.dictionary.com) =P

May i copy this and use it as my sig? I laughed when i read it :P

Tank: Also known as "Tanker", this refers to a character-often a Warrior primary-with heavy armor and high hit points who fights in melee and soaks up damage that might otherwise devestate less-protected characters.
(Guild Wars: Factions stratagy guide definition)

Tank: Any character, PC or NPC, that takes aggro and remains alive so that the casters and other characters can fight in reletive safety. Traditionally a Warrior.
(my defintion)

Tank: One who guzzles massive amounts of alcoholic beverages, in a surprisingly short amount of time..... oh wait.......

Narrow point of view...I often tank during chest runs so that others can get to a chest, open it and get their drop without dropping dead. Taking aggro and running mobs away from chest has become most profitable (over 200k in the last 3 weeks as a casual farmer)..."worthless?" maybe in PvP, but quite useful if you are accumulating wealth.

lol sure knock yourself out

First off to adress the mesmer thing. Yes emsmers can tank but no it isnt worth it when you have warriors that can take more damage and become less of a burden to the monks on your team.

In my opinion and I have gotten into arguements with my mindless alliance members on it. A tank may have 1 or 2 attack skills (usually I use 2) and the rest are stances and shouts that benefit your team (with the acception of "For great Justice" I use that for my 2 attack skills). My view on tanks are that they collect all the aggro so you damage dealers (Casters and maybe 1 ranger) can kill the enemies easily without them moving everywhere. All the attention of your enemies should be on the tank because they are you armored vehicle that do enough damage to annoy your enemies. You may have a secondary tank that stops and enemies that leak through and get into the casters, but mainly tanks collect aggro. There are not tanks that have all attack skills and dont care about aggro, tanks are normally looking at their radar observing the red dots and making sure they are all on him (woops her also, damn politcial correctness!)

In PVP you do not have tanks, unless you are facing AI which only happens when you fight the zaishen, and also if you are fighting mindless idiots. The definition of tank serves no purpose in PVP as having everyone on your team attack the warrior first normally is pointless when you have good Monks and sometimes Rit's.



To sum it all up, tanks take more damage then they deal. Tank's are not damage dealers so stop saying "Tank LFG" when your skill bar has all attack skills and you dont know how to manage aggro and lead your team. Yes tank's should be the ones leading your group to, they do of course run into the groups first and they decide when to aggro, hopefully not your casters...


ADDED: The Definition of a tank and real life is different then a tank in Guild Wars. You cant go off and say that a tank in real life does massive damage so a tank in guild wars can too! They are 2 very different things and real life tank definitions serve no purpose in this arguement.

Although people may have their own detailed, reasonable definitions of 'tank', 'tank' in the game itself simply means warrior in most situations.

In other words,
Tank == Warrior primary

When you see 'tank lfg' or 'glf tank', most likely that tank refers to a warrior primary.

lol @ mrscoombes,
the true definition of a tank ^^
i agree with that though, a tank shud be sum1 who can both take an deal dmg, a pure dmg absorber wud be more of a meat shield than a tank IMO :P

You obviously don't play in PUGs very often. On many occasions I've acted as a tank and been the only reason the group survived. Sad, but true.

Tank back before the AoE improvement just stood there took dmg while the once l££t fire ele's nuked them to hell.

IMO a tank should just soak up dmg and leave the dmg dealing to the pro's.

A person who says Tank LFG is dull. There's only warriors ingame not tanks.

You can hold aggro to an extent (not all), but not tank. To tank would basically be impossible since the gear trick was taken from the game.

As a warrior you have higher armor than most against physical and decent elemental defense, so that's why you want to hold aggro. A simple armor buff, USEFUL attacks that do bonus damage or add conditions/remove stances/interrupt, and a heal, coupled with adequate monks go a long way.

A warrior with low weapon mastery and high tactics 0 str and high healing is useless. High armor and a simple heal from Healing signet when not under heavy fire goes farther since the more time you spend killing the less you have to heal. With an armor buff you can heal sig away without too much extra damage as well.

Compare this to the healing prayers warrior that, with its low energy regen and energy pool, is restricted to primarily adrenal attacks since it cannot use that many energy skills for attacks.

It is this and more Warriors that use strenght based skills such as endure and dfy pain to absorb most of the damage.Warriors that use thier weapons mastery are the damage dealers.Yes castors can tank but it is different.

Agro control is the job of the entire party, not just the warrior. If the party is too close to the warrior when the mob is agroed, then there will be problems. If the casters get too close even after the mob is agroed, or if casters use DoTAoEs (even if they snare them) then there will still be problems. If casters or rangers pull, then agro won't go as smoothly either. Anyone who henches should have a longbow on swap, so warriors should have longbows on swap if pulling is needed. There are 8 players in a party, and this isn't WoW. All 8 of them play a part in agro control.

A properly build warrior, with high weapon mastery can deal plenty of damage and 'tank.' Just ask anyone who farms FoW with a warrior. A 'true' tank with 9-12 weapon mastery, and a bar full of stances/healing prayers is a waste of space.

To get the most out of tactics and strength skills, you don't need a high spec in either of them. By pumping weapon mastery, and wearing a +1 weapon mastery helm, nothing is being 'gimped' in terms of atribute points.

Tank = Meatsheild or "Bullet bag" if you like

Indeed it is, it's easily the most overlooked useful Warrior skill, especially by wammos that think their monk skills are better.

Shout. You gain +3 Health regeneration for each condition you are suffering.

The gear trick made tanking a bit "mindless" both for the warrior and the rest of the party. Now agro handling takes a bit skill and party interaction, so considering your average PUG it is much harder to do effective tanking nowadays.

Regards,
Cloudbunny

Tank



Btw, 90% of the time aggro control in PvE isn't the tank's fault, it's the eles that are so desperate to use their spells that they follow super close behind, or even go first so that they have all aggro. Playing a bonder you get far more energy from Essence Bond or Life Bond on the ele than the warrior.

rofl.

Ele's and their silly PBAoE spells... you'd think they'd learn to at least carry armor of the earth if they're going to do all that silly nonsense.

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