"Can't touch this"

Hey_homies

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

22 Sep 2006 at 04:15 - 1

I have a question on that paragon skill i just saw on the guildwars.com site.it saids it makes touching skills to fail against you and i was wondering if monks on your team wanted to use a touch healing spell it,does it negates that touch?or is it only negates targets touch skills?

Toxic RD

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Vancouver, B.C.

Seers of Serpents

Mo/Me

22 Sep 2006 at 04:16 - 2

I would imagine it'll say something like : Enemies touch spells used against you fail

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

22 Sep 2006 at 05:32 - 3

This is a very good question. Even if it did negate touch skills used by allies, I'd much rather have no Blackout, Shock, and Touch Ranger bs than a Healing Touch.

Gforce

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Isle Of Solitude

Super Kaon Action Team [SuKa]/[DoDo]

22 Sep 2006 at 06:09 - 4

I believe healing touch is a spell

mega_jamie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Warlords of Ruin

A/Mo

22 Sep 2006 at 06:24 - 5

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10047578

CTT is already under discussion here.

Says all Touch skills,s o Healing Touch is probably included

MasterDinadan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

The Zaishen Force

Me/E

22 Sep 2006 at 19:50 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gforce

I believe healing touch is a spell

Healing Touch is a spell, but it is also a touch. Touches can be either spells or skills.

Spura

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

24 Sep 2006 at 21:42 - 7

Tried this shout out. It doesn't counter anything. It is like spellbreaker, it makes touch skills fail, but doesn't make them have to recharge. So a toucher only needs about a second and 20 energy(5 per touch) to power through. Total crap skill. If it was time based instead of attempt based it would be much better. Imagine spellbreaker making next 8 spells fail. You would just press 5 energy spell multiple times and for the cost of 40 energy you'd get rid of spellbreaker in a second or 2. This is the same for touch skills. They just need energy to fire it off 4 times and they can do it in a second.
It got even more ridiculous when a guy with signet of midnight walked up to me. He got through in about 1 sec for free.

F- on this skill for arena net.

Kais Unduli

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Room V

24 Sep 2006 at 23:02 - 8

Well that's why we get a preview event, so Anet can see how the skills work. This might get buffed, or it might remain the same.

Anryla

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Alt Control Delete

25 Sep 2006 at 06:55 - 9

The skill "hinders" touches, it doesnt completely "disables" them wich is good and this skill is a nice favorite of mine allready.
It is all about how you look at the skill thought but if I were to look at CTT as a touch disable skill it is useless yes. But as a hinder/annoyance a good skill.

Anir

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

[HoC]

26 Sep 2006 at 03:44 - 10

Quote:

So a toucher only needs about a second and 20 energy(5 per touch) to power through. I will assume you're referring to R/N touch skills (as blackout, shock, shove, etc, can't be spammed like that)... In that case, you've just negated roughly 260 dmg against a party member and negated 260 health points worth of healing for the touch ranger. I'd say it's pretty useful.

Cirian

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

European Union

The Amazon Basin

26 Sep 2006 at 10:22 - 11

R/N's meeting it could use Plague Touch @ 2e a shot to rip through it pretty fast then. That, or cast Vocal Minority to disable shouts.

Anryla

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Alt Control Delete

26 Sep 2006 at 10:25 - 12

Of course when Vocal Minority is casted the monk hopefully removes the hex.
Counters here and there. It's a good skill that helps the team a bit and its not only Touchers this skill is good at but I think we have allready said that

Spura

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

26 Sep 2006 at 17:13 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anryla

Of course when Vocal Minority is casted the monk hopefully removes the hex.

Well if that is so simple, why don't we make Backfire and Pacifism wars size aoe hexes with duration=recharge+cast time???
If you play random arena with a paragon with shouts and chants and low or no spear mastery this is effectively 100% shutdown of the character, you are like a caster wanding. For instance attacker shutdown like Pacifism is single target, can't be kept up all the time, and also requires target to not take any damage. So why don't we have a skill that disables attacking in AoE and can be kept up 100% of the time? Surely the fact that there is hex removal in the game would make that OK, right?

Crazy anet.

Quote: Originally Posted by Anir I will assume you're referring to R/N touch skills (as blackout, shock, shove, etc, can't be spammed like that)... In that case, you've just negated roughly 260 dmg against a party member and negated 260 health points worth of healing for the touch ranger. I'd say it's pretty useful. Sounds like 4 negated touch skills is like 260 health not stolen, right? The thing is that touchers(at least the offering of blood variant that I use) have infinite amount of touches, so any prevention has to be analysed from time investment perspective(damage per second), rather than number of touches.

Normal touch scenario:

0.75 touch 0.75 after cast 0.75 bite 0.75 aftercast 0.75 touch 0.75 aftercast etc....
So basically you'd make him gain 0 HP for 6 sec. But that would be if touches failed at the end and aftercast occures. The way they fail is they fail at the start of cast, no aftercast, no recharge. So it just comes down to how fast he can press the button and network latency.
0.1 touch failed 0.2 touch failed 0.1 touch failed 0.2 touch failed 0.75 touch 0.75 aftercast 0.75 bite 0.75 aftercast. You delayed him for less than a second and provided he has enough energy it extends time it took him to kill you for 1 second.

Here's an example that should clarify my point. Let's say it takes 10 touches to kill you. You have can't touch this that makes 4 touches fail. Toucher has at least 14 touches worth of energy(and they can use plague touch if they wanna save up).
Normally you would die in 10 touches, that is 15 sec(0.75 cast and 0.75 aftercast).
But with shout you will die in 14 touches. 4 fail when cast starts, no recharge, no after cast, in less than a second then proceed as normal. 16 sec. This shout gave you 1 sec extra to live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anir

I will assume you're referring to R/N touch skills (as blackout, shock, shove, etc, can't be spammed like that)... Since failing a skill does not incurr a recharge, this is false. Blackout and shove can be spammed, provided you have energy to do it. So "Can't touch this" does little to stop R/Me with blackout.

I think this skill is currently very unfair. It is overpowered against certain touch skills, shock for instance. Shock will still have exhaustion. For instance 2 warriors with 20 energy pool will never be able to shock anyone on your team, since they will both get 20 exhaustion each for trying to push through and you can keep this shout up 24/7 so this means shock warriors are hurt hardcore.

And at the same time it is severly underpowered against other touch skills like R/N using vamp X and plague touch.

Instead of failing the touch skills it should make next x touch skills' cast times triple(2.25 sec). This would nerf all touch skills equally(they all have same cast times). And it would piss off touchers way more than burning through a bit of energy in 1 sec. And at the same time it would make shock warriors still doable(1 warrior goes for shock, other stays on target or something), something it currently is way too nerfed by this skill.

Anir

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

[HoC]

28 Sep 2006 at 04:03 - 14

Quote:

Since failing a skill does not incurr a recharge, this is false. Blackout and shove can be spammed, provided you have energy to do it.

Woops, my bad. In any case, you make it sound like you need to completely disable touch skills for this to be useful. The point of this skill is to make touch skills less effective, which it does.

Also, I just remembered you compared this to Spellbreaker, which is an elite. Maybe if this was an elite, it'd be underpowered.

Given decent energy management by the user, this shout will cause 4 (maybe 5 at high levels?) touch skills to fail every 20 seconds for each person affected. This is plenty, in my opinion because: 1) touchers are not invincible killing machines, and 2) anybody that wants to live is not going to stand still while trying to absorb vamp touches (or any type of damage for that matter) and use nothing but CTT.

Quote:

So "Can't touch this" does little to stop R/Me with blackout. It won't make you invincible against an R/Me blackout, but it will definitely make it tougher to place a well-timed blackout.

Spura

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2005

28 Sep 2006 at 19:05 - 15

I'd still much rather see it cause triple casting time or whatever. That doesn't disable touches completely. Right now it doesn't stop ranger touchers at all and it completely owns shock warrior and shock assassin and Headbutt warrior. My suggestion of making touch skills have longer cast would make all touches equally countered, and still leave Shock usable without getting 40 or so exhaustion. It would just pretty much ruin spamming.