Spiritual Pain - OUCH
Hella Good
Say "Hi" to Spiritual Pain spiking. Toss in GoRenewal, or double/fast recharge it using any other means and depending on situation. The skill is a killer and has just made Me hell of a lot stronger in PvE, and a viable spike damage dealer in PvP. I love the skill, seems pretty balanced to me, too. Hope they don't nerf it due to overuse. Me spike with Spiritual Pain and Shatter Chant, yum... Great skill.
TeeGee
Yup nice skill - especially cause it can be used even when no spirits are around (compared to unnatural signet). Renewing it make it even more powerfull, and when spirits are present it's just uber.
It's even good in PvE - almost like mesmer fireball or something.
It's even good in PvE - almost like mesmer fireball or something.
Con_Artist
I've been using this spell on the luxon side of Aspenwood and it's awesome for clearing out the Kurzick Mine Cleansers or any unlucky straggler who happens to be in the range of a spirit. Definitely one of my favorite chapter 3 mesmer skills.
Avarre
It's going on my PvE skillbar, I can tell that 
HolyHawk
I was wondering, the description says it will recharge if it hits a spirit; does the spirit need to be targeted, or hitting includes if it gets hit by nearby damage as well?
TeeGee
Yeah I was wondering the same...
I guess you have to target spirit directly though
I guess you have to target spirit directly though
HolyHawk
Aww, spirits tend to be put away or lonely. Still, powerfull spell to use in ward lovers or chunk of spirits.
TeeGee
Well it's powerfull on it's own. And with spirits it's just supreme. It's best mesmer skill for spiking since shatter enchantment. It also does AoE damage for clustererd foes/PvE.
The way it counters spirits is only great addition.
The way it counters spirits is only great addition.
Avarre
As far as the preview is concerned, it's devastating on mobs that use toxicity while standing in groups.. you can get three casts off in under 5 seconds, and that's alot of damage.
Hella Good
To be honest, I havent even used it against Spirits. I use it for spike damage and it's superb. The most versatile profession in the game can now officially spike. Be scared, be very very scared. :-)
Con_Artist
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHawk
I was wondering, the description says it will recharge if it hits a spirit; does the spirit need to be targeted, or hitting includes if it gets hit by nearby damage as well?
Nope, you don't have to target a spirit to make use of Spiritual Pain. You just need to make sure that the nearby damage caused by the skill hits a spirit in order for it to be recharged.
cerb
have you seen deppen vom ichfickdeinemutter or smth's build pook?
they ran 7 mo/me with surge, burn, spirit pain and mantra of concentration fill with monk skills, and one me/r with spirits for holding in HA. they flawlessed milkway pirates in like 2 minutes, it was insane.
they ran 7 mo/me with surge, burn, spirit pain and mantra of concentration fill with monk skills, and one me/r with spirits for holding in HA. they flawlessed milkway pirates in like 2 minutes, it was insane.
TeeGee
Quote:
Nope, you don't have to target a spirit to make use of Spiritual Pain. You just need to make sure that the nearby damage caused by the skill hits a spirit in order for it to be recharged.
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The most versatile profession in the game can now officially spike. Be scared, be very very scared. :-)
Well it was very good for spiking before NF with shatter and burn. Now it's even better!
Kriel Drache
I decided not to do the Preview Event, so could someone tell me whether or not Spiritual Pain does that ever-famous armor-ignoring damage Mesmers are so well known for?
Avarre
Of course it does!
Yes, you only have to hit a spirit with the spell, it doesn't have to be what was targetted.
TeeGee
Quote:
Yes, you only have to hit a spirit with the spell, it doesn't have to be what was targetted.
*Falls on knees and starts worshipping the skill* | Im wondering - is it worth to take this instead of e burn in my usual dom build? Renewal/Diversion/Shame/EBURN/B-out/Shatter Ench/Drain Ench/rez Energy draining effect of burn is also nice. And I don't feel like throwing away anything else (maybe shame if absolutely needed). What do you say Avarre? As I remember You were using similiar build as mine for PvP.
Avarre
I'd drop Shame personally but that's because I don't like it's ugly recharge (it's ok in TA, but GvG?). I would leave eBurn in for pressure/spike capability.
Then again with renewal... well you'd have to experiment, I suppose. I don't like how shame can be easy stripped by someone else though..
TeeGee
The point of shame is that with renewal and double HSR on wand/foci recharge isn't issue. And with two mesmers spamming shame on both monks they have hard time removing it.
That's my problem - shame is good for shutdown (actually sometimes better than diversion as it stops spell during spike). E Burn is good for pressure/spike/denial. Bah I will mind about that when NF will be released for real. If there will be no teams with spirits then E burn will do for spikes. If every team and their dogs will carry nasty ghosts (like Toxicity if they will not nerf it)then I will find a way for fitting Spiritual Pain. Also I guess that SP would be better for HA than GvG - seeing that mesmers usualy carry unnatural signets there.
Hella Good
GoR/Spiritual Pain dishes out so much damage that compensating for it will require a lot of nrg. But I don't see it working well in a Diversion spam- you will want to use GoR for Diversion not SP. And SP is good on it's own but it does have a bit of a long recharge at 30s.
TeeGee
GoR is not that needed for diversion - it has low recharge already (and 2 x HSR makes that even shorter). It's used mainly for enchant removal (double shatter in the spike ftw), chaining shame between diversions and doubling EBurn on BL monks (semi-surging). Still I can't see place for it in usual GvG dom mesmer's build. Even surger has tight skillbard and does lots of damage anyway. As I said - I guess that SP will see lot's of use in HA and PvE.
Avarre
I'm considering running it in a triple-dom mes setup as a form of spike/pressure, along with wastrel's demise.
Dragannia
Honestly I dislike Spiritual Pain. Mesmers are not supposed to do direct damage in threatening amounts. Spiritual Pain is used for damage, and damage only. Mesmer skills should be used for other things; Unnatural Signet is used for damage too, but it's too unwieldy to be used for spikes. Shatter Enchant only works if there's an enchantment. E-Surge and E-Burn only do damage if the enemy has energy, and it is more of a use pressuring than spiking.
I just don't like this newer, 'cruder' image one skill gives.
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragannia
Unnatural Signet is used for damage too, but it's too unwieldy to be used for spikes.
Unnatural is incredible for spikes, it's a quick 70+ damage that doubles as spirit removal.
I've used everything in Drag's post for spiking before, and Spiritual is one of the most effective as it's 100~ damage for 10 energy, 1s cast, unconditional. It won't fit in every skillbar (a single mesmer in a team might not bring it, from skillbar constrictions) but with 2-3 mesmers in a team I would take it immediately.
Dragannia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Unnatural is incredible for spikes, it's a quick 70+ damage that doubles as spirit removal.
I've used everything in Drag's post for spiking before, and Spiritual is one of the most effective as it's 100~ damage for 10 energy, 1s cast, unconditional. It won't fit in every skillbar (a single mesmer in a team might not bring it, from skillbar constrictions) but with 2-3 mesmers in a team I would take it immediately. Unnatural is okay, but it has too big of a recharge. And Mesmers are usually pressed for their skill slots anyway. I always try to fit one E-Management, two pressure (eg Diversion, Energy Burn), the Elite (usually Expel for me), a utility skill (such as Draw Conditions) or a supplementary skill (for example, Gale, Blackout) and a res, as well as Shatter Enchantment. I've used Unnatural, but I much prefer just E-Burn and Shatter, and usually Distortion. The problem I have with Spiritual is that it's too effective. It's simple, direct, uncomplicated damage. It has a good condition, but the point remains that it's simply much too crude for Mesmers to use, and lacks the finesse that Mesmers have.
Avarre
'Killing with the point lacks artistry, but don't let that hold your hand when the opening presents itself'.
(Cookie for anyone who knows where that's from).
Dragannia
Dune. Cookie please.
Avarre
You didn't cite who said it. No cookie.
Dragannia
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Originally Posted by Avarre
You didn't cite who said it. No cookie.
But..but...Google didn't tell me who said it...
Avarre
You're supposed to know the line itself, not just Google it! You fail!
So yeah... SP is nice, on a more supportish dom mesmer (where usually unnatural would be used).
Dragannia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
You're supposed to know the line itself, not just Google it! You fail!
I know! I tried to cheat! It Backfired, and my Ignorance Wracks my Mind. I hope you won't Mistrust me after this Shame and feel some Sympathetic...ness for me.
TeeGee
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You didn't cite who said it. No cookie
. | Gurney Halek to Paul? Am I right? I have no time to browse the book now. I'm shooting from memory...
Avarre
Close, but it was Idaho
 A 'flashbacked' quote while fighting Jamis.
TeeGee
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Close, but it was Idaho
Blasted Duncan! I never liked him... | Being back on topic: Yes SP can be used in mesmer heavy team, where running multiple copies of shatter/burn would be redundant, or on support/utility role mesmer (HA). For usual domination build it's just too straighforward and simple. Sure does damage - but only that, and nothing else - compared to other mesmer possibilities.
TeeGee
Sorry...
Double post due to lag...
Hella Good
You cannot just dismiss SP because its simply direct damage and Me arent supposed to do that. Who said so? They give us the ability to spike in NF, and I mean really SPIKE. Along with the pathetic attempt to make Spell Theif builds move viable (which will never happen until they make Thevery spells not overlap each other), these are the only 2 new things. Given that the new elites are uneventful to say the least, I'll take the spiking ability anyday now with no protest whatsoever. And no, using the new and improved Frags doesn't rly count as anything new.
Scourgey
I think it's overpowered and will be nerfed when chapter 3 comes out. Sry guys, high aoe damage for a mesmer isn't going to last
TeeGee
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You cannot just dismiss SP because its simply direct damage and Me arent supposed to do that. Who said so?
I did not dismiss SP. I just said that in usual GvG mesmer's build there will be no place for it. Fine it can spike. But Shatter Ench is better spiking tool anyday, and EBurn does only 17 less damage and has 1.5x faster recharge - which is very important as spikes are going very often in GvG. No one will drop one of this two in favor of SP. And rest? Diversion? Energy managmnet? Team utility? No, SP isn't worth dropping those. | Also I said that it will find its use in >2 mesmer teams and HA. I never said I'm dismissing it entirely. It's good skill - but nothing meta-breaking.
Hella Good
When I meant Me spiking I did mean team spiking. FoC and OG spiking are still very popular. FC Air and R spike are often seen, too. Spiking is fine, despite the tendency to lean towards balanced builds. All I was point at is that an 8 people team build focused on using this skill for spiking can be just as effective if not more effective than any of the above. We are talking about two completely different things here. You are talking about fitting the skill in an existing build, I am talking about making a build around it. It might be worth considering, esp. having in mind that 4-5 Me can easily drop a target in no time inbetween SP, Shatter Chant, maybe Phantom Pain/Shatter Del or whatever else. And since Me is the most versatile prof, giving the prof the ability to team spike like that makes Me even more dangerous than be4. I hope this clarifies what I am talking about here.
TeeGee
Allright I get it now. I was discussing fitting SP in existing buid and that fixed me to not see your point of making new build - sorry.
Sure this skill can be good for full-spike team. Still I like balanced more, but that's matter of personal preference. Anyway full spike team falls into my 2+ mesmer category, doesn't it?
Siddious
Very nice skill, but its certain to be hit by Anet's nerfbat....considering how much we mesmers get nerfed.
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