Barrager

I'm not seeing the advantage to going P/R over R/P. The skills that would be useful to bring, "Go for the Eyes!", "Fall Back!", "Find Their Weakness!", are in Command, with the possible exception of Anthem of Flame in leadership, but you need 4 ranks for 2 seconds of burning and 12 ranks for 3 seconds, which isn't very healthy for your point spread.

If, however, the Paragon is there *primarily* to provide those effects, then spec'ing to bow req only, or even bringing a spear (sacrilege, I know, not using Barrage) it could be a pretty useful contribution to a B/P team.

i guess you could go R/p and it would be fine... some reasons i could think of..

1. energy management barrage+gfte+leadership=unlimited energy
2. higher armour (depending on situation of course)
3. ability to take leadership skills(burning refrain, anthem of flame,their of fire) and make command skills more effective with runes.
4, there is not really a need to have a ranger primary... the energy saving primary of paras is better in this case because of all the shouts. and you dont really need the 16 marksmanship as much because every hit is a critical.(it helps of course)

I could definately see being p/r and using barrage. Yet, I would think just a regular paragon w/o barrage being more effective. Counting on most of the rest of the group being b/p you would just have to spam anthems, chants, and stuff. This way you could focus more of your attributes into the anthems and chants to make them more effective. It also doesnt help that. like anryla said, barragers should be spamming barrage and this would be difficult at best to do.

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i tried it, had difficulty hitting the multiple targets in the area i was at, to gain the adrenaline to use go for the eyes, and therefore pay for it

if you have mobs, then it will work tho, just tested at great temple of balthezar

it was not hard to spam barrage in topk .... in fact i could definitely go longer than regular bps cuz of energy bonus... and if you did not have barrage.. you would not be able to spam gfte as quickly for all the other bps who are spammin barrage... it is effective enough..and it worked for me.. im sure there is lots of variotions out there

I thought chants like Anthem of Flame only affected the arrow that connected first. As opposed to all 6 arrows.

Same with G4tE and other things that said "next attack" since unlike something like cyclone axe or triple chop, the numbers come up seperatly.

Second, orders works better. Since it is applied to each arrow and to each arrow of all subsequent arrows until it finishes, at which point it is renewed.

This thread wreaks of 'I had this idea, but I do not want to put any actualy effort into developing it, I just want to reap the rewards and credit later when someone actually does the work.'

The only good thing that has comeout of it is an actual discussion on the topic of Barrage rangers using Paragon shouts, which isn't especially unique.

A build of this type does not need to be primary ranger. The pros of a primary ranger are increased damage from barrage. That's all well and good, but the real advantage of barrage is the swarms of adren you gain from it, to spam GftE, which is the point.

This is probabably something that a Ranger or Paragon hero should be using, not a player, but to each their own.

oh for sure claw, if you can hit the targets, it works well

a para/ranger should be about as useful to the group as a normal ranger, and you can take along a orders guy too

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Infuriating_Heat this would seriously help spamming

well IH is an expertise (ranger) elite so you would be total support and no damage... well..at least no barrage...but your right... great skill... used it on my heroes the whole way through NF ..


I think its obvious that you can use either p/r or r/p depending on if you want more damage or more support.



i just let you guys know what worked for me in topk... in my opinion one ranger doing more damage is not as good as one paragon making the entire team do more damage...(anthem of envy is also excellent) if my calculations are correct you would cause all barragers with max marksmanship to do 37.51 damage per arrow if both "anthem of envy" and "go for the eyes" trigger..also having"find their weaknesses" (will not trigger on every arrow but still) will cause deep wound which is effectively about 120hp damage to foes in TOPK ....so this in addition to the orders and spirits... it will dish out a lot while still being an effective BP pet and all...

and thats at only 14 command which is impossible for a ranger.

another excellent skill for paras is burning refrain (leadership) which gives constant burning if it triggers properly. and you could throw in their on fire (leadership) for extra protection


again... im only saying what works for me. good luck to all and please dont hate on paras in Tombs...

and yes this first post is flame bait... i was just so excited seeing barrage para on the subject line i didnt read through it all..

just cuz you say p/r doesnt mean your original or responsible for any build that comes from this thread... i shoulda posted this in its own thread...my fault. i would not mind if this was closed

Yay! Someone's anticipated the need for a Barrage-like skill for Paragons, nevermind the fact that you've had to actually use Barrage

The P/R R/P discussion makes clear that spear chucking is as lame as channeling for rits. I've hinted in another thread what the Paragon really needs, and I'm glad people are starting to see and experiment with exactly the same skill combo's I've mentioned previously.

However, it's not enough to save the Paragon from being a Mr 2 percent.

It works. I posted this under a Tombs BP farming group thread as well because it is particuarly relevant to them. In this build keep in mind your job is NOT to do damage with your barrage. Every arrow in your barrage that makes contact gives you adrenaline and therefore you can cast GFTE and Anthem of Envy and make the damage dealers in your party spike like crazy. This works extremely well for BP farming groups because all of their damage meets the "requirements" for the chants. I was able to keep Envy up constantly (with literally little to no breaks) and GFTE was spammed every third barrage or so. When you have 5 people Barraging with the boosts this gives, the damage is pretty ridiculous.

You have to remember that a Paragon does not do a whole lot of damage even with a spear. There greatest ability is making the party better and this build maxes that out more than any other I have tried.

The BP Paragon Build:

I was using a Feathered Longbow with various mods on it.

12 Leadership + 1 Minor Rune (necessary for energy regen)
12 command + 3 Sup Rune
3 Marksmanship

Skills (Descriptions are stats based on above attribute levels)
Barrage
Make Your Time (+1 adrenaline for each party member in earshot. Max 4)
Anthem of Envy (10 sec. - +20 Damage vs enemies ^50% HP)
Find Their Weakness (combined with GFTE, gives you deep wound)
Go For The Eyes (all party members get 75% chance to crit on next attack)
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Never Surrender (could also be res sig) (10 sec of +5 HP regen for all party members below 75% HP)

First it is important to mention that your Barrage is not there to do damage but to give you very fast adrenaline boosts. Combined with Make your time, you can keep GFTE and Anthem of Envy charged almost constantly. Because these are both adrenaline skills, when you cast them, the Leadership rank (and the surrounding party members) replenish your energy instantly. You create a type of feed back loop that is sustainable for quite some time.

I have found the pet to get in the way a little because when it dies your adrenaline goes down to 0 and all your skills go through the standard recharge. It is also sometimes hard to fit in the 10 energy charm animal skill (with no energy boost or adrenaline benefit), but it works out fine.

I was puller for my group which makes good sense for two reasons, Paragons have a higher Armor Rating than Rangers and take a sudden spike better and, more importantly, you can start by casting Make your Time and GFTE charges instantly (I don't cast it yet though). One barrage on your first pull is good enought to get envy up to full. I cast that giving all barrages +20 damage for the next 10 seconds. Then I barrage to get GFTE up to full again and then cast that. Then barrage my adrenaline up for those two skills until Make your time is charged again.

Never Surrender is just handy to help the monk when needed and keep you alive when you are pulling and the monk is a little slow to the healing after the initial spike.

BTW, I have not tried to see if Find Their Weakness followed by GFTE followed by Barrage creates deep wound on multiple targets....

Barrage with no Pet:
If I were to change this out of a BP build I would add back in my other two favorite skills in place of Charm and Comfort animal:

Fall Back (helps healing between aggros and moves things along faster, or for quick get a ways) and Song of Power (boosts the party energy level. Its like a small BR for the entire party. Of course, it helps if they know that the energy boost stops if they use a skill).

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Okay so I tested this build with an even better BP group today in the tombs and had some enlightening results. Here is some of the new info, the good and the bad:

Good:
GFTE descripition says that it gives and additional chance to critical hit. If you combine this with the other rangers marksmanship, I am pretty sure you are at 100% of the arrows doing crit damage. I found this to be VERY effective. There was a point in the third tomb where we drew A LOT of aggro and someone said, "Get ready to run!" But when you have 4 or more enemies clumped up, one barrage recharges GFTE instantly. I was able to spam it for EVERY barrage that went out and the ownage was evident. This was enough aggro that it would've normally killed most of a regular BP group on most occasions. I must note that this build works best in BP groups but any group that does a significant amout of physical damage would benefit. I'm not sure how you could test to see if this was having effects on the minions or not.

The Luke Warm:
I believe that Find Their Weakness + GFTE + barrage only gives deep wound to the enemy you targeted with your barrage. This is by no means conclusive but I think thats what I was seeing in the last run. In any case, it is very helpful when dealing with the worms in Tombs. I am alos sure this would be great vs bosses in other parts of the game.

The Bad
Apparently Barrage removes Anthem of Envy even though it is a Chant and NOT a preparation. I will be following up on this in the Sardelac Sanctum and see if i can get developer reaction to this. They either need to fix that or if it was intentional, then they need to change Barrage's description to include Chants being removed. In either case, Shouts are not removed by barrage but I could not find an appropriate replacement for Envy - it would need to be an adrenaline skill to maintain the energy balance. It was having some effect as I noticed it did help - perhaps through the minions or those people not using barrage at that moment. In any case, if you were using this in a mixed PvE group Envy would still be very important. It is only in barrage groups where it becomes questionable.

in answer to above post. deep wound will trigger on only the first target that gets a critical when find their weakness triggers. the target of barrage will usually get it. but still..as I said earlier...how else would arrows cause DW which is the best condition in the game in my opinion... effectivly 120hp damage if the target has 600hp... so your target mobs will dissapear quicker. even if its one at a time..

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