+5 energy Spears: A caster's new friend?

Jeff Highwind

Jeff Highwind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Grenth's Rejects [GR]

R/Mo

I know this sounds somewhat (hell, extremely) odd, but I've been contemplating this idea ever since I got that Firey Sunspear of Shelter from the Nightfall bonus. I've noticed that most casters have been demanding a one-handed weapon with the +5 energy mod for some time in Kaineng. After using the bonus spear with my Ele during the PvE event, I've noticed some potential perks that the mages would enjoy.

Keep in mind that this is all just ideas I have thought up on the fly. If you have done extensive research that outdoes mine, feel free to post it as well.

1. Prefix/suffix perks.
This is just somthing minor I thought of but figured it may be useful. Basically you get access to mods like Shelter, Enchanting and Fortitude while getting the offhand benefits as well (Greens especially with the +1 attribute). Though in the end the combined +5 from the spear and the +12 from the offhand only equates to a 2~7 energy difference (Depending on mods on the staff), This theory leads to my next potential benefit...

2. The Zealous mod.
The one mod that staff/wand users don't benefit from at all. Spears (from what I remember) have access to the zealous mod and this can provide some potentially great energy management when your energy runs low. The only problem is that before spears came around, the zealous mod was useless since sword/axe weapons required you to melee to make use of the zealous mod. Spears though, they work like a one-handed shorbow so you can abuse the zealous mod if energy denial or recharge on spells give you downtime.

3. Range
I mentioned this in the zealous mod but I thought it might be worth mentioning again. Attacking with a spear gives you the benefit of range. While it may not seem like much, you can utilize this for pulling under the right height conditions and still stay safely behind your tank wall.

There may be more benefits to this, but I haven't done much research on the idea. Any thoughts/speculations?

The Fox

The Fox

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wouldn't a zealous short bow be superior since it has a faster attack speed? IMO unless your switching when you have absolutly zero energy you're not going to come out ahead since casters... cast all of the time or kite.

Zui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fox
Wouldn't a zealous short bow be superior since it has a faster attack speed? IMO unless your switching when you have absolutly zero energy you're not going to come out ahead since casters... cast all of the time or kite. If you're going to use it for energy gain... A Spear would be better. You see, short bows have a 2s refire rate, whereas spears take 1.5s between attacks. Both spears and shortbows have the same range.

Jeff Highwind

Jeff Highwind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Grenth's Rejects [GR]

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fox
Wouldn't a zealous short bow be superior since it has a faster attack speed? IMO unless your switching when you have absolutly zero energy you're not going to come out ahead since casters... cast all of the time or kite. I specified the Spear since you still get the benefit of your Offhand while using it to garner energy. Using a Shortbow you only get +5 energy and any pre/suffix mod, while with the Spear you get the +5e, Pre/suffix, and the 12e from the Offhand and any perks from that (HCT's, HRT's, HP, etc).

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

I believe that spears will replace swords/axes as the primary caster item of choice, because they at least allow the caster to attack from a distance.

If the transferrable inscription comes to pass, the most sought after caster weapon will likely be a no requirement 7-10 damage (or the like) white spear with a +5 energy mod attached to it.

Jeff Highwind

Jeff Highwind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Grenth's Rejects [GR]

R/Mo

Can a spear like that have the max energy mod though? I am not quite clear on the new salvage thing that's going on.

And I did well over 20 damage with the Firey Sunspear of Shelter, so that may be a common option.

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

The current answer is no - a no requirement item cannot have a max modifier.

However, if the speculated changes occur, you will be able to transfer any inherent modifier to any weapon (other than probably greens, quest reward and collector items). So, the +5 energy modifier would be salvagable and you could apply it to any spear.

Effigy

Effigy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Illinois, US

Heroes of Talia [HoT]

Mo/

While casters would be able to "wand" targets while also getting the benefits from weapon mods, most will not have points to spend in the spear skill so the damage done would be minimal.

I suppose you could throw spears at enemies in PvP as a chaff for Displacement and RoF, but the damage would be inconsequential. You'd still need a wand linked to one of your attributes if you wanted to do damage.

Master Fuhon

Master Fuhon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

Some caster builds can take advantage of the inherent +5 or -5 energy mods on spears, as well as the ability to fit an enchantment length increasing or fortitude mod.

Adrenaline based caster builds are probably not going to become more common any time soon, but I occasionally see "Bonettis Defense" on healing monks with adrenaline built up from sword attacks and taking damage (spear should work better). Lyric of Zeal (Paragon Motivation chant) apparently doesn't require much of an investment in Motivation to get some energy from using signets, Signet of Devotion/Boon Signet/Signet of Rejuvenation. Doesn't make putting points in Spear Mastery worthwhile though...

Obviously, wanding with a specced attribute would be the best method for adrenaline gain for a caster. I don't know about the timing with wanding right now if you are a warrior. But for builds with Order of Pain/Vampire that require physical damage, spear throwing will be better than wanding.

Etrik

Etrik

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Romania

None atm

Mo/

This isn't odd, it's old mate. Alot of people have been using a combo similar to the following for PvP: [Random non-vamp/zealous prefix] Sword/Axe of Enchanting/Fort+30 and a 20/20 off-hand.

That way you get the perks of an Insightful 20/20 Staff of Fort, but you get 2 extra energy. You do, however, lack the (moderately low, but still some) damage output of your staff, sine you'll generally do 0-2 damage with the sword/axe as a caster.

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

+5 Energy spears do exist....

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10045067

Looks like the HoD sword and other +5 energy swords are now obsolete. I personally will be interested to see how the inscription thing pans out...if so, I got a lot of white farming to do.

Effigy

Effigy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Illinois, US

Heroes of Talia [HoT]

Mo/

The spear does have some advantages over a sword/axe on a caster, but those advantages seem so minimal that I'm not sure if it really matters which you choose. In PvP, you could use spear attacks to wear down Displacement faster, but that already dies very quickly; you could also use it as chaff for RoF, but the likelihood of RoF being triggered by your spear rather than some other damage isn't that high. Since most casters will not spec Spear Mastery, you will still need a wand swap if you want to deal any damage.

The only major advantage of the spear is charging adrenal skills. I can see this being useful on a **/P or the occasional **/W, but otherwise I'd say just go for the skin you like best. I'll probably get +5e/-5e spears for my monk in case I want to tinker with a Mo/P build though.

deathy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

GUYS

E/

The answer is yes. Even if its only slighter better than an axe/sword, its still better, so especially for pvp characters, why put yourself at an disadvantage?

dansamy

Chasing Dragons

Join Date: May 2005

Lost in La-La Land

LFGuild

Mo/Me

I will definitely be switching to a spear. I might even sell my near perfect Gothic Dual Axe (*gasp*). (It's a 14%/-5e that I got for free from a chest. Yay me!)

Zui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansamy
I will definitely be switching to a spear. I might even sell my near perfect Gothic Dual Axe (*gasp*). (It's a 14%/-5e that I got for free from a chest. Yay me!) I'm curious, why are you going to use a Spear over an Axe? The energy gain from a Zealous version is probably not a great deal, all things considered. The minimal damage you could do is not really that much, either. What am I missing that makes a +5 or -5 spear better than a sword or axe equivilent?

Amity and Truth

Amity and Truth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/N

Attack from distance.
Your no damage spear could hit that reversal of fortune which would else have triggered on something more powerful.

Jeff Highwind

Jeff Highwind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Grenth's Rejects [GR]

R/Mo

Yea I mentioned range on the first post.

dansamy

Chasing Dragons

Join Date: May 2005

Lost in La-La Land

LFGuild

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zui
I'm curious, why are you going to use a Spear over an Axe? The energy gain from a Zealous version is probably not a great deal, all things considered. The minimal damage you could do is not really that much, either. What am I missing that makes a +5 or -5 spear better than a sword or axe equivilent? Two reasons: ranged attack and my +5e spear is free. (Preorder item) Since I perfer to have them match (yes, I know), I'll switch to a spear for my -5e as well.

Caelus The Fallen

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Glasgow

Voice of the Darkness

E/Mo

A spear can also potentially be used to interupt traps, which is nice. Maybe not much, but every little thing helps.

Thom Bangalter

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

MO

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelus The Fallen
A spear can also potentially be used to interupt traps, which is nice. Maybe not much, but every little thing helps. this, along with spearing archers, and hitting reversal of fortunes that trigger for next to nothing, are why my ele is getting a spear.

Unless they start making wands with +5 energy always 20% enchanting bonus or health +30 bonus, Wands are never going to see much love, unless you're going for a double recharge bonus on something (inspiration, water magic).

Effigy

Effigy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Illinois, US

Heroes of Talia [HoT]

Mo/

Interrupting traps is probably the most beneficial use of a spear over axe/sword. I can see spears being used more on mesmers and eles, but for monks I doubt they'll have enough free time to be worrying about "spearing" enemies. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it happening too much.

Deathy has a point, the spear is technically better. I expect most serious PvPers will switch from sword/axe to spear basically on principle.

Jeff Highwind

Jeff Highwind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Grenth's Rejects [GR]

R/Mo

Man if it's possible to mod the free items from the prerelease pack then I am set for my +5e spear.

Skuld

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

Swords are pretty! My tiny monk does not suit a 6 foot spear lol

Thom Bangalter

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

MO

E/Mo

swords are indeed pretty, and if you really need to wand something, weaponswap. a monk and I almost killed an assassin during vod today, it was pretty funny.

On topic though, if they have a +5 energy spear enchantments last 20% green, I am so going to farm that.

Shalban

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

in the preview event the pvp monk i made was holding the spear from the hip (while the paragon was holding it above the sholder) needless to say how weird it looked and how ugly it was. so unless my monk learns to hold a spear or they make some sort of skin that will look that way im gonna stick to the sword.

jadephoenix

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2006

a spear with +5e and 20% enchantments shure would be great, but it doesn't suit a caster. energy swords for the win. =D

Jeff Highwind

Jeff Highwind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Grenth's Rejects [GR]

R/Mo

What's your reasoning behind that? The only functional difference is that you can get Short Bow distance from the spear.

Akane

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

E/Mo

As a totem axe weilding healer - a melee weapon will bring my squishy hide far closer to the action than desirable. A spear lets me chuck from a distance and still get the +5 enchants with 20% enchants mod.

As a 55 or 600 down in UW, that's a different story. A melee weapon is beneficial to trigger the Riposte on the bladed aatxes once they've been hexed with SS.

The Great Al

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

ALOA

E/Me

i never understand why you would rather go with a +5 energy than a 20/20, 20/20, at least for an elementalist.

Ensign

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

If you want to wand someone, pull out a wand. You do have a wand equipped somewhere right?

Peace,
-CxE

Jeff Highwind

Jeff Highwind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Grenth's Rejects [GR]

R/Mo

Though Staves might, I don't think wands can hold a +20% enchant mod.

Minus Sign

Minus Sign

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/N

Speaking mostly as a monk castor, Zealous mods are not the energy manager they first appear to be.

In PvP there are a lot of kiting characters, translating into a lot dodged/strayed/missed shots that will cut down on the energy gain over time. Factoring in Guradian and other evasion buffs, and the -1 regen for castors will quickly see an end to the debate.

Zealous works for characters geared to use the weapon for max effect. Even a ranged Zealous weapon isn't going to provide much use if you don't have IAS to boost your attacks, "seeking arrows" type skills that guarantee hits, etc.

So what looks good on paper may be bad in practice. I'm sure people will be taking spears in the future, but they won't be replacing wands as your ranged weapon unless you're */P and set to use spear mastery.

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Yea, I could see spears playing a big role with casters since you get the +5e and also if you put a icy prefix on it, you can help interrupt with spinal shivers, etc. And getting rid of displacement with it could also be really helpful, and having that extra 2 damage always helps =). It adds up, and don't tell me 2 health means nothing when there are people willing to pay 40k for a +30 mod and only 700g for a +28 mod.

Thom Bangalter

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

MO

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
If you want to wand someone, pull out a wand. You do have a wand equipped somewhere right?

Peace,
-CxE Nope. Staff. It's in slot 4. And regardless, +5 energy spears are basically eliminating the drawback of using a sword, by allowing you to still be able to "wand" things. I'll only switch over if there's a +5 energy 20% spear that's easily farmable, otherwise I'll weaponswap.

Jeff Highwind

Jeff Highwind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Grenth's Rejects [GR]

R/Mo

I might need to invest in a 20% enchant wrap for the spear along with a icy mod for the Spinal Shiver comment.

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

I can't wait for a zealous +5 energy spear for my ele. Of course, I won't have it equiped at all time, I would just switch to it to regen to a point in a more needy time. That 1 regen pip is still nice when I can't attack at all.

Maxiemonster

Maxiemonster

There is no spoon.

Join Date: Jun 2005

Netherlands

Mo/

I might get a -5 energy spear, but I don't use a +5 energy sword/axe (I use the +5 armor sword), and the chance of you hitting a reversal while being in your -energy set is rather small, so it's not my first priority

Oh, and Zealous isn't worth it. First of all, most monks are at the backline, and even if you're not, half you're time you're casting or kiting, and half the time your attacks will miss. The Zealous might work out for you, but it didn't quite work for me.

Warskull

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2005

[out]

The ranged attack is pretty big. Zealous spears aren't a good idea for casters.

Uses for ranged attack:
Wanding down displacement
Wanding trappers
Wanding RoF off a target
Wanding targets with distortion to make them run out of energy

It saves you from swapping to a wand. However you likely still want a staff or wand of some sort to wand NPCs in GvG. You can wand down those archers while you wait to get in if they thief died.