Will Monks be forced into early retirement? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

26 Sep 2006 at 11:14 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Highwind

My Dunkoro hero loves to tank. No freaking clue why.

Heh - I know what you mean! I made my Dunkoro a Mo/Rt...and gave him a communing build! That kept him out of the way at the back spamming spirits to his heart's content!

I intend to start a Monk in Nightfall, because I have never played one before...and frankly, if people don't want me because they'd prefer to play with "Dunkoro the Noob" then fine...

a) that's what alliance members are for
b) I have my own heroes..
c) there are always the ever-noobish henchies!

so..."meh"

Also, has anyone notices the way that Dervish hero actively went off to aggro stuff? Several times we were stood, miles away from enemies, and she sneaks off, aggros some, and runs back. If she's still in the real game and still as noobish I'm making her a D/N with Vampiric Touch and she can heal herself if she's that stupid.

FalconDance

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

...deep within the sylvan splendor...

Order of the Migrating Coconuts [ALBA]

26 Sep 2006 at 13:11 - 42

Pfft, Vilaptca. I have played a monk all the way through Prophecies (and 'retired'), got another one in the Maguuma and yet another just started in Cantha. I'd like to think I know a little bit about playing a monk, healer or Smiter, in PvE. (No, guys, I'm not one of the 'noob' healers.)

The Hero monk SUCKS. His AI is way off. In fact, I did not think it was possible for a hench (and that's basically what the heros are) healer to be any worse than Alesia although Sister Tai runs a close second. Well, this Dunkoro darned near trumps Alesia for Advanced Idiocy. I set him for full heal, tried to trigger the skills manually, even. He insisted on aggro'ing (even while set in Passive mode), spammed whichever skill the AI randomly chose (yes, I watched this with interested confusion), and pretty much spent the game taking dirt naps.

I've had the extreme good fortune to be partied with excellent healers and the misfortune of omg-bad healers, but unless something changes drastically with ol' Dunkie's AI, he will NOT be joining me on any adventures in NF.

Lex Talionis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

in the real world away from virtual idiots

Wtf Is Guildwars [Duno]

26 Sep 2006 at 13:43 - 43

First monk hero Dunkoro is just like Alesia with specific picked out skills. Since I have uas on both chapter 1 and 2 monk skills, I decided to use them on Dunkoro. Now after giving him an 8 skill bar (res sig instead of some res spell) he seemed to only use about 4-5 skills including the res sig. To counter all of the degen with conjure phantasm and some other crap I ran into during the event, I gave him spell breaker. He randomly casts the skill on himself even while fighting warriors and rangers. Thankfully he knew how to use res sig

Dervish hero Melonni did quite good. Assuming you have unlocked a ton of dervish skills she uses them nicely. No problems with that one.

Koss is just great at what he does. I couldn't have asked for a better warrior henchman than him. Nuff said

The second monk hero wasn't too bad either though I didn't use her as much as Dunkoro with the skill testing and all.

I didn't get to test the rest of the henchman since it was 3 days only and I didn't have the time to sit and play 3 days straight. Conclusion is the monk hero's are imperfect (probably intentional as not to shut out monks played by real ppl). Monks won't be forced into early retirement I'm pretty sure of that

Nor will other professions, as we only played the early stage of the game. Hero henchman may not be so good later on. Lets not forget, real players are better than the henchman as they actually know when and how to use their skills.

FrogDevourer

on a GW break until C4

Join Date: Feb 2005

In your shadow

Servants of Fortuna

26 Sep 2006 at 13:53 - 44

I agree the hero AI is far from perfect, to say the least (*cough* RoF to counter degen *cough*). Unfortunately, it's also better than most PuG monks, especially if you give him and simple builds.

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

26 Sep 2006 at 13:55 - 45

My experience was that Dunkaro simply didn't know how to play as a monk. I gave him some monk builds that I had used with great success, but he simply didn't understand the concept of kiting when you are under pressure, nor did he understand the concept of healing himself. While he was good at maintaining Mantra of Recall when I gave him that, he almost never used healing breeze, even when all the pressure was on one target.

On the other hand, I gave Koss a Grenth's Balance adrenal build and he was pretty unstopable. I spent a lot of time with my Paragon just running with him to farm Sunspear Points.

Dixie Lady

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2006

Mississippi

Mo/Me

26 Sep 2006 at 13:59 - 46

Thanks guys, I feel better lol.
Good point about my monk hero having my elite monk skills but others will not have those in their hero.
You also gave me some ideas about how to play them but what does this mean
Mo/N passive orders necro
I know we can set them to passive, does this mean they do nothing unless we hit their skills?
My hero kept healing my minions and keeping his energy at almost zero. He did not have heal party etc.

prism2525

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Among dead bodies.

The Republic of Sky Pirates

E/

26 Sep 2006 at 14:19 - 47

Has anyone tried to make an Ether Prodigy ele hero? I wish I did, although probably she would just spam it and get killed.

I agree on the fact that we should be able to set some skill as "use only when told".

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

26 Sep 2006 at 14:23 - 48

My Dunkaro did great -- I did change his skill bar to use the elite Healing Light among other skills

for the Defend the Harbor "Challenge" quest with 6 waves of Skales
- I had 2 monk heros, Koss, myself (Derv), and some lvl 12 henchies

Dunkaro was doing much of the healing (other hero was Protection build)

admittadly,
I failed it the 1st time, when I didnt take Dunkaro

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

26 Sep 2006 at 14:33 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie Lady

With the advent of monk heroes (I had 2 monks for my necro), will 'real' monks no longer be needed?

That is my favorite class to play.

The Heros are still henches.

The only difference is you can personlise them.

That doesnt mean id rather trade one in for a human.

Given the choice id rather a human then any AI character.

Plus you have to worry about telling your hero what to do and where to go all the time.

Considering how much more effort that will add, im sure most would still use humans.

The only change will be the order of use in teams...

FIRST - HUMANS
SECOND(if no humans or no good humans) - HEROES
THIRD(last resort) - NORMAL HENCHES

...plus we dont even know whether they will add Heroes to the other games (doubtfull). We will still have a use for you in those islands.

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

26 Sep 2006 at 14:47 - 50

Quote:

posted by FalconDance
The Hero monk SUCKS. His AI is way off. In fact, I did not think it was possible for a hench (and that's basically what the heros are) healer to be any worse than Alesia although Sister Tai runs a close second. Well, this Dunkoro darned near trumps Alesia for Advanced Idiocy. I set him for full heal, tried to trigger the skills manually, even. He insisted on aggro'ing (even while set in Passive mode), spammed whichever skill the AI randomly chose (yes, I watched this with interested confusion), and pretty much spent the game taking dirt naps.

Maybe it was your build. My HERO Monks were so good I was overcome with Joy. For once my party could remain conditions free.

I do think MONK players will have an advantage in the game as they understand the limitations of the class better then the average Wammo / Leeroy Jenkins out there.

So if your HERO monk sucked, I would look at the build your useing. A HERO is only a reflection of the player who created it.

Xeeron

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

Strike Force

26 Sep 2006 at 14:48 - 51

Made Dunkaro prot right away, he was very fast with the heals and worked together well with a solo melee fighter (Koss).
Both hex and condition removal was a real problem, so I ended up giving him Empathic Removal, he enjoys to use the elite slot. When I had set him up as healing I found him to both burn energy to fast and not being able to survive (no kiting = needs to be prot).
All in all he was ok, but I'd take a non noob monk over him every day.

- Xeeron

bryann380

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

USA

Mo/

26 Sep 2006 at 14:54 - 52

My monk is already in semi-retirement anyway, as far as monking in missions and quests are concerned. She's currently an undead farmer, making money and saving up on decayed orr emblems for the Halloween and Wintersday events (got slightly over 1,300 so far).

Tuner89

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2006

The Fools of Soverignty [Fool]

E/

26 Sep 2006 at 14:58 - 53

I dont think any one will have to retire. IF anything, this will HELP Monks, while I was playing the preview event, I was amazed at how easily I could complete quests and missions with my heroes and I alone. Monks, although needed for missions, have a very hard time doing quests. Henchmen suck, and thats the bottom line. But Heroes give Monks a chance to complete quests without waiting for a group.

Ole Man Bourbon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta

GONG

W/E

26 Sep 2006 at 15:19 - 54

I'm a big believer in Hench monks. In missions that don't require some "trick," you'll find that Hench monks are almost always better than PUG monks.

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

26 Sep 2006 at 15:22 - 55

I group with strangers but...

Heroes/Henchies wont AFK or Quit or LinkDead on you

martialis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

RA, reporting you

26 Sep 2006 at 15:59 - 56

Just for reference, here is Sister Tai - http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Sister_Tai
here is Mhenlo - http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Mhenlo
and here is Seaguard Gita - http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Seaguard_Gita

So those are their skills sets - some very good and some not so much. And all the Tyrian and Canthan henchies use basically those skill sets. Any healer hero won't be significantly better than Sister Tai, so this won't change anything. Much more important than the healing output is the ability of other heroes to multiclass and to tank. Otherwise, they're just henchies with runes.

Darksun

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

USA

Karr's Castle

W/E

26 Sep 2006 at 16:53 - 57

Man, I can only hope so. Getting a monk in a party is so frustrating. I've heard many say that just go to towns and afk just to make people mad. I'm sick of waiting for monks.
As for Assasins, most people play them SO wrong that they may never have a respectable place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by martialis

So those are their skills sets - some very good and some not so much. And all the Tyrian and Canthan henchies use basically those skill sets. Any healer hero won't be significantly better than Sister Tai, so this won't change anything.

I disagree, you can position Heros, force them to cast specific spells, specify all thier spells, give them great items & runes etc.. It's WAY more than just a set of spells.

Quote:

I agree on the fact that we should be able to set some skill as "use only when told".

Wonderful Idea!

If any of you are having trouble with Dunkaro tanking, try setting a waypoint far away from the enemy BEFORE you engage them. The time I had the most effective Dunkaro was when he was at his max staff range still being able to attack & heal, but not encountering the enemy.

JoeKnowMo

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2005

Wessst Siiide, USA

Mo/

26 Sep 2006 at 17:16 - 58

The hero system makes it so all classes can now get through the pve side of things with much less trouble. I expect that most people will go with 2 players and 3 heroes each to fill out a team. It reduces the reliance on every class: monks, wammos, and everyone else.

I think I'm going to enjoy pairing up with one other player and then going over our skill bars for our heroes. Noobishness or rushed attitudes will show up fairly early and I can realize I need to find someone else sooner.

Seems like the lfg messages will get weird: "Interrupt ranger w BL monk, touch ranger, and command paragon, lf war w Boon prot monk, Wounding Derv, and motivation paragon."

Stemnin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Mo/Me

26 Sep 2006 at 18:07 - 59

Now I can hench it all with my monk, war, rit, necro, muhahahah, no more pug's except when helping guildies/alliance. Unless I start getting lonely.. /hugmyself

gabrial heart

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Las Vegas

Beautiful Peoples Club [LIPO]

Mo/Me

26 Sep 2006 at 18:34 - 60

The hench AI is still no where near as good as an experienced player. Skill combos and player placement is still horrible on auto. I honestly dont think micro-managing hero hench is going to help out the casual player alot. As a matter of fact it will make it far more difficult to play your character, a hero or 3 and use all the skills effectively enough. So, yes most people will still have hero ele's that use glyph of renewal for fireball or flare instead of met shower or healer heros that use up all their e and cast aegis when they get the 15e against non-melee damage groups. I totally don't want *good* hench, it defeats the purpose of having an online game to begin with. I do have to say though, it's nice to have an ele hench with met shower instead of fire storm, wheeeeee!

Henchman

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

A cave in the Shiverpeaks

Mo/

26 Sep 2006 at 19:03 - 61

I dont think that real monks will be replaced.
I do, however, think that real Mesmers and any other interrupt build will be replaced. The AI can interrupt better than any human player can, since it knows exactly when you used the skill. Even Koss did a great job interrupting as a warrior.
If you're not sure what I mean, try casting orison of healing (which has 3/4 sec cast time), in front of a wind rider and see if it will actually be resolved.
No human player can interrupt that.

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

26 Sep 2006 at 19:19 - 62

Um... no. Dunkaro's reflexes might be godly and you can give him a good bar, but he's still Aleisa on the battlefield. Tanking, aimlessly running around, casting imagined burden that he inspired every time. Thank god that unlike pug monks, he doesn't scream "OMG BR BR BR" when he wastes his energy like an idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman

If you're not sure what I mean, try casting orison of healing (which has 3/4 sec cast time), in front of a wind rider and see if it will actually be resolved.
No human player can interrupt that.

Orison is 1-second cast and I've seen good mesmers reliably interrupt 3/4 cast spells.

Sure, henches are better at pure reflexes, but overall even a mesmer hero won't replace a skilled mesmer. Because unless a hero's bar is loaded with 7 interrupts and a res sig, he'll find something else to cast instead of camping a target. Not to mention that he can't actually camp a target...

SA_DEMON

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

South Africa

Royal Knights Of Camelot {HOLY}

26 Sep 2006 at 19:29 - 63

As i see it the Heroes are ment for the casual gamer like me. When i am up playing the game there are no players to do the missions with and the henchies are not all that great as alot have said. But at least with the heroes i can make sure they are setup for specific occasions. And to be fair this was a preview event not all the features are going to be 100% ready. But after 16 months of playing this game its a feature i am pleased to have.

Gigashadow

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Bellevue, WA

W/

26 Sep 2006 at 19:33 - 64

I'm wondering if this will make the game less social than before. True, PUGs are terrible, and I generally prefer to hench things -- but sometimes I PUG things just for the social or amusement factor.

A PUG will now commonly be 2 people and their combined 6 heroes (since everyone wants to level up their heroes). Although the total number of people PUGing will be the same, you will only get to meet one other person on that mission or quest. Also, if he's a bad player, you are quadruply screwed, because his heroes will likely be set up even worse.

Kit Engel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Lords of the Sacred Chao

E/Me

26 Sep 2006 at 19:44 - 65

Dunkoro seemed to work really well for me. I just gave him Word of Healing, Orison of Healing, Healing Seed, Vigorous Spirit (He's good at keeping this up on physical attackers in the party!), Mend Ailment, Remove Hex, Inspired Hex, and Ressurection Chant.

Paired with Koss, who I setup with a sword and gave Emphatic Removal, my party had no problem with any of the quests or missions at all...

TadaceAce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

26 Sep 2006 at 19:58 - 66

The same reflexes that apply to interupting apply to monks as well. No human player can heal a spike like the henchmen can. It all comes down to the build. If the best monk builds can be played correctly by the hero then player monks are out of business. Fortunately for players the monk AI is not very good at this point. Still I'd take my modified built hero over any pug monk unless hes in iQ and is personal friends with Ima Paladin and can tell me who Hulk Hogan is.

Also keep in mind the power of leech sig and power drain on the monk heroes... this more than makes up for their incorrect useage of say mantra of recall.

Narayanese

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

26 Sep 2006 at 20:41 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

Has anyone tried to make an Ether Prodigy ele hero? I wish I did, although probably she would just spam it and get killed.

I agree on the fact that we should be able to set some skill as "use only when told".

I tried Ether Prodidge+Heal Party, the ele hero used both skills well.
He always cast Ether Prodidgy when he had 5 energy left, and I saw Heal Party getting used when 5 ppl were in need of healing.

The monk hero though wasn't very good... if I gave him orison he'd use nothing else, he refuses to use healing light, self heals with ethereal light while under attack, heals koss with healing touch etc, and doesn't have a clue how to use mesmer skills.

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

26 Sep 2006 at 21:04 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

I'm wondering if this will make the game less social than before. True, PUGs are terrible, and I generally prefer to hench things -- but sometimes I PUG things just for the social or amusement factor.

I highly doubt that people who used henchies before will automagically stop using heroes either.

If anything, For those people who don't know how to customize their heroes correctly will always be dependent on PUGs.

Besides, I'll take Guildies over anything anyday. When they aren't available then Heroes are the next choice.

Guildies>Heroes>Henchies>PUGs

Fluffyx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Courtney PantsuLand

Death By Teazu [TEA]

W/Mo

26 Sep 2006 at 21:22 - 69

After playing through the entire WPE with the hero monks I can without a doubt say that if they keep their level of skill they will be almost useless. The henchie monks were a better choice, even with my own builds they couldn't run them at all. At first me and my partner thought it was that we didn't set the attributes and skills, we changed it and they were still below par. Unless they get a huge improvement they will not be worth much as monks.

Lord Aro

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

/wiki user:aro

DBU

E/

26 Sep 2006 at 21:38 - 70

Dunkoro did an interesting job as a spirit user, though it wasn't too great. He did love to run off aggroing stuff as a smiter, SoJ was really funny. He seemed fine with a low cost heal build, Dwayna's Kiss worked wonders while testing the Dervish. Hardest part was balancing skills at such a low level.

Koss... I hated him. Gave him Disrupting Chop, Triple Chop, [two other axe skills], Watch Yourself, Live Vicariously (also dropped it depending), Vig Spirit, Rebirth/other rez. He was nigh unstopable. Found he didn't use Cyclone Axe well. Tried a Succor build that worked and Holy Wrath was ok. He was so much better than my P and D test chars. He would normally use Live Vicariously on my Devish, guess that would provide the best healing return. He made a decent tank/stance user.

They also made entertaining MM's. Any skill you've unlocked made them overpowered at the start. Sadly I didn't get too much time to test both types, the preview was extended to a time that didn't help.

All in all, they replace most pugs, not competent human players. Would be nice to have the option to make a lvl 20 at the start to actually give a real test on the characters instead of the easy starting area.

Minus Sign

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/N

26 Sep 2006 at 21:51 - 71

Well...lets think about this from (what will be) the new PuG PoV. Who has the best Drunkaro?

The warrior who never plays monk and has few skills unlocked? *headshake*

the Paragon who just bought Nightfall and has only started to cap skills? Mmmm...nah...

The Tyrian monk spamming "Blight monk with lvl 20 Drunky lfg!"?

I think this will boil down to a question of whose Drunkaro is better, not whether he can outdo the worst monks. Henchmen already own that title with a massive chasm between their usefulness and a good monk.

Good monks are always hard to find. They're hard to find because their teams survive easily and they breeze through the game more quickly. The same can be said for many professions, however.

Nightfall core characters are going to have a hard time. If you haven't unlocked all those uber skills already you're likely to be in trouble.

Off Topic: Drunkaro was excellent as a BLight, and a few other builds I tried. With proper energy management skills and a spammable Signet of Devotion (I still hate that PoS but BL is turning me around…) he was regularly healing my team with very few energy issues. Thanks to the flag system, pulling was equally easy with no hench agro problems. He did tank, but so do many human castors in pve. The difference between drunkaro and these players was—when I had time to deal with his indiscretions—he accepted orders quickly and started kiting.

In the end, I found it easier to set him up as a Mo/Me, prioritize channeling for his next spell, and let the idiot take damage, spam RoF/Gurdian to his heart's content, and do my thing.

I also never had a problem with him rezzing in combat. He never carried one

I know: that goes against everything most hardcore PvEers believe about playing this game. But facts are facts: I never had the infamous Alesia/Lina double-rez in the PvE beta.

Back on topic: will good monks have anything to fear from Drunky? Heck no. If anything, good monks will be more sought after because they will be bringing a solid 2 monk backline into every team they play. The definition of a "good" monk may begin to change, however. No longer do you need a good build that you can use. You'll need to know AI weaknesses and create builds that turn them into strengths.

gwhobo

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

The Lost Saracens

R/Mo

26 Sep 2006 at 22:10 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinborn

Typical idiot > Hero > Experienced Monk.

Just an fyi, reverse the >'s to <'s because of the way you made it it looks like Typical idiot is better than hero and hero better than Experienced Monk
Secret I learned like 15 years ago in kinergarten, imagine the > & < as Alligator Mouths and they eat the bigger/better one.

Btw, I have NEVER Been Quoted!! I feel so left out

Minus Sign

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/N

26 Sep 2006 at 22:17 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwhobo

Btw, I have NEVER Been Quoted!! I feel so left out

Really? Never?

TadaceAce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

27 Sep 2006 at 01:43 - 74

Ok for those of you that don't wanna read four pages let me sum it up for you.

"ZOMG my monk hero won't breeze me when I am getting pressured, he is a bad monk!"

Yep hes a bad monk not because of his AI but because you wasted a skill slot with breeze.

Seriously people they aren't gonna use complex builds, give them say... holy haste, glimmer of light, orison, comforting, kiss, power drain, leech sig.... such a simple build and bam you have a monk that is, to say the least, comparable to ANY pve monk. By that he is also better than 99.9% of pve monks including those in your uber pve guild.

Vilaptca

Pre-Searing Vanquisher

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

27 Sep 2006 at 03:10 - 75

As far as I'm concerned, Dunkaro only sucks at being a Monk, because I suck at being a Monk. With the right equipment, the right build, he should outshine most PuG Monks.

Until October 27 when I have Nightfall and I'm running around with a couple heroes again, I can't be incredibly certain, but from the small small portion of the WPE, thats how I feel.

Heroes will save us all from future PuG failures. But no, they will never replace that guildie Monk who you've worked with on countless missions.

Dixie Lady

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2006

Mississippi

Mo/Me

27 Sep 2006 at 12:34 - 76

Can you actually use the hero's skills? I can't remember the details, but my monk was not removing hexes so I opened his skill bar and tried to use his skill but it didn't work.

edit: found my answer
Your Hero's AI determines when skills are used, but you can interrupt that routine by clicking on a skill on the Hero's small skill bar. By clicking on a skill, you prioritize that skill; you'll see a green check mark over that skill on the small skill bar. The Hero will not use any other skills until successfully using that skill. The Hero will attempt to use your target. You may also double-click on that skill to force the hero to execute it immediately.

ChaoticCoyote

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Florida, USA

Imperial Order of the Iguana [IGGY]

R/

27 Sep 2006 at 13:09 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

I'm wondering if this will make the game less social than before. True, PUGs are terrible, and I generally prefer to hench things -- but sometimes I PUG things just for the social or amusement factor.

A PUG will now commonly be 2 people and their combined 6 heroes (since everyone wants to level up their heroes). Although the total number of people PUGing will be the same, you will only get to meet one other person on that mission or quest. Also, if he's a bad player, you are quadruply screwed, because his heroes will likely be set up even worse.

The game will become less social. That was evident during the preview, when it was almost impossible to find *people* to play missions and quests. The Heroes are more than adequate for most tasks.

I don't think Guild Wars will continue to be a "cooperative" RPG, at least within the confines of Nightfall. Giving Heroes all unlocked skills simply makes them godly in the early game. People with existing characters (and thus resources) will buy top equipment and skills for their heroes, and use henchies for cannon fodder to fill out groups. No human interaction required, other than spamming "WTS" in outposts and cities.

Ole Man Bourbon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta

GONG

W/E

27 Sep 2006 at 13:33 - 78

However, you haven't seen how difficult, or tricky, the missions are yet.

Dixie Lady

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2006

Mississippi

Mo/Me

27 Sep 2006 at 13:37 - 79

Have you tried to find people lately in prophecies? It's almost impossible. I came to a standstill since the hench were not strong enough with my monk, and had to skip a whole section of quests. Sometimes I would find 2 or 3 ppl at the most.
I am having more sucess in the later missions but there are still not alot of ppl. I assume they are all in factions (I did Factions first).
In the future, Nightfall will be the same way after the next game comes out but at least those latecomers will have the options of heroes to help them out.

Effendi Westland

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Isle of the dead

[DVDF][LDS]

P/W

27 Sep 2006 at 14:54 - 80

Playing with hench is somewhat boring, I'll still be forming and joining pugs if friends and guildies are not available.

But for me nothing changed, henchies monks were always my choice over the pug monk lottery. Too much chance for a noob monk or a monk who tries to run the group (start your own groups if you want to dictate the party).