Forgive me if this has been posted before (nothing turned up on search) but after playing the Nightfall WPE it became apparent that there is a huge difference in quality between Factions and Nightfall. Its all well documented that there are 2 teams working on a expansion each getting a years worth of development but Factions without going into all the details is in my opinion poorly designed and sloppily executed, are we due a repeat with Chapter 4?
At the time of its release there where comments that people would buy only the odd numbered chapters and at the time I just laughed but Nightfall is such a drastic improvement in quality I'm starting to see sense in the idea. Now you might argue the Nightfall team had an extra 6 months but the overall design for Factions was clearly in place from the beginning and no amount of polish can change the fact that Factions is nothing more than pointless fedex quests and endless grind.
I suppose the time to jugde would be after we've played Chapter 4 and I hope the Factions team gets it right but if they don't will ArenaNet hold its hands up and do something about it? What I'm interested in is what peoples opinions are on the matter? I personally think a reshuffle of the teams is needed I'd even go as far as finding replacement personal for the Factions team. That may seem drastic but if ArenaNet want my money then a repeat of Factions is not the way to do it.
Chapter 4 a Factions repeat?
[KotL]Mjolnir
-Loki-
The teams working on it wouldn't have complete creative freedom over how the game would play. They would have a set goal for the campaign. It's not like the team that made Factions is going to make another campaign with a simple story and emphasised PvP, that was just the direction Arenanet and NCSoft wanted Factions to go.
Yanman.be
I think they learned from their mistakes, and they'll have 3 entire chapters they can look back to, so there will be little to no real bad features.
Ninna
I liked Factions - altho it will probably be the weakest of the 3 chapters
(for both PVP and PVE alike)
GuildWars is an evolving game
its too early to start predicting what Chapter 4 will be like
- Development Teams are not remote satellites, they are given goals to strive for
I think most chapters will be unique to their own
Chapter 3 (Nightfall) certainly has elements of both last chapters
- no skill quests, Faction (altho its pve), slower progress to 20, etc
(for both PVP and PVE alike)
GuildWars is an evolving game
its too early to start predicting what Chapter 4 will be like
- Development Teams are not remote satellites, they are given goals to strive for
I think most chapters will be unique to their own
Chapter 3 (Nightfall) certainly has elements of both last chapters
- no skill quests, Faction (altho its pve), slower progress to 20, etc
Queenie
I heard rumors that chapter 4 will be about Orr. >_>
And theirs no need to make another factions expansion pack.
And theirs no need to make another factions expansion pack.
warban
I have a feeling A.Net is going to stick with 3 main plot paths and start extending the story from the first 3 chapters next.
Chapters 1, 4, 7 follow lines from Orr
Chapters 2, 5, 8 follow lines from Factions
Chapters 3, 6, 9 follow lines from Nightfall.
Thats my guess.
Chapters 1, 4, 7 follow lines from Orr
Chapters 2, 5, 8 follow lines from Factions
Chapters 3, 6, 9 follow lines from Nightfall.
Thats my guess.
[KotL]Mjolnir
What I mean by a repeat of Factions is the overall quality of it not the story line. Also those who say its not the development teams fault heres something to think about, if you give a builder the designs to make a great mansion and he ends up making a block of flats whos in the wrong?
Mr_T_bot
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Originally Posted by Yanman.be
I think they learned from their mistakes, and they'll have 3 entire chapters they can look back to, so there will be little to no real bad features.
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zidane888
The real question is will you buy chap 6? I heard its gonna be a pile of junk, unlike chap 7 which is supposed to be dah bomb!!! 
Don't even get me started on chap 8!!!
Don't even get me started on chap 8!!!
Lady Lozza
I think a lot of people seem to forget that, barring Anet hiring people specifically for the Factions team, both teams initially worked on Prophecies. So it is not a Prophecies/Factions split but a Factions/Nightfall split. Furthermore, Anet will keep adding new things - see that skill interface 
wasn't it lovely? Things like this also make the game better, and improve our opinion of it.
I liked Factions, but I know a lot of people who didn't. You should stop thinking I'll buy the odd chapters, and start thinking, what does this next chapter add that I really want. Factions to be honest, added little in terms of new features. Not nothing, but not much either.
wasn't it lovely? Things like this also make the game better, and improve our opinion of it.I liked Factions, but I know a lot of people who didn't. You should stop thinking I'll buy the odd chapters, and start thinking, what does this next chapter add that I really want. Factions to be honest, added little in terms of new features. Not nothing, but not much either.
WasAGuest
We'll have to see when it comes out; but for speculations sake, in the Feb CGW interview it was stated that Anet had then learned that many players prefered to stick with and continue playing in the PvE side of things.
PvE has story, lore and is the game's actual content. Factions has little or almost none of the above as it was a massive lean towards PvP. We can look at all PvP games in other genres and see there that PvP games generally do not contain much content other than "spanking" another player... and that's what Factions prtty much is based on, or at least what it's major works and mini-games consist of. ABs, Competitive Missions and competing for score ala a poor attampt at an arcade like sports games (Challenge Missions) - which have no point at all other than score.
Knowing that Anet had learned this too late into Factions dev cycle would explain why it wasn't changed before release, and would also explain why Nightfall is appearing to be so well done.
This can bring some hope for all future chapters as long as Anet remembers that PvP players bring the content with the "competitive play" and PvE needs the content to keep the game alive. Thusly, all future chapters would need to be PvE based while keeping PvP interesting by adding in new play styles and areas for PvP. -- After all, GW is both a PvP game and a PvE game. So each needs to be kept up.
PvE has story, lore and is the game's actual content. Factions has little or almost none of the above as it was a massive lean towards PvP. We can look at all PvP games in other genres and see there that PvP games generally do not contain much content other than "spanking" another player... and that's what Factions prtty much is based on, or at least what it's major works and mini-games consist of. ABs, Competitive Missions and competing for score ala a poor attampt at an arcade like sports games (Challenge Missions) - which have no point at all other than score.
Knowing that Anet had learned this too late into Factions dev cycle would explain why it wasn't changed before release, and would also explain why Nightfall is appearing to be so well done.
This can bring some hope for all future chapters as long as Anet remembers that PvP players bring the content with the "competitive play" and PvE needs the content to keep the game alive. Thusly, all future chapters would need to be PvE based while keeping PvP interesting by adding in new play styles and areas for PvP. -- After all, GW is both a PvP game and a PvE game. So each needs to be kept up.
Paperfly
Heh, I wondered how long it'd take before this thread showed up.
For several months we've been hearing nothing but people gushing about the non-Factions team saving Guild Wars by infusing Nightfall with Prophecies awesomeness. I guess now we'll have eight months of people panicking because Chapter Four might have too many fed-ex quests in a crowded urban slum in which you're assaulted by exploding pusbags.
...As a huge Factions fan, I'm hoping the dev team doesn't get too intimidated by the message boards and is willing to take some chances when it comes to the development, as opposed to just throwing in a shopping list of player requests and calling it a campaign*. Chin up, guys!
*not a slur on Nightfall, I'm looking forward to that as much as anyone!
For several months we've been hearing nothing but people gushing about the non-Factions team saving Guild Wars by infusing Nightfall with Prophecies awesomeness. I guess now we'll have eight months of people panicking because Chapter Four might have too many fed-ex quests in a crowded urban slum in which you're assaulted by exploding pusbags.
...As a huge Factions fan, I'm hoping the dev team doesn't get too intimidated by the message boards and is willing to take some chances when it comes to the development, as opposed to just throwing in a shopping list of player requests and calling it a campaign*. Chin up, guys!
*not a slur on Nightfall, I'm looking forward to that as much as anyone!
Jetdoc
I really liked the change with Factions - if A-Net would have gone Prophecies ---> Nightfall, I bet many people would have gotten a bit burnt out by the game because of the slow progress.
Factions was a nice (fast) change of pace, and left people who loved Prophecies hungry for a return to the slow progress pace of the original game (which they'll get in Nightfall).
A good strategy by A-Net, IMO.
Factions was a nice (fast) change of pace, and left people who loved Prophecies hungry for a return to the slow progress pace of the original game (which they'll get in Nightfall).
A good strategy by A-Net, IMO.
Ninna
Quote:
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Originally Posted by [KotL]Mjolnir
those who say its not the development teams fault heres something to think about, if you give a builder the designs to make a great mansion and he ends up making a block of flats whos in the wrong?
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http://www.computerandvideogames.com....php?id=133721
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| Jeff Strain: One of our primary goals with Factions was to build stronger ties between the PvP and role-playing communities. Guild Wars offers a fantastic mission-based role-playing experience, and the design of our skill and character progression systems has resulted in a game that is very attractive to top PvP guilds, but we wanted to develop new mechanics that encouraged these two communities to interact. Specifically, we wanted to add value to guild membership for players who primarily play cooperative missions rather than PvP. |
Ive met many people that dont like to PVP and prefer PVE
- but they do like maps like Fort Aspenwood (I'm one of them)
Burn Butt
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Originally Posted by Paperfly
...As a huge Factions fan, I'm hoping the dev team doesn't get too intimidated by the message boards and is willing to take some chances when it comes to the development, as opposed to just throwing in a shopping list of player requests and calling it a campaign*. Chin up, guys!
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Shadowfrost
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Paperfly
For several months we've been hearing nothing but people gushing about the non-Factions team saving Guild Wars by infusing Nightfall with Prophecies awesomeness. I guess now we'll have eight months of people panicking because Chapter Four might have too many fed-ex quests in a crowded urban slum in which you're assaulted by exploding pusbags.
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Kook~NBK~
I won't speculate on the quality of chapter 4. I'll just check out the preview weekend(s) and base my decision whether to buy it or not. It's silly to assume that the devs who put together factions won't learn from the negative feedback they got about factions and put out another flop.
Think about it, one of the gripes that people had about leveling in Prophecies was that it was too slow, too much grind. In factions, the sentiment of many was that it was too fast. With Nightfall, the pace is set somewhere between the two, especially when players take advantage of those double XP dudes.
I don't see that there will be excessive "Fed-Ex" quests in any future chapters, but I don't see them going away completely, either.
Think about it, one of the gripes that people had about leveling in Prophecies was that it was too slow, too much grind. In factions, the sentiment of many was that it was too fast. With Nightfall, the pace is set somewhere between the two, especially when players take advantage of those double XP dudes.
I don't see that there will be excessive "Fed-Ex" quests in any future chapters, but I don't see them going away completely, either.
Inde
I've said this before, and I'll say it again We have no indication that the teams are leap-frogging while doing chapters. Everyone is assuming this but I have found no documentation, other then us being told that there are 2 development teams. I still am inclined to believe that there is a "development" team for future chapters and then a "maintenance" team if you will. Which means one team is continually in development and then they pass off the chapter to the other team.
But, like I mentioned, we have no indication of either and assuming that the teams are switching off isn't exactly reliable either.
We have no indication that the teams are leap-frogging while doing chapters. Everyone is assuming this but I have found no documentation, other then us being told that there are 2 development teams. I still am inclined to believe that there is a "development" team for future chapters and then a "maintenance" team if you will. Which means one team is continually in development and then they pass off the chapter to the other team. But, like I mentioned, we have no indication of either and assuming that the teams are switching off isn't exactly reliable either.
Arcueid13
Why are we worried about chapter 4 when so little details have been revealed. I mean, Nightfall is not even released!! I don't think by playing the game for 3 days would lead you to the conclusion that Nightfall is great. I've never played Factions so I don't know whether it's really as bad as some people say.
Fossa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ninna
Ive met many people that dont like to PVP and prefer PVE
- but they do like maps like Fort Aspenwood (I'm one of them) |
More Aspenwood-like maps,just dont include any reason to leech in them. Ruins the game totally.
Ninna
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Inde
Everyone is assuming this but I have found no documentation, other then us being told that there are 2 development teams. I still am inclined to believe that there is a "development" team for future chapters and then a "maintenance" team if you will. Which means one team is continually in development and then they pass off the chapter to the other team.
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- we know ANET has at least 3 teams
http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/toppers/?id=12786
Quote:
| We have two development teams working on a staggered release schedule, so we'll have a new campaign out every 6 months. We also have a 'Live' team which makes sure that content is constantly being added, often for holidays like Halloween and 'Winter's' day. |
dreamhunk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by [KotL]Mjolnir
Forgive me if this has been posted before (nothing turned up on search) but after playing the Nightfall WPE it became apparent that there is a huge difference in quality between Factions and Nightfall. Its all well documented that there are 2 teams working on a expansion each getting a years worth of development but Factions without going into all the details is in my opinion poorly designed and sloppily executed, are we due a repeat with Chapter 4?
At the time of its release there where comments that people would buy only the odd numbered chapters and at the time I just laughed but Nightfall is such a drastic improvement in quality I'm starting to see sense in the idea. Now you might argue the Nightfall team had an extra 6 months but the overall design for Factions was clearly in place from the beginning and no amount of polish can change the fact that Factions is nothing more than pointless fedex quests and endless grind. I suppose the time to jugde would be after we've played Chapter 4 and I hope the Factions team gets it right but if they don't will ArenaNet hold its hands up and do something about it? What I'm interested in is what peoples opinions are on the matter? I personally think a reshuffle of the teams is needed I'd even go as far as finding replacement personal for the Factions team. That may seem drastic but if ArenaNet want my money then a repeat of Factions is not the way to do it. |
LOL I am just glade they finaly listened. They are new company they are now heading in a good dirction.I have ideas how to fix pvp too,but i don't buy this game for pvp.
and the fact pvpers gave me a hard time not going to help.Seeing now anet hired jeff grubb a rpg, anet really can't go wrong. the only way they will go wrong is if the forced pvp on people agin. There are minor problems in this game too. like what do you give to players who play for hours and hours, it can't be gold. You get high prices for weapons.
If i was anet I would pick at jeffs mind for ideas LOL
any the other problem I see right is the amount of players anet has lost because of nerfs.any way soon these fourms will not even need me, But in the end my favous lines are " I told ya so"
=HT=Ingram
yes it is the factions team working on chapter 4 But I doubt it will be quite the same thing... Expect Sutle hints as to its plotline throughout Nightfall. But instinct tells me that Anet has seen that people were not too happy with the PvE Aspects of Factions, and very happy with the PvP aspects. Nightfall is a huge boost for the PvE part of the game. so expect chapter 4 to be a good combination of both... as that will attract the most people to it.
I keep expecting to see a city of villians type thing happy to GW soon. as in joining the charr or the mursatt for a campaign... But I think thats a ways away yet... it was just mentioned as a cool idea at one point in one of the chat logs but never progressed much beyond that as far as anyone knows.
I keep expecting to see a city of villians type thing happy to GW soon. as in joining the charr or the mursatt for a campaign... But I think thats a ways away yet... it was just mentioned as a cool idea at one point in one of the chat logs but never progressed much beyond that as far as anyone knows.
Mordakai
yes, if Anet continues to allow more choices in the gameplay, then playing the "bad guys" has huge potential.
As for Orr, if Nightfall is the "end of a trilogy", then won't Chapter 4 be something totally new, not connected to Tyria (the continent), Elonia or Cantha at all?
As for Orr, if Nightfall is the "end of a trilogy", then won't Chapter 4 be something totally new, not connected to Tyria (the continent), Elonia or Cantha at all?
Sir Skullcrasher
If all the new chapters has TWO new character, 300+ new skills, a new location with same type of storyline. Yeah, it would sucked! 
Inde
Owww... point for Ninna. Good find.
Indian
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Originally Posted by Sir Skullcrasher
If all the new chapters has TWO new character, 300+ new skills, a new location with same type of storyline. Yeah, it would sucked!
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Sir Skullcrasher
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Originally Posted by Indian
yeah, but what they can do is like, add only One more character for furthers chapters and huge continent. also a place where all chapters professions can gather to play. someinthg like that
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*end sarcasm*
Horseman Of War
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Originally Posted by Ninna
I liked Factions - altho it will probably be the weakest of the 3 chapters
(for both PVP and PVE alike) GuildWars is an evolving game its too early to start predicting what Chapter 4 will be like - Development Teams are not remote satellites, they are given goals to strive for I think most chapters will be unique to their own Chapter 3 (Nightfall) certainly has elements of both last chapters - no skill quests, Faction (altho its pve), slower progress to 20, etc |
Um, I got skills unlocked with quests in the preview. Only two of them, but it did happen.
Lynxius
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sir Skullcrasher
OMG.. let me be like Gwen in Chapter 4 and i'm so buying it!
*end sarcasm* |
Gwen rocks...
http://guildwars.tentonhammer.com/fi...c/20050321.jpg
^ the madness of Gwen
Anyways back on topic.
Chapter 4 a return to factions?
Ive had enough with locked gates, dirty poluted cities and blurry maps.
Anet doesnt want to go broke, so hopefully they wont do what the OP imagines they might.
Superdarth
I LOVE Factions actually..especially the story appeals to me,but why low in quality?Its no less then prophesies,unless you count the size,but its an EXPANSION not a Stand-Alone (Non-officially anyway)
Nightfal had such improvements because technology is racing right now..and im pretty sure the next expansion will be even better in quality..
Nightfal had such improvements because technology is racing right now..and im pretty sure the next expansion will be even better in quality..
Perth68
factions was fine, it was really short but I found I enjoyed the missions themselves alot more. I did like prophecies better, but factions is by no means bad and I would be perfectly fine if they kept the same philosophy intact for nightfall. Not that I think they will, and I also think that will be better for it. All in all factions largest downfall to me was the fact that no one really does what I want to do in the game ( specifically challenge missions and jade quarry).
I think Nightfall is going to be a lot of fun though. Didnt enjoy this preview as much as faction's preview but hopefully this will improve on release instead of get worse >.<
As for chapter 4 I think Anet wont go revisit any of its old lands yet (tyria, cantha or elona), they might go for something tropical-south american considering they like to do the whole culture themed expansions or maybe something a bit more magical. Id percieve them doing a world completely underground for chapter 4 before Id believe them pickng up one of the plot lines in one of the old continents.
But chapter 4 will be fine. I have full trust in anet to continue making great games, and no solid reason to doubt it yet.
I think Nightfall is going to be a lot of fun though. Didnt enjoy this preview as much as faction's preview but hopefully this will improve on release instead of get worse >.<
As for chapter 4 I think Anet wont go revisit any of its old lands yet (tyria, cantha or elona), they might go for something tropical-south american considering they like to do the whole culture themed expansions or maybe something a bit more magical. Id percieve them doing a world completely underground for chapter 4 before Id believe them pickng up one of the plot lines in one of the old continents.
But chapter 4 will be fine. I have full trust in anet to continue making great games, and no solid reason to doubt it yet.
Kakumei
I still don't get all the hate on Factions. I wouldn't be disappointed at all if Chapter 4 is a "Factions repeat"--I don't at all mind the idea of seesawing back and forth between PvE heavy and PvP heavy chapters.
Rathcail
If chapter 4 is made by the Factions folks, I'm looking forward to it.
I'm mostly a PvE'r and frankly Factions had more content for me than Prophecies. Getting fast to 20 is a good thing, so it won't be the numbers in my hero menu deciding how well I do, but instead my skill.
The long leveling parts in Prophecies was so boringly easy that I'm not counting pre Crystal Desert much of a content for myself.
I'm mostly a PvE'r and frankly Factions had more content for me than Prophecies. Getting fast to 20 is a good thing, so it won't be the numbers in my hero menu deciding how well I do, but instead my skill.
The long leveling parts in Prophecies was so boringly easy that I'm not counting pre Crystal Desert much of a content for myself.
Mordakai
I hated Factions simply because of the gates.
Seriously, less Gates and I would have enjoyed Factions much more.
As it is, at this moment my Warrior is actually back in Tyria capping Elites and finishing off the storyline I left to go do Factions.
Seriously, less Gates and I would have enjoyed Factions much more.
As it is, at this moment my Warrior is actually back in Tyria capping Elites and finishing off the storyline I left to go do Factions.
inscribed
My biggest gripe with Factions was the urban area. I absolutely hated having to go through the area. I've only taken two characters through the factions story, simply because I would lose the will to continue with other characters once I got halfway through the area. The maps were horribly useless and they packed as many enemies into tight corridors as possible and said it was suppose to be a challenge. The multiple heights of platforms and patrolling groups of mobs made it a nightmare to take a henchie team through the area. Not to mention every path and corridor looked alike, all equally bland.
Of course, theres also the matter of the locked gates preventing exploring and skipping ahead of areas you hated to go through, the lack of quests with skill rewards, the fact that every single city had a different selection of henchmen which made warping around with a henchie team a real pain, the missions that required you to get lucky and get matched up with a decent opposing team just to be able to beat, the design of Unwaking Waters mission which made it near impossible to get your melee characters into a group because of their uselessness, etc, etc. I could go on much more but its the same thing in every other "Factions sucks!" thread.
I really hope the people who worked on Factions learned from their mistakes, especially after seeing how great Nightfall is doing.
Of course, theres also the matter of the locked gates preventing exploring and skipping ahead of areas you hated to go through, the lack of quests with skill rewards, the fact that every single city had a different selection of henchmen which made warping around with a henchie team a real pain, the missions that required you to get lucky and get matched up with a decent opposing team just to be able to beat, the design of Unwaking Waters mission which made it near impossible to get your melee characters into a group because of their uselessness, etc, etc. I could go on much more but its the same thing in every other "Factions sucks!" thread.
I really hope the people who worked on Factions learned from their mistakes, especially after seeing how great Nightfall is doing.
dreamhunk
I granteet that if they made another factions it wouldnot sell 
LoKi Foxfire
I know one thing: Factions was horrible compared to Prophecies and Nightfall by far. (*inserts AB grind* *grind grind grind grind*)
Navaros
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Originally Posted by Kakumei
I still don't get all the hate on Factions. I wouldn't be disappointed at all if Chapter 4 is a "Factions repeat"--I don't at all mind the idea of seesawing back and forth between PvE heavy and PvP heavy chapters.
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Other than those few maps, the rest of the PVP content in Factions is exactly the same thing as in Chapter 1.
Seesawing back and forth between PVE heavy and PVP heavy chapters would be fine, except when is the PVP heavy Chapter coming? Because Factions certainly was not that.
Kakumei
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Navaros
How is Factions "PVP heavy"? That's been said a couple of times now in this thread, yet PVP players barely got anything in Factions. All the hardcore PVP players consider the only new PVP mode in Factions (Alliance Battles and the two Aspenwood/Quarry maps) to be scrub PVP and/or PVE that is masquerading as PVP.
Other than those few maps, the rest of the PVP content in Factions is exactly the same thing as in Chapter 1. Seesawing back and forth between PVE heavy and PVP heavy chapters would be fine, except when is the PVP heavy Chapter coming? Because Factions certainly was not that. |
Heroes' Ascent, RA, TA, and GvG are not chapter specific--you can't tie them in with Prophecies, nor Factions, they're core. So taking those out, what PvP did Prophecies have? The Ascalon and the Yak's arena.
Factions, as stated above, had Aspenwood, Quarry, and the Alliance Battles. Comparitively, Factions was very PvP heavy.