I made this thread to talk about Assassins.
Recently, I was getting a party for THK, playing on my monk. We were at 7/8, and an Assassin tried to join. The leader let him in, and a guy immediately said "kick sin sins sux ther armur sux". And guess what the leader did? He kicked him, of course. I told them that I wasn't dealing with that, and left the team. This sort of incidents really annoy me.
Okay, I know that many players try to use an Assassin as a tank, but does that mean that such a fantastic class should be denied any chance to redeem itself? I myself barely ever play my PvE Assassin; it takes too long to find a party. And isn't it somewhat ironic that most of the people who complain about Assassins embody the idiocy themselves? In claiming that Assassins had terrible armour, he suggested that they were meant to take a beating, which in turn suggested that they should be played like tanks. D:
So, post here if you're an Assassin who gets discriminated against, if you are an anti-Sin player, or if you just want to comment.
~Kuna.
Rampant discrimination is fun, eh?
Kuna
The truth itself
Your logic has a false end.
You can take damage even though you're not "tanking". Esp elementalist NPCs like to switch targets and do a mindburn spike. (Afflicted)
Besides that, i agree with you.
I usually talk to assassins before deciding wether to kick them or not, but again, i do to every PUG player i play with. But usually i just "hench it", faster and more(believe it or not) reliable.
You can take damage even though you're not "tanking". Esp elementalist NPCs like to switch targets and do a mindburn spike. (Afflicted)
Besides that, i agree with you.
I usually talk to assassins before deciding wether to kick them or not, but again, i do to every PUG player i play with. But usually i just "hench it", faster and more(believe it or not) reliable.
Kuna
Quote:
Originally Posted by The truth itself
Your logic has a false end.
You can take damage even though you're not "tanking". Esp elementalist NPCs like to switch targets and do a mindburn spike. (Afflicted)
Besides that, i agree with you.
I usually talk to assassins before deciding wether to kick them or not, but again, i do to every PUG player i play with. But usually i just "hench it", faster and more(believe it or not) reliable. Point taken, but a good Assassin isn't getting hit much anyway, most likely. An Assassin with 100 AL would be pretty hilarious, though. o.o
You can take damage even though you're not "tanking". Esp elementalist NPCs like to switch targets and do a mindburn spike. (Afflicted)
Besides that, i agree with you.
I usually talk to assassins before deciding wether to kick them or not, but again, i do to every PUG player i play with. But usually i just "hench it", faster and more(believe it or not) reliable. Point taken, but a good Assassin isn't getting hit much anyway, most likely. An Assassin with 100 AL would be pretty hilarious, though. o.o
Darakus
I actually haven't been discriminated against that much with my sin, sure there were groups that kicked me because I was playing one but overall I didn't have too much trouble finding parties.
To be fair though the type of teams which wouldn't play with sins were not exactly the type of teams I wanted to find a place in, I was looking more for parties who had played a sin before and knew what we could be expected to do and what we would fail at.
To be fair though the type of teams which wouldn't play with sins were not exactly the type of teams I wanted to find a place in, I was looking more for parties who had played a sin before and knew what we could be expected to do and what we would fail at.
Phaern Majes
I have nothing against them, but then I've never had one in my party (and no, not because I refused to let them in). I didn't play one because I hear its hard to get a group and I'm not a fan of the factions campaign. I'd rather go through presearing 100 more times then to go through the beginner's isle once more.
I think you are correct that people completely miss the concept of how an assassin is supposed to be played. I mean you'd thing the name "assassin" might give people a clue. I guess people today think the word means uber tank and not a sneaky, quick and silent killer. Not saying everyone is like this.....
I think you are correct that people completely miss the concept of how an assassin is supposed to be played. I mean you'd thing the name "assassin" might give people a clue. I guess people today think the word means uber tank and not a sneaky, quick and silent killer. Not saying everyone is like this.....
KvanCetre
Well, remember back in the day when people didn't take rangers or necromancers because they were worthless classes?
Valkyrian
I myself have only had a few rare occasions of sin descrimination, but it was mostly cause the leader let in two Sins on accident and odds are that both are not experienced sins... I have a very experienced Sin, but many people who have never tried the class do not know how powerful they can be when used CORRECTLY and with the right combo's, one Sin can be better than two wars sometimes (dmg wise...)
My guideline to any experienced Sin out there is that if you are having trouble getting into groups(PvE or PvP), START your own... That is what I have always done, and when I get people to join I ask them a key question about their build that lets them know I am a SOLID player and I know my stuff! Simple as that
My guideline to any experienced Sin out there is that if you are having trouble getting into groups(PvE or PvP), START your own... That is what I have always done, and when I get people to join I ask them a key question about their build that lets them know I am a SOLID player and I know my stuff! Simple as that
Superdarth
I do get discriminated alot,by idiots frankly..they dont even have a real reason and if they do i can usually assure them its not the case,they just do not listen though,tbh the group leader is a bigger idiot to listen to them..
Anyway its usually a silent discrimination..like when i try to join a group i immidiatly get declined,ALL the time,with groups that could definetly use an assasin or where they already have vital parts like monks,warrriors,you name it..i still can not get in a group,while my alts have little to no problem finding i group my assasin is stuck at a mission for days,if not months.
Its only getting worse to..sompthing has to be done about this,i love the assasin but its getting near impossible to play Guild Wars.
Well there you have it,dumbasses can not play an assasin,so the entire community is convinced assasins suck...
...Now what dous that say about the community?
Yes im out of patience!
Anyway its usually a silent discrimination..like when i try to join a group i immidiatly get declined,ALL the time,with groups that could definetly use an assasin or where they already have vital parts like monks,warrriors,you name it..i still can not get in a group,while my alts have little to no problem finding i group my assasin is stuck at a mission for days,if not months.
Its only getting worse to..sompthing has to be done about this,i love the assasin but its getting near impossible to play Guild Wars.
Well there you have it,dumbasses can not play an assasin,so the entire community is convinced assasins suck...
...Now what dous that say about the community?
Yes im out of patience!
Don Zardeone
The way I see it, anyone who has to pug is in a guild that isn't worthy of the name guild.
- Assassin+orders necros are great (imo even better than rangers+orders but I's have to test that but I'm too lazy) But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
- Crit barragers and, looking at the new nightfall skills, "Crit AssaWarriors" or "Crit whatever" are interesting too. But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
- Pure assassins that have played other professions and know all about aggro, how to get agro and how to get rid of it are also a great addition to a team imo. But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
The way I see it, Assassins, rits, paragons and dervish are specialty classes that require some insight and experience which is gained from playing the core professions.
So nowadays, assassin discrimination is a bit wrong imo. At factions release, I wouldn't even get a canthan character (that's right, I was discriminating asians =X) in the team without asking questions first.
- Assassin+orders necros are great (imo even better than rangers+orders but I's have to test that but I'm too lazy) But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
- Crit barragers and, looking at the new nightfall skills, "Crit AssaWarriors" or "Crit whatever" are interesting too. But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
- Pure assassins that have played other professions and know all about aggro, how to get agro and how to get rid of it are also a great addition to a team imo. But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
The way I see it, Assassins, rits, paragons and dervish are specialty classes that require some insight and experience which is gained from playing the core professions.
So nowadays, assassin discrimination is a bit wrong imo. At factions release, I wouldn't even get a canthan character (that's right, I was discriminating asians =X) in the team without asking questions first.
Kuna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zardeone
The way I see it, anyone who has to pug is in a guild that isn't worthy of the name guild.
- Assassin+orders necros are great (imo even better than rangers+orders but I's have to test that but I'm too lazy) But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
- Crit barragers and, looking at the new nightfall skills, "Crit AssaWarriors" or "Crit whatever" are interesting too. But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
- Pure assassins that have played other professions and know all about aggro, how to get agro and how to get rid of it are also a great addition to a team imo. But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
The way I see it, Assassins, rits, paragons and dervish are specialty classes that require some insight and experience which is gained from playing the core professions.
So nowadays, assassin discrimination is a bit wrong imo. At factions release, I wouldn't even get a canthan character (that's right, I was discriminating asians =X) in the team without asking questions first. Can you really expect a guild to always have 7 people willing to help? x.x
Apparently, lots of people agree with me.
- Assassin+orders necros are great (imo even better than rangers+orders but I's have to test that but I'm too lazy) But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
- Crit barragers and, looking at the new nightfall skills, "Crit AssaWarriors" or "Crit whatever" are interesting too. But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
- Pure assassins that have played other professions and know all about aggro, how to get agro and how to get rid of it are also a great addition to a team imo. But you'd need an organised team for that, not a pug.
The way I see it, Assassins, rits, paragons and dervish are specialty classes that require some insight and experience which is gained from playing the core professions.
So nowadays, assassin discrimination is a bit wrong imo. At factions release, I wouldn't even get a canthan character (that's right, I was discriminating asians =X) in the team without asking questions first. Can you really expect a guild to always have 7 people willing to help? x.x
Apparently, lots of people agree with me.
joncoish
Heh, I haven't had much problem with this myself, but I use henchman most times. The two or three times when I did ask for a group as my assassin, I was grouped in a matter of seconds, so yeah. :P
Kuna
I note that this has been moved. My apologies for posting it in the wrong place, I considered the Assassin board to be more about strategies...
lapsus
The discrimination most of us sins face is a very quiet one. Ive spent hours at raisu palace looking for groups, it took me just as long at arborstone. When i invited myself into groups flat out instant refusal was what i recieved. After i got an alliance group together and got my 15k exotic i was getting asked to join groups. Take that how you want but it saddens me that it took me 75k to get respect.
Eilsys
You see a lot worse stuff than "Sins suck" in GW... just sayin'.
Taurus
If you have a minimal clue on what your doing as an assassin and how to use them, henchway all the way. Getting real players is just a matter of having more fun or getting tru missions faster, but all the missions in this game are totally doable with henchmen.
If you cant do it with henchies, your prolly going to be a weight on your team of real players.
If you cant do it with henchies, your prolly going to be a weight on your team of real players.
Superdarth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taurus
If you have a minimal clue on what your doing as an assassin and how to use them, henchway all the way. Getting real players is just a matter of having more fun or getting tru missions faster, but all the missions in this game are totally doable with henchmen.
If you cant do it with henchies, your prolly going to be a weight on your team of real players. If i wanted to play a game all by my lonesone i wouldve gotton a single-player RPG
If you cant do it with henchies, your prolly going to be a weight on your team of real players. If i wanted to play a game all by my lonesone i wouldve gotton a single-player RPG
Pick Me
I have to say, I've seen both ends of the spectrum.
In Canthas, I've been in groups where the monks told the leader to kick me out (A/Mo). Also in Canthas, I've been in groups where people were fine with me being in the group.
In Tyria, I've been in one group where the leader said they needed another healer (8/8 - 3 warriors, 1 monk, 1 ele, 1 neco, 1 ranger, and me as the last one). I was booted out. I've also been in a group where 5 out of 8 people were cheering me. They all said Assassins kick a**. So sometimes in PUGs, you get people who are happy to see you, and some... not so much.
As a healer, I'm fine with Assassins, I know how hard it is to get into groups, and if you are lvl 20, I expect some level of intelligence. If I saw you in Noob Island, I expect you to tank a lot (because its just so tempting to do there).
In THK, I was in a group where there was no warriors around, so the group asked me to tank (I laughed and told them that Assassins don't tank, but I'll try). We did get a tank and we beat the mission, but for some reason, we didn't get the bonus (did light the becons though).
I say, if the character isn't pulling their weight in a mission and you fail, boot the character. Don't just boot someone just because they chose to be a certain profession. Mesmers are great, but no one asks for one (except one time, when I was doing Iron Mines and the leader asked "glf mesmer"). I laughed and said no one ever asks for a mesmer. The entire party laughed too, but we did find a mesmer and we beat Iron Mines of Muldune.
Discrimination shouldn't exist, but in real life it does, so it doesn't surprise me if people bring that attitude into games as well.
Sigh....
In Canthas, I've been in groups where the monks told the leader to kick me out (A/Mo). Also in Canthas, I've been in groups where people were fine with me being in the group.
In Tyria, I've been in one group where the leader said they needed another healer (8/8 - 3 warriors, 1 monk, 1 ele, 1 neco, 1 ranger, and me as the last one). I was booted out. I've also been in a group where 5 out of 8 people were cheering me. They all said Assassins kick a**. So sometimes in PUGs, you get people who are happy to see you, and some... not so much.
As a healer, I'm fine with Assassins, I know how hard it is to get into groups, and if you are lvl 20, I expect some level of intelligence. If I saw you in Noob Island, I expect you to tank a lot (because its just so tempting to do there).
In THK, I was in a group where there was no warriors around, so the group asked me to tank (I laughed and told them that Assassins don't tank, but I'll try). We did get a tank and we beat the mission, but for some reason, we didn't get the bonus (did light the becons though).
I say, if the character isn't pulling their weight in a mission and you fail, boot the character. Don't just boot someone just because they chose to be a certain profession. Mesmers are great, but no one asks for one (except one time, when I was doing Iron Mines and the leader asked "glf mesmer"). I laughed and said no one ever asks for a mesmer. The entire party laughed too, but we did find a mesmer and we beat Iron Mines of Muldune.
Discrimination shouldn't exist, but in real life it does, so it doesn't surprise me if people bring that attitude into games as well.
Sigh....
lapsus
I agree just shrug it off, do what i do when im waiting for a group, AB. It can really help to blow off some steam.
Shadow Maruader
this is on,as well as off the topic here...to start Who here has ever henched Hells Precipice?...just sayin i have on my war,and compared to some groups henchies were alot smarter,i killed lich the very first time...i too have a sin...no make that 2,i lov em too much
they are to much fun to me to deny them...but i also have a monk,and 2 warriors both experenced...i know alot about aggro becuase of the warriors,and i know alot about limitations of a healer,putting in Assassins can b alot easier to heal then some warriors FYI,most warriors think they can tank a lil to much or are plain dumb think they are Leeroy Jenkins,shout their call run in for boss and leave me to sit helpless behind while he gets destroyed. So ya i do not discriminate sins in the least
they are to much fun to me to deny them...but i also have a monk,and 2 warriors both experenced...i know alot about aggro becuase of the warriors,and i know alot about limitations of a healer,putting in Assassins can b alot easier to heal then some warriors FYI,most warriors think they can tank a lil to much or are plain dumb think they are Leeroy Jenkins,shout their call run in for boss and leave me to sit helpless behind while he gets destroyed. So ya i do not discriminate sins in the least
wilebill
Assassin with 100 armor hilarious? You bet!
A/W, Nightstalker Armor, +15 when attacking gets you up to 85, casting Watch Yourself is another 20, with Bonetti's hot and ready to go. Even so, disengage and get way back at first sign of hp decline.
My assassin is at THK right now. When I first arrived I was invited into a group without even asking because not many there. No problems at all until the very end, when the rest of the team decided to split up and go outside to fight, and of course we lost. I was the last to die, except for the last monk.
I've henched all over Tyria, no problems. But my build is merely a high damage spike build with Moebius and Flurry featuring rapid recharge, and temporary high armor. The price paid for the high damage spike is the class vulnerability to elemental damage. In the hands of a noob it would die quick.
And that is why there is prejudice. Noob assassins die quick and are a burden to the group and to monks. I was a noob assassin once myself, I know! The class has a very steep and long learning curve, and it takes a long time to learn how to play the assassin both as an effective member of the party and a survivor.
A/W, Nightstalker Armor, +15 when attacking gets you up to 85, casting Watch Yourself is another 20, with Bonetti's hot and ready to go. Even so, disengage and get way back at first sign of hp decline.
My assassin is at THK right now. When I first arrived I was invited into a group without even asking because not many there. No problems at all until the very end, when the rest of the team decided to split up and go outside to fight, and of course we lost. I was the last to die, except for the last monk.
I've henched all over Tyria, no problems. But my build is merely a high damage spike build with Moebius and Flurry featuring rapid recharge, and temporary high armor. The price paid for the high damage spike is the class vulnerability to elemental damage. In the hands of a noob it would die quick.
And that is why there is prejudice. Noob assassins die quick and are a burden to the group and to monks. I was a noob assassin once myself, I know! The class has a very steep and long learning curve, and it takes a long time to learn how to play the assassin both as an effective member of the party and a survivor.
Voltaire
Personally I think its getting better for Assasssins, and people are getting used to us. I've had a PUGmate tell me that he used to hate assassins until after playing with a few he started to realize that they could be really useful. True assassin players are merely getting better with time and experience. I for one know that back on Shing Jea Island around the release of Factions I was a horrible wannabe tank (lucky for me, my friend was an experienced tyrian monk who decided to help me out). Now I actually get compliments on my play. Experience is a big boon to the issue.
Another issue is population. Back in the day, I was only one of a seeming endless sea of inept new players who made an assassin because "ninj4s r kewl". Now, in my observation, not only has the general assassin skill level gone up, but the general assassin population has gone down. Don't get me wrong - there are still tons, but its better than oceans.
Experience is a big boon to the issue. Another issue is population. Back in the day, I was only one of a seeming endless sea of inept new players who made an assassin because "ninj4s r kewl". Now, in my observation, not only has the general assassin skill level gone up, but the general assassin population has gone down. Don't get me wrong - there are still tons, but its better than oceans.
Skuld
Live with it. I play Assassin a lot but i wouldn't want a 'sin in my THK team :/
tuperwho
Of course assassins are left out of a lot of parties. Sadly, you just have to expect this now. It's similar to monks getting scruitinized for stupid party members getting themselves killed.... it's just gonna happen.
However, not eveyone in PuG's are stupid, and when you do get into one that will take you, chances are they will be a much better group anyway. Just 2 days ago, I got my sin through Thirsty River and Ascention. Going into the mission, I was in the "requesting to join" area for the group for quite some time, and even caught the end tail of the discussion to let me in or not once the leader hit accept. Thus, I know at least some of the party didn't want me. However, this all changed, as soon as my spinal shivers + icy daggers build singlehandedly started shutting down the giants, priests, and bosses left and right. I got nothing but compliments from then on
So, while the majority of players won't give you a chance, appreciate the ones who do, and start changing the minds of the others (even if it's 1 or 2 at a time), like me
However, not eveyone in PuG's are stupid, and when you do get into one that will take you, chances are they will be a much better group anyway. Just 2 days ago, I got my sin through Thirsty River and Ascention. Going into the mission, I was in the "requesting to join" area for the group for quite some time, and even caught the end tail of the discussion to let me in or not once the leader hit accept. Thus, I know at least some of the party didn't want me. However, this all changed, as soon as my spinal shivers + icy daggers build singlehandedly started shutting down the giants, priests, and bosses left and right. I got nothing but compliments from then on
So, while the majority of players won't give you a chance, appreciate the ones who do, and start changing the minds of the others (even if it's 1 or 2 at a time), like me
lapsus
Idk i got through THK and in a group really quickly. It maybe the 15k exotic armor but who knows. When i started to slaughter the mursaat and mantle before they even got through the door i got aton of kudos, although the jade armors did own me badly. If only they werent immune to poison and deep wound....
Bloodied Blade
If you guys remember this, there was a post a while ago that said you should only take assassins into your group if they have the "Legendary Survivor" title... I think most of the community is still stuck on that.
I still haven't beaten the game with my assassin (not for lack of playing her, I just hopped aroung trying to get a good guild and then got rather addicted to HA...I'm stuck on the 10k faction things), but I always got compliments on how well I played compared to other 'sins that the party leaders had run with. It really is sad though that people don't accept many assassins into groups.
...I really wish that GPS was still 5e and AoD was 10 second recharge again...
I still haven't beaten the game with my assassin (not for lack of playing her, I just hopped aroung trying to get a good guild and then got rather addicted to HA...I'm stuck on the 10k faction things), but I always got compliments on how well I played compared to other 'sins that the party leaders had run with. It really is sad though that people don't accept many assassins into groups.
...I really wish that GPS was still 5e and AoD was 10 second recharge again...
Yanman.be
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
Live with it. I play Assassin a lot but i wouldn't want a 'sin in my THK team :/
Hmm. Hmm. How does solo'ing Jade armours and other mursaat outside the Keep sound? I did most of the work. Zipping up and down the walls, interrupting, protecting the king.
Offcourse, there are always bad apples. But a good sin > a so-so whammo almost everywhere...
Offcourse, there are always bad apples. But a good sin > a so-so whammo almost everywhere...
Bloodied Blade
A good sin > any whammo
Skuld
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanman.be
Hmm. Hmm. How does solo'ing Jade armours and other mursaat outside the Keep sound? I did most of the work. Zipping up and down the walls, interrupting, protecting the king.
Offcourse, there are always bad apples. But a good sin > a so-so whammo almost everywhere... Yeh, done both but I prefer trapper over assassin in there.
@Bloodied, good ele over bad ele too, poor example lol..
Offcourse, there are always bad apples. But a good sin > a so-so whammo almost everywhere... Yeh, done both but I prefer trapper over assassin in there.
@Bloodied, good ele over bad ele too, poor example lol..
seven
for a moderator in an assassin thread, you're not really supportive of them aren't you?
and yeah, geting THK bonus was quite easy as a dagger assassin, manning the catapults and quickly backstabbing enemies and they pass the gate and shadowstepping back was simple and basic. we didn't even have a single trapper and 3 henchies with us then.
and yeah, geting THK bonus was quite easy as a dagger assassin, manning the catapults and quickly backstabbing enemies and they pass the gate and shadowstepping back was simple and basic. we didn't even have a single trapper and 3 henchies with us then.
CagedinSanity
I think it's the lower level assassins who have the most trouble. I've seen level 20's and PvP asn's kick some incredible amounts of ass.
Kuna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
Live with it. I play Assassin a lot but i wouldn't want a 'sin in my THK team :/
Assassins are pretty good for THK. XD
=O It's Skuld! <Autograph request> =P
...<3 Nightstalker armour. =3
=O It's Skuld! <Autograph request> =P
...<3 Nightstalker armour. =3
MisterB
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsus