Heroes > Me (a.k.a I want to be a Hero...)

During the WPE, I spent quite some time playing with the new hero system and I realized that I had much more fun building and playing with heroes, than playing with my own character. New classes and weapons are good and all, but my hero had access to everything I have unlocked on *all* my other characters (and in PvP). The flexibility and the raw power of heroes cannot be compared to what you have on your own pve character.

I tried a lot of configurations and builds and despite my character's 30 additional skill points, my extra level(s), and my equipment boost (runes, caps), my heroes were basically doing everything for me for two reasons: access to the best skills and combos, and constant adaptability.

So the question is: is that really a good thing?

On the one hand, I understand it's fun to play with super flexible heroes and original builds. The heroes' flexibility is especially nice in a casual PvP environment. On the other hand, the players' pve characters are crap in comparison. Seriously, at low levels you're stuck with no elite, junk skills and only one fixed secondary, and at higher levels you have to re-buy all your unlocked skills and to re-capture the same elites (from other campaigns), and to grind endlessly for skill points.

I think the current hero system is unbalanced, and somewhat frustrating. During the WPE, a couple of very simple MM builds cleared everything for me, and after release, I know I'll focus more on my heroes than on my own character. It also means that I'll rarely play in PuGs with more than 2/3 human players because veterans will look for other veterans with heroes on steroids (recycled ubber equipment, unlocked skills), instead of playing with the average newcomer.

I really, really like the flexibility of the heroes. They basically highlight the best features of the core of this game: skill selection, builds, combos, synergies... Thus it would be a big mistake to briddle them, or to alter the current hero system.

We just need more adaptability on our own PvE characters. One must understand that our characters cannot be as flexible as heroes (ANet has to keep gold sinks, skill point grinding and all), but the Nightfall PvE gameplay would benefit from a *little* more flexibility on the players' own characters.

Otherwise quite a lot of veteran players will never leave home without three super-twinked heroes with optimized builds. If the newcomer who's playing his first character cannot customize his own character (for instance with a couple of key PvP unlocks) he might struggle to find veterans to play with.

Many options could be considered but two features would be very very sexy:

- unlimited change of your secondary profession (no quest, no profession changer after 4 missions, no low-level limit, no petty 500g fee...)

- ability to buy unlocked elites from skill trainers (just like regular skills)


Basically anybody can unlock an elite with minimal effort (either with former characters or in casual PvP). Then it can be twinked on any hero, and it makes the game more fun for veterans looking for diverse options. Yet it would be better to see the same elite on a *human*, playing with other *humans*.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree, the heroes' superior adaptability in the early game is silly.

I'm really surprised that they use your account unlocks rather than the one character's unlocks. I'd rather see the heroes slowed down a bit, rather than let a brand new player character just get everything right out of the gates.

I like that you don't have to grind endlessly to optimize a character, but I like a little bit of growth and progress.

I like both of the OP's suggestions.

Good ideas. Another might be to be able to buy skills that you have unlocked with Faction (for PvP characters) for half the price from skill trainers.

When I was playing during the WPE, my ranger was doing a fair bit of the damage, and i had a HH monk, evi/for great justice spike warrior and a backup ranger pumping out the spirits and attack skills. I didn't feel useless at all. I think its perfectly balanced as it is. And as for the newcomers, if the game gives their heroes a few more skills than normal, starts them off with a capable build of 8 skills, and points the newcomer in the direction of hero skill selection, they're set. It doesn't mean they won't get into vet groups (who needs vets anyway?), its essentially the same problem as there's always been (I don't think theres even a problem there).

I've posted my concerns about the preview heroes on a few other threads already but no one paid attention.

Using both monk heroes, the ranger hero, and assorted henchies, I cleared the bog just by placing flags and sitting back sipping my drink while they fought. Heroes having access to literally all Prophecies and Factions skills was a bit much. Perhaps their skill access will turn out to work differently upon release.

If they used character unlocks they would be limited to your primary and secondary class skills.
My suggestion is to put quest somewhere in the middle of the story which will unlock ability to use elites by heroes (one quest for all heroes). Another quest can be used to give them +15 AP etc.

I don't see much of a change here, compared to Prophecies or Factions. The "NO N00BZ PLZ" veterans have always turned down newcomers. They don't want to play with them because supposedly they don't have enough experience and enough powerful level, skills, weapons, armor, runes, etc. Heroes is just one more item in that list.

They did say that during the PVE, heroes couldn't use signet of capture. I suspect once they can then elites may not be available to them so early.

Wait, so after months of complaining that henchies were cannon fodder and that no high level missions could be completed with them, now suddenly they're OVER powered?

Now that's what I call ironic.

i think it's great and i feel validated for making sure that i have every skill unlocked. you can pretty much pick any mission (except aurora glade and vizunah square...well and the last factions mission vs shiro) and finish it with the hench doing all the work. i've even heard that people nail that last factions mission with hench (but they do some of the work) oh, and thirsty river (though i know someone who's beaten it with hench, he participated too).

they're intended for people to be able to play through all the missions with only 1 other person so it gives you options. seeing as how most pvp-only folks that buy the cheat-packs won't be spending much time in the missions, it doesn't give anyone any kind of "unfair advantage" or whatnot.

the only thing that bothers me is thinking about all the minor runes i'm going to have to jugle for these guys.

there's eonugh of a money sink for armor and skills every 6 months now, i don't want to have to farm aggressively to be able to keep up tyvm. those of us who have all the skills unlocked generally have like...gotten all the skills and don't need to be spending more money.

if it's that important to you, go read the aesop fable about the grasshopper and the ant (and start saving food, winter's coming)

if all else fails, go spend a half hour in ab and make eonugh faction to unlock 2 or 3 skills or go get it on your primary. all that would do is increase your options on your other characters.

I liked it the way it was during the preview event. I liked to toy and play around with different builds and I loved the access to all skill I've already unlocked. I don't want to unlock and grind again for basic skills for my heroes simply because I've done it already with many of my own characters.

Agreed x10. I was prepared to be thoroughly disappointed with Heroes, but the fact that I could give them any skill I had unlocked made playing with them an excellent experience. At least some of this should rub off on our PvE characters.

Well... My WB dervish was hitting 2 or 3 monsters for 100+ criticals every 5s so, so *of course* I wasn't useless. The problem is that heroes had access to higher caliber stuff than me.

Let's take the most overpowered example: when you have 12 x minions (level 12) maintained by 2 BiPers (buffing one another), the rest of the group (lvl12 to 14) is full of energy, and every mob (lvl 12 -15) is basically killed in seconds. The main problem here is not the heroes' intrinsic power (it's noob island, after all), it's the fact, my own character wasn't able to replace one of them.

I played with many other builds (such as conditions spreaders + ViM + toxicity) and the results were basically the same : it was very easy to tweak heroes in order to make them work together as a team, and *I* was struggling to fit in this group.

That would be a bad idea. At low levels, your heroes would be limited to your own professions (totally redundant), and at higher levels you'd have grind for *even more* skill points and to recapture even more elites for your troops.

As far as I am concerned, steamrolling low level areas is normal for someone who has played with many professions, many skills for many months. You can do it with henchmen (which are already more powerful than the average player), it's just more fun if you can customize your heroes. The real problem is that I had more fun building a team of 3 heroes than in playing my own character, and that I was struggling with a ridiculously small pool of skill points I had to grind.

You can do the same with standard henchmen as soon as you have a group of 8. For the records, you can complete pretty much all missions and quests with an empty skill bar or an echo mender. Making them weaker won't make the game more enjoyable, especially for those who have countless of hours behind them.

May be it would improve the RPG feel for some players. However at higher levels your own character will still be stuck with skill points, elite capture and you will have to re-do everything you've already done with other characters (missions, captures, runs...). Meanwhile your heroes will be better and more flexible than you.

That would be over the top. The price of skill points was designed on purpose to make pve players grind and farm for their progression. I don't like it but it's a key element of the economy. Moreover your suggestion doesn't solve the problem of skill points and boring elite (re)captures.

Basically, it's more a problems of options given than a problem of acquisition speed. Players will still *have to* farm because it's a part of the MMO game balance. What I'd like to see is a reduction of the unnecessarily boring parts and a few options for my characters to blend in my heroes' group.

The difference is that newcomers could be the 7th and 8th player of a PuG, and they needed only accessible skills to be accepted. With heroes, newcomers will have a harder time because 2 veterans can form a full and optimized group, and because they don't have super rare elites from the Mineral Springs to put on their heroes to do the same.

That wouldn't solve the problem at all. You don't actually need elites to make them work as a group, and you can change your configuration whenever you want (whereas you can't do the same with your character). And in the endgame you'll still be limited by your own skill points whereas your heroes won't. They'll remain stronger and more flexible than you.

It's not because of heroes, it's because MM is extremely efficient in pve. Usually MMs aren't available in every single mission/quest, especially in PuGs. With heroes you can have every efficient build on demand. Every time you need you can have MM/boonprot/spirit spammer/whatever in your party. It's not heroes fault.

Again, I unfortunately haven't played during the preview event, so I only know what I heard about heroes. Sorry if what I'm suggesting is already implanted, or it has already been suggested.

I believed before I read Devourer's post you had to buy/unlock skills and equip for your heroes. Learning that you can use any unlocked skill/item is good news for me. Just imagine if you had to buy new weapons, to cap all the skills you need for all the heroes of all your chars. That's something I would do for the heroes of my main char - I'm sure I wouldn't for the 9 others.

You're suggesting to make elite skills buyable from trainers, just as any normal skill you have unlocked. But it wouldn't change anything for newcomers, as they wouldn't have unlocked those skills. Now if it's about buying elite skills from trainers even if you don't have unlocked them, I'd say the PvE part of GW is already easy enough. ANET tried to give PvEers new things to do, with titles for example, to try to satisfy PvEers bored when all they had to do was tombs or SF (or UW and FoW for those lucky enough 1/ to be european, 2/ to be either a ranger or a necro or a monk). Supressing one PvE activity (skill capping) would be a bad idea IMO (and i'm even not mentioning all the Skill Hunters who would whine about that).

On the other hand, even if you give access to all the elites of the game to new comers, he wouldn't still become an experienced player - he still could not be able to make a good build either (I remember this guy who posted his build in the ranger forum: he was using barrage and 2 or 3 preparations... He had an elite - he also had one of the worst build I've seen).

Now indeed if heroes can use any skill from the beginning, there is a problem. But instead of giving access to any skills to players as well, why not restricting the skills you heroe can use? You could restrict their elites to what a fresh character can have capped at the specific part of the story you are.

The same goes for weapons: if heroes (tell me if it's right again, I havent tested NF) can equip all the weaps you have unlocked (ie: max damage weapons) you could restrict them to the weapons you can buy in the most advanced town you have visited.

Speaking as a NO NOOBS PLZ people, I want hero skill availability to stay exactly as it was in the preview. I hate the concept of endgame elites and see no reason why I should take my hero all the way to Cantha and churn out an arbitrary 10k faction all over again so my rit hero (assuming there's one) can be a spirit lord. I did that grind once and have no desire to revisit PvE Cantha. That's assuming I can even take heroes out of Elona.

No, the "heroes" are fine as they are. I don't want to get messed up by human stupidity and just explore with "players" I know what they're capable of. It doesn't take away anything nor is it broken or exploiting, nor does it make me obselete.

I just believe you shouldn't interpret too much into your own virtual existence and seek a meaning behind everything you do. There is not much psychological or phylosophical depth behind GW. Take it easy.

No, the "heroes" are fine as they are. I don't want to get messed up by human stupidity and just explore with "players" I know what they're capable of. It doesn't take away anything nor is it broken or exploiting, nor does it make me obselete.

I just believe you shouldn't interpret too much into your own virtual existence and seek a meaning behind everything you do. There is not much psychological or phylosophical depth behind GW. Take it easy.

options are good.

i like the option to give them all the skills i have unlocked with my account because, well, i unlocked them, with several different characters, it took me time and effort, and now as i have unlocked those skills, the effort is now going to give fruits.

its an option to give the heroes all the skills you want.
you can give him the skills or you can decide to not give them the skills.

YOU gave him the skills, he didnt choose them, you are still the "main heroe" but not the damage dealer leader.

i used to complain about henchmen firepower, that they lack it, at raisu palace me and a guildie (monk and rit respectively) took the henchies and tried, twice that night, we didnt get through that mission that night, next day i try it with the same henchmen configuration with my warrior, and finished that mission easily.

now instead of just being the iron horse, now you are the master pupeteer (sp?) pulling the strings. and personally, i like being the mastermind behind the group.

The solution is not to nerf Heros but rather it is to buff normal characters so that they can also use any skill that is unlocked on their account. This has been suggested a long time ago on the Suggestions board and it's a great idea, now moreso than ever. If you have unlocked a skill on your account you should be able to use that skill on any character, period.

all you are saying is only for the island, from the moment you get to the "real" story and are lvl 20 (wich is hopefully 80% of the game) you will have your own builds and are as powerfull as your hero.

I think the heroes are excellent, and only as good as their controller:

ie: you.

if you build them right, rune them right, flag them right, they are AWESOME.

If you dont know jack about directing a party like a good tactician, they fight like regular henchmen and youll die

in the end its more options to the player, but id still rather play with real people cause heroes dont have burping contests on vent XD

The heroes' skills are a tad extreme. I found it quite ridiculous that Koss and the monk Heroes can use Hundred Blades and WOH when you first aquire them, being only level 2-5. On the other hand, forcing a hero to unlock every skill in the game for his use is quite frustrating. Therefore I propose 2 solutions:

1. Heroes can use any non-elite skill you have unlocked in your account. As for the elite skills, your main character has to capture them, and only then they become unlocked for all of his heroes.

2. Heroes can use any non-elite skill you have unlocked in your account. As for the elite skills,every hero is on his own, and must capture them individually.

I agree with everything Frog said, but I REALLY don't want to see the Hero end of things tweaked, I like the skill distribution as it was with them... It would be INCREDIBLY frustrating to have to unlock all the skills for them. So I second Frog's suggestions. I really like the idea of being able to unlock Elites at any skill trader. It's too frustrating to have to want on a elite you know is in a remote location at the end of the game your second time through the game with a new character. The Start of the game will not change at all, it will not give you any advantage that experience wouldn't give you to begin with, so I don't see a problem in offering all the skills you've unlocked (elite or not) at any skill trainer (ESPECIALLY the on in the Guild Hall).

Been there, done that, but with heroes and flags, there's a huge difference. Playing with 7 henchies and no flags (Prophecies and Factions) still takes player involvement. In the preview, I could kill enemies at the edge of my radar, without having line of sight, or ever coming within twice the aggro range. I could kill them from so far away, I didn't even gain XP for the kills.

If there are repeatable quests, I could make a Legendary Survivor without ever aggroing an enemy except for the early game while I work toward the point where I have 3 heroes and parties of eight. Something about that doesn't seem quite right.

What I wanted was smarter henchmen, and what we got were three extra "characters" who may, in the beginning, be *better* than out own "characters".

I'm nto a group, I'm my character. Singular. One person, the hero saving the world.

Except now it's a committee. And the other members of the committee have more skills tha I do, including end-game, hard-to-cap elites from other chapters! That certainly devalues my character, who is stuck with a few paltry starter skills.

The Factions storyline did the same thign -- it devalued my character to being a lackey for Mhenlo and Togo. The NPCs were the heroes, I was just a human-controlled henchman. Which is one of the major reasons I dislike Factions.

I expect the Heroes to be fun, but the game won;t be about *my* hero, it will be about my *group*. And I'm willing to bet that these henchmen will drive the story, leaving my character -- once again -- to be nothign more than a glorified henchman.

I won't bet against you. In the preview, you even HAD to take a certain hero along to be able to play a certain mission at all. Didn't like that one bit.

I think you have overlooked my previous post. It's not because of heroes but because of builds efficiency. *Real* MM (or something else) would be even better than hero. Their skill management (account unlocks) is good as it is.
If you have all unlocks it's because you have played game long time and you are experienced/veteran player (or you have bought unlock pack ).
Ability to give hero every available skill including elites is reward for the time you have wasted unlocking this. New player who just started the game will not have opportunity to use heroes in their full power.
Capping every elite for all of my future heroes is definitely not what I'm going to do when NF's released.

The suggestions I would make:

Heroes cannot use secondary professions until you complete the Elonian equivilent of Ascension.

Heroes cannot equip an elite skill until it has reached level 20.

Sure, they're still going to have a ton of flexibility because they're based on unlocks. But at least that way they won't be given abilities above and beyond what their controlling player has access to.

Peace,
-CxE

Again my concern with heroes is not about their intrinsic strength. They're as strong as your unlock status and a group of heroes is as coherent as your ability to make/reproduce build groups. Players who have unlocked hundreds of skills through PvE or PvP have access to more powerful heroes. Such players expect to breeze through low levels areas such as the newbie island. In short, if your heroes are very powerful, it's likely that you'd steamroll monsters with henchmen anyway.

The problem is that I can build a well-designed group of heroes with many synergies (so far so good), but that my own character doesn't blend in this group (problem is here). I don't mind heroes having access to the top quality stuff (especially at higher levels) if it spares me dozens of hours in old campaigns. My problem is that I'd like to see the same elites on my character first, and then on my heroes.

I really, really like the flexibility of the heroes. They basically highlight the best features of the core of this game: skill selection, builds, combos, synergies... Thus it would be a big mistake to limit them, or to alter the current hero system.

Unfortunately, so far PvE players are still forced to replay through each and every campaign with each and every character to access elites they've already unlocked or captured many times already. That's most frustrating because many options are impossible to consider on your own character but you can use them on your lackeys.

I understand that human characters still need to grind for gold and skill points (economy gold sink, learning curve...), but I'm disappointed to be forced to redo many many missions and quests, just for an elite that is already on 3 old characters. When GW had only one or two chapters, this policy was understandable from ANet's point of view. But after chapter 3 or 4, even casual players will have 4/6 pve toons, and replaying through all campaigns for a couple of elites is not really thrilling.

Even if you limit heroes at lower levels (and it looks like a boring restriction for most veterans), they'll still be much more flexible and more powerful than the player's own character once you reach higher levels (no skill point limit, access to everything).

It's probably normal for a player who doesn't have hundreds of hours behind him, but I'm somewhat sad to see the best feature of the game (builds, combos, synergies) limited to hero bots in PvE.

Historically, only PvP character had access to a full flexibility (for obvious balance reasons). Heroes provide much more options for those who enjoy PvE (especially in a casual way, for questing or for the storyline) and in my book this is a good thing. I'm just a little disappointed because with Nightfall, I know I'll have more fun (at least in pve) with my three bots, than with my own character.

/agree

The hero system was good as it was, geez ... do you rly think I want to cap ALL elites on each character just so that I can equip my heroes with those elites???

NO WAY, I have worked sometime for my fully unlocked account and now you are comming to tell me you want to buy all skills over again (or elites) just so my heroes can equip them...

The heroes are only slightly stronger because YOU have played the game MANY times and unlocked many skills.

There is only 1 solution where i can live with and thats that heroes only get elite skills when they are of the island or something, but even that is... meh

And if your heroes were better then you, then you have to think maybe about a new play style.

My heroes still get killed by mobs where we wouldn't have died if they were real ppl...

Anet don't listen to these ppl... I dont want to start unlocking all elites on every character of mine just so that my heroes can use it...

You can be my Hero baby; You can kiss away the pain..

How about just having all core skills unlocked on any new character, PvP, PvE (maybe after a certain point, the Pre-Searing equivelants), everyone. There is still reason to play the campaign for their specific skills but you're on fairly even fields with a hero.
Further thinking: maybe just all core skills (including elites) at skill traders?

I like the system as is. You shouldn't have to go re-unlock anything. You spent time and plat or faction to cap elites and normal skills, you shouldn't have to go do it over again for each hero. As plenty have posted, they are only as strong as the player. And stupider in most cases.

As for being stronger than the player, the only difference is the elite. It costs nothing on a new char to buy your 6 favourite skills (minus elite and res sig which you should get). If you can't get a good build from that then maybe you should go unlock more stuff rather than worrying about your heroes.

And don't forget this is practically presear. You can't judge something just by how fast they kill training dummys. Take your lvl 20 to shing jea, or ascalon, they'll kill so fast you won't even notice hostiles.

I wouldn't worry about not partying with newbies either. At first I'll just be worried about finishing the campaign, but once I've finished once, I'll party with anyone. Most people I know are the same. The only times I've seen newbies turned down is if we're farming UW or FoW.

The thing you guys have to realize, is that to a noob, the heroes aren't overpowered, since the noob doesn't have very many skills unlocked at all. They are strong at low levels, because veterans don't want to have to play through the whole game to get to a certain point.

Yep. To a new player, having so many options isn't going to mean anything. It'll be too overwhelming for them to start customising the heroes; most likely they just take them as it is. Just because veteran players will have it really easy by micromanaging all their heroes doesn't mean the hero system needs to be modified.

As was mentioned, you can always choose not to micromanage them so much, not to give them powerful builds, or even not to bring them at all. I'm all for realism and a progressive storyline so I'll keep the power level of my heroes down myself. But we shouldn't limit the options for those who don't like it.

But Do the heroes get the extra 30 attributes we get? In the WPE Koss didnt get the 15 attributes from the only 15 att quest i did. Thats a MAJOR set back

Wrong. A smart newcomer can browse fan forums and look for the best builds, and unlock the elite they need with a few RA games. In my book, it's great option because it rewards the smart newcomer as opposed to the noob who doesn't want to learn.

As for the average casual player (playing since GW:F or GW:P), he has 2/3 pve characters already and he has unlocked enough skills to reproduce the most popular/efficient hero builds from fan forums. And if he doesn't, he can take his GW:P or GW:F characters and go unlock what he needs, or he can play a handful of RA games to unlock the elite with Balthazar factions.

So far, newcomers could slip in a good group as the 7th or 8th player. Even if their build were subpar or "not-so-exciting", they had a chance to group with experienced players who would help them beat a tough mission.

Unfortunately, with Nightfall, 2 human players can form a full group with Heroes. So it only takes two veterans to make a very powerful and coherent group. Two weeks after release, the best hero builds will be posted everywhere and a lot of players will mimic them. So the newcomer won't be invited anymore because he just cannot match a well-designed hero. Again, the problem is not the heroes' strength, it's the unability for a human player to blend in a coherent assortment of Heroes (whatever the intrinsic power level).

Let's take a simple example: the old THK (not the nerfed version we have nowadays). This mission used to be so hard that players were trying again and again. Sooner or later, even newcomers had a chance to be invited in a good guild group, or in a group of veterans. They had a chance to play with skilled human players. In Nightfall, most if not all guild/good groups will likely ignore newbies and they will take heroes instead. The AI might be stupid, but with a good build 'copied from fan-site X', he'll do his job better.

Let's take another example: the minion master and the echo/gor/ap nuker are very popular builds in PvE. Playing both builds is so simple that even a monkey could be good at it. So in the first 2 chapters, you could safely invite any unskilled player as long as they were using these templates. Unfortunately with GW:N the same role can be given to heroes (I did that with both builds and it worked like a charm). These templates were the perfect tutorial builds for newbies to learn and to beat tough spots. With GW:N, heroes will be selected over humans thanks to their flexible access to equipment and key-skills and elites, so in the same situation newcomers will have no other option than to play with other newbies.

That's why I'd like to give -at the very least- a couple of flexibility options for newcomers who are smart enough to read fan forums and to reproduce the best standard builds. If they're able to use the same skills as my heroes, and to blend in a coherent hero group, then I'll give them a chance. Otherwise it's unlikely I'll jeopardize a mission (and my time) when I can trust the synergy and consistency of my heroes.

And again, my concern is not about heroes being too powerful, you can build powerful heroes with cheap tricks and a handful of unlocks. You can limit heroes if you want but the problem will be the same. If the hero system is changed to make them less flexible, I'll be frustrated and bored but I'll still exploit the system. My heroes will still use the best skills/weapons available, and they'll sill be better than the average pick-up player.

The WPE hero system gave pve players the ability to make optimized group builds, which used to be something reserved to PvP characters. It highlights the best features of the game: choosing not only the best skills, but skills that work together coherently. The WPE version of the hero system is unarguably the best new feature in GW:N and I sincerely hope it won't be strongly affected.

Yet increasing the pve characters' flexiblity gives a small chance to newbies, and it allows casual players to benefit from past characters and unlocks (and not just through their heroes), and it makes the game more enjoyable for veterans who will beat the third chapter easily anyway. As for hardcore players, they already have a lot of pve carrots to grind.

So far unlocking elites was useless save for the cute hunter title. Make unlocked elites buyable from trainers and players will have an incentive to replay old characters to unlock more elites, and humans will have more options to effectively replace a hero.

Personally i like the heros the way they are now as for the suggestion of making skills you unlocked avaible to all your PvE characters account wide warrens a greater indepth discussion.

Soon having 9 character slots to play with in NF, assumming theres some form of skills unlocking for each of the 10 Heros (cant remember exact Hero no.) means 9 PvE characters X 10 heros to unlock skill for = ARE U OUT OF YOUR MIND!

Please take this into account and consideration before changing anything.....

Edit for spelling.