Primal Rage Rules.

LiamR

LiamR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Prefer Unlight Beer [PuB]

I have been playing in the RA with it the last hour, and it seriously does rule. At 14 str and 16 hammer, it deals so much damage. I did 189 damage to an elementalist Also, i managed 220+ on a ranger, but he was using frenzy.
You just do not use any adrenaline skills, and its one of the best in the game, IMO.

My build. [From memory]

14 Str [12+2]
16 Hammer [12+3+1]

Warriors Cunning
Signet of Strength
Primal Rage
Sprint
Bulls strike [KD moving targets, i think]
"I Will Survive!"
Rez sig
Free [IWAY, Disrupting, etc]

I know this is a build in the skills forum, but it is based on the one 'super crap skill' that people are wrong about.

Discuss ^^

Zui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/

Primal Rage is horrible. So is your build. So are the players you played against.

See a pattern?

LiamR

LiamR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Prefer Unlight Beer [PuB]

Sigh. You are the people that gives it a bad name. I tried this build. It isnt horrible. Don't just say its a bad build. I played with it for an hour, we won 75% of our battles with it. You can very easily say the people we played against where crap. Some where. We killed them very easily. Others, we killed easily, however, some we lost against, it was either the skill of my team / opponents. This build does not suck. In RA it is damn good.

Puebert

Puebert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zui
Primal Rage is horrible. So is your build. So are the players you played against.

See a pattern? I do not like you.

That being said; Primal Rage is a good skill, I only wish the skill disable was changeable.

Such as 10...7 seconds at least so you can use some skills during that time.

I can't remember, it DOESN'T allow you to gain adrenalin (sp), right?

Savio

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puebert
That being said; Primal Rage is a good skill, I only wish the skill disable was changeable.

Such as 10...7 seconds at least so you can use some skills during that time.

I can't remember, it DOESN'T allow you to gain adrenalin (sp), right? Primal Rage disabling your skills is a big part of the reason why it's crap. And no, you can't gain adrenaline on disabled skills.

LiamR

LiamR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Prefer Unlight Beer [PuB]

FFS it is not crap. I proved that yesterday. The build i used needed no adrenaline skills. It would be better if, like, you could still GAIN the adrenaline, but could not use those skills whilst under Primal Rage.

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Comparing it to the Wammos in RA, this build is far superior than them.

While this build is more of a pressure build, as opponent can not stop kitting you and if they do kite without any support, sprint and bull's strike still can hit.

Even though it isn't that bad, but it can't compare to things that is around such as thumpers. As there are builds that serve the exact purpose, yet better, that is why primal rage are considered "crap".

LiamR

LiamR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Prefer Unlight Beer [PuB]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos
Comparing it to the Wammos in RA, this build is far superior than them.

While this build is more of a pressure build, as opponent can not stop kitting you and if they do kite without any support, sprint and bull's strike still can hit.

Even though it isn't that bad, but it can't compare to things that is around such as thumpers. As there are builds that serve the exact purpose, yet better, that is why primal rage are considered "crap". You see, this is what I was looking for. Not just ITS CRAP or ITS SUCKS N00B but a good point, a bad point. I do not know how much damage thumpers do, never playing one, but we played against one at one point, she was killed easily. [Again, this is down to her skill and that of my team]

Zui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/

If Primal Rage is good, why do you see no players in the top 200 running it, much less the top 20? If you claim it's bad in GvG, why do you see no respected Team Arenas guilds running it, and why do you see no respected Heroes' Ascent guilds running it?

You can only claim it is 'good' in Random Arenas against idiots who do not kite at all, and with a team that either has hex/condition removal for you, or against a team that has no warrior-hate or snares. I know I'd rather play to beat good players, instead of playing to beat bad players, because I find playing against good players is fun and challenging. Plus, I can still roll bad teams if I'm playing to beat good players, but I can't beat good teams if I'm playing to beat bad players.

In any organised setting Primal Rage is bad. In Random Arenas against bad players when you're not effected by warrior hate and are against players who do not kite, Primal Rage is OK. In Random Arenas against any good players, Primal Rage is bad.

The reason a Primal Rage build is bad, is because you can't spike with it, you can't really bring an IAS like Frenzy, and you can't bring and use a run speed boost like Sprint. Considering that you've just lost any ability to punish kiting foes, get kills through a spike, and pressure or spike with an IAS, all for slightly more pressure if your foe stands still and there is no warrior-hate. Primal Rage also takes up alot of your energy, so you can't use as many other energy based skills as you normaly could with it, oh, and you can't use any adrenal skills because they'll never be charged. Plus, you're loosing out on Healing Signet, which is king in GvG/RA when you need a self heal... Essentialy you're loosing all the things that make warriors able to get kills, utility that helps them pressure or again net kills(Shock, for example), and even things that keep them alive, all for added pressure against people who don't kite.

Dragannia

Dragannia

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

Me/N

Primal Rage disables your skills, emptying all your adrenaline and worse, your ability to GAIN adrenaline. You cannot spike. You move at normal pace, so anyone with half a mind will easily outkite your damage. It provides no IAS, so even for pressure it's lacklustre as the slow attack times of hammers (the weapon which provides the greatest return in terms of the increased critical chance) hold it back from what could be decent pressure. You cannot heal while in Primal Rage, meaning that in that 10 second stretch you cannot do anything if under attack other than to run (please, don't suggets Mending).

Okay, maybe it would be good if you had someone cast Windbourne Speed on you, and there are random dead things around and you can use IWAY, but sadly, real life does not work like that.

LiamR

LiamR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Prefer Unlight Beer [PuB]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zui
If Primal Rage is good, why do you see no players in the top 200 running it, much less the top 20? If you claim it's bad in GvG, why do you see no respected Team Arenas guilds running it, and why do you see no respected Heroes' Ascent guilds running it?

You can only claim it is 'good' in Random Arenas against idiots who do not kite at all, and with a team that either has hex/condition removal for you, or against a team that has no warrior-hate or snares. I know I'd rather play to beat good players, instead of playing to beat bad players, because I find playing against good players is fun and challenging. Plus, I can still roll bad teams if I'm playing to beat good players, but I can't beat good teams if I'm playing to beat bad players.

In any organised setting Primal Rage is bad. In Random Arenas against bad players when you're not effected by warrior hate and are against players who do not kite, Primal Rage is OK. In Random Arenas against any good players, Primal Rage is bad.

The reason a Primal Rage build is bad, is because you can't spike with it, you can't really bring an IAS like Frenzy, and you can't bring and use a run speed boost like Sprint. Considering that you've just lost any ability to punish kiting foes, get kills through a spike, and pressure or spike with an IAS, all for slightly more pressure if your foe stands still and there is no warrior-hate. Primal Rage also takes up alot of your energy, so you can't use as many other energy based skills as you normaly could with it, oh, and you can't use any adrenal skills because they'll never be charged. Plus, you're loosing out on Healing Signet, which is king in GvG/RA when you need a self heal... Essentialy you're loosing all the things that make warriors able to get kills, utility that helps them pressure or again net kills(Shock, for example), and even things that keep them alive, all for added pressure against people who don't kite.
Strange.. because i cannot remember saying it is bad in GvG. I said it is good in RA. And, btw, did you see all of my matches? Did you know for a fact they did not kite? My energy? The crapness of the oposing team? No. No you did not. You are basing your statement on your own opinion. I know for a fact at least 75% of my foes kited, and i managed to either keep up with them, go back to monk, or whatever, to get my condition [cripple] removed, or just wait about 5 seconds. Then i sprint, bulls strike, any degen, i will survive, wow, primal again. I didn't make this thread for a person who didn't see any of the matches i played, tell me how they where played.

EDIT: As not to double post.

I'm sorry if you think the skill sucks, you have proof that it sucks, you know that it sucks. I'm saying it worked for me in the RA. Anyways, as this is turning into a slagging match, perhaps you can go W/E and have windbourne speed? The energy cost may be too high, though. Oh and BTW, on your last sentance, Drag, this isn't real life, it's a game ^^

Dragannia

Dragannia

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

Me/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamR
Oh and BTW, on your last sentance, Drag, this isn't real life, it's a game ^^ I meant it as a metaphor that in life, things might look good on paper but never works in practice, because you can't have everything delivered on a silver platter. It applies to Guild Wars as well, and pretty much everything.

Poison Ivy

Poison Ivy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Toronto

Hopping

Mo/A

No skill is crap.

It's the way you use it, that's the only thing that determins weather it's crap or good.

Savio

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

Skills are crap when you compare them to other skills that fill the same role and the other skills are so much better. The same goes for builds.

Sinborn

Sinborn

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

California

Me/

Primal rage is frightening in sealed play, if not one of the best skills for the upcoming random environment. It escapes synergy and makes it a strong one-shot device for players that draw it. Take comfort in knowing its strength in that format.

Dragannia

Dragannia

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

Me/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison Ivy
No skill is crap.

It's the way you use it, that's the only thing that determins weather it's crap or good. Nope, there are definately crap skills.

Xasew

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Storm Bearers[SB]

PR offers no IAS, gives you no speed boost and denies you your adrenaline. Hitting for 150+ damage doesn't matter if you can't reach the target. If they made it "Ends if you use a skill", instead of the current blackout version, it might actually be worth looking into.

McMullen

McMullen

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/W

On its own PR is awful, but it does work pretty well with Critical Eye and Way of Perfection if you're a W/A
I'm sure there's other combinations as well like Signet of Strength which is already in the OP's build.

Savio

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinborn
Primal rage is frightening in sealed play, if not one of the best skills for the upcoming random environment. It escapes synergy and makes it a strong one-shot device for players that draw it. Take comfort in knowing its strength in that format. Primal Rage would be good if you had a Warrior and didn't have any other decent skills to bring. But then again, if you didn't have any other decent skills to bring, then there's no point in bringing along a Warrior whose only ability is to autoattack.

LiamR

LiamR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Prefer Unlight Beer [PuB]

For gods sake, your all slagging it off [most of ypu], and it worked for me. You don't have to make yourself beleive that it sucks, just go on some other thread. It worked for me, I won, woohoo.

JYX

JYX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamR
For gods sake, your all slagging it off [most of ypu], and it worked for me. You don't have to make yourself beleive that it sucks, just go on some other thread. It worked for me, I won, woohoo.
So you'll just spout crap and if we don't like it we can go somewhere else? No. I wouldn't mind at all if you just had a PR appreciation society in a corner somewhere, but these are public forums.

What really gets me is this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamR
It worked for me, I won, woohoo. You actually say that like it means something. In fact you said it with such conviction I just had to go out and find out what works for me. No doubt this will be the new metagame:

comonnow

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Xxx The Final Thrust Xxx

W/

^^ROFL^^ PROOF ENOUGH

To OP:

If you dont want feedback then dont post on the forums man. Basically everyone who has posted said its crap. You cant gain adren, which sux. U cant sprint/rush which sux. Who cares about crit hits, because like everyone else says, they will kite you, so it sux. Its a waste of an elite, if you want to do some damage with a hammer, just use rush and stay in it, build adren and spike with a somewhat normal chain. A chain that uses knockdowns and, you know, USEFULL WARRIOR SKILLS.

I'm not going to say anymore, because you tested this in RA which is the worst PvP environment you could possible play in. If you really wanna test it, get 8 COMPETANT PvPers and scrim each other and see how it works, cause ur gonna be running around with your hammer not hitting anything, because you cant reach them, and then a REAL hammer warrior is gonna come over and dev hammer you then crushing blow and you will be running around with "I Will Survive!" on but still cant do any damage cause u have weakness, convered with a deep wound and you STILL cant reach any target. If I played against you as a war I would just wand spike you until i was filled up then KD you and frenzy my spike, then you would stand up and I would kite more.

GG buddy dont post if you dont wanna know the truth about your build, and the truth is, it sux.

LiamR

LiamR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Prefer Unlight Beer [PuB]

-.- I only RA or TA, i hate GVG. And you went all the way to spite me? I dont care, really. Im just saying i saw plenty of hits over 100, and theyre proof enough for me, thanks.

EPO Bot

EPO Bot

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/N

Primal rage is kinda ok if i use it with way of perfection for my WA.

Arkantos

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamR
Sigh. You are the people that gives it a bad name. I tried this build. It isnt horrible. Don't just say its a bad build. I played with it for an hour, we won 75% of our battles with it. You can very easily say the people we played against where crap. Some where. We killed them very easily. Others, we killed easily, however, some we lost against, it was either the skill of my team / opponents. This build does not suck. In RA it is damn good. Sorry to burst your bubble, but
1) Your build didn't make you win 75% of your battles.
2) Theres no such thing as good in RA

Primal Rage is crap compared to almost every other warrior elite. No IAS, and you cant use any other skills.

LiamR

LiamR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Prefer Unlight Beer [PuB]

Actually, you can use them before hand. And okay, it might not be the reason i won, sorry for offending you so very very much? EDIT: How about you could give me a good hammer build so i can do some good damage then xD I'm basically a complete fr00b at pvp, cept from now.

Arkantos

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamR
Actually, you can use them before hand. And okay, it might not be the reason i won, sorry for offending you so very very much? EDIT: How about you could give me a good hammer build so i can do some good damage then xD I'm basically a complete fr00b at pvp, cept from now. It is a good idea to use skills before, but once you use primal rage healing signet is down for 10 seconds, which can be hurtful.


PvP Hammer Build

Dragannia

Dragannia

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

Me/N

Generic Dev Hammer build:

Devastaing Hammer [Elite]
Crushing Blow
Fierce Blow
Frenzy
Rush
Healing Signet
Plague Touch
Res Sig

But just go on the Warrior forums and ask around.

some guy

some guy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

SPAWN CAMPING YOUR HOUSE

We Speed Clear H O H [ HsC]

IWAY+primal rage is a good combo.

Zui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by some guy
IWAY+primal rage is a good combo. Care to explain?

Haggard

Haggard

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Urmston, Manchester, UK

Greener Pastures [DVDF]

W/Rt

25% faster, health regen, high chance of critical, 20% armour pen, all at once. Shame about no attack skills.

fallot

I'm the king

Join Date: Nov 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew: Grand Phallus and Chairman Pro Tempore

Use IWAY then use Primal Rage. You attack faster. Lol.

scamPOR

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

This skill is awful... awful! self blackout every 5 seconds is terrible.

Mr Slashalot

Mr Slashalot

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

i find this skill pretty funny i was messing with a guildie

i used:
Primal Rage
Signet of Strength
Strength of Honor
Judge's Insight

this build would only work if you messing about but i still hit 105 normal attacks with a hammer

in a proper build i just couldnt make this work

NinjaKai

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

Duality Of The Dragon

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamR
You see, this is what I was looking for. Not just ITS CRAP or ITS SUCKS N00B but a good point, a bad point. I do not know how much damage thumpers do, never playing one, but we played against one at one point, she was killed easily. [Again, this is down to her skill and that of my team] Heres the problem with this discussion its you. Your build worked in RA. Thats not exactly what you can call a valid form of testing. And stop trying to disrepute every opinion that dpesn't agree with your own. Overly bias thread creators never make a discussion go far.

Flopjack

Flopjack

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

N/E

I heard that Primal Rage in it's testing stages used to NOT disable skills, and when used with Executioner's Strike, Galrath Slash or other high damage melee attacks, they could easily get up to around 250-300 damage in a hit!

But needless to say, they toned it down... alot.

The only thing I can think that it would make it any good, is if another warrior beside this one used "Charge".

LiamR

LiamR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Prefer Unlight Beer [PuB]

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaKai
Heres the problem with this discussion its you. Your build worked in RA. Thats not exactly what you can call a valid form of testing. And stop trying to disrepute every opinion that dpesn't agree with your own. Overly bias thread creators never make a discussion go far. And people who think i care about other forms of pvp go where..? The only pvp I really do was AB and RA, ive done TA once, didnt really like it. And i've realised the skill kinda sucks, but if you have a build centered around it (A few posts up) Its OK. But too much hastle, really. If ANet made it have a speed/attack speed boost, it would be great.

I Mean I

I Mean I

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

in my guild hall afk

Ar Vin Pvp[AMp]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamR
The only pvp I really do was AB and RA, ive done TA once, didnt really like it. That explains everything <.<

Morganas

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamR
And people who think i care about other forms of pvp go where..? No, RA is a perfectly legitmate form of pvp (assuming you pvp for fun and don't get frustrated easily). It's just that there's no point in posting builds based upon success in RA as evidence that a skill is good, because like empty skillbar warrior showed us, anything can work in RA.

Out of curiosity, anyone try sticking primal rage on a team with some sort of charge warrior? The DPS on primal rage really is pretty good, not sure if it's better than a vanilla warrior or a thumper though. If anything, it might be ok for turning midline mesmers into energy sponges for the monks.

Saphatorael

Saphatorael

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

Primal Rage is a decent elite, but the downside of it makes it rather unliked by the general public...

It's purpose is to maintain a steady DPS, NOT to spike... if you try to use it for that, quit the game and get some common sense before you come back.


For example (just thinking this up right now), go W/A

Siphon Speed, Primal Rage.
The guy can't kite properly whilst you pound him with several high-damage auto-attacks

so spread the word, stop using cookie cutter builds and try those never-used/hated skills in a different way!