UW Farming: SS vs. Famine
Ept
Can someone give me a comparison of SS/SV vs. Famine/SV builds when 2-manning Underworld?
brute blake
When i went Famine with my friend he said he had more energy and prefered it to SS/SV
Scavenger Rage
SS does more DMG then famine...A LOT more dmg!!!
One because you can cast it twice using arcane echo...
Two because as a necro you can use Reckless Haste that increases the dmg a WHOLE lot....
Third because you dont need to use VISAGE to drain axtaxess energy, whitch means they use more skills...whitch mean SS kicks in a lot more...
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If that is not enough SS is more versatile cause you dont have to cast / walk / recharge / cast....you can just go non stop...
Also there is the fact thata RH whith curses at 18 (aweken of blood) gives enemys 60% miss....whitch means easier time for the 55 / 600 monk... And off course....you can always carry blood ritual as a necro to speed things up.
Bottom line....SS necro is still the best (a lot), but famine is a fairly nice build as well
Latter.
One because you can cast it twice using arcane echo...
Two because as a necro you can use Reckless Haste that increases the dmg a WHOLE lot....
Third because you dont need to use VISAGE to drain axtaxess energy, whitch means they use more skills...whitch mean SS kicks in a lot more...
-----------------
If that is not enough SS is more versatile cause you dont have to cast / walk / recharge / cast....you can just go non stop...
Also there is the fact thata RH whith curses at 18 (aweken of blood) gives enemys 60% miss....whitch means easier time for the 55 / 600 monk... And off course....you can always carry blood ritual as a necro to speed things up.
Bottom line....SS necro is still the best (a lot), but famine is a fairly nice build as well
Latter.
Amity and Truth
I'd say they're pretty even in their situations.
SS/RH will shine with small mob sizes while Famine shines with larger mob sizes.
The reason behind this is that you will have to cast/recast spiteful spirit every 5 seconds (if you're using arcane echo) or every 10 seconds if you're going x/mo for a permanent res. The innate damage of Spiteful Spirit is larger plus it triggers on adrenaline skills. Doesn't matter if they hit or not (41 Damage every 1.33 seconds (with RH)).
Famine on the other side has lower innate damage (37 Damage every 1.66 seconds) but has the advantage of not having to be recasted. It is like you've put Spiteful Spirit on every single enemy. For famine (And Mindwrack for that matter) it doesn't really matter if your energy is 0.001 or 0.1 or 1.0. Once you drain it, you reach zero and thus trigger the skills. That is why larger mobs favor Famine. Though the comparison isn't really that fair, simply because Awaken the Blood boosts the Attribute.
Both variants take a multitude of skills to work:
Spiteful Spirit [E]
Reckless Haste
Arcane Echo
Awaken the Blood
Famine [E]
Sympathic Visage
Ancestors Visage
So the Famine Variant uses one skill less but it has to be a Ranger Primary, thus sacrificing one pip of energy regen. So basically, tank large numbers of enemy (which is no problem with Spiritbond) and Famine will work out slightly better. Tank medium to small sized numbers of enemies and Spiteful Spirit will work out better by large margin.
In the end it all depends on the other spells. The curses line has some insanely powerful spells in it like the Enchantment desecrating ones while probably the Ranger/Me is somewhat gimped in his skill choice.
So, Elitewise: Famine wins by a small margin with large mobs.
But Buildwise: Your Average SS/RH Necro will win due to more efficient OTHER spells. Plus he is free to chose his secondary class while the Ranger is forced to go R/Me.
SS/RH will shine with small mob sizes while Famine shines with larger mob sizes.
The reason behind this is that you will have to cast/recast spiteful spirit every 5 seconds (if you're using arcane echo) or every 10 seconds if you're going x/mo for a permanent res. The innate damage of Spiteful Spirit is larger plus it triggers on adrenaline skills. Doesn't matter if they hit or not (41 Damage every 1.33 seconds (with RH)).
Famine on the other side has lower innate damage (37 Damage every 1.66 seconds) but has the advantage of not having to be recasted. It is like you've put Spiteful Spirit on every single enemy. For famine (And Mindwrack for that matter) it doesn't really matter if your energy is 0.001 or 0.1 or 1.0. Once you drain it, you reach zero and thus trigger the skills. That is why larger mobs favor Famine. Though the comparison isn't really that fair, simply because Awaken the Blood boosts the Attribute.
Both variants take a multitude of skills to work:
Spiteful Spirit [E]
Reckless Haste
Arcane Echo
Awaken the Blood
Famine [E]
Sympathic Visage
Ancestors Visage
So the Famine Variant uses one skill less but it has to be a Ranger Primary, thus sacrificing one pip of energy regen. So basically, tank large numbers of enemy (which is no problem with Spiritbond) and Famine will work out slightly better. Tank medium to small sized numbers of enemies and Spiteful Spirit will work out better by large margin.
In the end it all depends on the other spells. The curses line has some insanely powerful spells in it like the Enchantment desecrating ones while probably the Ranger/Me is somewhat gimped in his skill choice.
So, Elitewise: Famine wins by a small margin with large mobs.
But Buildwise: Your Average SS/RH Necro will win due to more efficient OTHER spells. Plus he is free to chose his secondary class while the Ranger is forced to go R/Me.
makosi
With famine, you can only kill melee attackers. I like to kill terrorwebs too so I choose SS necro. A good SS/SV necro will kill the smites as fast, if not faster, than famine from experience (whice i have a lot of 
)
)
cerb
ss/sv can handle anything in UW, unlike Famine. Sure, you could, for instance, tuck a group of smites into coldfires, but if one (or two colds) are not adjacent (don't get affected by SV, AV or Fear Me), what do you do once everything is dead? wand it to death? What about Ice King, Unwanted Guests?
And like Makosi said, a good ss/sv will kill smites just as fast as a famine, while being able to handle any group size (may it be huge or small)
And like Makosi said, a good ss/sv will kill smites just as fast as a famine, while being able to handle any group size (may it be huge or small)
Apple
Ermm :
Famine kills a lot quicker than SS. Anyone who's played both knows this. It takes next to no skill to put up SB, then get an absolutely MASSIVE group and tank the whole lot until they die. To kill coldfires, you just grab their aggro, run them into a manageable position then revert back and tank next to them. It's a lot, lot quicker.
Famine kills a lot quicker than SS. Anyone who's played both knows this. It takes next to no skill to put up SB, then get an absolutely MASSIVE group and tank the whole lot until they die. To kill coldfires, you just grab their aggro, run them into a manageable position then revert back and tank next to them. It's a lot, lot quicker.
Scavenger Rage
Another reason why SS does a lot more dmg then FAMINE (probably the main one...dunno how I forgot): SS's STACK!!!
Each time you put SS on one enemy, ALL the surrounding ones takes the dmg...whitch means, that casting it on 3 diferent ones (its the usuall ammount I can handle before I run out of energy or the first SS ends) you are doin 41dmg (aweken) times 3....whitch is 123dmg each....famine build can't even get close to this number...not even gonna mention the +1 curses that makes 43 dmg each since it triggers 1time each 5 casts aprox. (20% chance).
And APPLE....how so FAMINE is "a lot quicker" then SS?!?!? PLEASE explain to me whith facts ok?!
Latter.
Each time you put SS on one enemy, ALL the surrounding ones takes the dmg...whitch means, that casting it on 3 diferent ones (its the usuall ammount I can handle before I run out of energy or the first SS ends) you are doin 41dmg (aweken) times 3....whitch is 123dmg each....famine build can't even get close to this number...not even gonna mention the +1 curses that makes 43 dmg each since it triggers 1time each 5 casts aprox. (20% chance).
And APPLE....how so FAMINE is "a lot quicker" then SS?!?!? PLEASE explain to me whith facts ok?!
Latter.
Blaze Emup
I don't see how famine could kill faster than SS. With each attack with famine monsters are doing 37 damage to themselves. With SS each monster takes 41 damage each time the hexed monster attacks OR uses a skill and that is multiplied by the times you cast SS. So if you cast SS on 2 monsters that are adjacent (which any good SS necro can do) then in essence that is really 82 damage per attack (41 to the first hexed monster and all adjacent monsters + 41 from the second monster and all adjacent monsters. With coldfires its not even a contest. Hands down SS is better.
LoKi Foxfire
SV triggers on adjacent enemies as well though, so doesn't that mean each time SV is triggered it also triggers the damage from Famine? Instead of having to cast SS multiple times you can just use SV and a huge group like [Apple] said to do a good amount of damage.
Someone should time their runs over a set of 10-20 runs with each build and see which does it faster (assuming their using each correctly) -
Someone should time their runs over a set of 10-20 runs with each build and see which does it faster (assuming their using each correctly) -
Carboplatin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amity and Truth
I'd say they're pretty even in their situations.
SS/RH will shine with small mob sizes while Famine shines with larger mob sizes.
The reason behind this is that you will have to cast/recast spiteful spirit every 5 seconds (if you're using arcane echo) or every 10 seconds if you're going x/mo for a permanent res. The innate damage of Spiteful Spirit is larger plus it triggers on adrenaline skills. Doesn't matter if they hit or not (41 Damage every 1.33 seconds (with RH)).
Famine on the other side has lower innate damage (37 Damage every 1.66 seconds) but has the advantage of not having to be recasted. It is like you've put Spiteful Spirit on every single enemy. For famine (And Mindwrack for that matter) it doesn't really matter if your energy is 0.001 or 0.1 or 1.0. Once you drain it, you reach zero and thus trigger the skills. That is why larger mobs favor Famine. Though the comparison isn't really that fair, simply because Awaken the Blood boosts the Attribute.
Both variants take a multitude of skills to work:
Spiteful Spirit [E]
Reckless Haste
Arcane Echo
Awaken the Blood
Famine [E]
Sympathic Visage
Ancestors Visage
So the Famine Variant uses one skill less but it has to be a Ranger Primary, thus sacrificing one pip of energy regen. So basically, tank large numbers of enemy (which is no problem with Spiritbond) and Famine will work out slightly better. Tank medium to small sized numbers of enemies and Spiteful Spirit will work out better by large margin.
In the end it all depends on the other spells. The curses line has some insanely powerful spells in it like the Enchantment desecrating ones while probably the Ranger/Me is somewhat gimped in his skill choice.
So, Elitewise: Famine wins by a small margin with large mobs.
But Buildwise: Your Average SS/RH Necro will win due to more efficient OTHER spells. Plus he is free to chose his secondary class while the Ranger is forced to go R/Me. Your calculation is flawed.
SS has an aoe effect. Doesn't matter if they hit or not (41 Damage every 1.33 seconds (with RH)). multiply that by the number of enemies in the area, square that for each thing that has ss on them.
SS very quickly becames the highest damaging skill in the UW(cumilative). might be able to compare with wrath/ret.
-edit
i guess sv/av have a similar aoe effect, but colds/terrors are not affect by sv/av.
SS/RH will shine with small mob sizes while Famine shines with larger mob sizes.
The reason behind this is that you will have to cast/recast spiteful spirit every 5 seconds (if you're using arcane echo) or every 10 seconds if you're going x/mo for a permanent res. The innate damage of Spiteful Spirit is larger plus it triggers on adrenaline skills. Doesn't matter if they hit or not (41 Damage every 1.33 seconds (with RH)).
Famine on the other side has lower innate damage (37 Damage every 1.66 seconds) but has the advantage of not having to be recasted. It is like you've put Spiteful Spirit on every single enemy. For famine (And Mindwrack for that matter) it doesn't really matter if your energy is 0.001 or 0.1 or 1.0. Once you drain it, you reach zero and thus trigger the skills. That is why larger mobs favor Famine. Though the comparison isn't really that fair, simply because Awaken the Blood boosts the Attribute.
Both variants take a multitude of skills to work:
Spiteful Spirit [E]
Reckless Haste
Arcane Echo
Awaken the Blood
Famine [E]
Sympathic Visage
Ancestors Visage
So the Famine Variant uses one skill less but it has to be a Ranger Primary, thus sacrificing one pip of energy regen. So basically, tank large numbers of enemy (which is no problem with Spiritbond) and Famine will work out slightly better. Tank medium to small sized numbers of enemies and Spiteful Spirit will work out better by large margin.
In the end it all depends on the other spells. The curses line has some insanely powerful spells in it like the Enchantment desecrating ones while probably the Ranger/Me is somewhat gimped in his skill choice.
So, Elitewise: Famine wins by a small margin with large mobs.
But Buildwise: Your Average SS/RH Necro will win due to more efficient OTHER spells. Plus he is free to chose his secondary class while the Ranger is forced to go R/Me. Your calculation is flawed.
SS has an aoe effect. Doesn't matter if they hit or not (41 Damage every 1.33 seconds (with RH)). multiply that by the number of enemies in the area, square that for each thing that has ss on them.
SS very quickly becames the highest damaging skill in the UW(cumilative). might be able to compare with wrath/ret.
-edit
i guess sv/av have a similar aoe effect, but colds/terrors are not affect by sv/av.
Sekkira
As said before, SV is an enchant which will trigger each time the person is hit in melee. So -3 energy per hit, if you have a group of 20 smites who are hiting once every 1.5 seconds, you have a loss of 20 energy per second and of course when they reach zero energy (which takes about 3 seconds), they're now taking 493 damage per second on EACH of them, not spread out.
SS will do, say you get it off on 3 targets, each one will be taking 74 damage per second.
493dps vs 74dps or to put it realistically times it by 20, 9860dps vs 1480dps (oh and I forgot about reckless haste, but you'll be casting it on a single target. It wont even bring it up to a third of the dps the famine build can deal).
SS will do, say you get it off on 3 targets, each one will be taking 74 damage per second.
493dps vs 74dps or to put it realistically times it by 20, 9860dps vs 1480dps (oh and I forgot about reckless haste, but you'll be casting it on a single target. It wont even bring it up to a third of the dps the famine build can deal).
Mistical miss
I all depends on how much u can lure,
If any of u have farmed Shiroken around harvest temple, you'd know SV+!! AV can kill the lvl 28 shiroken there in less than 5 seconds if u lure them all together. Thats WAY quicker than 3 SS can deal in the time.
However when there are 3-7 enemies I recon SS is significantly quicker as it deals more dmg than the famine by using reckless haste and being able have 3 enemies attack under ss...
But if you have a super monk, who's able to lure loads.. then Famine all the way.. ( you can easily kill casters by luring a bunch of smites to them, but as they are rather weak, the ranger could basically just kill them with his spells/bow)
When an
If any of u have farmed Shiroken around harvest temple, you'd know SV+!! AV can kill the lvl 28 shiroken there in less than 5 seconds if u lure them all together. Thats WAY quicker than 3 SS can deal in the time.
However when there are 3-7 enemies I recon SS is significantly quicker as it deals more dmg than the famine by using reckless haste and being able have 3 enemies attack under ss...
But if you have a super monk, who's able to lure loads.. then Famine all the way.. ( you can easily kill casters by luring a bunch of smites to them, but as they are rather weak, the ranger could basically just kill them with his spells/bow)
When an
Katari
Famine +AV/SV triggers each time energy is reduced to zero. Once energy hits zero, it will trigger each time energy would have reached 1e. If the energy drain from SV/AV hits a target with 0e, nothing happens. This is clear, because if that were the case, this thread would have no reason for existing, the DPS would be roughly 1000DPS for a group of 5 smites. Clearly this isn't the case, and you can prove it in Elona's Reach.
Damage per second from Famine is determined purely by the rate of energy regen.
Aataxes regenerate energy at a rate of 0.66e/s. Each famine trigger only hits one Aataxe, that's a blazing 24.42 DPS per target.
Smites regenerate energy the same as any other caster class, for 49.21 DPS per smite. It's good DPS, but it's at roughly half of what a SS nec can achive by simply casting SS twice. Against a mob of 5 smites, two casts of a 42 damage SS will deal 558.6 total DPS, Famine hits 246 DPS. The damage would not scale in a way that favors Famine as the mobs get bigger. I was also ignoring RS (Which would clearly swing the balance further in the favor of SS), simply because I don't feel like calculating attack speeds. Aataxes attack slower than Smites, but not twice as slow, howerver, they *do* regenerate energy twice as slow.
I could perhaps be wrong in assuming that monster caster classes regenerate energy at the same rate as player caster calsses, but I don't think I am. And at anyrate, it would require stupid amounts of energy regen to make Famine compairable with SS.
Damage per second from Famine is determined purely by the rate of energy regen.
Aataxes regenerate energy at a rate of 0.66e/s. Each famine trigger only hits one Aataxe, that's a blazing 24.42 DPS per target.
Smites regenerate energy the same as any other caster class, for 49.21 DPS per smite. It's good DPS, but it's at roughly half of what a SS nec can achive by simply casting SS twice. Against a mob of 5 smites, two casts of a 42 damage SS will deal 558.6 total DPS, Famine hits 246 DPS. The damage would not scale in a way that favors Famine as the mobs get bigger. I was also ignoring RS (Which would clearly swing the balance further in the favor of SS), simply because I don't feel like calculating attack speeds. Aataxes attack slower than Smites, but not twice as slow, howerver, they *do* regenerate energy twice as slow.
I could perhaps be wrong in assuming that monster caster classes regenerate energy at the same rate as player caster calsses, but I don't think I am. And at anyrate, it would require stupid amounts of energy regen to make Famine compairable with SS.
Avarre
How does SV/Famine kill Terrorwebs?
AscalonWarrior
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scavenger Rage
Another reason why SS does a lot more dmg then FAMINE (probably the main one...dunno how I forgot): SS's STACK!!!
Each time you put SS on one enemy, ALL the surrounding ones takes the dmg...whitch means, that casting it on 3 diferent ones (its the usuall ammount I can handle before I run out of energy or the first SS ends) you are doin 41dmg (aweken) times 3....whitch is 123dmg each....famine build can't even get close to this number...not even gonna mention the +1 curses that makes 43 dmg each since it triggers 1time each 5 casts aprox. (20% chance).
And APPLE....how so FAMINE is "a lot quicker" then SS?!?!? PLEASE explain to me whith facts ok?!
Latter. With Famine, when SV/AV is triggered, all adjanced foes lose -3 energy, and that means when a smite/aatxe/grasping hits you, all ajanced enemies lose -3 energy, so that means if they have 0 energy, they take -37 dmg every time the tank got hit.
Let's do some maths, shall we?
You got 12 smites on you, smites have 0 energy thanks to AV/SV, when smite hits the tank all adjanced smites take -37 dmg. How much damage do they take if all smites hit the tank once?
12x37=444
Answer: Smites take -444 damage if they hit you once.
SS:
You got 12 smites on you, they take -41 (with Awaken the Blood) damage every time 3 smites with SS hit the tank. How much damage do they take if all 3 smites with SS hit the tank once.
3x41=123
Answer: Smites take -123 damage if 3 smites with SS hit you once.
I think that will prove that Famine is faster?
Each time you put SS on one enemy, ALL the surrounding ones takes the dmg...whitch means, that casting it on 3 diferent ones (its the usuall ammount I can handle before I run out of energy or the first SS ends) you are doin 41dmg (aweken) times 3....whitch is 123dmg each....famine build can't even get close to this number...not even gonna mention the +1 curses that makes 43 dmg each since it triggers 1time each 5 casts aprox. (20% chance).
And APPLE....how so FAMINE is "a lot quicker" then SS?!?!? PLEASE explain to me whith facts ok?!
Latter. With Famine, when SV/AV is triggered, all adjanced foes lose -3 energy, and that means when a smite/aatxe/grasping hits you, all ajanced enemies lose -3 energy, so that means if they have 0 energy, they take -37 dmg every time the tank got hit.
Let's do some maths, shall we?
You got 12 smites on you, smites have 0 energy thanks to AV/SV, when smite hits the tank all adjanced smites take -37 dmg. How much damage do they take if all smites hit the tank once?
12x37=444
Answer: Smites take -444 damage if they hit you once.
SS:
You got 12 smites on you, they take -41 (with Awaken the Blood) damage every time 3 smites with SS hit the tank. How much damage do they take if all 3 smites with SS hit the tank once.
3x41=123
Answer: Smites take -123 damage if 3 smites with SS hit you once.
I think that will prove that Famine is faster?
Kuja
Quote:
Originally Posted by AscalonWarrior
With Famine, when SV/AV is triggered, all adjanced foes lose -3 energy, and that means when a smite/aatxe/grasping hits you, all ajanced enemies lose -3 energy, so that means if they have 0 energy, they take -37 dmg every time the tank got hit.
Let's do some maths, shall we?
You got 12 smites on you, smites have 0 energy thanks to AV/SV, when smite hits the tank all adjanced smites take -37 dmg. How much damage do they take if all smites hit the tank once?
12x37=444
Answer: Smites take -444 damage if they hit you once.
SS:
You got 12 smites on you, they take -41 (with Awaken the Blood) damage every time 3 smites with SS hit the tank. How much damage do they take if all 3 smites with SS hit the tank once.
3x41=123
Answer: Smites take -123 damage if 3 smites with SS hit you once.
I think that will prove that Famine is faster? No, because of obvious flaws in your math...For starters, for SS you only have 3 smites taking damage from SS as apposed to 12 for Famine.
Start with 12x41=492 not to mention any overlap of SS
Let's do some maths, shall we?
You got 12 smites on you, smites have 0 energy thanks to AV/SV, when smite hits the tank all adjanced smites take -37 dmg. How much damage do they take if all smites hit the tank once?
12x37=444
Answer: Smites take -444 damage if they hit you once.
SS:
You got 12 smites on you, they take -41 (with Awaken the Blood) damage every time 3 smites with SS hit the tank. How much damage do they take if all 3 smites with SS hit the tank once.
3x41=123
Answer: Smites take -123 damage if 3 smites with SS hit you once.
I think that will prove that Famine is faster? No, because of obvious flaws in your math...For starters, for SS you only have 3 smites taking damage from SS as apposed to 12 for Famine.
Start with 12x41=492 not to mention any overlap of SS
Orinn
actually, he was assuming 3 sources of damage (3 x damage done by SS) to EACH smite.
and he did the same for famine. however, in his example, he had 12 smites hitting. that will trigger famine 12 times (assuming only SV or AV, but you CAN stack them) but will only trigger SS once for each smite that's actually hexed with SS.
the larger the group hitting you, the more effective famine gets.
and he did the same for famine. however, in his example, he had 12 smites hitting. that will trigger famine 12 times (assuming only SV or AV, but you CAN stack them) but will only trigger SS once for each smite that's actually hexed with SS.
the larger the group hitting you, the more effective famine gets.
AscalonWarrior
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuja
Start with 12x41=492 not to mention any overlap of SS
|
Originally Posted by Orinn
actually, he was assuming 3 sources of damage (3 x damage done by SS) to EACH smite.
and he did the same for famine. however, in his example, he had 12 smites hitting. that will trigger famine 12 times (assuming only SV or AV, but you CAN stack them) but will only trigger SS once for each smite that's actually hexed with SS. the larger the group hitting you, the more effective famine gets. That's right. You can't cast 12 SS's, can you? So that is 3x41
Amity and Truth
Well it looks like the only way to settle this argument would be to test it out with around 10 runs each and using the average time it takes to clear the same amount of enemies.
About the Dryder comment, they're actually quite easy. You just tank them along with the rest of the chamber and abuse the melee fighters to drain them along. Discussion won't get this anywhere as there are too many factors and "probables" to include to make it accurate enough to come to a conclusion. Mazrim_Walker
famin will prolly take out a large mob of smites slightly faster than an SS however the time difference is neglictible. ATB + 2 times SS + RH kills the smites in a few seconds SS however will kill the aatxes much faster so i believe that SS would work faster in the long run
Star Alfur
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katari
Damage per second from Famine is determined purely by the rate of energy regen. Aataxes regenerate energy at a rate of 0.66e/s. Each famine trigger only hits one Aataxe, that's a blazing 24.42 DPS per target. Smites regenerate energy the same as any other caster class, for 49.21 DPS per smite. It's good DPS, but it's at roughly half of what a SS nec can achive by simply casting SS twice. Against a mob of 5 smites, two casts of a 42 damage SS will deal 558.6 total DPS, Famine hits 246 DPS. The damage would not scale in a way that favors Famine as the mobs get bigger. I was also ignoring RS (Which would clearly swing the balance further in the favor of SS), simply because I don't feel like calculating attack speeds. Aataxes attack slower than Smites, but not twice as slow, howerver, they *do* regenerate energy twice as slow. I could perhaps be wrong in assuming that monster caster classes regenerate energy at the same rate as player caster calsses, but I don't think I am. And at anyrate, it would require stupid amounts of energy regen to make Famine compairable with SS. Note the bolded areas above - it spells it out. Damage is not dealt each time the tank is hit while enchanted with SV/AV. Damage is dealt when the enemy creature's energy hits 0. That is, the creature's energy must have regen'd up to at least 1 before taking damage from Famine again. That said, I've found SS to be faster than Famine SV/AV.
Etrik
In conclusion, wouldn't it be better to have a SS, a Famine, and a monk tank?
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amity and Truth
sing the average time it takes to clear the same amount of enemies.
About the Dryder comment, they're actually quite easy. You just tank them along with the rest of the chamber and abuse the melee fighters to drain them along. Servants of Grenth quest? Famine, in my opinion is somewhat clumsier - if things don't go down in the first aggro, they're much more difficult to kill. Not to mention RH + SS is already very fast, and the security that a decent SS can kill groups of graspings/coldfires if the tank goes down.. Kelson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etrik
In conclusion, wouldn't it be better to have a SS, a Famine, and a monk tank?
In conclusion....it would be best to have a Ritualist Sprit Bond Tank with VwK, a Holy Wrath smite monk, an SS necro & a Famine Ranger. Well......as long as you're not going for the drops.  As far as Famine vs. SS, I've found that Famine does indeed seem to be faster with particularly large groups, but SS is much more versatile, therefore I prefer it. For example, if I somehow get trapped while trying to lead the Smites back into the Coldfires, I am screwed with Famine - they will not die unless I can pull another group to them. With SS, this is not an issue; it forces no requirements as to group size or composition. Since the damage in any case is comparable, SS gets the nod due to its versatility.
XvArchonvX
I've fooled around and ran with a SS and Famine ranger guildmate at the same time and against the Smites, Famine would often kill the smites before the SS had time to cast Arcane Echo and SS.
Famine rangers can still kill Coldfires without having the tank pull Smites next to em, they just have to bring other skills like Apply Poison to take them out. However even in that case, a SS will usually take out the Coldfires faster. manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by AscalonWarrior
That's right. You can't cast 12 SS's, can you?
So that is 3x41 SS affects the mob who has the spirit and ALL adjacent foes. So, that's 3x41x12 if they are grouped together, which they will be. carnivore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson
In conclusion....it would be best to have a Ritualist Sprit Bond Tank with VwK, a Holy Wrath smite monk, an SS necro & a Famine Ranger. Well......as long as you're not going for the drops.
heh, might as well add in Spoil Victor spam(w/ a 55tank), Barage, and 2 extra Vengeful Weapon spamers.
Amity and Truth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Servants of Grenth quest?
Hehe, that is basically why i said above that Famine is a better choice Elitewise, but your average Curses Necro will be much more efficient otherwise. Servants of Grenth will indeed give the Famine Ranger a severe Headache but the normal 3 Dryder group near the statues won't.
Another question would be, can Famine power through the Behemoths? I don't think so and this excludes one from the ecto pregnant areas behind the twin serpent mountain (damn, how often have i wished for a way to just skip that silly boring mountain - even when on a 8 person team :P). And thus once again. If you're only comparing Famine with SS, Famine wins in large groups but is crippled in many other situations making it not a worthwhile option to take in a duo farmteam that wants to do more than just Aatxes and a few Smites.
XvArchonvX
Call me crazy, but who cares about the quests? If you are farming UW for profit, they why do anything beyond Aatxes and Smites when everything else has a drastically lower profitability? Even with the 1k cost of admission, multiple smite runs will earn more than a few runs that require clearing out of many enemies that don't even drop ectos such as Graspings, Coldfires and such.
cerb
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Call me crazy, but who cares about the quests? If you are farming UW for profit, they why do anything beyond Aatxes and Smites when everything else has a drastically lower profitability? Even with the 1k cost of admission, multiple smite runs will earn more than a few runs that require clearing out of many enemies that don't even drop ectos such as Graspings, Coldfires and such.
Are you kidding me? Have you ever done the quests? Sometimes you can do a smite run and get nothing, do Ice King + Unwanted Guests and get 4 ectos. It has very very good drops and is not over farmed (unlike smites)
Amity and Truth
Well, i'm doing the quests for another reason. The reaper quests each spawn a key-less chest. So on top of the ecto the Dryders during the Servants of Grenth Quest may drop, you get a shot at a crystalline sword out of one of those chests. I got mine from one (sadly no inherent mod though but max damage XD)
Mera Regila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Alfur
Note the bolded areas above - it spells it out.
Damage is not dealt each time the tank is hit while enchanted with SV/AV. Damage is dealt when the enemy creature's energy hits 0. That is, the creature's energy must have regen'd up to at least 1 before taking damage from Famine again. That said, I've found SS to be faster than Famine SV/AV. WTF is with everyone believing that completely untrue myth? It doesn't HAVE to hit 1 and then go to 0, even if it's 0 then goes back to 0 again it still does AOE damage. If you don't believe me then try the Shiro'Ken farming build, it does absolutely massive dmg and they cast the famine themselves! I KNOW that they haven't hit 1 energy because they lose energy every fraction of a second. Famine+SB Monk+Large Mobs=WAY more damage than SS SS+55/SB Monk+Small Mobs=More damage than Famine in this case, but this is only if you like taking it slowly. SB is way way way better than 55, for UW especially because everything will almost definately hit over than 60 per hit, except those Grasping Darknesses which are pathetic. Say there were 2 rooms with 1,000 Smite Crawlers in one room (i know this would never happen but bear with me), and there were the 55 in one room with a famine ranger, and SB in one room with famine ranger also. 55 Would be able to tank 24 at most without dying, wheras SB could tank all 1,000 and they'd be mauled in less than thirty seconds at the most. I rest my case.
Amity and Truth
Famine and Mind Wrack actually DO trigger on 0.x energy. There is energy inbetween 0 and 1. If you want to see it with your own eyes go outside of Beetletun and hit the mergoyles. Make sure to lower your energy regeneration to one by bringing some useless maintained enchantments.
They will cast Spirit Shackles on you and sooner or later Mind Wrack. Now have a close look at your energy bar. Not once will it hit 1 energy again as you're constantly draining yourself through Spirit Shackles. But Mind Wrack still damages you everytime it is cast and you hit the enemy. Go and try it if you don't believe it.
daky
famine kills smites faster but slower at start. SS is a pretty steady pace. Also i find famine is easier for the monks. making it my personal choice for when i pug. if it makes the monks job easier less chance of the pug dieing on me.
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson
In conclusion....it would be best to have a Ritualist Sprit Bond Tank with VwK, a Holy Wrath smite monk, an SS necro & a Famine Ranger. Well......as long as you're not going for the drops.
Eh, Cerb and I ran a Spirit Bond IW Scythe mesmer with SV and a Mo/R smite monk with famine  Trying to fit as many builds as possible...
mad 55 monk
Famine fans can you plz post a video of a smite run done under 16 mins ?
Cause SBmonk + SS duo are able to finish it in/under 15 mins every time. p.s. sry for my english. nghwee
I second that.
IMO only two things matter in this discussion. First is speed of completing a smite run, for ecto farmers. Second is versatility of dealing with different mobs/aggro. Talking abt how fast famine kills a big mob ignores the time necessary to collect a nice big aggro, avoid colds, etc. If talking abt smite run - true litmus test is the time taken to complete a run, not how fast u take down a nicely arranged mob. Who knows how long it took to arrange it. If talking abt versatility........ don't think I have anything to add.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by nghwee
Talking abt how fast famine kills a big mob ignores the time necessary to collect a nice big aggro, avoid colds, etc.
Are you insinuating that a run will go faster if you collect single small groups and take out coldfires? Idk about you, but I see it as being a lot faster to take a quick stroll and aggro 4-5 mobs of smites and take them out once rather than having to wait on the casting times for each mob waiting for SV to drain before casting SS. Whether you run SS or 55, how is it faster to stop and recast everything 4-5 times instead of just once at the simple expense of walking a slightly larger distance?
If your assumption is that a Famine build must skip the coldfires, I must disagree. It is still easy to take out Coldfires by aggroing smites next to them. In fact, when you do it this way, you take out two groups at once and thus reduce the time taken. Another factor I have noticed many people miss is that Famine rangers also have other skills at their disposal beyond Famine and SV/AV. Apply Poison speeds up deaths of Aatxes and Coldfires and Savage Shot (or Power Return, or whatever interupt) is a far superior defense against Nightmares than simply wanding them (not to mention the inceased damage a ranger can do with a bow compared to a wand).
Tainek
To take out coldfires just bring Apply poison and Spirit shackles, gg
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