Heroes: the new money sink?

I was just wondering the other day that when Nightfall comes you'll be handed out about half a dozen hero characters. Then I began thinking if they had separate inventories? Since some of us will have 8+ character slots you'll eventually start thinking how much it would cost to fully equip some 6 heroes in every slot? TBH I find purchasing 8x6 superior vigors (and even major ones) a bit daunting. Yes, you can use minor ones too but think it over for a minute how the market is going to react when some 1 million people want to have their 50 minor vigors?

And moreover if you don't want to glog up your box and spend several minutes every time you want to take so much as a little walk you'll have to keep them all fully equipped at all times.

As it seems there has been some speculation if the insciptions will crash the market of rare items. In that case do you think the heroes will become the new money sink of choice for the hardcore minority ie. black armored Koss with the 1337est equipment available?

I'm sorry if my concern is unfounded or if this has been posted already but I got a bit curious about this.

I am already in the process of equipping my future heroes. Low cost greens are a great way of equipping them. As for the Vigor runes... Those will surely become more expensive. I think I'll be stacking a few superiors for my new characters and a dozen of majors for their heroes. But yes, there's a *big* chance that heroes will become the new moneysink.

I'll only use things I find... Otherwise all they're getting is hand me downs. No way would I spend 30,000 for a Superior Vigor rune on a hero and wind up not bringing him or her half the time. Although its really not that hard to get some greens for them, anything relative will get them by. I'll just give them the weapons of the characters I'm not using at the moment.

I seriously think the heroes will essentially be like PvP-only characters. You'll be able to choose what runes (that you've unlocked) you want on their armor, and equip them with pvp-style choose-your-mods (unlocked) weapons. Being able to also give them weapons you find will just add a sense of 'dress-up' and only for show.

But remember, opinions are like a**holes...

I believe I read somewhere that hero's armour will not be affected by dye. You will only notice a change in color with the icon itself. As for the runes themselves, a day of farming for minors and mayor is all I'll do to boost them. And green weapons I've got plenty to spare as is, I might switch them for gold ones as I get them from drops.

you don't HAVE to use your heroes.

buy your vigors now

assuming Heroes dont change much from Preview

- Heroes do *not* have their own inventory (they share yours)

- Heroes can use any PVE weapons you give them, Heroes can also use any weapons you customized for your character (its unknown if PVE heroes can use PVP weapons but I doubt it)

- the process of Runes are unknown (wasnt working during preview) but I assume PVE Heroes are restricted to PVE runes and PVP heroes are restricted to PVP runes.

Heroes as a money sink?

you bet !

Each of your characters will have access to a dozen heroes
(heroes are specific to your character - not your account)

if you have 6 characters - you could outfit as many as 70 heroes

http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...all/heros1.php

the items to get stuff from collectors is going to sky rocket as more people want those x amount of whatevers to get a wand/staff/shield/axe etc

As far as I am concerned, heroes won't be that expensive:
- Preorder/CE items
- Collector/Crafter Item
- Spare golds collecting dust in my stash
- Unused customized items from other PvE characters
- Cheap minor runes

I'm going to start accumulating random collectors' gear now. Wand + offhand for casters, since that way you save on staff mods... Weapon users are a bit more of a problem (get your cheap junk greens fast!), and I'd recommend stocking up on some of Defense hilts/wrappings as they are - and will be - a lot cheaper than giving everyone +30 Fortitude. Collector shields are, as always, fine.

...Fortunately, we all know Sundering sucks and we won't spend extortionate amounts on it. Right? Right?

I'd suggest (in planning) avoiding builds that require sup runes. Most Hero builds will be support anyway and won't need to squeeze every last drop of damage out of their attributes (MMs being a major exception, get your Sup Death runes fast!), so you're better off with the higher HP from minors only.

In other news, I think I'll reserve my toons' "bag 2"s for their future Hero gear and disable it in the shop menus...

Since your heroes are locked to each specific character, I would assume they can only use items customised to that toon, not your others.

I tested that during preview

Heroes cannot use a customized weapon from a different character

Like others have said already, why are you going to spend a ton of cash on a character you probably won't use half the time? I have already started saving up a few collectors items for my heroes, but in reality I'll probably only need my heroes on a few characters.

Equipping many heroes is optional


I plan to adventure with my existing 9 level 20s through Nightfall
- I want to gear at least 27 heroes (9 chars x3)

Heroes > Henchies for travelling thru content

I dont see why they pick up their share of drops, but then they cant use any of the drops they pick up. They get weapon drops, but i have to equip them.

What's gonna hurt is getting all the weapon mods. Collector's weapons will do the job obviously, but I know I'm gonna want that Cold Hilt, that Furious Haft, those mods for HP, +1 20%, Vampiric, Enchanting, Insightful, etc, etc and it's gonna seriously dent the gold pile. I'm not just gonna be running one build on each toon and I know it.

I'm wondering how the rune situation will work. . . if I want to change Koss from axe to hammer and back am I gonna have to buy a new Sup weapon rune every time?

PS. If I don't get more inventory space, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Man, if we could put customized weapons on heroes it would REALLY help.

I kinda suspected that much but hey, forcing the truth a little to make a point how bad could it possibly be?

Anyways collector stuff and cheap greens will probably get really popular but the rune market is the thing that concerns me the most (yeah, time to start stockpiling sup vigors )

Lets assume that about 500 000 people will get Nightfall (that's half a million folks) and say that they make all 4 characters and gear 3 heroes for each character. If my math isn't that far off we have suddenly created market for 6 million new characters. You can shoot my dog and call me Betty if that's not gonna put a little dent in the economy.

Okay, I've spent a couple of hours on guildwiki trolling through the collector entries, hunting for the best combination of mods + easily available drops (i.e. nothing that requires me to farm Frost Wurms).

...The compiled shopping list is pretty overwhelming, even with my straightforward needs and some cost-cutting. However, bear in mind that with Nightfall I'll have ten PvE toons... And that this doesn't count any drops aquired during Nightfall playthrough.

(For the record, this is to furnish all my characters bar the monk with 2x Boon Prots and an SS. The monk drops a BP for an axe warrior, and the lone Blood rune is to fuel Blood Ritual for my ele.)


The full list:

30 Runes of [best affordable] Vigor
19 Runes of Minor Divine Favor
19 Runes of Minor Protection Prayers
10 Runes of Minor Soul Reaping
10 Runes of Minor Curses
1 Rune of Minor Blood Magic
1 Rune of Minor Axe Mastery
1 Rune of Minor Strength
1 Rune of Minor Tactics
1 Rune of Superior Absorption

95 Jade Bracelets
95 Mountain Troll Tusks
55 Plague Idols
50 Vermin Hides
5 Black Pearls

1 Axe Grip of Defense
1 Furious or Cruel Axe Haft (cost-cutting measure!)

...and several excursions to a certain Mineral Springs collector.

We clearly will be getting a storage upgrade.

I cant foresee how it is possible for one character to hold its own equipment sets(Such as different Weapons and Armor) And hold the different equipment of 3 or possibly more (Most players will probably outfit all of their heroes.I know I will.)

Gaile already stated in the most recent in-game talk that she is unaware of and does not think there are any new storage upgrades planned at this time.

I think Areanet believes 2 things:
1. This will give you more space, as you'll place secondary weapons on your heros, not entirely new ones.
2. Why upgrade storage? If we keep it low, then people will be forced to buy more char slots from us to store things on, thus we make more money.

If the dupe feature (bug?) isn't fixed by NF release, I'll duplicate preorder and bonus weapons on *all* my heroes, and on all my characters. So all my caster heroes will get a Spiritbinder.

GW:F preorder staff:
10/10 generic
+5 energy
<spare wrappings>

As for the non-spellcasters, I'll probably use W/D and D/W with Wild Blow and I'll duplicate the GW:N preorder Icy Soulbreaker of Enchanting (15% enchanted).

This rudimentary equipment is free but better than the average non-solofarmed loot. Add a handful of non-perfect upgrades to round up the equipment and you're good to go. Honestly you don't really need anything better on most your heroes.

If you have spare funds/items and if your heroes need a buff, replace the scythe by something better/different, or replace a few generic spellbinders by collector/crafter profession-specific items: staff (+upgrades) or a focus/wand combo (I'm a fan of 2x 20/20 for most professions). And if you want to show off your wealth, buy top-of-the-line greens or rare-skinned golds.

To avoid hero redundancy, you'll want to equip 3 more heroes per character, and may be 5 more to ensure a full compatibility with your team mate's heroes. So you'll basically have to equip 60/80 heroes total. Happy farming.

If they don't give us more room somehow...I don't see myself taking many characters through Nightfall to pickup Heros...

Its completely retarded to give 1 character access to 7-8 Heros (Gotta assume 7-8 outta the 12, since some you cant have if you pick another, like the two students Sousuke and Jin) that they have to equip with weapons and shields/offhands, but not give us any space to store these weapons and shields/offhands.

I'd also like to rant alittle about Heros taking drops...when they share your inventory. They take my gold, and my potential weapon drops, then at the end of the day I have to BUY stuff for them and Furnish their weapons.

As for what I'm doing, I guess I'll stack up 1 character with collectors stuff, and Buy a few minor Vigors, cause you know for like a week after release minor vigors will be like 5k, major like 10k, and sups like 60k. I got materials for my characters, unlike with Factions, cause you know from factions that any materials used by the new characters armor will be like 300-500gp per 10pile at the trader.

They do give you storage space, once Nightfall is out you will be able to store all your heros weapons and offhands or whatnot on the heros themselves.

Heroes come Equipped with Gear and no Runes


its up to you if you want to change their gear

they come with low end gear, and their AL changes with their level. You'll only have to give them better weapons, and they will hold them so you won't have to store the item when your hero isn't using it.

Only things heroes get are the collectors weapons i'm not using.

although I believe this to be true, Id like to know exactly how you 'tested' this?

step 1, get guildmate to customize item and give it to you, step two, attempt to equip it to your hero.

I used 2 accounts for the preview
(one account was used just to pass things back and forth)

Both my Ranger and Derv were created on the same account



my Ranger bought a Req7 Axe from the Weapons Crafter in the 3rd mission Outpost --- for Koss

the weapon was customized by my Ranger so it would do 20% more damage


I also Created a Derv Character
- I gave my Ranger Axe to the Derv so that my "new" Koss could use it

the Derv Koss was unable to equip it

You can still use henchies if you don't like heroes...

This way would be very logical. The pvp based players can equip their heroes using their unlocks. Pve players might not have the unlocks but they'll have the money to afford the upgrades.

Just think for a second, heroes are already gonna take the number of pug groups down to nil, imagine if they didn't take your drops? Guildmates wouldn't even group with each other anymore.

Personally after thinking about how the heroes will work, i went out and bought 9 Superior Absorption Runes @ 420g EA for the 9 version of Koss i will have and 9 Major Vigor Runes @ 3.9k EA for him(s). Then i remembered that i will have 2 other heros: 1 PC + 3 Heros = 9 X 3 = 27 characters that will need Runes at a minimum.

Guess that takes care 9 Koss Hero version type, now i will have to find the space for the rest of the 18.....

I remembered Prior to Factions release when we were debating about Mega Alliances that will be formed and stuffing causal gamers and guilds, while during that time on VGM Jeff Strain mentions that in "the next chapter-NF" for example a player who wants to play a warrior and want to go at it alone can do so and there will be methods put in place for him-Heros. I was partly confused then when i heard that and though: Isnt that what henchman are for??

Anyways Perhaps the implementation of Heros is also Anet's way of addressing causal players ( great in theory, but is a logistical nightmare in practice-not bashing, in fact i love Heros) and also the massive debates we had before about cookie cutter builds in groups and how some classes are neglected or cant into groups if anyone remembered.

As for some issues Heros may bring about would be:

1) Since the Strength of Hero depends mostly on the individual unlocks and no doubt everyone will believe that their Hero build is the most Leet, arugements when deciding who's hero to bring for a particular mission such as : "MY HEROS ARE BETTER THAN YOURS!" within PuGs and perhaps guild members may become a problem in less tightly knitted guilds and become a source of internal Elistism-i pray this will never happen.

2) This current system (if unchanged) for Heros greatly benefits the more experienced Players since we had over 17 months+ to unlock skills through play. Those new to Guild Wars itself playing just the NF PvE component may find that even though they have Heros who join them, but in more diffcult missions and quest they may feel that they dont have the appropriate skills and though some may be inclined to buy unlock packs in the online store, others will grind to unlock skills in what ever way they can, but the general decline in experienced players in PuGs (we all know how much we hate PuGing) will systematically weed out most new players who play causally over time. - I believe FrogDevourer is also addressing this in a different thread in these forum section but since i am here with this i though i bring more attention to this rant.

3) In constrast to Factions where large guilds are promoted, in Nightfall smaller and more causal guilds are encouraged with the introduction of Heros for experienced players (technically now a couple can form their own guild and just play with themselves without interacting with anyone else around them: (1+3)*2). What this may translate into is the decrease of high quality players avaible for recruitment but also a great influx of newer players looking for guilds that will help them to unlock-which in this case will most likely to be looking for PvP guilds if they are smart about it. But this also means some PvE guilds may have more problems looking for the right sort of players to attract into their guild should they chose to expand in Nightfall. IMO this is also a very stuble move by Anet to encourage players to PvP under the guise of PvE implementation.

New players don't have to unlock all the skills, they just need to unlock the ones needed for good/popular builds. In PvE, especially as a new player, you don't need to be particularly versatile.

Nah, if someone else's heroes are on par with mine - or, God forbid, better - then he's clearly good enough (as am I) that the two of us won't need anything beyond the standard hench spread.

...And if I'm genuinely PuGging, two monk slots is the maximum that would be filled by Heroes anyway.

...unless theyre preorder weapons ;P

Heroes will be a (minor) gold sink only when you'll equip them with items from crafters. And only then. (runes may count aswell, but thet're very cheap except vigors)
If you decide to 'pimp your Koss' with a perfect gold something you bought for 100k+xx ecto is not a gold sink as you simply bought it from anoter player -> the money hasn't left the economy.

Big news! Double green drops weekend is coming. My farming sense is tingling. Makes you think Anet is encouraging us to prepare ourselves? In any case it would be kinda nice if heroes could get their equipment through questing. Even now there was information that gameplay can affect the look of hero armor. So couldn't equipment rewards like in pre/post-searing Ascalon be full well possible?

Of course, your own characters do too. You have perfectly fine starter armor and weapons - it is your choice to upgrade them if you want. Heck, the heros are a step above this in that thier armor upgrades by itself.

I do not see why they can not have henchie grade stuff as a minimum. That includes weapons and skills. If you want *above* hench grade stuff that is your choice - but the "heroes" shouldn't be less than henchies.

For the most part I have enough for myself. I have enough that they are superior to henchies and can outfit them in time. Other than runes everything is trasferable around unless you customize it - which I do not on expensive stuff to begin with.

For established characters, even at the elevated levels crafter/collector weapons are cheap. It takes little time to farm for them (so little time if you call that grind your day is miserable - I "grind" more time out brushing my teeth and hair everyday for way less reward. Unless you have the "easy button" from the commercials you are in for a unhappy life). You should also already have the unlocks neccesary just by playing the game. The only real issue may be runes and we have not seen how they are handled yet (unlocks, purchase, or both?).

For new people I feel for them. It will probably be confusing why the hero's are elevated above henchies. But pretty much none of those complaining here are new. For us they are nothing less than an improvement (even if you will not use them).

I believe heroes do - as appropiate for their starting level

Example:
Get Koss at level 1 or 2, all he has is starting char sword / shield

Get Monks around level 6 and they had wands with Req6

at level 16 I did the Ranger Hero quest - and was given a level 11 Ranger but neglected to look at her default bow


Heroes you get on the Starting Island have poor gear because their weapons do not get better as they level (unless you help)

Level 20 Heroes, on the mainland, can be assumed to have gear appropiate for level 20 Henchmen.