Change to Heroes' Ascent

If I were one of the a-net staff who came out with the Nightfall skills this 6 v 6 would be like a slap in the face.A lot of the skills seem to counter fotm s nicely.Angelic protection>bloodspike(maybe) and other spikes to a point.More dazed options.More cond removal or immunity to conditions(Dervish).Will people be forced to play the new classes while ignoring the old ones?Guarantee there would have been a lot of the new class types in 8v8 along with support classes which there will be no room for in 6v6.

FLAME, hehe, you're the typical example that why newbie do not participate in hoh. Your excuses are full of crap. couple hours is more than enough. You tell me that your guidie/alliance on the same boat, and you say you cant get in group? why don't you play with them? not enough? "guild group lf xxx" you form groups in no time. Cant win? cant gain fame? Oh no, you don't play to gain fame, you lose nothing when you lose. If you affraid of losing, you will never win. Abusive? how so? a Rank9+ group that slaughter your noob group? They taught you guys a lesson. They got slaughtered alot more times than your group before becoming this good. Got mock for fame farming? no, you don't play iway to farm fame, you play iway to learn hoh. You do not play for fame, you play for fun. If you find no fun losing, i'm sorry, competitive gaming isnt for you. But I'm sure you will lose alot more and get abuse alot more in your life. END FLAME.

6v6 will not change a thing for you. You wont get in high rank groups, you still lose to good groups, if you call that abusive, then you are a loser.

this is going to kick butt!!

this is going to kick butt!!

I am an adament pvp player and i like this change looking into the future a month this will end up being really fun and figuring i hate all forms of iway (vim too). As for the gimmick builds they will always be here but with the 6v6 people have to think out of the box, for the first month I know we will see the gimmicks but those go out on NFs release vims and iway for example. and second the elitism so what the r9+ they will be just a noob with the new maps and the new builds so thats fine too i dont mind if my r5 almost 6 was a kind of waste this will prove more of a challenge which i really have been waiting for. As far as the people that hate this, why? cant you adjust or are you upset at being a noob again, or is it the fact that you think that HA should only be for the elitist. Plus most of the spike (gimmick) builds listed, so far, all are going to be weaker with 6v6 even a 6 monk stall can easily be dealt with and with NF easier plus those that want a 8v8 pvp field NF has 2 more pvp one of which is for heros the other is not listed so there may be a new 8v8 and HA needed to be modded (helping the nerf of some of the 8v8 builds) it is dull and boring with the same old builds used over and over and with the gimmick builds with 6v6 they will have multiple weaknesses so still no problem

Equally there maybe balance issuses, with Dervish/Paragon with 8v8 that are perticually unbalanced due to HA, and the way people use that would ruin the game, and thus the better course of action is to 6v6 it.

I just can't wait for the whines about, why doesn't my gimmik work in GvG type threads, I swear I'll be roflmao.

Don't tell, will there be 15 pages of "whine" "you're a whiner" "noob" posts as well? Rofl @ this thread.

- "contributes to the spamfest" Xeeron

me to

i have two view points on this
patches happen weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

or
patches happen cry moar

after i saw this thead going a bit i went and looked at the possible new nightfall skills that are for the normal 6 proffesions
of them there's going to be one monk skill that reduces spell cost of healing spells between 2 to 7 i'm assuming it tops at 10 with 16 in healling teaming that with devine boon would casue massive amounts of cheap high heals.

the other skill that looked rather intresting to me was Mind burn making elements able to be able to energy deneil simular to energy surge but very spamible.

i'm not saying that these 2 elites would make blood spike and double smite from running over 6v6 i'm just saying there might be some other less happy builds that are going to come out of the wood works that people will have to coap with.

Yeah I like reading whines, when there complaining about something that hurts them, and benifts me

To be dead honest there are quite better posts, but continuing on. If you cannot find a group for 8v8 odds are better that you can for 6v6. Lower numbers easier competition. Like I said for every 24 players there are now 4 teams compared to 3.

Yet that is where the higher consensus of complaints are.

See this is where I agree and don't agree. How far can "gimmick" builds go with 16 less skills? You need actual skill now for bloodspike, ranger spike, Iway is going to be less effective, Thumpers are less effective, smiters are less effective.. it seems this change was planned for a long period of time. I truly don't think there will be anything "gimmick" about this new format

Exaggeration is not within reason, the first statement you make is a pure prediction of the future. If you have this gift why are you sitting down on your chair, typing on this message board?... Proper grammar ftw

Both options? I think the idea is blatant, the community isn't numerous enough to support such an idea.

Alright I'm going to try and read this 8 times.... ok done. I still don't know what your talking about. I suggest putting this text into Microsoft sam while your wasted and have a laugh. Your ideas are completely unorganized and hardly legible. So I'm going to address the issues you mention in the English I have learnt over the past 20 years.

First off, the "newb" issue has once again been brought up. I'm sure we can just leave this topic dead. It's a communal "despute" in every game "they ruin this!" "They messed me up!" point being people complain, need to learn, enjoy playing different parts of the game; lets leave it at that.

First off I'm sure during development HoH was never MEANT to be complicated. It got complicated, (if it did) through experimentation and counteracting other known "builds"

Heck while were at this I'll give a small definition

Build- A specific organized way for "X" players to organize their skills+attributes to win and defeat others in specific methods that is unique to other opposing "X" players

Yes some "builds" infact need voice communication compared to typing due to the convinience of voice communication is much simpler then typing+co-ordinating within the game.

I'm also quite sure that when they do this update which should be relatively soon that in some way the "Ghostly Hero" gets an update on him as well. Im sure the 6v6 environment will change how people play, interact, and think of new "builds" will be completely different from here on in. Not only because of the 6v6 but the maps, and the limitations on powerful combinations now at hand. You my friend have no logical reasoning to defend your #5 category on this debate you are definitely the red headed step child abuser of builds.

Please excuse my poor command of the English language. It's no where near my native language. I hope that doesnt mean I'm not welcomed here.

1. Read your statement again, does not make any sense.
If you cannot find a group for 8v8 (8 slots per team) odds are better that you can for 6v6 (6 slots per team). What? logical?
Lower numbers easier competition? what? lower competition for smaller amount of "resouces"?
Like I said for every 24 players there are now 4 teams compared to 3.
That's still 24 slots.

The reason people cannot find team is not team size, it's rank discrimination. 6v6 will not change that.

2. that's not my complain. People who are 2 should read my statement.

3. Again it does not make sense. Gimmick build happens because there are 16 extra skills? I didnt mean existing gimmick builds will work in 6v6. Also if you look at it, the "counter-gimmick" build has 16 less extra skill as well, so gimmic build will still exist.

4. Since 6v6 does not fix any of the problems noted above, how is it different than the 8v8 hoh? it is safe to expect the 6v6 will share the same fate as the 8v8

5. There is nothing else I can do other than posting my opinion.

I tell you what, I love 6v6. I will play it a lot. I'm fully support it because it will be no less fun than the old 8v8.

But I will miss the 8v8 hoh. It was a training ground for gvg. It is the only 8v8 pvp for me and those who is not in a pvp guild. I miss playing/vs iway, bspike, w/e fotm. Not because it's good fame or for abusing newbie. Because it's fun.

I'm pretty sure rainbow spike is still going to be possible. Ranger spike, definitely.

It maybe fun to you, but it isn't anywhere near fun for those that hate gimmiks, for those that play fare with some sort of balance to there build to be fare, to the other team and to themselfs so that both sides have a chance of winning, or losing, which is what balance is all about, when you bring in a gimmik you ruin all that because a team trying to be fare and have a good game that is balanced and fare, just gets rolled, that doesn't mean that there bad it just means that your exploiting over powered pile of poo, and you've no idea how to play the game past pressing, 1 & 2 keys.

As far as I am concerned if you want to go play gimmik, go do it in Barbie's playhouse or something, anything just get your whinning rear end out of GW, because you don't belong here.

You are completely ignoring the group politics and organization.
With less players to manage it's faster to organize the group.
And with less total players there's less likely to be friction between players. There's 28 '1on1' relationships in 8v8, versus only 15 in 6v6. Thus there will overall be about half as much opportunity for discrimination in 6v6 than in 8v8.

Yes, there's still going to be discrimination, but it's only going to be half as bad as it currently is, and with smaller teams people will waste less time waiting for the other teammates to join/be ready.

Gimmic builds are caused by the 'Overwhelming offense' metagame in HA.
With 8 players that have nothing else to do than slaughtering the enemy team, teams can kill an enemy player very fast very easily with little options for the enemy team to protect itself. With so many options available to overwhelm a balanced defense, balanced builds just can't bring enough hard counters to counter all those offensive builds, and the flexible counters are alot harder to use than the offensive builds themselves.

Remove 2 players and it should become alot harder (or alot less easy) to spike(/overwhelm) an enemy, thus defense and counters should become alot more viable and gimmick builds should be less prevalent.

Presumptuous statement. You do not KNOW what 6v6 does and doesn't. Wait till you actually have some experience about the subject before making any affirmations.

I hope the "you" is not meant for me as an individual if you have read my entire post. What makes you think there will not be the same CRAP gimmick in 6v6? maybe not iway, but vimway, no spike but degen. So what? people who want to win will play gimmicks. I don't see anything wrong with builds like that. If you have to play their build in order to beat them, then that's your problem, or the problem with a certain broken skills, not the team size.

I got a new point. I find that the timing of this change being extremely bad. Anyone else feeling the same? With nightfall due out in 20 days, it will shake hoh when there are new skills and new classes. There will be counters for all the gimmick builds. Why not do one change at a time? now nightfall skills and new classes will never see the 8v8 hoh. Cant believe that the preview event was the last time the new classes and new skills used in 8v8. Don't you want to try a few builds in hoh 8v8? now you cant! thanks anet.

Don't get me wrong, I will enjoy 6v6, i will not quit or whatever. I will continue to run gimmick/anti gimmick builds in 6v6 and screw all of you noobs who thinks that you will see new life in hoh. If you don't like hoh now, you will not like it even it's 6v6. It's the skills and the structure of hoh that needs change. Not the team size. Changing the team size will not correct a single problem in hoh.

1. Thanks for the explanation, much better than the previous poster's post.
I aggree with less conflict between players in smaller groups. But I have no clue why you say 6v6 has HALF the opportunity of rank discrimination. For any ranked group, someone unranked wants in, group saids no. It doesnt matter what size of the group does it? and 8 people group has an advantage because it needs more player. So if a r6+ looking for a last slot, but cant find a fellow r6, so lower req to r3. That happens more with the 8 man group than the 6 man group.

2. Gimmick build are cause by massive OFFENSE? um....was spirit spaming a gimick group? those spriits eat people? You lowered the offense with 6 people, you also lower the defense as well as SPECIFIC counters. For example, 8v8 favors spikes, so spikes are gimmick build in 8v8. 6v6 favors degens and slower pace game play. But again, gimmick builds does and will exist in 6v6, Just look at vimway during the 6v6 weekend.

As for the prediction for 6v6, it's a prediction. I still feel that they do not need to get rid of the 8v8 right now. Look at my last post, nightfall coming out in 20 days, it will bring new life in 8v8 hoh, now we do not have a chance to see that change. We have LOST the opportunity to use nightfall skills and classes in 8v8 hoh.

That's the bigest load of horse crap I've ever read, I should not have have to roll a dice and hope that my gimmik will be unbeatable for however long it takes to get to the hall & or hold the hall, I should be worried about if I've brought along enough X and Y skills to be able with stand a suitable fight worth remembering.

If the skills are broken that's a fault of ArenaNet for not listening to the bloody alpha testers, and instead listening to a pack of Charr slaying PvE nubs.

Team size is broken if X amount of dmg output is greater than what any monk(s) can heal, or react too. as is the case with 8v8 HA the dmg output is way over powered on some builds, 1 second reaction time is hardly time to even cast before something is dead, on some builds.

OK, you win, 6v6 gvg next. 8v8 is broken.

Wohooo! :d

GvG is more complex that HA. In GvG teams commonly split, they usually have a flag runner, and you automatically rez from the relative safely of your base.

It never occured to you that Arenanet made this change to HA because of the stagnant metagame? GvG's metagame actually is a metagame, it's always changing. HA's metagame hasn't changed much in a long time. The change to the gametype was to shake it up a bit.

I know, but according to someone above, 8v8 is broken because 8 people can do dmg that ONE monk cannot heal. GG

I've been trying to save judgment until it actually happened and now that it happened - ugh. Smites everywhere so far.

Maybe I should wait a few days in hopes that the smites will calm down and people will actually start thinking to put together builds.

Not pleased.

I'll admit that being able to test things out in HA is kinda nice. However, any decent guild will be able to afford the temporary lowering of their rank. Once they find a build that works they will make that rank back. Also its one more aspect of finding an alliance. You can setup scrimmages with your alliance mates, or if your guild is large enough just scrimmage yourselves. I don't think it will hurt anyone too much.

Yeah, I'm feeling it too.

Guess it's back to the testing again. Ugh ...

Wow, they canned another map and made small useless changes to others.

Brilliant work, Anet.

Welcome to Smiteway.

Them ditching the one map was fine. Changing Scarred Earth is great. There's no more standing there watching two amazingly poor teams take 15 minutes to kill eachother, just so you can roll the remaining team in 60 seconds or less.

The changes to Courtyard were OK. People start fighting earlier. It didn't do anything to reduce the politics > skill angle of this map though, which is lame. Turning Broken Tower into Courtyard is also very lame...

All in all, I'm not very impressed with the 'exciting' new changes to the maps...

I came online this morning. Had a cup of coffee, sat down my sorry ass on my chair afraid of what to become. There it was...a Guild Wars update. Fortunately, it didn't take long to download and decompress. "Such a small update can't be new maps and 6v6 HA yet, no way!".

I was thrilled with that thought. I thought I was still going to be able to do one last run of 8v8 HA. Went into HA and there it was: 1/6 players. Grrrr....
I went to check observe and saw the thing I feared most: the builds.
Obviously, all that was being played was Dual Smite, Condition degenbuild and ViM.

Then I saw the maps, too. Scarred Earth seemed pretty nice now. Wish I could say that about the rest. Why did they remove Burial Mounds to start off with? I thought there were going to be new maps as well. Has anyone seen them yet? I haven't.

Bye proper Heroes Ascent, I'll miss you. Hope you come back to visit us some day again...

There are no new maps. They reduced Courtyard to 6 minutes, and turned Broken Tower into a clone of Courtyard... Other than that, they made Scarred Earth a bit nicer, and got rid of Burrial Mounds. That's the extent of the changes.

why wouldn't you be able to test things out? Before, you traded your flagger for another monk. Now, you're ditching the flagger and one offensive character.

Yeah, Anet has a strange definition of the term "new". I will now go put a sticker on my car and sell it as "new" too.

I was considering trying out other pvp then the occasional RA, but after reading all this acidous crap i think i stick to admiring landscapes and collecting items.

People who take a game serious = Disgrace to humanity

Those changes are horrible.

Everyone hates Courtyard, so they leave it in and then make a previously good map (Broken Tower) be a clone of the most hated map ever in order to double the players' aggravation.

Taking Burial Mounds out is likewise horrible, that map was great.

None of these are "improvements" in my view. Quite the opposite actually.

Nowhere was it officially stated there would be new maps

Agreed on Courtyard and Broken Tower. They absolutly suck.

Agreed that there was no point to taking out Burial Mounds. Oh, and they really did take it out for some reason... I think that we can live without it, though, even though it was a perfectly good map that had absolutly no issue with it what so ever...

The only thing that *is* at least IMO sortof an improvment is Scarred Earth. Now you don't have to wait 15 minutes for two amazingly poor teams to duke it out so you can win, you can just kill both of them. Although, I haven't been on the recieving end of a gank yet, so I imagine that it's both going to be a good, and bad change...

All in all I give ANET a score of doing it 1/8th right, for the changes they made at least...

any newbie find easier to get in good groups and easier to win? vim, smite, condition/degens gimmick builds ftw =.='' gg anet. This is not a better hoh is it

You can't really expect a metagame after just a few hours.

VIM is trash. People are only running it because IWAY doesn't scale well in 6 vs 6.

As for smite and pressure builds, what's wrong with them? They pretty much fit under the category of balanced you know. They're alot better than Blood Spike, IWAY, Ele Spike, and more Bood Spike, too.

As for newer players, 6 vs 6 helps them only by making groups easier to form.

I like the changes

Made it more interesting

In your dreams. 16v8 situations don't make it take more skill, it just makes luck a bigger factor. No amount of skill will save you in 16 v 8 situation if they actually are all attacking just your team.
Blah blah blah. These guilds were using GvG builds in HA, that's why they lost. We had the same problem, our guild leader insisted that we tested GvG builds in HA, which pretty much meant we got owned. And of course here you are expecting that people who don't play HA, start completely owning it up the moment they start playing there. Besides many top guilds like RenO and WM completely own HA every time they show up.