Anyone else notice the increasing amounts of powerful spike groups in recent weeks? I don't believe I've seen as many since early on in GW.
The spikes are now highly-refined, with twists such as Me/W running 'Shields Up' chains, more powerful Ranger Spikes and some really twisted, evil and highly-effective Rainbow Spikes.
I'm seeing top-20 balanced-build guilds in obs mode reduced to shreds in less than 4 minutes from some of these spikes. Some are simply resigning after 2-3 minutes.
My questions to the esteemed audience here: Is Spike the new metagame? Beyond one's quest for knowledge, does it even pay to learn to do anything beyond 3-2-1-spike in GW anymore?
Spike - The New (again) Metagame?
Denny Pace
Dahnel
Spiking is a very powerful and valuable tactic to have at your disposal in guild wars wether its during a battle for the flag stand or as you attempt to cap the altar, but beyond the actualy spikes i have'nt seen many of these "Fotm Rainbow spikes" doing much pressure and are'nt unfeatable.
cry of the rapture
good infuser = gg for 98% of the spikes out there
Venom4112
The spikes will be screwed after the 6v6 HA patch is implemented.
Opeth
in gvg:
if the other team is a spike team...you just split....
if the other team is a spike team...you just split....
Tozen
I don't think we'll ever see spiking go away, but I bet it is going to become a lot more concentrated into fewer, harder hitting players instead of large groups due to the 6v6 HA change.
Maybe my Assassin will get to have some fun in HA after all
Maybe my Assassin will get to have some fun in HA after all
-Loki-
In GvG, spiking has become more common again. However, very few guilds running a spike will be able to split and still spike effectively, and there's a few counters you can run that really decimate a spikes power. I remember our first game against Ephemeral Sanity, who have a really brutal spike... until we used Shields Up!, and their spike power was cut. I've heard they can split and still spike, but they never did it against us.
Spiking is, and always will be, a good way to rack up alot of wins. It's quick and few teams in this metagame prepare for a spike. But again, they can be easy to shut down (easier than a pressure build) and generally one hard counter will kill alot of the spikes killing power.
Spiking is, and always will be, a good way to rack up alot of wins. It's quick and few teams in this metagame prepare for a spike. But again, they can be easy to shut down (easier than a pressure build) and generally one hard counter will kill alot of the spikes killing power.
Blind Rage
the meta game has and always will be " noob hate and elitist attidutes"
Arcador
Spike was here since UO preAos meta. There it was somehow invented - and it was very common in the good guilds. You don't deliver dmg on the spot - enemy can heal.
Spike will remain the most eficient way to kill in all games that have direct dmg things. I've seen some war3 players spike too.
Now almost every guild got spike, I've seen even some smiting monk bring banish or similar skill to help the spike.
Spike will remain the most eficient way to kill in all games that have direct dmg things. I've seen some war3 players spike too.
Now almost every guild got spike, I've seen even some smiting monk bring banish or similar skill to help the spike.
Xasew
Obsidian Spike has become a bit more popular, because in 8v8 it's quite hard to kill anything against all those Wards. And with Resolve+Stability, the only effective interrupts are Psychic Distraction and Power Block, which aren't that common.
With the 20 minute VoD, it's quite common that against a split they send 5 spikers and a Monk in the enemy base to clear the outer NPCs+Knights, which are easily lured out, while a Monk and the runner keep the enemy from killing their Bodyguard+Knights. After that they turtle or keep that position until VoD if their defence isn't in trouble and with equal NPCs or even slight advantage, it's likely for them to win if they play it right. This isn't that hard to counter, but outside the top 50 there aren't that many guilds who know how to handle it.
With the 20 minute VoD, it's quite common that against a split they send 5 spikers and a Monk in the enemy base to clear the outer NPCs+Knights, which are easily lured out, while a Monk and the runner keep the enemy from killing their Bodyguard+Knights. After that they turtle or keep that position until VoD if their defence isn't in trouble and with equal NPCs or even slight advantage, it's likely for them to win if they play it right. This isn't that hard to counter, but outside the top 50 there aren't that many guilds who know how to handle it.
romO
Spike became popular again because the metagame had shifted to KGYU-esque builds, which have little defense. It's not nearly as powerful as it was last year because back then, EVERYONE ran it, including the top teams, simply because no one knew how to beat it. After people developed strategies against it, people stopped running it and the meta evolved. The players that were around back then will know how to counter it through smash-mouth pressure and although it may work to an extent these days, people are much smarter now than they were back then and it really won't make it to the top.
And I'm just going to point out a couple of misconceptions about spike that have already been posted in this thread:
Any team splitting against a spike will lose the vast majority of the time. Spike teams generally have the opportunity to send a monk and a very defensive runner to deal with a split, and due to the nature and power of their spike, will still kill with ease at the stand with a reasonable amount of defense through the support skills of the spikers and the remaining monk. The best strategy against a spike build is generally to disrupt their spike and out-pressure them at the stand.
Against a good spike team, there is no way for even the godliest infuser to catch many of the spikes without any disruption. Eventually, targets will accrue DP and those players will be taken out of the game. Without support, your team is just asking to die.
And I'm just going to point out a couple of misconceptions about spike that have already been posted in this thread:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Opeth
in gvg:
if the other team is a spike team...you just split.... |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cry of the rapture
good infuser = gg for 98% of the spikes out there
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Kaycee
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Opeth
in gvg:
if the other team is a spike team...you just split.... |
Mostly rank 200+ guilds split, and when they do its pretty much GG, because the spike damage can easily out pressure the 1 monk they leave behind.
pigdestroyer
spike teams are really hard to beat. people are getting better at it, thats why a lot of gvg spike guilds are in the top 50
and as someone said splitting doesnt does much, if you send for example 2 wars to the base, they will send a monk and probably an ele runner, making your wiping npc efforts worthless, as romO said your best bet its fight at the stand, and pressure them... though it is a hard task
and as someone said splitting doesnt does much, if you send for example 2 wars to the base, they will send a monk and probably an ele runner, making your wiping npc efforts worthless, as romO said your best bet its fight at the stand, and pressure them... though it is a hard task
Aejorii
Agreed. Splitting against a spike is relying on the fact that your opponents will split their spike characters with you, deducting their damage. If they just send a monk and a defensive runner to "hold off" the split, then the spike team will just roll your remaining forces at the stand and move on. Once you aqquire DP, it's all downhill from there..
Doikor
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Originally Posted by pigdestroyer
and as someone said splitting doesnt does much, if you send for example 2 wars to the base, they will send a monk and probably an ele runner, making your wiping npc efforts worthless, as romO said your best bet its fight at the stand, and pressure them... though it is a hard task
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heist23
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cry of the rapture
good infuser = gg for 98% of the spikes out there
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When it comes down to it, the best option is to play your hardest at the stand and hope to God that their monks crack before your DP maxes out.
I Brother Bloood I
Theres some crazy spikes out there... but with 2 blessed escapers u can easily counter them with just spirit bond and prot spirit its just that easy but hard to coordinate with some lower level people. A good balanced team can beat a spike ive seen it done numerous times and once by yours truly... Its perfectly easy to counter spikes it just depends on damage output and monking. The only reason spikes are used is there not that hard to do. You can do a spike by typing 3, 2, 1. Yah thats ghetto but it still gets the job done. And if spiking became a problem thats nothing a Bonder + 2 Boons/Blessed cant solve. (Although ur on ur own for dmg)
P.S. Shelter is nice for spikes.
P.S. Shelter is nice for spikes.
Dodo The Extinct
With Nightfall, I can see some really nasty spike builds coming out.
*cough* Hypochondria *cough*
*cough* Hypochondria *cough*
KitsunE81
A spike is the most efficient way to kill a person, everyone does 3-2-1-spike in GW, balanced builds, but even degen builds (sometimes), the best counter is to play strategically well, you see an Obsidian Flame? interrupt it, divert it, knock him down, do whatever you can. You see a Lightning Orb coming you're way? Dodge it. You see a Warrior running you're way? run away, ask for protection.
Monks can't do it all, if you don't help them you'll lose rather quickly against a good timed spike, remember, not every spike can be saved if their timing is perfect and that usually happans if all their damage output goes through.
Monks can't do it all, if you don't help them you'll lose rather quickly against a good timed spike, remember, not every spike can be saved if their timing is perfect and that usually happans if all their damage output goes through.
The Real Roy Keane
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Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct
With Nightfall, I can see some really nasty spike builds coming out.
*cough* Hypochondria *cough* |
KitsunE81
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Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane
They're as likely to leave Hypochondria the way it was as they are to leave Signet of Might the way it was.
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Denny Pace
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Originally Posted by romO
Spike became popular again because the metagame had shifted to KGYU-esque builds, which have little defense. It's not nearly as powerful as it was last year because back then, EVERYONE ran it, including the top teams, simply because no one knew how to beat it. After people developed strategies against it, people stopped running it and the meta evolved. The players that were around back then will know how to counter it through smash-mouth pressure and although it may work to an extent these days, people are much smarter now than they were back then and it really won't make it to the top.
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Maybe I'm just getting a little frustrated seeing the proliferation and success of something I find relatively skill-less (spiking) as compared to successfully running a well-tuned balanced build. I don't know. The good news, I guess, is that Nightfall is coming soon, and people like me who might need a GvG break will have some PvE to entertain themselves with.
Theus
*sigh*
Spikes wouldn't matter if it wasnt for the fact that Shelter,Union, and Rituallord were raped..
Spikes wouldn't matter if it wasnt for the fact that Shelter,Union, and Rituallord were raped..
unmatchedfury
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Originally Posted by Theus
*sigh*
Spikes wouldn't matter if it wasnt for the fact that Shelter,Union, and Rituallord were raped.. |
nerfing rit lord was like asking for moee spikes in the metagame.
Phoenix Arrows
Yea, Hypochondria is so going to get nerfed. Or else it becomes Hypochondria spike 
. 2-3 Frag Mesmers, 4 Monks, Runner. Each has Hypo
crimsonfilms
ES spike/split is pretty simple. Send the monk back and the E/Mo runner with blind. Turtle up and let the outside NPCs die - protect the inner NPCs.
The offense then just spikes through the remaining monk. Like all splits they will eventually they will push you back and spike your NPC down with ease (especially since they are not on your party list).
Unless your split offense team can kill the monk and E/Mo fast, ES and similar builds will likely get to your lord before your split will with theirs.
Tommy is right. You have to take down their offense. Take down a ranger or the Phantom Pain Mesmer. This will prevent most of their spike by nature.
As Evil have shown, the best defense is offense with spike.
Depending on your infuser as your spike defense is a mistake of most non high-level guilds. Even the best infuser in the game will not catch all the spikes. And once the DP accrues - no infuse will save you. Not to mention pre-proting is just Shatter bait.
The offense then just spikes through the remaining monk. Like all splits they will eventually they will push you back and spike your NPC down with ease (especially since they are not on your party list).
Unless your split offense team can kill the monk and E/Mo fast, ES and similar builds will likely get to your lord before your split will with theirs.
Tommy is right. You have to take down their offense. Take down a ranger or the Phantom Pain Mesmer. This will prevent most of their spike by nature.
As Evil have shown, the best defense is offense with spike.
Depending on your infuser as your spike defense is a mistake of most non high-level guilds. Even the best infuser in the game will not catch all the spikes. And once the DP accrues - no infuse will save you. Not to mention pre-proting is just Shatter bait.
Doikor
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Originally Posted by cry of the rapture
good infuser = gg for 98% of the spikes out there
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KitsunE81
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Originally Posted by Doikor
Many of the top lvl guilds dont evin take infuse due to it being an incredible waste of energy. (Or atlest thats what our monk(s) say)
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romO
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Originally Posted by Doikor
Many of the top lvl guilds dont evin take infuse due to it being an incredible waste of energy. (Or atlest thats what our monk(s) say)
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Infuse health isn't even for pure spike teams, necessarily. I was using it on my BL bar just to be ready for unforeseen warrior damage on targets that were unable to be pre-protted. It works amazingly in that situation, and against the pure spikes that are being mentioned, it is the best heal you can ask for. After the infuse, your spiked teammate is at full health and you need to spend another ten energy to heal yourself back up. Assuming you use energy management well and the other team is not spiking every three seconds (trust me, they won't be), you aren't going to be having energy problems. I think it's a lot more safe as well, not having to rely on reversals of fortune, booned or not, against any type of spike. Even if you catch the initial damage, the target can still die, especially versus necro spike. Also, rofs will not bring your teammate back up to full health, so you are going to have to spend at least ten (rof+goh+devo), fourteen (booned rof+goh), nineteen (booned ps/sb+rof), or twenty (ps/sb+rof+goh) energy to heal them back up to full in order to not let them to be susceptible to future spikes. That's not such a big difference from using infuse, and even if the only reason you bring it is for pure spikes, the miniscule amounts of additional energy should be very much worth the security you get from it.
Celios
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Originally Posted by unmatchedfury
the main reason that the spikes are growing is because everyone knows that Rit lords arn't going to be run. So eve nteh nerfed protection rit lords provide is almost garanteed NOT to be their.
nerfing rit lord was like asking for moee spikes in the metagame. |
Bring back Shelter. With Tombs going to 6v6, it's obvious spikes aren't going to be nearly as popular there. All this nerf has done is hurt the standard of play in GvG, where rits weren't really a problem to begin with.
Yanman.be
Echo oath shot shelter!!!!!oneoneoneone
Legendary Shiz
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Originally Posted by cry of the rapture
good infuser = gg for 98% of the spikes out there
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Age
I believe Spike will always be part of the metagame unless there are changes.
CHUIU
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Originally Posted by Doikor
Many of the top lvl guilds dont evin take infuse due to it being an incredible waste of energy. (Or atlest thats what our monk(s) say)
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