Opinions & Advice on New Computer

Well I just can't take playing on this 5 year old Dell, with 1ghz Pentium 3, 512MB RAM (which is the max it can hold) and GeForce 4 Ti4100 card. I doubt I'll be able to get more than 10 FPS when Nightfall is out.

I've been looking at new computers but being the poor college student I am, only have a budget of around $1000 USD to spend. I also need this computer to last 3-5 years, so it must be easily upgradable (unlike the #$%@ Dell).

A friend helped me put together this computer on AVADirect but I wanted to get a few more opinions on it before I drop the $1000.

Is this a good deal?

I don't need a new monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers or software and have a spare CDRW and DVDRW and 150GB hard drive. I kept the CD/DVD combo drive on that setup because it was only -$10 to remove it.

I don't know much about computer parts but dualcore seems to be the way to go for a gaming machine. The dual video cards is nice too. I don't care about getting 100 fps on the latest games (Oblivion, Doom 3, etc) since I usually play old games anyway, but would like to have the option to upgrade when the time comes.

Thanks for any advice or comments. I really appreciate the feedback.. just want to be sure I'm getting a good deal for my money!

Dual core may be nice, but unless you are useing programs that are made to take advantage of dual cores, you are better off with a faster single core unit. Almost no games are able to take advantage of "dual core". Not even Doom, GW, or Fear see any difference between dual core and single core systems. Instead of running 1 core at 100%, they merely run both cores at around 50%.

Among the few games that are dual core aware are Oblivion and Serious Sam 2. And these games only give you a 15-30% boos over playing on a single core system. Call of Duty has a patch that claims to make it Dual Core, but it really only improves the performance by around 10%.

This goes back to a discussion in another thread here. Whenever people approach me with the needs for a "budget system" (sub $2,000), I almost always stear them towards AMD processors. With the cost of the Core 2 E6400 (their next-to-lowest speed processor), you are normally better off going to AMD. For roughly the same price, you can get around 3.8-4 GHz performance. And that will beat the E6400 (2.13 GHz) every time.

Asus is a great motherboard, and I would agree with using one in a system. But I would reconsider the use of a Gigabyte video card (or Gigabyte anything). Gigabyte has been having large quality control issues over the last several years, and reports show that they are near the verge of bankruptcy. I would recommend a card by a company like Sapphire or PowerColour.

But you will need an operating system. The XP that came with your Dell will not be useable on a system by any other company. Unless the XP sticker says "OEM" on it, you will need another copy of Windows.

And check your local stores. Around here, systems like that normally sell in the $800-900 range. I see nothing exotic in the system, so any store (or a knowledgeable buddy) could build you that system in an afternoon. But do not use your old drive. Unless it is a SATA drive, you are better off saving it for a backup drive. SATA beats IDE for performance hands down.

Side note: I would also recommend going with a single video card, along the "budget line" range ($90-145). This is because with DirectX 10 about to come out, there will be a huge drop in price and a huge increase in performance within the next 2-4 months. There is little that sucks more then spending several hundred dollars on something, only to see it replaced by something much better a few months later.

I still kick myself for settling for an AGP motherboard in 2004, and not spending the extra $125 for PCIe.

Thanks! I'll definetly check around some local places now. I live in a smaller city but I know we have Circuit City, Office Max, Office Depot and Best Buy. I just thought buying from those places wouldn't allow me to pick and choose which parts I needed to save a couple hundred bucks.

I can't remember what type of hard drive the 150gb one is, but I was planning to use it as a secondary drive like I do with this computer. Would it be OK for that? I was putting all my games and downloads on that drive and only Windows on the main drive.

I was thinking about the dual core because I want this computer to last a good few years, and thought it would be a wise investment. I can put in hard drives, RAM, sound card, and video card but I'm scared to mess with putting in a new motherboard or CPU since the parts are so delicate. I'd scream if I accidentally broke a $300 CPU!

I'll definetly wait on the dual video cards though. Some people were telling me to wait another 6 months to buy a new computer (maybe for the DX10 thing) but this poor computer has been acting up lately. I reinstalled Windows and it's running worse than ever, so I suspect maybe some hardware is failing... I dunno. I can barely play GW anymore though, and must close EVERYTHING to get a measly 10-15 FPS. It's driving me nuts and I can't play Monk or other professions which require quick reaction time.

Floppy: if you need a floppy, at least get a memory card/floppy reader....~20 bucks
Hard drive: Why 80 gig? a 250 gig is like 20 bucks more, and is you have need for more, just buy an external HD
Processor: Mushroom is right, but I still think it is worth it to get a dual core. It makes multiple applications run easier, and eventually more things will b compatable

Graphics card: Just one. and keep it below 150$. With technology going up so fast, its better just to upgrade to a real nice one in a few months when prices drop.

The price of the old xp computers will drop dramatically when vista comes out too.

OK, I'll probably wait til Dec. or so then to get a new computer. Thanks for all the tips!

Also, I'd like to add that you might think about investing in a decent PSU. That 400W one sounds like it's just a generic PSU that come with the case.

Personally, I'd dump at least a branded 580W one in there. I don't know if you can get them in the States, but this is the one I use.

http://www.hipergroup.com/English/pr...hpu-4b580.html

Some info if you're still considering this build:

Stick with dual core CPUs. Single core CPUs are the suck when it comes to multitasking.
If it's cheaper, go for 2 GB DDR2 533 if you never heard of overclocking.
If you're using a 5 year old Dell monitor, chances are it's a 17" or 19" CRT so ditch the dual video cards and get one faster card. 2 6600GTs don't really add much anyway. 7300GT or 7600GT make nice budget cards.

The XoO forums do have a tech forum too you know

Dual core would be good for me then. I'd like to have GW, TS, MSN, Opera and a music player running at once... and usually when I'm not playing games I have about 10 programs up at once.

One of my friends said something about shaders (I might be mistaken though) running a lot better with dual video cards. Is there any advantage to having 2 lesser video cards over 1 nice one?

Yeah, my Dell monitor is a 19" CRT but monitors are just too expensive for my budget at the moment, and 1280x1024 kinda hurts my eyes anyway hehe.

I lost my password for the XoO forums a while ago but just recently got it back... Thanks for letting me know! I'll ask around there in Dec when I hopefully buy a new computer

I really appreciate all this info though... I had no idea about a lot of this and would've wasted a lot of money!

Dual video cards are mainly for the higher resolutions (over 1280). Any lower and the performance gains are not worth it. Even with higher resolutions, 2 6600GTs are still pretty weak. 1 7600GT will be cheaper and better. The only benefit I see from running 2 6600GTs is 2+ monitor support. A single 6600GT will run GW fairly well too, with a few things turned down. 7600GT will give you smoother gameplay with higher image quality.

So does this place - http://www.overclockers.co.uk/ - it's where my Guild, The Godless, was formed way back on the release of prophecies.

Here - http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/

Well, I would encourage you to not go to one of those stores you listed. Those are "big box" stores, and you are right. There, you only get what they have on the shelf, with no choice available.

When I say "local computer store", I mean the smaller mom & pop type operations. These are often family owned, or run by an owner with a small number of employees. These stores specialize in custom building computers to meet the customer's specifications. I work at such a store (the owner, myself, and 1 other employee). And the size of the town does not matter, you probably have several in your own town. I live in the largest town in the area (130,000), and we have 6 or 7. Another town an hour away is only 45,000, and there are 4 such stores there.

I wrote a post here about a month ago on how to look for a "local computer store", because they are not all alike. Sadly, just like car lots there are bad eggs mixed in, who concentrate more on making money then customer service and quality components. If you want to look, this is where it is:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10048549

One of the biggest advantage of a "custom built" machine is the upgradeability. If you get a system that has DDR2 RAM and either an LGA775 or AM2 processor, you have a cheap and easy upgrade path. You can get a cheaper processor for the moment. Then in a year, when the prices drop and faster ones come out, you can simply replace the processor. A CPU like the Dual Core units out now run from $200+. But I can guarantee that by this time next year, those same processors will be around (if not under) $100. This is where the biggest depreciation occurs in computers.

3 years ago, a 1.8 GHZ processor would have cost you around $225. Now, you can get 3 GHz processors for around $100. And a processor swap is one of the easiest things to do. Most small stores can do it in about 15 minutes, with no need to make any changes to anything else. $100 and 15 minutes, and it is like you have a new computer.

One of the things I urge people about is "buying to new to fast". This industry has a long history of rapid change, and falling prices. Spending $1,000 now and $500 in 6 months will normally get you a much better system then if you spent $1,500 all at once. I normally encourage people to spend 10-20% of their computer's new value every year on upgrades. In this way, your computer will never be "old and obsolete".

About the only choice you will be stuck with is your choice of processor and video card. Right now, you have Intel (LGA775) and AMD (AM2) for processors, and ATI (Crossfire) and NVidia (SLI) for dual video card solutions. Whichever motherboard you choose, make sure that it has the right combination of these two items.

And don't forget, within 3 years all of these will likely be obsolete. 3 years ago the hottest things out were the Socket A Athlon, the Socket 939 Athlon 64, and the Pentium 4. Video cards were AGP only for high-end. In the last year, every one of these technologies has become obsolete. Both LGA775 and AM2 have an expected lifespan of 3 years. Both companies are already hard at work on the next 2 chip designs, which will replace both of these with something newer and more exciting.

And the "which is best" constantly bounces back and forth. It always has, and always will. Intel is currently "top dog" with Core 2, but AMD plans to have quad-core processors out by the end of next year. And I am sure that Intel's next chip will come out around the same time, so the battle will only continue.

I have been in this industry for over 25 years, and have seen technology come and go. This is one of the biggest reasons I encourage people to "shop local" Most shops are staffed with people like me, that track and watch trends in order to provide the latest technology to their customers. We work on such fine margins, that we can't afford to not pay attention, and see our stock become worthless as it sits on the shelf.

This is one thing that the "big companies" can't do. They work in such large volume, that they are often selling "old technology" for years before finally phasing it out. We started working with SATA only drives over a year ago. Yet you can buy a brand new Compaq or Gateway today, with the old IDE drives. And with the recent mergers (Gateway & E-Machine, HP & Compaq, Dell & Alienware), this is seen even more. Prices are falling, so they cut corners in order to keep selling their priducts.

Companies like Dell and Gateway are early adapters, that's why they're the only ones using the BTX form factor. SATA drives have been pretty much standard in new systems from both companies for years now. You'd probably find IDE drives on Celerons or something.

There's nothing wrong with the build posted from AVADirect, since they detail every part they're putting together for you, giving you a heads up on future upgrades.

Also C2QX is already being shipped to some builders on the higher scale, which should make the C2DX fall in price considerably from those builders.

I'll also be building a new system near the end of this year... my wife's P4 1.8ghz CPU is now really showing its age. I'm leaning towards a Shuttle-sized set up for the occasional LAN parties.

Intel quad cores just started shipping to the various PC manufacturers. They should be available by Christmas

EDIT: I would recommend the retail-chain PC's like Dell and Gateway only to those who don't like working around in the guts of the PC's hardware. Custom building PC's gives users the most flexibility and performance, but they have to be prepared to be their own tech support.

Actually, this is not quite true. I see new Dell and Gateway systems all the time with IDE drives. We just got 2 in last week in fact. These are Gateway GT5034 computers. They still sell them new, and they come with 320 GB IDE drives. There is SATA on the motherboard, but the hard drive is IDE for some reason. And this is not a "low end" system, it comes with an Athlon X2 4200. A similar model I worked on last month had a Pentium D 840, which also had an IDE drive. I have also seen recent Dell XPS systems with IDE.

BTX is a different matter however. We can order BTX cases and motherboards, but for the most part the format has been a complete failure. One of the main reasons why companies like Dell and Gateway moved to that format is to make it harder to use off the shelf parts for repairs and replacement. Dell has long used propriatory motherboards, and by moving to BTX, it prevents people from pulling the components and putting them into other cases (or by reuseing the case when the current motherboard eventually dies by putting in another motherboard).

BTX sounded good on paper, but motherboard makers have found other ways to reduce heat, without having to redesign everything. In fact, it was such a failure that Intel itself (the designer of the system) scrapped it last month. Intel has already stopped making BTX motherboards, and once the current supply runs out, they will only make them "on demand" for companies like Gateway and Dell. There will be no BTX motherboards released by Intel to the consumer channel after this year.

BTX has turned into the computer version of the Edsel.

This guy is smart. Listen to him. Enermax and Antec are the brands that most people go with on power supplies, though there are lots of other good ones, like OCZ and Raidmax.

I also agree with everything EF said here.


But this post... Please go and find some facts to back this up, cause it's crap. My brother is using a 6600gt 128 mb, and he runs GW all settings max, 4xaa, and 1600x1200 on a 21" CRT. GW is not a hard game to run, and there was absolutely no performance drop with Nightfall. As far as using a 7600 over SLI 6600s.. of course. I would definitely go for a 7600 over 2 older cards like the 6600 series.


No. Dell and Gateway have some of the worst tech support I have seen in my life. I've dealt with them personally, for ANGRY CUSTOMERS. It's not fun. If you have to deal with anyone over warranty issues, I find Sony and Compaq/HP to be the least bitchy. Apple is obviously way up there as well, but they don't make machines than can run GW. =p


At any rate, I would definitely go with 2gb of memory and a dual core cpu, even if you do have to go with the lower end. You're just going to need these things more in the future, if you don't already.

Oh, I wasn't mentioning Dell and Gateway as having stellar tech support... just referring to retail PC makers in general. HP has given me the best tech support so far, but their current laptops just can't match Dell's XPS line when it comes to raw performance. I'm just stating that non-PC enthusiasts should have some sort of tech-support line available if they are not familiar with the internal workings of a PC, it's OS, etc...

The worse mistake I've ever seen a retail PC salesman make was selling a customer a new sound card and informing him that it was an easy drop-in install. That customer came back fuming when he found out that the saleman had misrepresented the skill level required for the install.

Yes, assembling PC's from the ground up is easy for some of us, but we should never assume that it's a cake-walk for everyone else.

find a computter show in your area see link for possible suggestion. Take list of what you want know you rbudget maybe take a friend that is savvy comp wise and should be able to find a good deal by checking out the dealers

http://www.marketproshows.com/comput...owschedule.php

It's funny that you mention that, cause I'll never forget the new 4000 dollar+ Dell XPS system that came into us because Dell wouldn't even work with their warranty. Just about everyone in the store had a laugh at that guy. Of course it was someone who didn't have that much knowledge about computers in the first place.. getting the best stuff out there just isn't worth it for some people.

I've played GW with a 6600GT for more than a year, I think I'd know the capabilities of it. Sure you can get max frames in explorable areas but as soon as it hits PvP or cities, FPS plummets.


I worked tech support and didn't have problems with Dell or Gateway. You just have to know what to say and they're great. Sony is horrible because you have to pay money for a driver CD they don't package with their computers. Their Vaio line is probably the worst offender in problems.

As for outdated Dells and Gateways, we received some 100-200 machines from them with full SATA drives.

People have run GW on Apples without problems.

P.S. This topic should be closed since the OP already made up her mind and all threads after her post are very off topic, including this one.

That is why whenever somebody asks how hard installing something is, I try to get a feel for what their technical ability is. If they want to install a card, I ask if they are comfortable opening the computer and then loading the software. If they are not, I then frequently offer them a USB alternative, or ask them to bring it in. We normally charge no more then $10 to install a card and load drivers.

I actually find assembling computers to be rather simple. The really complex parts of the job are deciding what components to get, and troubleshooting when things are not working right.

If you are going to custom build a system (or have one custom built for you) there really are a lot of choices involved. LGA775 or AM2? Dual 2, Pentium D, or Celeron for Intel. Sempron or Athlon or Athlon X2 for AMD. Asus, MSI, AsRock, ASI, or company XYZ for motherboard? Which chipset even becomes an issue sometimes. Standard PCIe, Combo (AGP & PCIe), or do you choose SLI or Crossfire for dual cards? On-board sound, or do you want the Turtle Beach, Audigy or X-Fi? Then you get to choose which video card, ATI or NVidia. YOu may even contemplate getting a TV Tuner card, which one? A cheap one, one that is Media Center approved, HD ready, or an exotic like the All-In-Wonder?

And which Windows? Do you stick with XP Home, choose Professional for more RAM, or go to Media Center Edition? For that DVD Burner, do you spend the extra money for LightScribe? The case with or without the window? What colour case?

A lot of people actually get intimidated when it comes to having a computer built, because there are so many choices. Many people simply want a box handed to them. Or have a company like Dell give them a choice of only half as many items, spelled out in advance.

This is why I tend to reccomend people finding either a good "consultant", or a builder who will work as a consultant. When somebody comes in the store and wants a custom computer, I always ask them:

1. What do they want to do with the computer.
2. What is their budget.

That can immediately steer me to what they need. If it is for browsing the internet and light game playing, I will aim them to something with on-board graphics. If they tell me they play games like Sims 2, Doom, or GW, I immediately steer them to a system without on-board video, with 1 or 2 PCIe slots. Motherboard and CPU choice is a matter of the budget. If it is $1,2000 or under, I almost always reccomend AM2 because of the cost. If it is above that, it can go either way, depending on the customer's choice.

And I agree with what most in here say about telephone support. I have done that job before (AT&T Worldnet), and absolutely hated it. I quit after 2 weeks, because I was getting in trouble for doing more then I was supposed to do (used my brain instead of reading from the book). I have long refered to them as "Phone Monkeys", because all most of them do is look up the problem in a book and read the answer. I normally simply ask to be sent to Second Level Support, since by the time I need to call for help, I have gone beyond what the First Level folks can do.

I had always built my own systems (price hunting on Newegg for hours was not uncommon) and I've come to one conclusion:

You can save money building your own system. LOTS of money. But like everything in life there is a flipside to that coin. The burden of hardware conflicts, fine-tuning your system, and basically setting everything up is put on your shoulders.

I can't tell you how many hours I spent, my system in pieces on the living room floor... sorting out IRQ conflicts, finding which memory stick had burned out, or trying to flash my CMOS. Basically after years of this, I decided to look into a pre-built system.

I have an Alienware M9700 laptop, 2.4 gigahertz, 1 gig of DDR, and two GeForce 7900 SLI cards.

I can play Guild Wars at 1920x1600 with max settings and FSAA at roughly 60 FPS, even in crowded districts.

Granted, the system wasn't the cheapest, but I like not having to worry about tweaking settings to make a game run "just right" anymore. As far as I'm concerned, that was well worth the investment.

If you want to have a serious gaming experience, I'd go with Alienware. Like I said they aren't the cheapest, but those guys know what they're doing when it comes to customized desktops and laptops.

I think it's all a matter of how much time you have. Some people like myself work 40-50 hours a week and don't have time to deal with hardware conflicts and driver issues.

Sorry, but over here we have a phrase for that! That phrase is "You're talking bollocks mate"!

I could put together a PC that would out perform any Alienware POS for half the price! Laptops are a different kettle of fish though, yes it's very possible to build your own laptop but it's very different and a lot harder than building a desktop PC. However, Alienware still rip people off no matter what format the PC is.

That's basically what I said... no one is denying that you can build a better/cheaper/faster desktop than a pre-built Alienware.

I'm saying the trade-off is that there's less hassle.

I got an Alienware laptop, however, because I believe they have some of the nicest laptops I've ever seen. I don't care what anyone says.

Laptops are a totaly different kettle of fish. If I was to reccomend a laptop for gaming, then yes I would probably steer people towards AW, or some other company that specializes in "Desktop Replacement Laptops". For units like that though, you expect to pay a lot of money ($1,600+), and there are very few companies that even make them.

Whitebook computers are very good, but they are a pain in the butt for consumers to get them. Even we have a problem getting bare whitebook units. We ordered 5 of them earlier this year, and since then even our supplier has stopped selling them.

But I do not recommend the "high end" desktop makers, unless you happen to need a lot of units (10+) and need them all to be 100% identicle. The price Vs. Performance scale is simply nuts. You end up paying 50-200% more, simply because of the name attached to the product.

And Alienware simply is not as good as it used to be. The Alienware of today is not the Alienware of last year. Now they are simply Dell with a fancy case and more expensive options.

What? Do you want me to FRAPS a video for you or something? Give me any area in GW and I guarantee my brother's computer won't slow down at those settings.

As far as tech support, me and my coworkers have dealt with them day in and day out- I used to work at a CompUSA tech shop. I think I know what I'm talking about here, I was there for about 10 months. As for Sony and not including driver cds.. do you mean restore discs? Most of those are on the secondary partition, and you have the option to create your own. Yeah it's a problem for people that don't do that, but I can't say I feel too sorry for them. Drivers you can download off of websites.

I don't claim to know everything about Apple computers, or even close. As far as I know, the only way to run GW on an apple is with Bootcamp, which isn't supported by Apple, and is something that a novice to computers definitely shouldn't try.