This is for all those people in AB or Fort Aspenwood that absolutely hate MM's, luxon warriors, and seige turtles. Primarily, this build is to annoy MM's.
N/Mo Ja Zz Y
12+3+1 Death Magic
8 Smiting
11 ish Soul Reaping
Death Nova (105 dmg)
Verata's Gaze
Verata's Aura (312 seconds)
Scourge Healing (50 dmg)
Soul Feast (295 hp heal)
Rotting Flesh (26 seconds disease)
Deathly Swarm/Tainted Flesh [E]/ Animate Flesh Golem [E]
Necrotic Transversal (Poison, 16 seconds)
When the battle starts:
Help cap one of the amber mines, and strap on death nova to anyone near death. Rotting flesh the luxon wars/turtle, and scourge healing the turtle and any monk. Be sure to run some amber back in, and prepare for the inevitable minion wave.
Inside the fort:
Stay up on the walls, and spam Verata's gaze, rotting flesh, and necrotic transversal. I use necrotic transversal mainly as a corpse denial as opposed to its poison. If the MM's get way out of control, then death nova yourself, run up to the minion mass, and use verata's aura. (Note: it sacrifices 33% hp, so use this carefully). When you get low on health, just use soul feast. It counts as a heal, plus a nice corpse denial.
Pros:
-Nullification of the cheapest tactic in AB/Fort Aspenwood
-Takes away enemy forces and bolsters yours, easily turning the tide of the battle
-Crowd control of luxon wars and turtles
Cons:
-Gamble strat. If the luxons don't have an MM (rare occasion), then your damage is pretty much weaksauce.
-You die alot in this build. Be prepared to cast Death nova alot...
-All the MM's will hate you, and tell the whole team to target you once you rez.
Well, that's about it. I've caused like 50 MM's to leave using this build, so I would say it has alot of annoying factor. That's good. Leave any crits, death threats, insults to my face and/or parentals in this here thread. Peace
Bane of the Minon Master: "The Minon Thief"
Mr Jazzy
unholy guardian
sounds cool to me, i would defiantly try it sometime
Zinger314
And what happens if you don't fight Minion Masters, genius?
unholy guardian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
And what happens if you don't fight Minion Masters, genius?
you must read the cons
you must read the cons
Mr Jazzy
yeah, that's what i said in my cons. this is a strong counter to MM's which are pretty common in ABs and fort.
Zinger314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jazzy
yeah, that's what i said in my cons. this is a strong counter to MM's which are pretty common in ABs and fort.
Do you want to know a better counter to MMs without being potentially useless?
Kill them.
Kill them.
tuperwho
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Do you want to know a better counter to MMs without being potentially useless?
Kill them. Or smite... that hurts everything
Kill them. Or smite... that hurts everything
Lord Oranos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Do you want to know a better counter to MMs without being potentially useless?
Kill them. Is there a reason you are trolling him? He has fun with the build and wanted to post it so maybe others could have fun annoying mms, I dont see the problem.
While its not a perfect versatile build, it gets the job done, especially if he chooses to taint his allies, with all 8 tainted it can give him a nice dps, he can deny corpses and, to some extent, annoy monks with scourge healing as well.
Besides, better than yet another blood spike build.
Kill them. Is there a reason you are trolling him? He has fun with the build and wanted to post it so maybe others could have fun annoying mms, I dont see the problem.
While its not a perfect versatile build, it gets the job done, especially if he chooses to taint his allies, with all 8 tainted it can give him a nice dps, he can deny corpses and, to some extent, annoy monks with scourge healing as well.
Besides, better than yet another blood spike build.
Sol_Vie
Besides, it can be a real pain to take out a MM with 10 minions running around him. So yeah, chill out.
It looks like a real fun build to play. I definitely plan on trying this out.
One suggestion would be to throw Ray of Judgement in there. Good smiting skill especially against undead. Good luck with this.
It looks like a real fun build to play. I definitely plan on trying this out.
One suggestion would be to throw Ray of Judgement in there. Good smiting skill especially against undead. Good luck with this.
Zinger314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol_Vie
Besides, it can be a real pain to take out a MM with 10 minions running around him. So yeah, chill out.
It looks like a real fun build to play. I definitely plan on trying this out.
One suggestion would be to throw Ray of Judgement in there. Good smiting skill especially against undead. Good luck with this.
It's pathetically easy to kill a MM. Just wait until the minions don't target you, then annihilate the MM. They only have 60 Armor, you know. One Warrior does the trick, especially in FA/JQ.
As I've said, it's much better to make a build that can kill more than one player rather than one player type. A 1 for 1 tradeoff isn't good.
Ray of Judgment is Elite. The only anti-MM skill that's decent is Banishing Strike, for obvious reasons.
It looks like a real fun build to play. I definitely plan on trying this out.
One suggestion would be to throw Ray of Judgement in there. Good smiting skill especially against undead. Good luck with this.
It's pathetically easy to kill a MM. Just wait until the minions don't target you, then annihilate the MM. They only have 60 Armor, you know. One Warrior does the trick, especially in FA/JQ.As I've said, it's much better to make a build that can kill more than one player rather than one player type. A 1 for 1 tradeoff isn't good.
Ray of Judgment is Elite. The only anti-MM skill that's decent is Banishing Strike, for obvious reasons.
Mr Jazzy
yeah it's easy to kill the MM...but what about his minions? once the mm dies, all the minions turn grey, since they have no master. that's where i come in, turning the tide of the battle by converting his minions to mine.
sorry if i offended you with my build
sorry if i offended you with my build
Lord Oranos
I dont see his build killing anyone directly, but that doesnt matter, he can spread degen around to make it easier for enemies to go down, just a variant of the tainted ally for ab's really.
Zinger314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Oranos
I dont see his build killing anyone directly, but that doesnt matter, he can spread degen around to make it easier for enemies to go down, just a variant of the tainted ally for ab's really.
Uh...4 Degen is nothing.
A good Illusion Mesmer can do atleast -8 Degen on anyone with Crippling Anguish + Conjure Phanatism. Plus a potent snare.
A good Illusion Mesmer can do atleast -8 Degen on anyone with Crippling Anguish + Conjure Phanatism. Plus a potent snare.
Wicked Shadow
In ye olden days of alliance battles, when you could go in alone, I remember getting really ticked off at minion masters. So I made a Me/N with really high fast casting and consume corpse. Whenever anything died, I'd exploit the corpse before anything could be summoned. I even ended up pissing off a MM on my own team, so I guess it worked.
Shuuda
Why do u use scourge healing, I think scourge scarfice would be more anti MM
Rancour
Because Scourge Healing is to piss off the monks.
Anyway, sure you can kill the MM but will that make him ragequit? No way. With this, you can bug the hell out of them, potentially making them leave in anger which not only helps everyone out in terms of one less person to take care of (including his 10 minions), but it also lowers moral on the other side.
I think it sounds like a funny build. Don't bash it just because the top 3 guilds don't use it.
Anyway, sure you can kill the MM but will that make him ragequit? No way. With this, you can bug the hell out of them, potentially making them leave in anger which not only helps everyone out in terms of one less person to take care of (including his 10 minions), but it also lowers moral on the other side.
I think it sounds like a funny build. Don't bash it just because the top 3 guilds don't use it.
Bloodied Blade
I wouldn't run verata's gaze...just the aura + consume corpse is enough (or even better, putrid explosion). Just that when you make almost all of your build to counter 1 person out of 12 who is easily taken down by a single player who can *also* do other things, you tend to lose a lot of your effect. You could also just drop the aura and bring only the gaze, not sure how that would work. I just don't like running both.
Aki Soyokaze
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jazzy
Cons:
-Gamble strat. If the luxons don't have an MM (rare occasion), then your damage is pretty much weaksauce. Although I'm all for trying out new builds and skills even though people say they're useless, I think there are a few things that you should consider. You pointed out that this is a gamble build and it would seem to be just that. With that said I think it'd be better to concentrate on a build that can be more widely applicable to more than a single situation or dependant on a single instance. It just seems as if you're trying to find a way of being a mm without really being a mm, i.e. taking another persons minions. And in doing so you take their minions but you take them as they are and without a way to heal them. You're also using this as a corpse control mechanism that can keep any mm's in the area from balling up to many minions. But if there is no mm then this effectively becomes a weak form of dmg. that you can use off and on, which is dependant on enemies to be nearby.
From looking at all of this it seems like a lot of effort just to deny one person from having an effective use in the battle. And like you said this is a gamble and you're depending on a mm being there.
And from personal experience running mm's in battles, I don't just depend on minions. So if there is a person who is using corpse denial on me I'll switch over to using another form of dmg. It's not that I think minions are useless; it's just that I can recognize that devoting all that effort into a build that is based just on their being corpses and me needing minions to stay alive is one that can be easily countered. And if it can be easily countered or nullified then my effectiveness to the team is greatly reduced.
So I think it's good that you want to play new builds and that you're actually thinking up new builds rather than cookie cutter builds that a lot of people rely on. However, I think that this is a rather awkward way of taking care of just the mm. Where you could just go in and kill the mm and/or take the minions away from him/her, while at the same time still being able to kill or do dmg. to others.
-Gamble strat. If the luxons don't have an MM (rare occasion), then your damage is pretty much weaksauce. Although I'm all for trying out new builds and skills even though people say they're useless, I think there are a few things that you should consider. You pointed out that this is a gamble build and it would seem to be just that. With that said I think it'd be better to concentrate on a build that can be more widely applicable to more than a single situation or dependant on a single instance. It just seems as if you're trying to find a way of being a mm without really being a mm, i.e. taking another persons minions. And in doing so you take their minions but you take them as they are and without a way to heal them. You're also using this as a corpse control mechanism that can keep any mm's in the area from balling up to many minions. But if there is no mm then this effectively becomes a weak form of dmg. that you can use off and on, which is dependant on enemies to be nearby.
From looking at all of this it seems like a lot of effort just to deny one person from having an effective use in the battle. And like you said this is a gamble and you're depending on a mm being there.
And from personal experience running mm's in battles, I don't just depend on minions. So if there is a person who is using corpse denial on me I'll switch over to using another form of dmg. It's not that I think minions are useless; it's just that I can recognize that devoting all that effort into a build that is based just on their being corpses and me needing minions to stay alive is one that can be easily countered. And if it can be easily countered or nullified then my effectiveness to the team is greatly reduced.
So I think it's good that you want to play new builds and that you're actually thinking up new builds rather than cookie cutter builds that a lot of people rely on. However, I think that this is a rather awkward way of taking care of just the mm. Where you could just go in and kill the mm and/or take the minions away from him/her, while at the same time still being able to kill or do dmg. to others.
Pick Me
How about dropping Necrotic Traversal and get Malign Intervention. This way you know there will be undead for you to control. Cast this on dying enemies and turn them into Bone Horrors. Use VA and you start having your undead army. This way, you won't feel totally useless if there is no MMs around.
You can then use AotL and reduce your sac damage (instead of AFG or TF).
You can then use AotL and reduce your sac damage (instead of AFG or TF).
Glasswalker
I think you are headed in the right direction with this build, but I see 2 issues with it. #1 is the self-stated narrow scope of this build. #2 is sticking 8 valuable att levels into your secondary for 1 skill.
First off, I'd swap SH for Malign Intervention. 20% less healing could be as valuable as -50h, plus you end up with another potential minion, and you've exploited a corpse faster than anything else in the game. Also, it's on your primary att. The downside is that you can only get it on one target at a time, and if the hex is removed, it's removed.
VA is obviously the cornerstone of this build, and it needs to stay. I am making the assumption that you have access to all 3 continents, so I will add Feast for the Dead to keep your stolen minions alive. This will avoid the sacrifice of BotM.
TF is a great Elite for you, quickly and cheaply targetting all allies for an easy 4 degen to melee opponents.
Bitter Chill can quickly bring an enemy below 50% health
Since you now have someone below 50% health, Signet of Lost Souls on them to counter some of that energy consumption.
Deathly Swarm rounds out the damage pre-minioning.
Strat: TF all allies as the match starts and periodically as you find a lull (and see melee going on). First enemy you see, use BC until it starts a recharge, pop on MI, switch to DS, then SoLS.
Try to get in range of enemy minions without getting their attention, and steal them with VA. You actually don't care too much about minions because you are getting them for free, so you keep them alive while sacrificing one each time with FftD.
You still have 2 slots open, and your choice of secondary. You can add Death Nova since you are targetting a minion to kill anyway. Res signet is always good. Or you could go Ranger secondary and add Toxicity to turn Tainted Flesh into 8pts of Degen.
Pros: All of the ones listed above, plus less of a gamble. It can be useful even when there are no enemy MMs -- especially since there are 2 open slots. Soul Reaping can be pumped up to 13 (meh).
Cons: The only self-heal you have is the conditional SoLS, and VA has a massive 33% sac. You may still have Energy issues. No cover hex for MI (Parasitic Bond?). Anything I've forgotten?
First off, I'd swap SH for Malign Intervention. 20% less healing could be as valuable as -50h, plus you end up with another potential minion, and you've exploited a corpse faster than anything else in the game. Also, it's on your primary att. The downside is that you can only get it on one target at a time, and if the hex is removed, it's removed.
VA is obviously the cornerstone of this build, and it needs to stay. I am making the assumption that you have access to all 3 continents, so I will add Feast for the Dead to keep your stolen minions alive. This will avoid the sacrifice of BotM.
TF is a great Elite for you, quickly and cheaply targetting all allies for an easy 4 degen to melee opponents.
Bitter Chill can quickly bring an enemy below 50% health
Since you now have someone below 50% health, Signet of Lost Souls on them to counter some of that energy consumption.
Deathly Swarm rounds out the damage pre-minioning.
Strat: TF all allies as the match starts and periodically as you find a lull (and see melee going on). First enemy you see, use BC until it starts a recharge, pop on MI, switch to DS, then SoLS.
Try to get in range of enemy minions without getting their attention, and steal them with VA. You actually don't care too much about minions because you are getting them for free, so you keep them alive while sacrificing one each time with FftD.
You still have 2 slots open, and your choice of secondary. You can add Death Nova since you are targetting a minion to kill anyway. Res signet is always good. Or you could go Ranger secondary and add Toxicity to turn Tainted Flesh into 8pts of Degen.
Pros: All of the ones listed above, plus less of a gamble. It can be useful even when there are no enemy MMs -- especially since there are 2 open slots. Soul Reaping can be pumped up to 13 (meh).
Cons: The only self-heal you have is the conditional SoLS, and VA has a massive 33% sac. You may still have Energy issues. No cover hex for MI (Parasitic Bond?). Anything I've forgotten?
Lord Oranos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Uh...4 Degen is nothing.
A good Illusion Mesmer can do atleast -8 Degen on anyone with Crippling Anguish + Conjure Phanatism. Plus a potent snare. Uh...respammable 4 degen (actually 8 dps) on eight people, decent pressure added on top of other offensive players.
Yes, and crippling has a high recharge, and conjure phantasm is a one target cast that costs twice as much and only adds +2 degen, sorry but the havoc Disease can cause to an enemies team is better than one snare and a couple of illusion spams that get stripped for energy.
A good Illusion Mesmer can do atleast -8 Degen on anyone with Crippling Anguish + Conjure Phanatism. Plus a potent snare. Uh...respammable 4 degen (actually 8 dps) on eight people, decent pressure added on top of other offensive players.
Yes, and crippling has a high recharge, and conjure phantasm is a one target cast that costs twice as much and only adds +2 degen, sorry but the havoc Disease can cause to an enemies team is better than one snare and a couple of illusion spams that get stripped for energy.
Mr Jazzy
Glasswalker and Aki, i appreciate the thought u put into ur posts. i never expected any type of depth to the responses i would get.
aki, u are right in pointing out that this is a gamble build, and yeah the damage is very weaksauce and even awkward. u also said that minion masters could supposedly switch over to other forms of dmg, but wat type? i think if they were to switch to any other damage, it would be at about the same strength of mine, which is a virtual nullification.
all things aside, i pretty much created this build to annoy MM's since they annoyed me. i think their powers in fort are way imba, so i wanted to frustrate them equally. i think if i were to create the most efficient anti-mm build, this would not be it. to everyone: i don't suggest this as the best anti-mm build (probably interrupt ranger or other), but a different way to approaching MM counter.
glasswalker, it's cool that you made a variation of the bane MM build, but lol. i dont know what some of those skills are. plus, necros don't really need much energy management with 11 soul reaping, thats a whopping amount. i usually use this equipment (i never run out of energy): wand with +5 hp>50, focus +12e +15e -1e regen +30 hp.
thanks for the crits. peace
aki, u are right in pointing out that this is a gamble build, and yeah the damage is very weaksauce and even awkward. u also said that minion masters could supposedly switch over to other forms of dmg, but wat type? i think if they were to switch to any other damage, it would be at about the same strength of mine, which is a virtual nullification.
all things aside, i pretty much created this build to annoy MM's since they annoyed me. i think their powers in fort are way imba, so i wanted to frustrate them equally. i think if i were to create the most efficient anti-mm build, this would not be it. to everyone: i don't suggest this as the best anti-mm build (probably interrupt ranger or other), but a different way to approaching MM counter.
glasswalker, it's cool that you made a variation of the bane MM build, but lol. i dont know what some of those skills are. plus, necros don't really need much energy management with 11 soul reaping, thats a whopping amount. i usually use this equipment (i never run out of energy): wand with +5 hp>50, focus +12e +15e -1e regen +30 hp.
thanks for the crits. peace
Glasswalker
Cool. The build wouldn't be quite as effective if you only have say Prophecies? Wait, you must have Factions for the Fort battle...
Swap Feast for the Dead with Blood of the Master. BotM will cost you a sacrifice of at least 7% though.
Swap Signet of Lost Souls with Consume Corpse. Consume Corpse does rely on having a corpse available, and teleports you to its location, so be careful with this one.
The equipment looks good, and a high Soul Reaping with tend to balance out the -energy regen, but you get nothing when nothing dies. I like to have an alternative when the enemy has a good monk (hey, it happens).
As I said, not nearly as effective this way. If you can afford it, Nightfall and the Signet of Lost Souls will really help you maintain energy between deaths.
As for variations on the bane MM, I actually have been running a Rit/Necro that carries 5 in DM just for Verata's Aura in Alliance Battles. I don't care how long they live, I just love beating a MM over the head with his own minions. If I can hit a Touch Ranger or two afterward, so much the better.
Swap Feast for the Dead with Blood of the Master. BotM will cost you a sacrifice of at least 7% though.
Swap Signet of Lost Souls with Consume Corpse. Consume Corpse does rely on having a corpse available, and teleports you to its location, so be careful with this one.
The equipment looks good, and a high Soul Reaping with tend to balance out the -energy regen, but you get nothing when nothing dies. I like to have an alternative when the enemy has a good monk (hey, it happens).
As I said, not nearly as effective this way. If you can afford it, Nightfall and the Signet of Lost Souls will really help you maintain energy between deaths.
As for variations on the bane MM, I actually have been running a Rit/Necro that carries 5 in DM just for Verata's Aura in Alliance Battles. I don't care how long they live, I just love beating a MM over the head with his own minions. If I can hit a Touch Ranger or two afterward, so much the better.
Lord Oranos
Tbh I see mms as weak, in some cases they depend on the minions, in other cases they cant survive much focus fire, and when Im on my ranger I make it a personal crusade to interrupt every animate spell, that usually pisses them off.
hellchan
well,he did say how specific what this build is for.i think some minion or corpse denial skills hould be removed though. eg if you keep denying them corpses, wont they have no minions ---> rendering u useless? how bout hmm adding some skills that use corpses to your benefit maybe wells, since you have no method of direct damage.
i agree mms are weak though , so much more to pve
i agree mms are weak though , so much more to pve