Guild Wars Titles & Title track

I am furious.

Survivor Titles (as posted in Guru):

Experience Titles

* Survivor - 140,600 experience points reached without dying.
* Indomitable Survivor - 587,500 experience points reached without dying.
* Legendary Survivor - 1,337,500 experience points reached without dying.

My argument:

Where does it say that you cannot die "ever" in order to get these titles? Wouldn't it be fair to say that a person (such as I) who would really like to get this title, can try as many times as possible? Wouldn't that be more a challenge than trying once every 6 months (as per new accounts, etc.)?

I did not know that you could "never" die in order to get this title. I missed out on many events -to include the double experience weekends, double xp, double faction, and green drops because I was under the assumption that because it is not specified that you can "never" die, I actually though I'd try it out. It is the only title that interested me, and in all honesty, it is almost impossible to achieve the Legendary Survivor title with a beginner character, and even if it was somewhat feasable, what is the fun in that, knowing that if you screw up somewhere you have to wait another 100 hours or so, on a brand new character in order to maybe get there!

I would appreciate it, if someone with enough pull made this happen. I spent several hundred thousand gold buying scrolls, not to mention loss of opportunities because of this "wording" issue where the word "ever" was omitted. I do not play WoW, Ultima, SwG, or any other game other than Guild Wars, and I would really like to be compensated for all this time loss. Compensated how? By reworking these 3 particular titles, so that you can try out for them indefinately, die or not.

If you feel the need to reply to this thread please do so with mature responses to the issue, and for those DeVs who see this... thank you for your time.

You can try as many times you want by making new characters. If you're angry, just imagine all the people that happened to die before they even implimented titles.

/sign (I suppose..)


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For clarification what he's basically saying is that instead of being ineligible for the title once you die; the xp counter is just reset to 0xp without dieing.
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But for that to work, if you had already earned a title you would lose it if you died unless it was the max title. Otherwise it wouldn't even be counting xp without dieing but rather just xp earned in general...

I always wonder about the Survivor, and why some people are interested or obsess with them. But I guess its something to show how uber you are, and a self induce way to add more challenge and playing content to the game...

But overall, re-setting the tracker for Survivor (or some other title) is a good idea. Might have an NPC to talk to to get "started" or re-started on such titles. (or as some has request, a way to remove some unfinish titles in the title window). Also the wording could be a bit more clearer.

/unsigned

The wording is quite clear, and for anyone that doubts... They will realize it when the title track does not activate. Then they will look on Wiki and see that /deaths must equal zero. Survivor should not be changed at all. As a former D2 Hardcore player, I love the title. Some people complain that it goes against how the game is supposed to be played. But contrary to that belief, as a survivor teams were lucky to have me.

If you spent so much money, time, and effort working on this why didn't you make sure you understood the requirements of the title a little bit better? If you were the least bit confused as to what was required or if the terminology was a bit 'ify' I'd make sure what was required before I dumped a ton of cash on trying to get this title.

This is essentially like someone saying they spent 1million gold on Canthan keys and then finding out that those chests don't count towards the treasure hunter title. And although high-end chests can be a vague description, there is nothing to stop someone from asking what exactly this means for clarity.

As for there being a way to remove your deaths or to start over, it's rather unfair to people who got their through hard work and effort. Because if you reset your deaths or xp you'd still be left with all your skills, armor, and weapons to help aid you. Where-as, the people who actually worked towards it did so from the begining with limit armor, weps, and skills. And while there are those that are run or just power lvl'd to get their title there are also those who work through the title on their own.

/notsigned

This has been suggested multiple times before and should be changed because the implementation of it has been fundamentally messed up from day 1 since old characters never had a chance to get the title.

As for Wiki reference, it did not state that properly until several weeks after the title came out. I know I spent several weeks trying to get it on my old character because before then based on the Wiki wording it made it seem like every character had a chance to get it. Which was blatantly untrue and wasted a lot of people's time and energy for many weeks.

This is at least the 4th separate thread on this board complaining about this. It comes up time and time again precisely because it needs to be fixed.

/signed

Sorry but wow. For a start its called "Survivor"
If you wanted to get these titles you must have heard or read about about how much XP you need for it and im sure it would have mentioned it there.

It does not show up on the title track so the only way to know about it is through researching, you obviously didnt do enough.

/notsigned

You can try for this title as many times as you want, you've just got to make a new character to do it. If they changed it so that older characters could get it or the counter got reset it'd make the title totally worthless.

You want the title but you don't seem to be willing to do what it takes to get it. The sad thing is that if they did change the title the way you suggest you probably wouldn't want it anymore because everyone would have it.

It's a shame you spent all that time and money on trying but a little research or even just asking someone could've saved you all that grief.

/signed

*shrug* Just seems fair.

No, they wouldn't.

^^ Agree with this guy, was going to mention hardcore characters in D2 lol.

If you really want it, remake your characters. If that price is too high for you, tough.

lets say they do change it to what he wants, then id say theyd have to make a new title for never diein called "immortal"

I don't kow what to think about this. If we're talking about the OP's request, then I won't sign because the wording is clear enough. However it's indeed unfair for the old characters, created before titles exist, who cannot get this title. But still, that's not a big deal.

/Signed

It should have been like that from the start. It isn't fair that old characters can't get the title just because they were created before titles existed. ANet clearly weren't thinking about the effect on old characters when they made this title.

I also agree that any stretch of 1337500 experience without dying should get you the legendary survivor title. Maybe marginally more challenging starting at lv 1 than level 20 though lv 1 fights are trivial and continue to be so until lv 20 but the real crime is any old character has no possibility of ever obtaining this. But frankly this title is pretty simple to get regardless.

There is basically zero fundamental difference between starting a new character and getting the required XP without dying once, and using an old character and getting the required XP consecutive without dying again. It should be changed to allow old characters, simply for that reason.

The idea behind the change is not to avoid having to recreate a survivor character that just died on you. I presume that any character with 0 deaths was made for the purpose of this title and, if they died, you wouldn't have spent hundreds or thousands of hours on other titles before beginning and a delete/remake would not be any different from just an XP reset. What it would be there for is to allow all your prized, trophy characters who you played for the maaanny months before titles were even announced to have the chance to achieve it. Who wants to delete a character with 2000 play hours and who knows what else devoted to it?

/not signed. As said earlier, the title implies that you achieved it beginning to end, with all of the growing pains of a typical character (i.e. starting out with crap armor and poor skills, etal).

I disagree completely.

A level 20 player, with already maxed out armor, runes, weapons, skills, many elite skills, etc, is in a far far stronger position to get it than a new player. You can just head right off and start farming and already have the best protection and builds at your disposal.

Whereas a new char has to fight his way through the early game in lower level armors, has to complete missions you have already completed, has to deal with lesser skills until he can purchase/unlock better ones, has to beat his doppleganer.. ALL that without dying.

I sincerley hope that ANET refuses to ever change this. It's just fine the way it is, and you guys that keep moaning about it are being big babies. Make a new char to replace one of your existing ones, work up to the title, and then let the new char replace the old one. Please ANET, don't take away the work that many of us have put into our Survivor chars just because these guys are crying a river about it every day.

It's a SURVIVOR title. Not a die a whole lot then get massive exp later on title.

/unsigned.


Personally I think it's a stupid title to begin with.

So I guess by your stance, a survivor character is everyone's first character? If I create a new character right now for the purposes of survivor, I'll have a boat load of gold at my disposal to purchase whatever items I want for it. Further, your idea of having to fight through quests as a new character is actually a reason why it's EASIER to achieve than if you had a character who had already done most quests and missions. While a new character has access to all of that cheap and plentiful XP, an existing, older character who's done all that prior will not and, consequently, will have to settle for accumulating their XP mostly through enemy slaughtering and possibly some random elite capping.

Just to reiterate though, my reason for being PRO this change is that, though I did create a brand new character and achieve level 3 survivor with it, I also have a character that's been around since day 1, has great customized items and armors, has every elite skill capped, all of both continents mapped and missions + bonuses completed, and yet can never achieve this title himself.

As a compromise, would those who are opposed to changing the mechanic be FOR it if, say, you were only given one chance per character to flip a switch? For example, an existing character who's died 1743 times through the course of experimenting and running around the continents has at his disposal a "switch" that, when flipped, allows him to begin his progress toward the title but then can never flip it again if things go badly. In this way, you're still given the opportunity to achieve the title on every character you've ever maintained, but the same ultimatum of "don't die, or else..." will still exist. A death won't mean simply starting the accrual process at 0 again, it will mean finality for that particular character.

/NOTSIGNED

I got the survivor tiltle by earning it. From lvl one to 20 no deaths. To make it a "I died but then i got a ton of xp killing something lame over and over" so now i am a survior is foolish. It destoys what the title means. If you cant get the title or your upset that your "i played the beta" char died to bad stfu build a new char and get your title or stop trying cause you just suck. The game AI is fairly predictable a R/Mo can get survior (1) in about 2 days. I know this because thats what i used and how long it took me. If I ever see a A/anything with survivor in PvP i am running the other way though.

~the Rat survivor~

Agreed. There have probably been ppl who left a game when they were about to die. No one cares about this title why do so many ppl waste their time on it... most survivors probably justed 55'ed it.

Some of us have the odd compulsion to do so the 'right' way (not 55ing, farming, etc.) just to show we can. I must say when I started my assassin that idea occurred to me to make him a 1337500 survivor just to show people that it is possible...a lot of people play assassins like tanks. He's still a candidate but I have been a bit lazy with him so he sn't there yet - just shy of Indomitable. Can anyone else tell I did it without gimmicks? No. But I do and it is still something to try.

On a side note, not really sure whether I am for the rollover on the survivor bar when you die. I'll admit, I used to like the idea for my 6 8+ month old chars that were there long before titles came along but I can see both sides. One thing I do know is that it can be a bit painful to lose your survivor candidate due to lag sometimes. (Oh yes, and I mean actual lag rather than the 'imagined' lag that gets blamed for almost everything in the game...how often can it possibly occur? )

This is pretty much the only acceptable change. Keeping the difficulty of "don't die, tough luck" while letting the older characters give it a try.

Also, given that Anet knows exactly how old your characters are (birthday presents), they'd probably even be able to restrict the use of this "switch" to those who were created prior to the release of titles. What I had envisioned was for it to be an NPC, and there are obviously logical checks for those based on things like current faction...this wouldn't be so far-fetched.

I could make a defensible claim that ANY character earning 1.4m experience while dying less than 5 times (arbitrarily chosen) is a "Survivor". To be honest, a title awarded for FEWEST deaths is far more indicative of skill that a ZERO death title. People that die rarely, are probably good players. Whereas the Survivor title says NOTHING about your skill.

What I see in these threads are people who basically have achieved the Survivor title and DON'T want others to get the title. To them it's not a badge of personal achievement, it's a symbol of superiority. It's a piece of bling that new characters can get that old 'senior' characters cannot, and they don't want to give that up. It's not about fairness, it's about "pwnage".

The Cartographer titles were modified twice to allow existing characters to achieve them. Did the Cartographers complain? I don't remember any complaints, and even if there was complaints, they weren't remotely as vocal as Survivors.

There are no pre-searing titles....because you can't go back.

There would be no end to the whining if "Divine Aura" was a title, or "Beta Player", or if there were titles awarded for Birthdays, or any title that COULD NOT be achieved on new characters.

There are NO OTHER "unobtainable" titles. The idea of an unobtainable title goes against everything ArenaNet has done with GW! (collector items, cheap greens, etc)

Survivor does NOT equate to Hardcore!

Hardcore characters must not only select "Hardcore" on the character creation screen, but most importantly.....Hardcore characters DIE PERMANENTLY if they EVER die!

So quit whining about being "Hardcore". So many people are eager to get the title, but how many Survivors have been actively pushing for ArenaNet to change the title so characters would be actively DELETED upon death? Sword cuts both way, doesn't it?

If "Survivors" were permanently deleted when they died, even if they had already maxed the title, then I might feel differently. But they don't. The only thing that stops is the Survivor title track.

Even if people choose to delete the toon, they 'loot' the character of items, money and runes before doing so. That's a far cry from instant deletion....from total loss.

Finally, regarding the difficulty of getting a Level 1 character vs. obtaining it on a Level 20 toon....give me a break! Level 1 characters have to fight Level 0 and 1 Mantises or Devourers. Level 20 characters are fighting opponents of level 20-31, with MUCH larger mob sizes. Big difference. Much harder at level 20.

Additionally, Level 20 characters are already Ascended, have already completed the majority of their quests and (most likely) have capped many elite skills......all of which are the big experience earners.

The armor and runes are irrelevant because you can obtain max armor and runes for level 1 characters! I'll bet most Survivors got their characters run to Kaineng/Droks got armored/runed and THEN started the title. Of course, they'll never admit that because they "earned" the title.

It should be changed so that ANY stretch of 1.4 Million experience earns the title. The alternate suggestion of allowing existing characters to 'reset' their death count One-Time-Only is the bare minimum of resolutions.

the bold parts describe exactly how i feel about this.

/Signed

unsigned. it's like this since 6 months now. get over it. they wont screw all the ppl that worked for this making it easily accessible for anyone and their mothers

It might be a silly title to some, but its a challenge! My mesmer is well on her way to level 2 with only 1 close death due to dumb AI on the henchies side.

I think the title should stay as is, you grow into the title starting a new character. If you could simply "reset the clock" to start again, well then I guess we'd soon have every Tom, Dick and Harry as Legendary Survivor. Ive already died once (250k XP), and re-created my character so I could achieve this title, yes it is a big investment, both money and time, but if you want it that badly, then don't complain about the rules. I think the explanation has always been clear enough, and there has certainly been enough articles giving tips and advice on achieving this.

GL, HF

/signed

Give us at least one character death reset.