A skill-by-skill listing of Elementalist skills that need fixing - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

19 Oct 2006 at 19:10 - 41

Riotgear:

Quote:

Burning for 7 seconds is effectively a Conjure Phantasm that's easier to remove. Whoopie. It's also an ELITE!

If you want a simple, balanced change to make them tremendously more useful, here it is: If the condition fails, DON'T CAUSE EXHAUSTION! Seeing an elite wind up being an exhausting Flare is absolutely pathetic.

The value of Mind Burns' 7 seconds of burning is around 100 damage that can not be mitigated by armour. Then there's the 126 damage you could potentially get from just the skill alone. 200+ potential damage is not insignificant. It's no secret that this spell causes exhaustion, so casting it excessively and becoming overly exhausted for no reason is stupid.
You make it sound like it's rocket science to achieve the condition. If you have less than 40 energy, avoid using it on casters, and quite possibly avoid idle, opposing elementalists full stop. It's so simple.

Quote:

What other class matchups does this "relationship" apply to? I'm having a difficult time thinking of another matchup that's so obviously a near-automatic loss. A ranger doesn't NEED to be "specced out" for interrupts to screw an ele, they need to bring two skills: Savage shot and distracting shot. They also need to drink some coffee in the morning so they can time those to at fit within the 2-second cast times.

I didn't say anything about specific class match-ups. I was refering to the mechanics of play...

Spell caster; Casting spells of 1 second or over < Interrupter; Using 1/2 second or lower interrupts.

Spell caster; Casting spells of any kind < Hexer; Using hexes that damage or incapacitate users of spells.

physical attacker; Needing to get to, and/or strike his target < Any enemy; With blinding ability. Or the means to dramatically reduce successful strikes.

Melee attacker; Needing to get to, and strike his target < Any enemy: With the ability to snare with either condition or hex, for extended periods of time.

Quote:

You could say the same thing about Backfire, it's the same idea: You present them with two alternatives: Take a crapload of damage, or stop attacking completely. Either is extremely favorable to you.

Well of course. I wasn't putting down SS. Just highlighting a condition that nulifies it's damage.

@Zuranthium:

Your very right. In the right conditions, it is a very desirable thing to have. Though I think having that opponent dead or dying quickly is far more useful in most situations. For example an Elementalist hexed with SS could simply step back from the battle (away from adjacent allies) and spam Heal Party quite happily, despite the hex.

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

19 Oct 2006 at 20:16 - 42

That same Elementalist could spam Heal Party with constant burning on themselves just as easily. Plus you'd have to chase that Elementalist to the opposing back line in order to constantly hit him with your fire attacks and cause the burning. So I don't see your point.

Quote:

The value of Mind Burns' 7 seconds of burning is around 100 damage that can not be mitigated by armour. Then there's the 126 damage you could potentially get from just the skill alone. 200+ potential damage is not insignificant. It's no secret that this spell causes exhaustion, so casting it excessively and becoming overly exhausted for no reason is stupid.
You make it sound like it's rocket science to achieve the condition. If you have less than 40 energy, avoid using it on casters, and quite possibly avoid idle, opposing elementalists full stop. It's so simple.

You can't just "avoid" using it on casters, though. What if you have to spike down a Monk to win the game? Mind Burn will often do a measly 63 damage (if they have absolutely no protection) and just exhaust you even more. It's not quite good enough to use on a character for serious matches right now. That's why I suggested 6 seconds of burning all the time instead of 7 only if you are at the correct amount of energy in relation to your opponent.

Xpl0iter

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Just A Digital Pimp Slap [DPS] - Guild Co-Leader

E/

19 Oct 2006 at 22:06 - 43

ah, been long since i posted any thing on guru. Was busy due to exams

Overall, Great suggestions Zuranthium.

sigh* waiting for nightfall and my core skills fixed so badly

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

20 Oct 2006 at 04:00 - 44

For Mind spells I think they should either remove exhaustion and raise the energy cost a bit or only cause exhaustion if the energy condition bonus is met.

heroajax1

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

By Any Other Name [Rose]

W/

20 Oct 2006 at 04:34 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I80% of these skills never see play in serious PvP. That alone should be enough for anyone to question if they are balanced well enough. I say "no" and these are my solutions.

I absolutely agree.

Ele's need a serious buff and anyone who's played one must be completely frustrated with the distinct lack of damage from what is supposed to be the heaviest damage dealer in the game. I'm basically running an echo nuker in pve and a blinding/snaring bot for pvp who supports the monks by spamming heal party.

My only concern about some of the buffs would be to the ele bosses (who already do way too much damage) in Factions. Anyone concerned about the huge buffs to the AoE damage ... move! Get out of the searing heat/churning earth/firestorm/eruption

... whatever. You can't just stand there. Monsters don't, why do you?

Sigh, I miss my earth ele and air spiker. Tired of bombing things once a minute. Hope they listen to you.

Sol_Vie

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Boston, MA

Blood Of Orr [BoO]

20 Oct 2006 at 05:06 - 46

I'll agree with anyone that says eles need a buff, but for the most part these suggestions are just... well, I don't think they're what is needed. For one, there are a lot of skills here that you're overpowering. Secondly, there are some concept skills that you're messing with the concept of (i.e. Mind Shock/Burn/Freeze). I will grant that there are some good ideas in here though.

goeegoanna

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/Mo

20 Oct 2006 at 06:44 - 47

What I can say is...I think it's about time the Devs started putting some work into elements other the Fire. Earth for instance does not even have a weapon spell as the other elements do.
Earth 25 point skills do not have the effectiveness of the fire ones. Only having a secondary effect in a certain circumstance rather than certain. These skills need to have their cost reduced.

Noticing Fire, in Nightfall, has again received twice as many skills as the other elements. Fire has received three new elites where Water only has one and Earth and Air just two.
Please take the time to look at the other elements, especially Earth, they really do need some work.

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

20 Oct 2006 at 14:53 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol_Vie

I'll agree with anyone that says eles need a buff, but for the most part these suggestions are just... well, I don't think they're what is needed. For one, there are a lot of skills here that you're overpowering.

Exactly which ones. Describe. What do you think would be a good improvement on AOEs which are undeniably bad and other such blah spells?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol_Vie

Secondly, there are some concept skills that you're messing with the concept of (i.e. Mind Shock/Burn/Freeze). I will grant that there are some good ideas in here though.

Hmm, I don't really think I'm changing the concept of these at all? They still would do double damage when your energy is > than your opponents, which is the idea behind them. I don't see what's wrong with changing the concept of a skill somewhat anyway...look what they did to Shadow of Haste recently.

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

20 Oct 2006 at 22:13 - 49

Comments below:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

The one blanket statement I want to preface this with is that PBAOE spells (Aftershock, Inferno, etc.) should NOT have twice the after-cast time as compared to normal spells. Maybe 1/4 second extra but nothing more.

AIR

Chain Lightning - Increase to 15 energy and a 15 second recharge but remove exhaustion and decrease to a 2 second cast.
I would prefer not to see more chain lightning spikes again..

Conjure Lightning - Decrease to a 45 second recharge and increase the damage to 5 + rank in attribute.
Good idea, but probably only either decrease recharge or increase damage, not both. It'll be way overpowered.

Glimmering Mark - Reduce to a 1/4 second cast and 10 second recharge.

Gust - Reduce to a 1 second cast and 7 second recharge.

Lightning Hammer - Reduce to 15 energy.
Maybe reduce it to 20 though there aren't any 20 skills, 15 is way too low since it can be easily used as a more consistent lightning orb spike.

Lightning Javelin - Decrease to a 3/4 sec cast, make the projectile arc normal instead of like a longbow, and give a small damage increase (equal to shock).

Lightning Orb - Make the spell "follow" your target better than a normal projectile.
Please don't, it's strong enough as is. Plus, how would we play dodgeball if they implemented that? :P

Lightning Touch - Reduce to 10 energy.

Lightning Surge - Give the damage 25% armor penetration and decrease casting time to 1 second.

Mind Shock - Cause knockdown even if the energy requirement is not met.
Um, no. That would be way overpowered

Ride the Lightning - Remove exhaustion and make the damage equal to Lightning Orb.

Shock Arrow - Remove the recharge time and increase damage to 10 + (Attribute Rank multiplied by 2).

Teinai's Wind / Whirlwind - Slight damage increase (equal to Gust) and slight recharge decrease to 7 sec.

EARTH

Ash Blast - Increase damage to 10 + (Attribute Rank multiplied by 3).

Churning Earth - Reduce to 20 energy, 2 second cast, and 15 second recharge.

Crystal Wave / Teinai's Crystals - Increase AOE to Nearby and decrease recharge to 15 seconds.

Dragon's Stomp / Earthquake - Increase AOE to "In The Area".

Eruption - Reduce to 20 energy, 2 second cast, 15 second recharge, and change secondary effect to be 5 seconds of blindness on every hit.

Grasping Earth - Remove the armor bonus it gives to hexed foes.

Iron Mist - Decrease to 5 energy and slight duration increase to 5 + Attribute Rank.
Ugh, that'd make those monsters even more overpowered

Magnetic Aura - Reduce recharge to 45 seconds.

Shockwave - Increase damage to a max of 60 per hit at 16 Earth Magic and decrease recharge to 15 seconds.

Sliver Armor - Increase overall duration to 1 + Attribute Rank and slightly increase blocking % to 25 + (Attribute Rank multiplied by 2).
Please, no. This'll just make farming way too easy.

Unsteady Ground - Reduce to 10 energy and a 15 second recharge.

Ward Against Elements - Reduce to 10 energy.

FIRE

Bed of Coals - Reduce to a 20 sec recharge.

Breath of Fire - Reduce to a 1 second cast and 15 second recharge.

Burning Speed - Make it a stance.

Conjure Flame - Decrease to a 45 second recharge and increase the damage to 5 + rank in attribute.

Double Dragon - Remove the exhaustion, reduce to 10 energy and a 15 second recharge, and have the second damage hit come 1 second after the first instead of 2 seconds after.

Firestorm - Increase the AOE to Nearby and decrease to a 20 second recharge.

Incendiary Bonds - Increase the damage to be equal to Fireball.

Inferno - Reduce to a 10 second recharge.
Starburstway would be too strong then.

Lava Arrows - Remove the half range component and increase damage by 6 points.

Lava Font - Reduce to a 1 second cast time.

Meteor - Increase to 10 Energy but decrease to a 2 second cast and 20 second recharge.
I like that idea.

Mark of Rodgort - Reduce to 20 energy and cause burning on all adjacent foes when activated.

Meteor Shower - Increase AOE to nearby (no joke).

Mind Burn - Reduce burning duration by 1 second but cause it even if the energy requirement is not met.
Maybe need to reduce burning by 2 sec.

Phoenix - Decrease to 10 energy, 2 second cast, 20 second recharge, and have the projectile damage be equal to the PBAOE damage.

Rodgort's Invocation - Increase damage to be equal to Inferno.

Searing Heat / Teinai's Heat - Decrease to 20 energy, 2 second cast, 15 second recharge, and cause 3 seconds of burning on every hit.

Smoldering Embers - Reduce casting time to 1 second.

WATER

Armor of Frost - Remove the negative penalty against fire damage and reduce the recharge to 30 seconds.

Conjure Frost - Decrease to a 45 second recharge and increase the damage to 5 + rank in attribute.

Frozen Burst - Reduce to a 20 second recharge.

Ice Prison / Teinai's Prison - Reduce to a 1 second cast.

Ice Spikes - Slight damage increase (equal to Deep Freeze).

Icy Prism - Decrease to 5 energy and slighty increase damage (equal to Ice Spear).

Maelstrom - Increase AOE to nearby.

Mind Freeze - Cause snare effect even if the energy requirement is not met and increase damage on each hit to 5 + (Attribute Rank multiplied by 3).

Rust - Reduce to a 1 second cast and 10 second recharge.

Shard Storm - Slight damage increase (equal to Ice Spear).

Shatterstone - Reduce to 10 energy and a 1 second cast, make the first burst of damage equal to the second, change to an AOE spell with "adjacent" range, and cause each hit to interrupt the foes' actions.

Swirling Aura - Decrease to 5 energy, 1/4 second cast, 45 second recharge, and increase to a 75% block rate.

Vapor Blade - Reduce to 10 energy.

Ward Against Harm - Decrease to 10 energy and slightly increase the overall bonus vs. non-fire damage (set it to half of the bonus vs. fire).

Water Trident - Reduce to a 2 second recharge.

ENERGY STORAGE -- suggestion -- In addition to the max energy gain, this attribute should give the caster back a certain % of energy (2% + Attribute Rank) on any Elem spell they cast.

Energy Boon - Slight decrease in energy gain but remove the exhaustion.

Ether Renewal - 1 second duration increase.

NO ATTRIBUTE

Glyph of Lesser Energy - Reduce to a 20 second recharge.

Glyph of Elemental Power - Should give you 3 energy back when the spell is cast.

Second Wind - Add 5 energy to the amount given back.

----------------

Random funny note - Teinai must have been a bad mage because I think all of his spells need a boost, LMAO.

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

21 Oct 2006 at 00:15 - 50

Aww, cmon, you know you wanna see some Chain Lightning action happening! Especially with with the new Elite form of the spell that's coming out soon (although it currently sucks and needs improvement).

Elruid

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

21 Oct 2006 at 00:40 - 51

For a long time now I've thought elemental spell damage should be armor ignoring. And if it was, the current +armor bonuses would still work like they do now but the base armor class of equipment would no longer protect against elemental spell damage. That's how it's already with 60 AL armor anyways but would help tremendously against high end mobs and heavy armored players.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

21 Oct 2006 at 12:11 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elruid

For a long time now I've thought elemental spell damage should be armor ignoring. And if it was, the current +armor bonuses would still work like they do now but the base armor class of equipment would no longer protect against elemental spell damage. That's how it's already with 60 AL armor anyways but would help tremendously against high end mobs and heavy armored players.

That would severely nerf +elemental armour bonuses. Really, how often are you THAT scared of non-spell elemental damage? Maybe when someone is using an elemental hilt or Kindle Arrows or something like that...

On a related note, I think the lack of a Conjure Earth skill was deliberate - first, there's the question of just what you'd be conjuring (all the others have an obvious damaging element to them, while earth damage is mostly based around the movement of an element that's harmless when inert - in fact, personally I think it would have been better to have not had Earth damage at all and simply used various types of Physical damage). Second, it fits the flavour that Earth is defensive focussed enough not to have a long-term damage increasing buff - but on the other hand, it does have the only Elementalist defensive buffs that can be maintained constantly, even if Armour of Earth does have a downside.

I noticed a couple of people jumped on my observation about Nightfall skills. In fact, they're correct in pointing out that the Ele should be able to stand without Nightfall - I'd like to point out that I didn't quite shoot. On the other hand, we should keep in mind what is coming before making huge buffs around the board, lest we end up with something decidedly overpowered afterwards. Also, I'm more inclined to making incremental adjustments than making big sweeping changes that could end up just making the situation worse. (And I must say that while some of the OP's examples do appear to be in need of a buff, some others are skills I'm quite happy with as they are - in fact, some have even surprised me by being buffed in the past.)

One thing, however, that did just re-strike me that I first noticed when I first used the skill - the mechanics for Phoenix don't really fit the description or the graphics. I know it doesn't express say so on the description, but I've always thought that the point-blank compliment of the damage should happen while the phoenix was in the process of "rising at your location" - in other words, at some point during the casting of the spell - rather than having the full effect of the spell at once. I'm not sure if this would actually be an improvement (makes it harder to run from and means that the spell may not be a total failure if interrupted, but on the otherhand reducing it's spike potential somewhat), but I think itwould sbe interesting thematically as well as mechanically.

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

21 Oct 2006 at 19:04 - 53

Actually, dual phase spell damage and casting time would be an awsome mechanic to some skills. expecially with pheonix, it would be great if the area damage hit after one second, and the ranged damage hit after 2 seconds.

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

21 Oct 2006 at 19:49 - 54

I had actually thought about that as well but then realized it would be abusable. You cast for a second, the enemy takes the area damage, then you cancel the spell and would be able to automatically use it again. 119 spammable damage for 10 energy as a non-elite. Hehe, that would be incredibly overpowered.

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

22 Oct 2006 at 00:30 - 55

If it has a dual casting phase than it would be interrupted if you only cast it half way, and suffer recast. Obviously, you can't have a spell which can do half damage than cancel and repeat, why do people always bring up the broken example instead of defecting to the obvious answer. Even if you could cancel it and repeat, it would cost 15 energy every time for an adjacent damage spell, that isn't exactly cost friendly.

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

22 Oct 2006 at 01:06 - 56

It would cost 10 energy every time if we listen to my suggestion.

Yes, you could have it suffer recast after halfway through, but then it would also force you into that 20 seconds of recharge if you were just using it for the projectile at the time and wanted to cancel after the halfway mark. There's really no clean way of making it work 100% properly but I do love the idea anyway and would probably prefer it to be changed as such even with no-going-back-now after the first second of casting.

Sariel V

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2006

Coke Mule Immigrants

A/

26 Oct 2006 at 06:50 - 57

They just updated a boatload of skills. Let's see if you and ANet are on the same page.

(with apologies on the formatting...)

AIR

Quote:

Chain Lightning - Increase to 15 energy and a 15 second recharge but remove exhaustion and decrease to a 2 second cast.

no change

Quote:

Conjure Lightning - Decrease to a 45 second recharge and increase the damage to 5 + rank in attribute.

Decreased to 30 second recharge. Damage boost 1-21

Quote:

Glimmering Mark - Reduce to a 1/4 second cast and 10 second recharge.

Casting time unchanged. Recharge 5 seconds. Duration 5 seconds.

Quote:

Gust - Reduce to a 1 second cast and 7 second recharge.

Casting time now 1 second.

Quote:

Lightning Hammer - Reduce to 15 energy.

no change

Quote:

Lightning Javelin - Decrease to a 3/4 sec cast, make the projectile arc normal instead of like a longbow, and give a small damage increase (equal to shock).

decreased cost to 5

Quote:

Lightning Orb - Make the spell "follow" your target better than a normal projectile.

no change

Quote:

Lightning Touch - Reduce to 10 energy.

Reduced to 5 energy.

Quote:

Lightning Surge - Give the damage 25% armor penetration and decrease casting time to 1 second.

Removed exhaustion. Increased cost to 10.

Quote:

Mind Shock - Cause knockdown even if the energy requirement is not met.

Ride the Lightning - Remove exhaustion and make the damage equal to Lightning Orb.

no changes.

Quote:

Shock Arrow - Remove the recharge time and increase damage to 10 + (Attribute Rank multiplied by 2).

Damage now 5-45.

Quote:

Teinai's Wind / Whirlwind - Slight damage increase (equal to Gust) and slight recharge decrease to 7 sec.

No change.

EARTH

Quote:

Ash Blast - Increase damage to 10 + (Attribute Rank multiplied by 3).

Damage upped to 20-55. Blindness duration extended to 3-15 seconds.

Quote:

Churning Earth - Reduce to 20 energy, 2 second cast, and 15 second recharge.

Crystal Wave / Teinai's Crystals - Increase AOE to Nearby and decrease recharge to 15 seconds.

Dragon's Stomp / Earthquake - Increase AOE to "In The Area".

No change

Quote:

Eruption - Reduce to 20 energy, 2 second cast, 15 second recharge, and change secondary effect to be 5 seconds of blindness on every hit.

Casting time now 2 seconds. No other changes.

Quote:

Grasping Earth - Remove the armor bonus it gives to hexed foes.

Reduced recharge time to 12 seconds. No other changes.

Quote:

Iron Mist - Decrease to 5 energy and slight duration increase to 5 + Attribute Rank.

Magnetic Aura - Reduce recharge to 45 seconds.

Shockwave - Increase damage to a max of 60 per hit at 16 Earth Magic and decrease recharge to 15 seconds.

Sliver Armor - Increase overall duration to 1 + Attribute Rank and slightly increase blocking % to 25 + (Attribute Rank multiplied by 2).

Unsteady Ground - Reduce to 10 energy and a 15 second recharge.

Ward Against Elements - Reduce to 10 energy.

No changes to any of these

FIRE

Quote:

Bed of Coals - Reduce to a 20 sec recharge.

Breath of Fire - Reduce to a 1 second cast and 15 second recharge.

Burning Speed - Make it a stance.

No changes

Quote:

Conjure Flame - Decrease to a 45 second recharge and increase the damage to 5 + rank in attribute.

Decreased to 30 second recharge. Damage boost 1-21

Quote:

Double Dragon - Remove the exhaustion, reduce to 10 energy and a 15 second recharge, and have the second damage hit come 1 second after the first instead of 2 seconds after.

Removed Exhaustion. No other changes

Quote:

Firestorm - Increase the AOE to Nearby and decrease to a 20 second recharge.

Incendiary Bonds - Increase the damage to be equal to Fireball.

No changes

Quote:

Inferno - Reduce to a 10 second recharge.

Recharge reduced to 10 seconds

Quote:

Lava Arrows - Remove the half range component and increase damage by 6 points.

Damage increased to 10-40

Quote:

Lava Font - Reduce to a 1 second cast time.

Damage increased to 5-50.

Quote:

Meteor - Increase to 10 Energy but decrease to a 2 second cast and 20 second recharge.

No change.

Quote:

Mark of Rodgort - Reduce to 20 energy and cause burning on all adjacent foes when activated.

Nerfed? Hex is cast on all foes adjacent to target foe. Burning is caused individually when a hexed foe is struck with fire damage.

Quote:

Meteor Shower - Increase AOE to nearby (no joke).

Mind Burn - Reduce burning duration by 1 second but cause it even if the energy requirement is not met.

No changes

Quote:

Phoenix - Decrease to 10 energy, 2 second cast, 20 second recharge, and have the projectile damage be equal to the PBAOE damage.

Decreased recharge time to 10 seconds No other changes

Quote:

Rodgort's Invocation - Increase damage to be equal to Inferno.

No change

Quote:

Searing Heat / Teinai's Heat - Decrease to 20 energy, 2 second cast, 15 second recharge, and cause 3 seconds of burning on every hit.

Casting time 2 seconds

Quote:

Smoldering Embers - Reduce casting time to 1 second.

Damage increased to 15-75.

WATER

Quote:

Armor of Frost - Remove the negative penalty against fire damage and reduce the recharge to 30 seconds.

Removed the negative penalty against fire damage

Quote:

Conjure Frost - Decrease to a 45 second recharge and increase the damage to 5 + rank in attribute.

Decreased to 30 second recharge. Damage boost 1-21

Quote:

Frozen Burst - Reduce to a 20 second recharge.

Ice Prison / Teinai's Prison - Reduce to a 1 second cast.

Ice Spikes - Slight damage increase (equal to Deep Freeze).

Icy Prism - Decrease to 5 energy and slighty increase damage (equal to Ice Spear).

Maelstrom - Increase AOE to nearby.

Mind Freeze - Cause snare effect even if the energy requirement is not met and increase damage on each hit to 5 + (Attribute Rank multiplied by 3).

Rust - Reduce to a 1 second cast and 10 second recharge.

Shard Storm - Slight damage increase (equal to Ice Spear).

No changes to any of these

Quote:

Shatterstone - Reduce to 10 energy and a 1 second cast, make the first burst of damage equal to the second, change to an AOE spell with "adjacent" range, and cause each hit to interrupt the foes' actions.

Made the first burst of damage equal to the second. Damage increased to 25-100

Quote:

Swirling Aura - Decrease to 5 energy, 1/4 second cast, 45 second recharge, and increase to a 75% block rate.

No change

Quote:

Vapor Blade - Reduce to 10 energy.

Damage increased to 15-135.

Quote:

Ward Against Harm - Decrease to 10 energy and slightly increase the overall bonus vs. non-fire damage (set it to half of the bonus vs. fire).

Water Trident - Reduce to a 2 second recharge.

No changes

ENERGY STORAGE

Quote:

-- suggestion -- In addition to the max energy gain, this attribute should give the caster back a certain % of energy (2% + Attribute Rank) on any Elem spell they cast.

Energy Boon - Slight decrease in energy gain but remove the exhaustion.

Ether Renewal - 1 second duration increase.

No changes to any of these

NO ATTRIBUTE

Quote:

Glyph of Lesser Energy - Reduce to a 20 second recharge.

Now works for two spells or 15 seconds.

Quote:

Glyph of Elemental Power - Should give you 3 energy back when the spell is cast.

Now works for 5 spells or 15 seconds. Recharge upped to 15 seconds.

Quote:

Second Wind - Add 5 energy to the amount given back.

No change

So you got.... maybe a tenth of the improvements you asked for. :/

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

26 Oct 2006 at 16:24 - 58

I LOVE updates, woot!

They improved Mark of Rodgort, Lightning Touch, Grasping Earth, and Glyph of Lesser Energy even more than I suggested, that's cool.

One change was exactly what I envisioned....INFERNO. Some spells were changed to pretty much exactly what I suggested, with just a 1 or 2 point difference in the damage (Shock Arrow, Lava Arrows, Ash Blast, Conjure "Element" spells).

The energy decrease to Lightning Javelin is just fine instead of what I suggested, as is the change to Glyph of Elemental Power. I still think I would have preferred Lava Font at the old damage and with a 1 second cast, but the damage it does now is really nice.

The extra point of energy gain to the Attunments was nice but the recharge should be decreased to 30 seconds. I'm definitely on the "no enchantment should recharge slower than 30 seconds" boat. Except for very special cases like SHADOW FORM.

Shatterstone and Vapor Blade.....ummmmmmmm, okay. Apparently they wanted WATER SPIKE to become a new playing style.

The 25 energy AOE-over-time spells are still useless.

Overall it was at least a step in the right direction!

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

26 Oct 2006 at 20:30 - 59

Congrat's

.

Thanks you Anet for Mark! Fantastic update. Lightning Touch. Yes! Ash Blast; Nice. I am a devoted Water elementalist, so it goes without saying that I am ecstatic. Can you say Glyph of Elemental Power>Shatterstone>Vapor Blade, 425 damage? Fun times ^_^. Thanks again...

Edit: Naughty guildWiki. That's actually 389 damage.

Not A Fifty Five

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Creating guild

Mo/

26 Oct 2006 at 21:44 - 60

Hi, didnt read all the comments cause I'm lazy but yeah eles need a buff even after the update -.-. NOBODY uses them in a good gvg/hoh team except for flash (now blind surge, andnow people will prolly never use them period cause blind surge alows for ele secondary to use it rly). Relying on attunements is a joke, they get stripped too often. Maelstrom as adjacent?!?!?! A) look at the freaking name, does adjacent and maelstrom coincide? and B) JUst no. plain no. I can't believe people like iwayers use this to get people out of wards, considering adjacent is like 4 times smaller area than wards.

But yeah I like the update ^^

Oh and there's a reason PBAoE is twice the aftercast. Its for balance. These spells WOULD be up to 3 second cast except they basically had to be reduced so you can effectively use them right next to a target and have him take the hit. Hence the extra time was prolyl just added as aftercast.

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

26 Oct 2006 at 21:51 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Can you say Glyph of Elemental Power>Shatterstone>Vapor Blade, 425 damage? Fun times ^_^. Thanks again...

Edit: Naughty guildWiki. That's actually 389 damage.

EDIT: Damn, that sucks about Vapor Blade. It really only got a small boost and at 15 energy plus a chance of only 1/2 damage, I still probably won't use it. I think it needs to be only 25% less damage vs. an enchanted foe.

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

27 Oct 2006 at 00:19 - 62

You need to read the descriptions closer, Maelstorm is not adjacent, it hits all foes adjacent to an area, which is an one phase larger than an area.

I don't know if that is smaller or larger than a location, but IMO, with the cost and recast of these DoT spells, they should hit 50% more than a location, or have more reasonable costs and recasts so they can be used regularly.

Even worse off, mobs will now respond to AoE damage much more adequitely, they will not run if they are healthy or nearly killing you, and they will choose less vulnerable advance patterns so they are not as suceptable to AoE. AoE and DoT damage as a whole needs a generous buff. I will say they did decent with Double Dragon, now it isn't a massive waste of energy, but Adjacent foes is still crap, on Double Dragon and Lava Font. Enemies can easily escape way before they full damage is received, the 2 second cast time on Lava Font is a joke.

Anet didn't improve the recast or duration of Ice Hexing, They didn't improve the use of DoT and PBAoE spells, they did make alot of weak and useless skills a little better, but some of them are still far from effective, and the most significant function improvements to the way Elementist actually operates have not been improved either.

It is the same with Assassin, they did make some great skill adjustments and even an armor improvement which make the class much better, but the significant function issues remain unresolved.

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

27 Oct 2006 at 02:28 - 63

No, adjacent is adjacent. Maelstorm has a small radius.

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

27 Oct 2006 at 04:16 - 64

You haven't read the description of Firestorm and Meteor Shower lately have you, they also do damage to enemies adjacent to the area of the spell, and it certainly is not adjacent only.

This is the same boost they applied to almost all DoT spells a wile back to make them half way decent, the same time they added a fear factor to PvE creatures. I haven't tested Maelstorm lately, but Last time I checked, It hit an entire location just like all the other DoTs, and has the exact same radius description to.

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

27 Oct 2006 at 12:22 - 65

Umm...there are 3 sizes for all AOE spells like this:

"Adjacent"
"Nearby"
"In The Area"

The "location" is simply the point at which the spell is cast; that means nothing in terms of the area of the spell. So when it says all foes adjacent to the location of where the spell was cast, that simply means an adjacent radius and nothing more.

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

27 Oct 2006 at 14:13 - 66

Wow, thats BS. Last time I used my elementist all of those spells hit an entire area, now even firestorm and meteor shower only hit adjacent foes.

I could have swore the dummies used to say, adjacent, area, nearby and location, but I haven't used Elementist since Factions came out.

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

27 Oct 2006 at 15:24 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

Wow, thats BS. Last time I used my elementist all of those spells hit an entire area, now even firestorm and meteor shower only hit adjacent foes.

They have been hitting an adjacent area since the day the game was released, lol.

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

28 Oct 2006 at 03:31 - 68

No, Firestorm used to hit an area, it is in the prophecies guide, and I remember the area of DoT spells being adjusted quite well, because it was a major topic in past Elementist threads.

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

28 Oct 2006 at 04:47 - 69

Perhaps you are correct. All I remember about Firestorm is the skill used to have a looong cast and then they decreased it. If they changed the AOE it was like 16+ months ago and you obviously should seen by now that it was made smaller.

Symbol

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

28 Oct 2006 at 18:40 - 70

The AoE of firestorm was pathetic since day one.

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

29 Oct 2006 at 00:47 - 71

They all worked on an area for as long as I played elementist, which was til about Sorrows Furnace was released, I haven't even gotten him out much since Factions came out.

The DoT spells all suck, if they can't make the spell effective enough to hit an entire area and allow more target options, than they just need to reduce the cost, 15-25 energy often with exhaustion is just worthless, Rodgorts Invocation alone does way better Damage than any of them.

eloc_jcg

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Canada

Guards Of The Citadel [GotC]

E/Rt

29 Oct 2006 at 01:07 - 72

Your Searing Heat/Tenais one is fine but leave Meteor Shower and Fire Storm the way it is. I like them that way. Except mayb lower CT

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

29 Oct 2006 at 04:23 - 73

Lower cast time for Meteor Shower would be totally against the nature of the spell, imo.

And...you like Firestorm useless? Come again?

Zuranthium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Los Angeles

Black Rose Gaming [BR]

06 Nov 2006 at 05:39 - 74

Updated the first post!

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

07 Nov 2006 at 04:24 - 75

Whether the DoTs need to be adjacent or area wide to be balanced can be understood, but the cost and recast are for area wide spells, and if they arn't going to increase the radius to its original coverage than the cost needs to be lowered as well to compensate. Adjacent wide damage on a location is BS, if it is following an enemy or an allie that is different, like Balthazars Aura, if you chase an enemy, it will continue to damage them, but with locations, the enemy can run out of the effect, so it either needs to be frequent and economic, or have a wide effect. Either way, the cost and recast need to match the output, DoT are trash as they are, uses withstanding.

Priest Of Sin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Sitting upon Kerrigan's Throne.

Live For The Swarm [ZERG]

Me/N

07 Nov 2006 at 04:29 - 76

Why doesn't someone post a screenie of them taking -303 damage from Lightning Orb? I'm going to take one the next time i'm struck by a 5 energy skill for a quarter (or more) of my HP.

Imagine the following: Meteor Shower= Buffage. does 90 DPS and has KDs. That's 180 damage BEFORE THE TARGET CAN MOVE. And you can just FORGET about living if the Ele has echoed Meteor Shower. It'd be somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 damage, including a full 3 seconds of KD. Not fun. DOTS are not supposed to be insanely high damage, because they are used to soften up a wide group targets, not obliterate them. Want to wipe something off the face of the earth? Use air magic.

did a little research, results above.

Not A Fifty Five

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Creating guild

Mo/

07 Nov 2006 at 07:44 - 77

edit: aaaarg i should've read that post better nvm

But yeah. um.. reaffirming that eles suck atm XD

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

07 Nov 2006 at 07:52 - 78

Glyph of Essence - Should cause you to lose 10 energy instead of all energy.

what have you bin smokin?

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

07 Nov 2006 at 08:17 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin

Why doesn't someone post a screenie of them taking -303 damage from Lightning Orb? I'm going to take one the next time i'm struck by a 5 energy skill for a quarter (or more) of my HP.

Imagine the following: Meteor Shower= Buffage. does 90 DPS and has KDs. That's 180 damage BEFORE THE TARGET CAN MOVE. And you can just FORGET about living if the Ele has echoed Meteor Shower. It'd be somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 damage, including a full 3 seconds of KD. Not fun. DOTS are not supposed to be insanely high damage, because they are used to soften up a wide group targets, not obliterate them. Want to wipe something off the face of the earth? Use air magic.

did a little research, results above.

Your research is clearly bull. Have you made any comparisons to other possible sources? Warriors? Rangers? Paragons or Dervishes? Other casters? Or, god forbid, an Assassin? You even have something slanted AGAINST you; Warriors don't have 100 AL, they have 80. Rangers have 100 AL vs Elemental with +15 if you're unlucky enough to face one that's against the element you're using. I'd restate (I mean it's been proven over and over again) that Warriors charged are the highest threat.

No offense, but it's bollocks.

Also, your buffed form of Meteor Shower would mean Glyphsac-Shower = bibi NPCs (not that the original wasn't anyway). It would also be somewhat, if not very, overpowered.

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

07 Nov 2006 at 11:39 - 80

GIven how this post was originally posed before nightfall, I hope there are no complaints after nightfall is out and people see how buffed the eles are already. I'm sick of people complaining about how the eles are too weak even after the major buff.

first of all, eles do enough damage as it is after the current update. searingflamesway is already way too common and the new retarded meta for HA, and i'd hate to see more fire skills buffed so it can continue being the meta.

second, some ele skills are meant to cost 15 or 25 energy. they have a huge pool to begin with. don't give me the excuse that they have the same regen as everyone else, because if they had faster regen that'd just make them too imbalanced for pvp (in pve u can always rest so quit complaining)

though i agree some ele skills are just horrible and no one would use them, that goes for skills for every class out there. outside of barrage and savage shot, how many bow attacks do u commonly see from marksmanship in pve? half of the necro skills are pretty much useless in the context of pvp, and still a fair number of them are too underpowered to be considered for use in pve (especially given the gimmick builds everyone will only use skills for a mm, ss, etc)