Weapons Are Overrated.

I don't find this very impessive... Your only missing a Warrior + Two Rangers for a couple fights till you get some weapons... Once you get some weapons it becomes really easy. This would have been more impessive if you didn't have a full party.

Umm... they would just have there ele blinding flash the Aatxes and steam roll them.

Maybe in PvE but in PvP you need to use every advantage you can get your hands on.

Please don't sidetrack this into a PvE vs PvP. If we had wanted to test in pvp we would have done a scrimmage. Since the majority of players spend their money and time in PvE it made sense to see the effects there. Feel free to test in PvP tho

I must disagree,most weapons can match the "uber-stuff" in quality or are diffrent in stats,but in my eyes the diffrence is not very big,and usually its the skin they care about.

A skilled player can take down someone no matter what weapon he or the enemy is using,and i do think alot of players think that weapons make alot more diffrence then they realy do.(Im not blaming you by the way,i doubt any of those players even comes to GWGuru.)

Sure every bit helps,but its no more needed in PvP then it is in PvE.

Regardless of whether or not PvE is easy, it shows that people shouldn't discriminate against another because of their +29 health instead of +30 in pve since they can complete a task just as well or even better (if they have better skills) than the guy with +30 health sword.

Good observations!

For a long time it was clear to me that, given the cap system, the usage of skills is far more important than weapon damage. Now let me throw in another observation:

The skill system is the equivalent of using magic in rpg games...

Basically GW is a game for magic users! No matter if your chr. is called warrior or necromancer or whatever..., you can't survive without the usage of 'magic'. I bet lots of players who like the skill system prefer to play magicians or conjurers in other games. And those who hate it would like to see their warrior be more independent from all the magic stuff, and have better armor and weapons.

So the question arises: Is it ok that weapons and armor don't make much difference for 100% melee chr's since they can't survive without 'magic' support anyway?

So the fact our Warrior was using a 6-28 chaos axe w/ a Furious mod and no other damage mods means nothing? Or maybe that our other Ranger was using i think a plain white 15-28 Shadow Bow with no other damage mods also means nothing? Theres still a loss of damage, overtime it becomes quite a big loss.

Personally i found my non-max Earth Wand quite helpful at making my pet go about its business, but that was just me

The only thing you proved is that the skills you have been using are what's important in PvE.

Now repeat this by doing the opposite this time: Use presearing skills and top equipment instead.

Well, in Real Life, a M1A2 Abrams owns a T-72, weapons DO matter.

In GW though, not so much. A flashy max 15^50 3:1 Vamp sword won't to a hell of a lot more damage than a regular max sword. But it DOES do more damage, never discount the effects of +4 over hundreds of swings....

I was with you (at least with the caveat "PvE is easy if you are in a maximum size group") until you stated this.

I would love for you to elaborate on this statement, as it seems to infer that you could go into the Underworld with a Candy Cane Sword and nothing but IAS skills and still succeed.

but yet a -8 degen beats that -4 hit every time though. when ppl get off the spoonfeeding, they may realize like the OP did that mods are like vanity items, they are a WANT and not NEEDED part of playing.

i aggree with OP on those points

If that's the build you're playing...

Please note that I stated "8" players, not "12"...

I think a high proportion of you need to stop flaming the experiment itself. The rest of you need to keep your PvE vs PvP to yourselves.

With that said....
I always thought that weapons were there to augment your style of play. You have to know HOW to use your skills and set a good build up; otherwise, you can have the most "leet" weapons in the game, and still get your head handed to you...

Except the part where there is no difference in damage between 14^50 and 15^50, which is what his post was refering to...


Don't care what anyone else is saying, I'm slightly impressed.

Good job, OP.

However, any player worth his salt knows the leet Req. 8 Sundering Crenellated Sword of Fortitude is nothing but a moneysink. Same with dye, 15k/FoW armor, Drunkard title, etc.

I frequently buy things right off of these forums that are flawed and therefore sold for a disgustingly low amount. The prices are based in rarity and coolness of the skin, not much else, and not in the least functionality. That's why PvP Swords are free

I'm also impressed with the experiment. I have always wondered what the buzz is about 2 more hp on a fortitude mod that makes the price go from 500g to 30k or makes a 14>50 gold axe worthless and a 15>50 priceless. I mean with a 28dmg hit it means a dif of .3 dmg.

I think with lower levels the better mods make more difference, especially the +hp and +armor. That's because their game knowledge makes a big difference. But the inherent mods still don't do much.

Some of the posters deriding the OP's experiment, should try it the other way. Go to the Battle Isles training area and hit something 100 times with first a modded weapon and then with an unmodded one. You might be surprised how little difference there is. Have a caster do the same thing with only one skill equipped and a 20% or 10% staff/wand. See how many times you get the HCT or HSR.

Players, especially those who never played paper D&D, don't seem to realize that every time is a new roll with a 100-sided die. If you have one or can borrow one, try it and see how often you can roll 1-10 or 20.

As the OP stated, the damage loss didn't matter, just the loss of +energy and the ranger's lack of a bow. And she is right, it sounds like more fun than the training field.

Nice experiment, but not really sure what you're trying to prove. Any player with any experience knows they're paying the 100k for the skin. I mean, you want a 15^50 weap? They go for like 5k+materials from crafters. You can even get some free just for collectors items. You want specific mods? You want your 15^50 sword, 3:1 vamp per fort mod? 5K for victos. You don't need to pay 100s of plat for a good weap. You pay 100s of plat for a GOOD LOOKING one. This is like armour, what's the difference between 1.5K and FoW armour? Nothing but looks. Yet how many run around with 15K and FoW?

As for not needing perfect weaps and mods, I think most know. Its just that if you're going to buy an item, especially if you're paying for a pretty skin, you may as well get a max weap if you're intending to keep it. I mean, if you had a choice of buying a max shield or a 15AL shield, which would you buy?Otherwise, you make do with what you can find for yourself. And you'll keep on using it, but eventually you'll settle on a weap for keeps, and either just buy it, or farm and chestrun till you get it. Most can't be bothered doing the mass runs, so they just pay for it. Then mod it up the way they like.

I think you're underestimating people if you think they spend that money cause they think they need the extra point of damage or one HP. That's only pve of course, pvp is perfect gear all they way.

Perhaps if one were to be able to read beyond the surface, one would be able to see this as another self-promotion/celebritism attempt of the highly esteemed DVDF. But surely this cannot be the case since if it is you wont be able to see this post.

People buy expensive weapons because they're max gold with a rare skin, low req and good inherent mods You can get max weapons with perfect mods from collector's and crafters which are cheap but they're blue and have common skins. So people don't need to spend 100's of plat but they do and for another reason than to be effective.

So what did you proove? You prooved that you can start fow with no weapons and get to the crafter with only the stuff you find on the way. Also the factor 'time needed' is left out, which would be interesting to know but difficult to measure as no run is exactly the same.

Very well done, Im glad you and your friends took the time to have this experiment

Which is where your wrong. There is a difference between 14 and 15. Sure, it could be a mere 2 damage, but every damage counts in a spike. I've seen times in GvGs where people had 3 health left. Now, what if the 2 warriors were using 14^50 instead of 15^50. The enemy would of died. There you go, theres a difference.

I'm wondering what it would be if for instance you hade a random skillbar to go with that..

Actually, unless your weapon can do more than 100 damage in one hit (i.e. without skills), the maximum benefit that a 15>50 can have over 14>50 is 1 point of damage. And most of the time that will be due to rounding.

What I mean by this is that you aren't limited by areas as to what you can/can't do to mobs. For example, a place full of undead that didn't allow you to use holy damage, or warriors that were immune to blinding or hexes, etc. These are types of "cheats" that are often used in other games in PvE to make it interesting/difficult. Oh, and Jetdoc is right about there only being 1 point of damage difference. You can figure it out for yourself if you want to, because 1% of anything up to 100 is going to be less than one.

Good experiment guys. I'd like to see the opposite part of this w/the high end weapons and low skills to see what happens. I've always believed for the most part there is a statistically insignificant difference between 13-14^50 and 15^40.

Health and armor mods are certainly worth it, no question there. Glad to see someone actually did this.

As far as weapons go I love getting great skins with great mods at for chips. I bought a crenellated sword with 15^50, req 8. How much did it cost me 5k. All because it was 15-21 not 22. And since I play PvE mostly it means nothing at all.

Or

The monks throw Prot Spirit on the warriors (So frenzy is irrelevant)
The Ele blindbot Blinds all the attaxes
the Mesmers Surge the nightmares (they have exactly 80hp, so 1 hit KO)

the rest of the team pile on damage


if you think UW, FoW or any other pve area is hard, you are A: looking at it while playing with PuGs or B: An idiot


Lets see how a warrior with a 1-5 damage hammer fares vs a warrior with a 15>50 Axe ?

Okay. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing what the damage difference would be given max hammer mastery and max strength. Obviously, the axe warrior would be same for axe and strength.

The real test would be to use a low level axe vs a perfect axe.

Someone want to conduct this experiment?

a 1-5 axe will hit for 0 on a warrior

115 is 0.877% higher than 114

40 * 100.877% = 40.35

Anyway weapons aren't underrated. They are perhaps not well appreciated by PvE players who don't customize nor put many points in their weapon attributes so they don't do much damage anyway. The difference between 14^50 and 15^50 is minimal but it is there.

When you play for real against good opposition, if that difference causes you to miss out on a kill once every 100 matches, why hurt yourself that way? Go for the best and play to win. Ending up with 1 hp at some point of a match is not a particularly uncommon event. Again, get the +30hp fortitude because you play to win.

This is a PvE vs PvP debate regardless of anyone saying otherwise. You can finish FoW with no weapons. And they could probably do it fast. 55 N/Mo anyone.

Every point of damage and defense counts in PvE as well, just not as often as in PvP. There are times in PvE when a player is down to just 3 HP (having a +30Hp vs. + 27Hp mod or even a + 60HP while hexed shield) might be the only thing keeping them alive. Sometimes a monk gets down to 5e w a good weapon set (vs. 0e), which is just enough for a WoH to save someone's butt. Avoiding the +15% DP with each death can be an important factor as the target in now less squishy.

However, I agree that this is rare in PvE and if you've got a good team you will hardly ever run into low energy or Hp issues. If you pug pve a lot though, the weapons and their mods become more important.

Chances of death in pvp are much higher and I've been saved from death by switching from my hammer to a sword/axe and shield many, many times.

I think the OP proved the skill > uber weapons or any weapons at all. I'm sure a good guild could beat a bad to mediocre guild w/o using weapons.

here is answer:

14>50 is goood

15>50 is better

15-22 GODLY

15-21, OH NOEEEZZZ THE 1 DMG!!!!!!!

As far as weapons. In pvp it's a no brainer, spiker groups (casters) aren't going to run with the uber pve 20/20's. As far as a pvp only guild going to the uber leet pve areas running the top gvg or ha builds, i have seen it and for most areas they uber pwn, most of the time. I don't do much pvp anymore, but i have to say, most people that are great pvp'ers are even better pve'rs. I can eat dinner, goto the bathroom, read an online article or browse guru, during most pve missions, LOL.

Well done and it means the PvE is easy with a good coordinated group of players not just some group put together in 2 min.When it come to the differnce in PvE to pvP about this there really is no comparison unless you count the HoH when it was eight but even there you had uncoordinated groups of ppl.

This whole thread is pretty amusing.

Last time I checked, the vast majority of PvP players used weapons and mods unlocked via Faction. I don't see warriors in GvG running around with crystaline swords, I see them running around waving stock PvP equipment.

A 500 plat sword functions no different than a collectors, or a PvP weapon with the same mods unlocked via faction.

Most costs for "high end" equipment is based solely on two things, skin and req - neither which has much bearing on the item's actual usability by a lvl 20 player, PvP or PvE.

What you're really seeing in this thread is two things - PVP players bashing PvE players - and people attempting to justify their insanely overpriced purchases.

EOT.

wow congradz on 11 mil exp, my pve mes is waaaaaay behind u, she's getting close to 4mil exp

yes perfect weapons r alittle bit overrated, i agree, however i still dont like non-max white weapons, mb i'm too picky

geeze u missed the funny part there was a time (like few month be4 factions release) when evrbdy and their grandma were farming fame with i-way tanks and of cos after w/r hit r8-r9 and got crapload of sigils they can afford a brand-new fow armor to look rly intimidating while spamming their rank animation.... but they have to get to the forgemaster 1st! so for few weeks toa am1 was full of r7+ iway teams trying to get to the forgemaster. well, usually i'm monking for fow pugs if theres nothing else i can/want to do, especially if there arent alot of guildies on, but with 5-6 hi-ranked iway teams forming in toa1 theres nothing to do for a pve monky but sit patiently near the statue, drink my coffee and place bets with other pve monks on how fast this particular r9+ group will be back to toa1 and spamming LFM.... after returning to the town few times they usually tryed to find a solution, such as take some unranked pve monk with them. now, some of monks r picky and wont waste their time and energy on healing 5 frenzied w/r with ss on them, i'm not the picky monk tho, i'm accepting 1st invite from the pug with more than 5 ppl in it and off we go, i'll heal till evr1 will leave or we'll get wiped. so of cos i monked for few ranked i-way forge groups, heres the average conversation:
leader: whats ur rank?
me: pve monks got no ranks
leader: what build?
me: boon prot
another w/r: wow pve monks run boon prot
leader: ok, looks like theres no ranked monks so we're going to give u a chance... do u know what fow armor is?
me: what do u think i'm wearing?
leader: oh, ok, 1 means rdy, try to remember

5 min in fow, 2 shadow beasts later, 5 w/r with ss on them, necro sacs himself and getting spiked and holy veil recharges too slow for the only monky, even boon protter, to save the day.....

leader: monk, wtf u think u're doing
me: stop attacking with ss on u pls
leader: wtf heal
another w/r: told u we need a normal ranked monk
me: oh well u rly should pay attention to hexes on u

rare ranked iway pug made it to the book quest and i have to tell u it's such a pain to heal designated bookholder in glads armor w/o the dolyaks but with 30%DP....... i'm not saying its impossible, it was a good practice it beats me why they were trying to swap their weapons, dropped book means trouble but then again, what can pve monk know about weapons swapping while holding the book

It is exactly that. A group you throw together has no idea what anyone else is capable of or how they may be able to help them in mission. I have seen this time and time again with "OMG How hard is this - HAX!" missions like Zen Daijun and Aborstone. Now I personally don't think they're hard...in the slightest unless you're with a group of complete numptys who don't know that standing in the miasma is bad whilst fighting and trying to cast Meteor Shower in Aborstone without Glyph of Concentration is not the most sensible plan.

My point is...when I do these missions with friends and alliance members it runs so smoothly. Everyone knows what everyone else is capable of. I try to spike off dangerous members of the mob with air magic, our necro will cause widespread damage across the group with Spiteful Spirit, we protect my brother, who usually monks for us, since if he dies...we might...and it works! As for the weapon debate...hmm, I'm not sold on white shing jea island weapons being pretty much as good as perfect gold ones you find in Kurzick Chests (etc..) but I do find the extra 100k + 50 ectos people pay for that extra 1% damage to be a little extreme. I like my green weapons. Not because they make me a better person or better at fighting but becuse I like them...for their green-ness, their skin and their perfectness. The same perfectness that on a gold weapon would cost a lot more. They're just nice to have.

I know what you mean. I tried taking my necro into Fort Aspenwood yesterday...haven't been in there for ages, especially as necro, but I wanted to have a play with Feast of Corruption. Anyway, I would cast Insidious Parasite on the warriors attacking me...and they didn't seem to realise that if they hit me...I stole health. Needless to say they died and I lived. Quality! Silly wammo!

M-M-M-MONSTER FIXED.

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