Ok so I was trying to figure out how you could echo one of the avatar forms. I figure archane echo wont work because its not a spell its a form. So the next choice would be to use echo, but you cant because its also an elite and you cant carry 2 elites.
So next choice would be to use Arcane Mimicry on an ally with an elite form, but mimicry doesnt work on forms.
Anyway I figure if you have an elite form, and arcane mimicry, you can give a hero the elite echo. Mimic the echo, use the echo, then use the form. I wonder if theres anyway that would work? Just something to ponder during these final days before the release of Nightfall.
How to echo Dervish Elite Form?
Cloudpiercer
Lady Lozza
At the moment I'm tempted to say that it cannot be done. That is the only combo possible that I see and the only one I haven't tried.
To make it clear for all:
Arcane Mimicry on someone with echo.
Echo.
Elite Form
Elite Form before echoed version runs out.
My guess though, would be no. Mind you it IS just a guess. Anet has gone out of their way to ensure that the elite forms CANNOT be exploited, so I'm guessing that echo will not be usable on elite forms.
To make it clear for all:
Arcane Mimicry on someone with echo.
Echo.
Elite Form
Elite Form before echoed version runs out.
My guess though, would be no. Mind you it IS just a guess. Anet has gone out of their way to ensure that the elite forms CANNOT be exploited, so I'm guessing that echo will not be usable on elite forms.
Horseman Of War
they went to some length to prevent it with everything from changing the wording/function of arcane (borrow allys elite), and having the skill actually have a separate cooldown feature to prevent (my guess) 10/10 universal hsr
Cloudpiercer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
At the moment I'm tempted to say that it cannot be done. That is the only combo possible that I see and the only one I haven't tried.
To make it clear for all: Arcane Mimicry on someone with echo. Echo. Elite Form Elite Form before echoed version runs out. My guess though, would be no. Mind you it IS just a guess. Anet has gone out of their way to ensure that the elite forms CANNOT be exploited, so I'm guessing that echo will not be usable on elite forms. |
Elemental Istt
Anyway why would you echo a form when its affect only you and can stay over 68 Sec or more.. And you can't have two form the same time, Just because its two elite and would be stupid.
Hey look, I'm Balthazar And Lyssa's Avatar!
Hey look, I'm Balthazar And Lyssa's Avatar!
Lady Lozza
Yes Cloud, by the wording of the skills as they stand at the moment, yes it should work. I would not be surprised however if there were a little unwritten line saying "elite forms cannot be echoed", OR that the "disabling of the skill" carries across to the echoed version.
Elemental, the point is to be able to keep up the form 100% of the time, or as close as you can get to that. Imagine Bathazar's up for 100% of the time... I wouldn't say you'd be invincible, but you would be pretty close to it.
Elemental, the point is to be able to keep up the form 100% of the time, or as close as you can get to that. Imagine Bathazar's up for 100% of the time... I wouldn't say you'd be invincible, but you would be pretty close to it.
AW Lore
well, remember that echo says: For 20 seconds, Echo is replaced with the next skill you use. Echo acts as this skill for 20 seconds
so, if the forms last 68 seconds + 18 seconds = 86 seconds of duration - 120 seconds the elite is disabled= 34 cooldown until the original elite cools down.
by the time the form ends arcane mimicry should have recharged.
IF its allowed (in case ANet reads this and decides to disable it
) you will gain 18 (top) extra seconds of the form (also if its not interrupted while you recast it)
if the ally skill bar has no use for echo, it will be a waste for him. surely though, he will have a skill bar decided to work on echo as its center.
the dervish will end with two skills that have a very long cooldown (arcane mimicry 60 seconds, the elite form 120 seconds)
personally, i think its a waste of skill combo, but each to his own, if you have fun doing it, go you
so, if the forms last 68 seconds + 18 seconds = 86 seconds of duration - 120 seconds the elite is disabled= 34 cooldown until the original elite cools down.
by the time the form ends arcane mimicry should have recharged.
IF its allowed (in case ANet reads this and decides to disable it
) you will gain 18 (top) extra seconds of the form (also if its not interrupted while you recast it)if the ally skill bar has no use for echo, it will be a waste for him. surely though, he will have a skill bar decided to work on echo as its center.
the dervish will end with two skills that have a very long cooldown (arcane mimicry 60 seconds, the elite form 120 seconds)
personally, i think its a waste of skill combo, but each to his own, if you have fun doing it, go you
Cloudpiercer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AW Lore
well, remember that echo says: For 20 seconds, Echo is replaced with the next skill you use. Echo acts as this skill for 20 seconds
so, if the forms last 68 seconds + 18 seconds = 86 seconds of duration - 120 seconds the elite is disabled= 34 cooldown until the original elite cools down. by the time the form ends arcane mimicry should have recharged. IF its allowed (in case ANet reads this and decides to disable it ) you will gain 18 (top) extra seconds of the form (also if its not interrupted while you recast it)if the ally skill bar has no use for echo, it will be a waste for him. surely though, he will have a skill bar decided to work on echo as its center. the dervish will end with two skills that have a very long cooldown (arcane mimicry 60 seconds, the elite form 120 seconds) personally, i think its a waste of skill combo, but each to his own, if you have fun doing it, go you |
I just believe alot of builds start off as seemingly useless skill combinations, so I'm just throwing this idea out there for people to think over.
CHUIU
Arcane Mimicry -> Assassin's Promise
Quid Pro Quo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
Elemental, the point is to be able to keep up the form 100% of the time, or as close as you can get to that. Imagine Bathazar's up for 100% of the time... I wouldn't say you'd be invincible, but you would be pretty close to it.
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Warriors have an armor set with that much armor already. This would be more useful for an avatar such as melandru which gives you +200 health and also shields you from conditions.
CHUIU
Quote:
| Standard Dervish Armor provides +5 energy, +2 energy regeneration, +25 health, and up to 70 Armor. |
Quid Pro Quo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHUIU
Thats 110 armor, 6 less than a Warrior using Sentinels (rare) and a Shield.
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Swinging Fists
The max base armor level is 70 on a Dervish and 80 on a Paragon.
gr3g
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHUIU
Arcane Mimicry -> Assassin's Promise
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Quid Pro Quo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swinging Fists
The max base armor level is 70 on a Dervish and 80 on a Paragon.
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thedeadwalk!
I wonder if Serpent's Quickness would work on the listed recharge time or the 120 seconds one?
It's an elite just like the avatars.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHUIU
Arcane Mimicry -> Assassin's Promise
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Alleji
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thedeadwalk!
It's an elite just like the avatars.
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Zinger314
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alleji
...and Arcane Mimicry copies an elite skill?
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(I just owned Alleji. That felt good.
CHUIU
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gr3g
Timing that is extremely tricky: you only have 5 seconds to kill your target. Maybe you can use it in some spike builds, but a good infuser will totally ruin your day. Besides, do we know if Promise recharges "disabled" skills?
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Paperfly
Quote:
| I wonder if Serpent's Quickness would work on the listed recharge time or the 120 seconds one? |
ANet aren't exactly the world's most consistent templaters, but have a look at the full entry for Auspicious Incantation, which brings up the difference between skill disabling and extending recharge times.
Terra Xin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Paperfly
ANet aren't exactly the world's most consistent templaters, but have a look at the full entry for Auspicious Incantation, which brings up the difference between skill disabling and extending recharge times.
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Lord Sojar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Terra Xin
I almost forgot about that edit. It seems like it wont work with Glyph of Renewal...
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lightblade
It can be done. Though it is hard and very not worthy of doing it.
D/Me and A/x
1. Dervish use form
2. Dervish use Arcane Mimicry on A/x to obtain Assassin's Promise
3. Dervish use Assassin's Promise on enemy.
4. Dervish and Assassin kills the target with Assassin's Promise
5. Form get recharged.
D/Me and A/x
1. Dervish use form
2. Dervish use Arcane Mimicry on A/x to obtain Assassin's Promise
3. Dervish use Assassin's Promise on enemy.
4. Dervish and Assassin kills the target with Assassin's Promise
5. Form get recharged.
floppinghog
forms are specificly that, forms. they are not spells.
only thing probably worth a shot is QZ and serpents quickness
only thing probably worth a shot is QZ and serpents quickness
CHUIU
Those would work on the base recharge of the skill, but the skill will still be disabled for 120 seconds. There is no getting by the 120 second recharge with quick recharge skills, you need to use something that directly recharges skills like Oath Shot or Assassin's Promise.
If you pay attention to the notes about Auspicious Incantation (a skill that works exactly like a Form in regards to recharge times) you would see this:
Of course you wouldn't use Mantra of Recovery on a Form, but the end of the note stays true.
If you pay attention to the notes about Auspicious Incantation (a skill that works exactly like a Form in regards to recharge times) you would see this:
Quote:
| Combat the increased recharge times with a stance such as Mantra of Recovery. This, however, will not reduce the penalties, just the base recharge times. |
stiffler
What if you had Echo equipped and skill capped an Avatar, that way you will have 2 elites at the same time. Obviously it would only work once, but hey what the hell.
Morgoth the dark
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
...an Elite non-Form skill.
(I just owned Alleji. That felt good. |
(I just owned Zinger314. That felt good.
NeHoMaR
Forms are unique. So, forget about it, or hope they change or add something about in final release; or wait for 4th chapter 
Lady Lozza
Assassin's Promise RECHARGES. It does NOT cancel the desabling effect of the avatar skills. You would NOT be able to use this unless there is a bug in the way the skill works. Remember the disable period is NOT it's recharge.
gr3g
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
Assassin's Promise RECHARGES. It does NOT cancel the desabling effect of the avatar skills. You would NOT be able to use this unless there is a bug in the way the skill works. Remember the disable period is NOT it's recharge.
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Former Ruling
Yea,From the Assassin's Promise tests it seems "disabled for" just means "additional recharge time of"
But who knows now.
And even if it were left the same, thats a SMALL window to kill someone in to recharge the form.
But who knows now.
And even if it were left the same, thats a SMALL window to kill someone in to recharge the form.
Ellington
Having used Assassin's Promise extensively in PvE I've been hit with Distracting Shot and Diversion a good many times, both of which "disable" a skill for [x] amount of time, and AP still recharges the skills disabled by them.
Honestly Oath Shot seems like a much better skill to mimic though, since it's not so conditional.
Honestly Oath Shot seems like a much better skill to mimic though, since it's not so conditional.
Heelz
Oh yeah, just a 50% chance to fail. 
Lady Lozza
I wonder then if the RECHARGE = DISABLED thing is actually a bug. Why use separate terms for the same thing? Oh well, just under 4 days till the server goes live and we can try it.