If they redid the forms slightly again how would you feel?

unholy guardian

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Lost Haven

A/Mo

24 Oct 2006 at 21:39 - 1

all values are 1-12

current
Avatar of Balthazar

Elite Form. For 1...48 seconds, you gain +40 armor, you move 33% faster, and your attacks deal holy damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

15 Energy 2 Activation 10 Recharge

Avatar of Dwayna

Elite Form. For 1...48 seconds, whenever you use a skill, you gain 5...41 Health and lose 1 Hex. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

10 Energy 2 Activation 10 Recharge

Avatar of Grenth
For 1...48 seconds, whenever you use an attack skill, you also remove one Enchantment from your target, and your attacks deal cold damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

10 Energy 2 Activation 10 Recharge

Avatar of Lyssa

Elite Form. For 1...48 seconds, you have +10 maximum Energy and your attacks deal +5...41 damage to foes activating skills. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

5 Energy 2 Activation 10 Recharge

Avatar of Melandru

Elite Form. For 1...48 seconds, you have +200 Health, you are unaffected by Conditions, and your attacks deal earth damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

25 Energy 2 Activation 10 Recharge

really at the moment some are seeming a bit badish compared to the rest so um i just have maybe a few suggestions

they are bolded for changes.

Avatar of Balthazar

Elite Form. For 1...48 seconds, you gain +40 armor, you move 33% faster, and your attacks deal holy damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

10 Energy 2 Activation 10 Recharge

Avatar of Dwayna (unchanged)

Elite Form. For 1...48 seconds, whenever you use a skill, you gain 5...41 Health and lose 1 Hex. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

10 Energy 2 Activation 10 Recharge

Avatar of Grenth
For 1...48 seconds, whenever you hit when an attack, you also remove one Enchantment from your target, when an enchantment is removed you gain 2-28 health. Your attacks deal cold damage while under the effects of this form. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

10 Energy 2 Activation 10 Recharge

Avatar of Lyssa

Elite Form. For 1...48 seconds, you have +20 maximum Energy and your attacks deal +5...46 damage to foes activating skills. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

10 Energy 2 Activation 10 Recharge

Avatar of Melandru

Elite Form. For 1...48 seconds, you have +200 Health, you are unaffected by Conditions, and your attacks deal earth damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

15 Energy 2 Activation 10 Recharge

So really i just got the idea maybe this be better? What do you think about the skills?

Saider maul

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Baltimore, Maryland

26 Oct 2006 at 00:52 - 2

avatars look cool and have some good benifits but for the downtime i dont like them much.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

26 Oct 2006 at 01:43 - 3

Your actually suggesting they should be buffed?

Warriors would kill to have an elite that made all there attacks ignore all but base AL, give increased move speed and halve damage in 1 skill and still leave room for an IAS.

As for Grenth... have you ever heard of balance? Its this thing that Order of Apostasy seems to have avoided and that would make it even worse than that.

Melandrus avatar makes you practically invincible, as proven by the D/Mo weekend of retardedness. Cripshot can't stop you, Blinding Flash can't stop you and you have that much health you can't be spiked.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

17 Dec 2006 at 06:11 - 4

Avatars are very overrated, they are why people think dervs are easy to play. while using a for most derveshes function pretty well. People really need to see how AMAZING a dervish with a decent elite are.

stueyman2099

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Clan W A S D [WASD]

W/E

17 Dec 2006 at 08:05 - 5

Quote:
Avatar of Grenth
For 1...48 seconds, whenever you hit when an attack, you also remove one Enchantment from your target, when an enchantment is removed you gain 2-28 health. Your attacks deal cold damage while under the effects of this form. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. I'm assuming from this that you don't PvP at all. What you are suggesting is that we take a skill that is one of THE strongest in the PvP realm, and make it even stronger. Avatar of Grenth in PvP is pretty rediculous as it is, and it will almost certainly be made weaker with the next skill update, not stronger.

Wrynn

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

A place far away from where I want to be.

17 Dec 2006 at 08:16 - 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by stueyman2099

I'm assuming from this that you don't PvP at all. What you are suggesting is that we take a skill that is one of THE strongest in the PvP realm, and make it even stronger. Avatar of Grenth in PvP is pretty rediculous as it is, and it will almost certainly be made weaker with the next skill update, not stronger. Grenth needs an energy penalty per enchant strip IMO, and melandru, well, i dont know what they need to do to it.

The only mass change IMO for all forms = 30 sec base recycle time.

Every other mass enchant strip in the game (sin- Dark Apostasy; nec - OoA, rend; mez - shatterstorm i think?; etc etc) Carries a pretty heavy penalty. Why? Because mass enchant stripping is a powerful thing.

Crom The Pale

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

W/

17 Dec 2006 at 14:40 - 7

Balance between pvp and pve has never been easy, but with the forms there already walking a fine line.

Any changes that would weeken the forms for pvp would make them totaly useless in pve.

Any changes that would strengthen them for pve would make them totaly unblananced for pvp.

I think they will remain as they are, there not perfect but the function and can be countered with ease.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

17 Dec 2006 at 15:12 - 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
Avatars are very overrated, they are why people think dervs are easy to play. while using a for most derveshes function pretty well. People really need to see how AMAZING a dervish with a decent elite are. And the avatars aren't decent?

Kijik Oni Hanryuu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

the 7th level of HELL! J/K Somewhere in GW assassinating things

[acid]members of the KAWS alliance

A/

18 Dec 2006 at 00:21 - 9

please for the love of god don't change the avatars...

Aggamemnon

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Black Cats

18 Dec 2006 at 01:22 - 10

Playing Grenths solely in PVP (for good reason) I'd strongly suggest not buffing it at all. It does exactly what it is supposed too.
An energy penalty per remove my be a bit overkill imo, you already have to manage your energy for attack skills (to trigger the rip) and staying alive.

The only one I can see needing anything done is lyssa, but I have not tested it much.

I'd be against lowering the base recycle.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

18 Dec 2006 at 10:36 - 11

Avatars seem fine to me, there downside of long recharge makes up for what some people call overpowered.

Personally I think the Avatars are best in RA or TA(and maybe HA), where matching can be shorter, but in PvE or AB, I would be tempted to take a none avatar elite, like Ebon dust aura, reaper's sweep, or even vow of strength.

Toll Booth Willie

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

tn, usa

E/Mo

19 Dec 2006 at 05:02 - 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
Balance between pvp and pve has never been easy, but with the forms there already walking a fine line. Anets first concern is pvp balance. If it is overpowered in pvp it will be adjusted with little concern for the effects on pve

Kais Unduli

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Room V

19 Dec 2006 at 09:14 - 13

The only change you've made that I like is lowering the cost of Melandru's, otherwise the forms are all fine as they are. They don't need to be buffed.

Saphatorael

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

19 Dec 2006 at 09:28 - 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
Avatars are very overrated, they are why people think dervs are easy to play. while using a for most derveshes function pretty well. People really need to see how AMAZING a dervish with a decent elite are. Well.. people playing a Dervish immediatly want to cap the avatar forms, then just ignore the rest because it doesn't look so cool. They even advertise with : 'Dervish LFP, I have all avatar forms'; then, when they actually manage to get a group, they ask which one they should take. Not kidding, I've encountered such players.

As for me, I also capped all Avatar Forms quite early, compared to the others. But I have to admit:
Grenth is a bit overused in PvP (don't even TRY to buff it, it's fine as it is),
Melandru is fine: if you're DP'ed, you can't become the avvy anymore (that is, if you don't have an energy set of some kind, you'll know the difference between a moron and a decent player by this thing.)
Dwayna is quite balanced. Nice to tank by just spamming Reversal of Fortune on yourself for free heals, and losing hexes that way. But then again, you won't be as durable as a tank. By it's nice to mess around with, and, female monks rule
Balthazar... very overrated, imo. Yes, your attacks are holy damage, yes, you attack faster, yes, you have more armor. But from my experience, Dervishes aren't really such big priority targets... I'd really just prefer...
...Lyssa's Avatar: very underrated, I think people just tend to only see the energy bonus (like the pet charming part from Otyughs' Cry). I keep getting compliments when i deal 300+ AoE damage without even using a skill. But still. It'll only be up half of the time, the downside of each avatar. (For the sake of balance, of course)

But I prefer using Reaper's Sweep, can't beat Deep Wounds ^^

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

19 Dec 2006 at 15:39 - 15

Nerf grenth, buff dwayna T_T