Update on the new ai actions

You guys need to seriously relax.

If you'd gotten the CE version, and watched the excellent making of video, you'd see that Anet tests this stuff pretty intensely. They even showed segments specifically addressing the AoE, and once the during the QA testing phase showed a guy testing the AI response to AoE skills.

One of the other things they commented to a lot, was the desire to make the game slower overall. To encourage players to stop and smell the roses, and enjoy the storyline, rather than burn through.

Like RoF said, there are many ways to manage running with other spells. An ele could use snares before AoE skills. It requires more strategy or teamwork is all. Now you don't have to wait and find a Water Ele to join the team, because you can design and control a Hero who uses snares!

Just give it a try for a couple of days, with the new heroes and skills, and see if it's really unbalanced, or if maybe... it's actually better this way <gulp>.

We weren't using hench monks. The battle field is total chaos. Everything is running from everything. If you want to kill something, you have to chase it. Some baddies run without even being attacked. Apparently they need excercise.

Agreed, Kali Ma.

Just claiming Doom & Gloom louder doesn't make it any truer. If there really are bugs in the AI, I hope they get addressed soon, like the minion behavior. Otherwise, learn to deal with the change.

Even if things are as bad as the few of you are claiming, I still don't see it as that bad. So what, the monster runs? Screw 'em. No need to chase them. It just means one less member of their party you gotta deal with. Heroes chasing them down? Set a flag down, call them back. The fact that it's erratic, odd behavior almost gives the monsters a sense of personality, and I kinda like that.

I did get the CE and did watch the video. When you slow the game down to the point that it's frustrating it becomes detrimental. That's what has happened here in my opinion.

If they were trying to make it more like PvP, they failed. PvP battlefields are not nearly as chaotic.

You kinda have to kill them to complete missions.

I didn't say don't kill them. I said screw 'em. As in, let them rum, deal with the rest of the party that isn't running, then deal with them. Surely they're not running the entire time? Only when chased, I presume?

EVERYTHING is running. You have to chase to kill.

I was playing earlier, and I surely didn't notice that! In fact, I did notice that the henchies were kicking a lot more ass and that everything seemed a bit easier. Nobody was running from my warrior, except for the occasional caster, who only ran a few feet, stopped to cast a spell, and fell to my axe.

So unless things have changed in the past few hours, I didn't notice what your'e describing.

wrong.

i agree.. i want grind, cause it was an option - not anymore.

now its pvp simulation without the pvp. you cant simulate pvp with AI, they are still as dumb as you make em. a script can't make a human.

People do enjoy the storyline... the first time through.

Anyone else think that "slowing" a game down to "smell the roses" is stupid. We play games for fun not to just apreciate it.

I just Henchied hells precipice inspite of the new AI. What's going on with Cynn casting/cancelling 5 storm 5 times consecutively? and the Warrior henchies like to run at foes a lot more/dangerously over agro.

Damn...Looks like i have to wait until the update is over so I can get that Protector of Cantha title...There is no way in *hell* you'll get masters with AI like this.

Thanks, ANet! ! (yes, sarcasm).

At first when I heard about it, I thought it'd be cool to play with "PvP" tactics-bearing monsters. Eh heh, screw that. I've been sticking with RA for awhile now, it's too irritating.

But seriously, if they tested it, who thought it was a "good idea"?

Is there any chance they will bring the farming back?

I was doing the first mission for the "foreigners" this morning and it was so crazy how the ai monks behaved. 2 monks toward the middles of the mission kited and ran all over the map and the only way to pin them down was to trap them in a corner. So i would say there is very little chance there will be enough a way to keep tight aggro enough to kill anything solo.

To me, the new ai has made some things Too easy. I monked Thunderhead Keep about 5-6 times last night with pugs and we won Every time. And some of the pugs were horrible (.e .g- the OMG heal me! noob monk! /running solo into a group of heretics, kind of bad).

I preordered this game several months ago and had no clue that it would be totally different than the guild wars I knew. If I had known this was going to happen I would not have ordered.

Intentionally slowing the game down to get people more involved in the story line is pointless. Those who are interested could take their time and do everything before and those who weren't could blow through it. That's what was great about it. Now we're having it forced upon us. I have a character of every class and after I see the story line once, I want to blow the rest of my characters through. Can't do it.

If trying to make the AI respond like real people do in PvP, then the goal was not reached. People do not run like hell when they take damage from Spiteful Spirit, they stop attacking. They don't try to uncover the map when they take AoE damage, they simply move out it's range. And they certainly don't run away until their health has totally regened on it's own and then resume attacking. Put some monks in the groups and see if they can outheal the damage, that's PvP.

As for setting up a hero to snare people, this is an online game so that you can play with other people. I don't want to have to take a hero set up as a water ele with me everywhere I go. I want to play with humans and no one wants to play a water ele or trapper, it's just boring. Even if you did, you may be able to snare a group initially and kill one or two but you'll never get them grouped for another snare.

Farming was my favorite part of the game and for all intents and purposes it's gone now. That's the biggest let down of all. I don't want to play to the end of the game just to compete the story line, I want some killer stuff.

I was expecting today to feel like Christmas but instead it feels like someone ran over my dog. This game is not anything near what I paid for and that really sucks.

So... I played a Dervish in the preview event, and LOVED it, and have been eagerly awaiting Nightfall release ever since. (Played the plot, not farmed with.)

Am I to understand that playing that class is an exercise in hair-pulling frustration now?

Joy.

On the upside, I don't get my copy of Nightfall for another week or so, and this definitely sounds like a bug with the new "monsters don't always run" AoE system. Hopefully it'll get fixed soon.

Sounds like it's really horrible.

I haven't had a whole lot of issue with baddies running away from me as yet, but I haven't tried actual storyline play since the update. I did a couple of MM farm runs last night to test things out and about pulled my damn hair out.

The first run I went by myself, and found that it was still possible to solo my chosen area but it took longer because nothing was acting right. Everything aggroed on me 99% of the time instead of on my minions. The one percent of the time they aggroed on my minions, my minions would run to the BACK of the group and start killing (reminds me of a bad tank getting outside the monks' heal zone!). At which point the baddies in front aggro on me anyway, so I end up running in friggin circles around my minions so they can kill. Ugh! Two things that I noticed about my minions, on top of this, is that all 10 of them were attacking the same enemy which is not something I'm used to, and second when I ran on, only like 2 of them followed me while the other 8 just stood where they were and only when I stopped again did they run to catch up to me. I'm used to leaving 1 or 2 behind to catch up, but not the whole darn group!

The second run I went with 2 other guildies, an ele and a monk with myself MMing again. This time around I ran in with the minions to grab aggro, making sure that the ele and the monk were well outside my aggro bubble. Almost every attempt, the vast majority of the enemies would run right past me and either attack the ele or the monk (niether of which had cast yet), ignoring me and my minions completely and to top it off, if I wasn't attacking an enemy, my minions wouldn't attack at all, even with the enemy standing right next to them! I can deal with the minions attacking one target and then switching off to chase/kill another (which they didn't do before that I noticed) or completely ignoring the enemy attacking me to kill whatever one they are working on, but when they just stand there and do nothing, that bothers me!

I do hope they fix these issues.

I don't think farming is over. I think it will be more costly to farm as you may need more ppl in the grp to farm hence splitting the drops (more costly).

Here is an idea. Two tank use none shall pass. one on each side of the grp of baddies. One nuker hit at the same time. Possible? If so then the new farmin' build will be a three man build. That would mean the tank would have to be wammo's to heal themselves because a monk would make it a 4 man build.

Even if I wrong and this idea sucks I can assure you someone will think of something. Hell, they have already figured out that nec's can still solo UW. It just takes longer

One thing I would like to hear from ANet is was this HOW they meant the update to work? Is this a bug or was this intended...

I'm not going to open my copy of NF until this issue is addressed cause it simply made gameplay frustrating last night, and I'm in it to have fun, not figure out pvp-esque builds to make my way through the game, by trapping, crippling, slowing or hexing every group of monsters.

on a side note, has anyone tried with a sin? Do they aggro them like warriors?

Hurray... Another "A-net ruined my life with this patch" thread...

Okay class, lets take a moment to look through your skill lists. Maybe you'll learn something.

Lets review what we know: Monsters now flee from area attacks and massive damage, rather than standing there like turkeys in a rainstorm.

Hmm... Can anyone think of any ways to counter this?

1) Cripple (bow attack skills, area effect skills, paragon shouts, and a multitude of melee weapon skills are available for this)
2) Long-term health degeneration skills
3) Target Calling to focus spike damage
4) "While target is moving" spike and condition skills
5) Area wide knockdown skills (such as the Factions Warrior Elite "Coward!" which specifically effects fleeing foes, has a quick recharge, and a cheap cost of 4 adrenline)
6) Combining speed increase and knockdown skills. (there are plenty of each available within the list of 1,000+ skills the series has to offer)

That is only a few of the options available to us. So what has this taught us, class?

Shut your mouths and stop whinning! If you don't have the intelligence to redo the build that you copied from someone else in order to compensate for the improved AI, then you are no better than those you insult by calling noobs! This is not Diablo people!! This game actually requires some thinking in order to create an effective build capable of handling a multitude of situations!!

Will a Mod please close this thread. It serves no purpose other than advertising player ignorance. I see enough of that ingame as it is...

It appears that most of you are concerned with how the new monster ai effects farming. What about normal game-play?

As I stated in my earlier post, the new ai appears to make some missions too easy. Has anyone else noticed this?

We're not stupid, we realize this. It's just not fun to do these things. This game is supposed to be fun. You are apparently the ignorant one for assuming that everyone else is such.

How is using slow spells not fun...unless you are one of those people who only believes in the holy trinity of warrior + monk + as much damagers as possible and nothing else. On the same context using a mesmer is not fun since their dmg output most of the time is even worse then a water ele. (especially the now buffed ones)

People need to get rid of the stubborn idea that warriors have to pwn their foe and chop them to death. So what if you have to chase them a bit. The current new AI make mobs stick to the warrior way more often now, all it does is that the AI run away more realistically. All you people have to do is stand still, and the mobs will automatically come back to you, and chances are they target the warrior again now. Now warrior get the role that they should be doing, tanking foes and support the backup casters.

The game is now MORE fun then it was before, people actually have to think abit but not as much as when the AoE instantly scatters stuff like they were before. The game was boring when everything just stays still and you can just rain destruction on to them.

I'm not sure why, but it made me laugh out loud when I read this. I surely hope this is not how they want the AI to behave though. I'm REALLY hoping this is temporary. At least the Halloween event should be fun - unless you have to chase the Mad King all over the map

I sooo agree. I have a group of friends that even farm Ettins together. One of us travels overseas a lot and can never be sure of his hotel connection so farming is an awesome way just to hang out and chat and if he falls out - np, we just meet back at Beetle! He even describes the joy of Ettin farming as being like gambling - the thrill of picking up gold - even if it turns out to be worthless.
I have also learnt a lot about foes and my own skills by farming. I learnt timing, energy management, and I experiment with different skills. Profit is a by-product of farming for me.
When Factions came out and you could pick up so much money and loot just by questing the profit side of farming became even less of an issue!
And I agree with the party to be had in UW with a party of 3. We have a ton of fun just playing something together - working as a team and if one of us pics up and ecto - cool, if not - NP!

ya thanks for that... that is exactly what i was getting at.. its good to know some others feel the same way..

As i said before and i will explain it again...

Farming for us was the only thing we wanted to do. just three people farming everything we could.. not for profit.. but for the fun..

alota people posting here are saying that we just need to open up our skillbars and use some other stuff.. but you miss the point still..

So i guess in the end.. nothing i say will convince anyone to feel one way or the other about the update..

You like to farm. Thats all you do. We get it. Now you have nothing left to do for fun.

Heres the thing. There really is MORE to the game than just that.

Regardless of what you WANT to do.

While its unfortunate that you are a victim of circumstance, it is true that the new AI hinders farming, i doubt it was a direct stab at farming, like JR said, this affects PVP a lot more directly.

The spiritbond nerf is a much more DIRECT farming nerf.

I think the new AI just makes it frustrating and annoying (almost some of my methods are unaffected...strangely) to farm because they require new tactics to kill enemies effectively.

For me, farming is boring (unless im in the mood to really grind).

I think the AI could still use more tweaking.

I think the Players could do with some mental tweaking.

Wow, how can anyone think this AI "improvement" is for the better? This is an absolute joke! The game is 0 fun now! The first AI improvement wasn't THAT bad, still anoying, but it sort of made sense, but this one is just plain idiocracy!

Remove this horrible AI!

GW just shot itself in the foot...Guess I'll go back to FPS's until this crap is fixed.

Yeah, there's alot more to the game. Like getting all 10 of my characters to Sunspear General rank just to be able to advance. That's being forced to farm when farming ability has been taken away. Not only are you forced to do it, but you have to do it with a group which means you get no drops so it's a total waste of time. Fun stuff.

The new AI doesn't affect PvP at all. Real people have nothing to do with AI.

#1) Quests. Although i like it better in factions when i can grab 10k luxon/kurzick and advance all characters at once.

#2) Victory or Death

I agree on both of these statements. The AI is still a bit buggy, but I like the improvements that have been implimented correctly. Now players actually have to think about their skill bar strategically, rather than simply useing the same exact combination of skills (from a build someone else created) over and over to kill mobs of mindless creatures.

By the time I beat Factions, the inside of my eyelids were becoming more interesting than the repeditive, and predictable, battles.

I like the fact that the monsters actually "think" a little. I think that the fact that enemies kite when badly injured (just like a player would) and focus upon the targets that are posing the biggest threat (just like a player would) are wonderful improvements to the enemy AI. I welcome the challenge!!

I praise A-net for doing what needed to be done!!

Or... You could always spend a little bit of time actually doing secondary quests. These do, afterall, award nice chunks of Sunspear points. They don't just put those secondary quests in the game for no reason.

Remind me again... Why did you picked up an Online Multiplayer RPG if you didn't want to actually play with other people? A-net is purposely trying to promote player-to-player interaction and party building. They WANT players to form groups! If they didn't, Guild Wars wouldn't have been created as an Online game.

On another note, RPG stands for Role-Playing Game. I'm pretty sure that means the game was intended to be played for the enjoyment of the role-playing experience it offers, not just how rich a player can get collecting loot. I understand that people enjoy farming. I have no problem with that. But if you claim to enjoy farming because of the social interactions, then why are you complaining about having to do it for longer in order to get the same amount of loot? I thought the loot wasn't part of the equation... I thought the extended amount time you have to chit-chat while doing a run would be welcomed...

Am I missing something, because it really seems like you're being a little over excited about this, since it only really effects the amount of loot you get compared to the time you put into it. It in no way effects how fast you can type during the course of a run.

So why can't you farm with eight people then? If you're doing it for the fun, then the
loot isn't that big a deal right? Eight people should be a lot more fun than three... no?

I think you guys might be getting a little hysterical about this. Either that, or you're
deliberately trying to blow the changes out of proportion.

I've been playing all day in different areas of the game, and things haven't changed
all that much. I don't farm much, but I did do some solo farming with my warrior... it's
still managable.

I've always thought it was poor game design that a single player should be able to
go out into an area designed for an eight man team and clear it by himself anyway
though.

See now here is where you NEED to school yourself a bit... THEY are NOT RUNNING FROM JUST MASSIVE DAMAGE, THEY FRIGGEN RUN BEFORE I TOUCH THEM!.... Get the picture?

We just want to know is this the intended AI or is it a bug? They should NOT be running ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE MAP EITHER!!

Here are some screenies for ya bob:

Keep watching hun it gets better ^_^


And sadly our journey finally came to an end and the bugger didn't even tip me for the run!


Now please stop being a troll about this, some people are genuinely upset! They didn't just decide it wasn't worth playing when they heard about the update, they actually TRIED playing and found in several cases that when something runs and causes your HENCHIES (not heros) to agro the 6 other mobs so closely place on each other, you can pretty much call the mission game over.
Now I have my own guildies to play with but some people don't, so while its all great for me or you, it REALLY sucks to be them and Anet needs to at least address some issues with the AI - this may be how it stays but it is NOT without its problems!

(Btw the priest that followed did NOT attack me, though when I tried to attack him he fled... go fig o_O... I have worse issues than him I just didn't screen shot those, but that would include same scenario plus attacks and spells. And sorry if I come off sounding a bit harsh, but some people are having a REALLY hard time and it would be nice if people would lay off till things were better adjusted. And since WHEN did these monsters get bean cakes eh? I mean seriously using SPRINT to chase some of them down only for them to STILL outrun me???)

To answer both of you, farming is not done in groups of eight. We rarely have more than four or five guildies on at a time. If I use pickups, they either don't have vent or don't want to get on, that's where the communication takes place not chat. Henchies and heroes don't chat and they steal drops. I don't farm to get rich, I farm for the thrill of the treasure hunt. I don't mind doing all the quests and stuff the first time through, but I don't want to do it for all of my characters. Everyone who is playing enjoyed the game the way it was or they would no longer be playing. Now, half the population is pissed off and if it's not fixed I'm sure many will quit playing. I paid for the GW that I knew and loved. I hate what I got.

It's so sad.. now we know what 99% of the active gwguru posters spend their time doing. This human hoarding tendency and need for self affirmation of one player against the the entire enemy must be checked.

Seriously, I'm not sure I'm playing the same game as the rest of the "farmers" on this forum

But yes, playing the AI in regular pve w/ pugs is so broken now compared to before.
Being a monk is about as exciting as it used to be in FOW when the book trcik was rampant in every group. The absolute worst pugs can no easily get through most of UW. FOW can be completely cleared in 1.5 to 2 hours. I can't imagine what it must be like in regular mission areas now.

Hey, I should go complete all those Defend Kryta and other high end quests now while I have a chance!


Here is bascially how the current enemy AI now works:

Regardless of who aggro'd, check the chain of aggro and fnid the highest armor character. All enemy monsters immediately converge or start casting on said player (99% of the time a warrior).
AOE starts falling, SS starts spreading, but the warrior is dying. Keep attacking!
Oh my, hp is < 50%, run away!
No more AOE, run back and attack same high armor target!
All monsters flattened before ele players have a chance to cast a 2nd meteor shower.

Or even better:

Warrior goes down because monk fell asleep from boredom.
Mob scatters and starts chasing the ranger, and eles. Everyone breaks and run.
A monk runs in and casts res chant on warrior.
Every single monsters immediately does a 180 and all once again converge on warrior.
They really hate that warrior!
AOE nuke, all monsters die. No player casters are even bruised.
Monk goes back to sleep.

Half the population? Have you actually asked half the gamer population that plays Guild Wars? Do you know for a fact that there are over 400,000 (Which is less than a quarter of the overall product sales for this series)players that hate this patch?

It seems to me that only the farmers are throwing a hissy fit. There seems to be quite a few of us players who seem to like the improved AI.

I have played for many hours since the patch. I was online when the patch was freaking implimented!! I have seen the monsters immediately flee!

You know what I did? I was smart enough not to chase them and to flag my henches so they didn't either. It's not hard to do! I promise!

And how does expressing my opinion make me a troll?! Last I knew, that was the point of this damn thread was to discuss the new AI problems and solutions. I offered solutions! Six of them! They work! Have you offered anything other then bitching?! I've yet to see anything. Wait... Nope, I still don't see anything...

Besides, for how long now has there been a non-stop streaming of complaint threads about farmers and farming bots?! A new one was even created today! A-net takes a step towards giving a solution to those thousands of complaints, and now you bitch about that! Give it a rest people! Damn!!

This is my last post in this thread. It should have been closed along time ago, just like the other 10 that are pretty much the same damn stream of bitching with no one offering suggestions and solutions. It's the same damn thing that happens every time A-net makes a major improvement that forces players to "think" about how to do things in a new way. It's the same damn stream of "GG A-net for screwing up the game..." Every other post throughout this thread has exactly that written.

A-net has sold over 2 million copies of the Guild Wars series worldwide. I'm pretty damn sure they know EXACTLY what they are doing, and I'm sure they have a reason for doing it. If you don't like it, tough! They are the ones making millions off the copies that are selling at an increasing rate.

What have you accomplished in the gaming industry to question and openly insult their motives? Where are all the threads praising the aspects of the game series that we love the most? And you call me a troll...

What you fail to understand is that for the MOST part we can live with the new AI, its the GLITCHES of the AI that need to be fixed! And I don't give chase, they friggen chase me, but if I even turn around to chase them they flee and thusly I turn around and leave them alone and they continue to follow... *see above pics for example*!

I to was online when it was implimented, I can DEAL with the new AI, but there are BUGS to it. We should not be having to deal with BUGS and GLITCHES as they are making it frustrating! Again since WHEN do monsters carry sprint? Check my bar, I was RUNNING that area not farming it and I still couldn't lose that bugger..... GLITCH (not AI funness!)

See you stated that this should be discussed and so forth but you are asking for the thread to be closed.... o_O Yeah thats what I meant by trolling. Again while a LOT of the posts in here might just be simple bitching and whining it originally started out as a way to help those that were having AI issues, now this thread contains not just the bitching, but ideas, as well as OBVIOUS bugs and glitches that should be addressed. What a LOT of the bitching is about are the bugs and glitches. I agree that those whining about kiting is just silly, but if something can chase you halfway across the map and "KNOW" you are going to attack it before you even take a swing and start running then OBVIOUSLY something is wrong. I mean just because something runs at me in pvp doesn't mean its going to attack me, it could be after something behind me for all I know (some monsters dont like each other). Another obvious bug is that ALL tanks or henchies with high AL are now holding books and the damage is NOT spread out except for when an ele uses an AOE on your party... GLITCHES ARE THE REASONS FOR THE BITCHING!

You can claim Anet knows what they are doing but you also fail to understand the fact that they are HUMAN and humans make mistakes (GREEN STAFFS). I am not bitching at anet for the choice they made to improve I am looking for an answer to the issues that the coding caused (GLITCHES). Does that clearify things?
BTW reread or learn to read or something... I never said ANYTHING about Anet being idiots nor did I flame them. I said it was FUBR and right now with the glitches IT IS! Check around for posts by Gaile and you might learn something, like: THEY MAKE MISTAKES If we do not let them know about the mistakes they cannot fix them and from what I have learned from Gaile they usually prefer to read it on the board rather than getting 2305972059723592735 complaint tickets

-----------
And lastly for the record of this thread I did go out solo on my ranger to try and solo things and nothing ran from me. However in Tyria and Factions this is a different story.... Right now I think its safe to say that while they were trying to challenge us they made some mistakes in the coding. Not everything runs away, even in large or small party form, no matter the level. It't completely random for the most part. Please have some patience till the bugs get worked out and we know for sure what the intended AI was. I can not for the life of me believe that this AI adjustment went perfectly into place.

BTW there are still things to farm that dont flee in terror its the things I am not farming that are giving me issues lol.

^Well said. Im one of the players that have played GW since the beta release in the beginning and this is MY point of view that I think many of you can relate to.

This is the whole point for the reason that there are MASS complaints. Not every player will play GW for the same reasons. Some play for the RPG aspect, some play because they like PUGing, and alot of people play this game because you have the option of playing solo and not have to deal with the inconsistancy of group play. Im one of those people.

The economics of the decision for this update confuses me. I can't believe that they would take a game that made the users happy and change it so drastically that it would make many actually quit the game than try to adapt to the new updates. Don't get me wrong, there were many things in the update that I thought were a long time coming. Example: Being able to save your builds on a template for quick access and sharing, the randomizing of rare chest drops so that when a gold drops for one player a purple can drop from the same chest for another player......etc. The thing that is upsetting me is that I had the option to be able to play solo, in a group or with hench. Since soloing is no more and the new AI for the enemies makes the henchies react crazy, your time with hench is now spent flagging to control their location, and chasing down targets, you have no time to focus on your own skills to get the job done.
It makes the game too frustrating for the players like myself to play so we will simply just stop play all together. I work hard at my job and have no time to have to worry about trying to find new builds or adapt to the new game play. I'll just find another game to play thats less frusrating and more fun.

I'm somewhat dissapointed though. I've played GW for a long time and to have to go out like this is sad really.

The bottom line is, if something is not done to make game play more consistant, many (and I mean MANY) people will not play again. Thus dropping current and future sales for any new releases to the GW series.

Sorry for the long rant, but I had to :P

{KoS}