This is for everyone that has Nightfall, at least 1 hero, and have had a lot of experience with guildwars or factions
I want to know if your hero "learns" how to use a build whether it be on its own or if you have to constantly execute their skills in a certain order
For example, a renewal echo nuker, you could do arcane echo > meteor shower > renewal > meteor shower or renewal > meteor shower > arcane echo > meteor shower
Is it possible to "teach" your hero either way to do it (as in if you use the skills in a set order a lot the hero will pick it up), does the hero figure it out without your input, or is it not possible and you have to "babysit" your hero (execute their build while you just stand there)? I have a build that has 4 skills that need to be executed as 1, 2, 3, 4 left to right. The renewal echo nuker has those 3 skills that need to be used back and forth.
I've been reluctant to buy Nightfall because of this issue so I'd appreciate anything you've encountered with your heros builds
Heros and their builds
Monkey Man 5000
desolatorman
you can queue certain skills that you want him to cast more frequently... but i dont think they have the capablity to utilize an actual build
because they are AI... not human
because they are AI... not human
Dravyn
Actually, I set up Koss with a For Greater Justice/Dragon Slash build and he does it like a champ. Perfect execution, from what I can tell, but the mobs die pretty fast at the stage I'm in, so its hard for me to tell how he does in an extended battle.
Monkey Man 5000
I know some skills require a condition to be met before used and the heros know that, but some ai have proper builds
The Ice Imp for example, will use Mind Freeze to slow you, then Maelstrom, even though Maelstrom doesn't need the player to be moving slow as any type of condition to be met
Ice Imp's when you aggro them always use Mind Freeze 1st
Would a hero do that?
Can someone find out?
The Ice Imp for example, will use Mind Freeze to slow you, then Maelstrom, even though Maelstrom doesn't need the player to be moving slow as any type of condition to be met
Ice Imp's when you aggro them always use Mind Freeze 1st
Would a hero do that?
Can someone find out?
The truth itself
Heroes are idiots at using some skills.
Some skills have have more than one purpose, eg. heroes will cast guradian if you're being attacked... Good.
But if you give them a prot build, they refuse to heal via divine favor of casting guardian.. Not good.
Some skills have have more than one purpose, eg. heroes will cast guradian if you're being attacked... Good.
But if you give them a prot build, they refuse to heal via divine favor of casting guardian.. Not good.
Synthetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man 5000
I know some skills require a condition to be met before used and the heros know that, but some ai have proper builds
The Ice Imp for example, will use Mind Freeze to slow you, then Maelstrom, even though Maelstrom doesn't need the player to be moving slow as any type of condition to be met
Ice Imp's when you aggro them always use Mind Freeze 1st
Would a hero do that?
Can someone find out? Mindfreeze does serve a purpose there. It prevents the player from simply running out of maelstorm right away. If the interrupts do not get a chance to serve their purpose it is at least a few more guaranteed hits while moving 90% slower or whatever mind freeze is.
The Ice Imp for example, will use Mind Freeze to slow you, then Maelstrom, even though Maelstrom doesn't need the player to be moving slow as any type of condition to be met
Ice Imp's when you aggro them always use Mind Freeze 1st
Would a hero do that?
Can someone find out? Mindfreeze does serve a purpose there. It prevents the player from simply running out of maelstorm right away. If the interrupts do not get a chance to serve their purpose it is at least a few more guaranteed hits while moving 90% slower or whatever mind freeze is.
Fistandantulus
i think thats the point monkey man is trying to make, even though they dont have to, the imps use mind freeze first to make malestrom more effective
Monkey Man 5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fistandantulus
i think thats the point monkey man is trying to make, even though they dont have to, the imps use mind freeze first to make malestrom more effective
Fist knows what I'm talkin' about
If you were to give a hero Mind Freeze and Maelstrom, at the start of every battle would your hero always use Mind Freeze followed by Maelstrom like the Ice Imps (or any other slow and aoe skill)? If not, do you think there should be a way to "script" your hero so it does it automatically?
I would want more control over heros, not having say a monk hero using mend ailment on an ally being hit with apply poison
That's just stupid
If you were to give a hero Mind Freeze and Maelstrom, at the start of every battle would your hero always use Mind Freeze followed by Maelstrom like the Ice Imps (or any other slow and aoe skill)? If not, do you think there should be a way to "script" your hero so it does it automatically?
I would want more control over heros, not having say a monk hero using mend ailment on an ally being hit with apply poison
That's just stupid
Elasxa
Give him Mend Condition or Restore Condition, then. Quicker recharge, and at least you get a guaranteed heal that way. 
I guess if I find my heroes aren't using a build I gave them effectively, I will look for ways to adapt the build to their AI. Which isn't to say I will object to any upgrades ANet decide to make..
I guess if I find my heroes aren't using a build I gave them effectively, I will look for ways to adapt the build to their AI. Which isn't to say I will object to any upgrades ANet decide to make..
shadowmist
The AI is set up so it will use things as "intuitively" as the AI can. If there's a certain skill that has high priority in it's skill bar, it will cast if first on the target with the highest priority. If certain conditions are met, it will attempt to proceed with a proper response. At least that's my understanding of it. That's not to say they can do things like humans, but Anet did try their best. To my knowledge, you can't "teach" the AI skill combos not already set into their base AI.
My experience with heroes so far is fairly good, though just putting some of the builds I use onto them doesn't work out all the time. If Anet were to update with a way to have a hero use certain skills in a certain order it would be great. Like maybe having three slots on a skill bar kinda set so its slightly higher than the rest of the skills and have the skills you want used in a certain order in there?
My experience with heroes so far is fairly good, though just putting some of the builds I use onto them doesn't work out all the time. If Anet were to update with a way to have a hero use certain skills in a certain order it would be great. Like maybe having three slots on a skill bar kinda set so its slightly higher than the rest of the skills and have the skills you want used in a certain order in there?
SalamandraTheNinja
It seems... what we're asking for here, is exactly the same as the Gambit system. From FFXII.
explodemyheart
I set Talkora up with a boon prot build and she runs it better than I do 
, even with the slam to MoR and inspired/revealed.
I set Olias up with an SS build, and he definitely throws down awaken -> arcane echo -> SS -> SS like a champ.
I plan on trying a heavy nuker build with Sousuke within the next couple of days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The truth itself
, even with the slam to MoR and inspired/revealed.I set Olias up with an SS build, and he definitely throws down awaken -> arcane echo -> SS -> SS like a champ.
I plan on trying a heavy nuker build with Sousuke within the next couple of days.
Quote:
But if you give them a prot build, they refuse to heal via divine favor of casting guardian.. Not good.
Not sure what you're talking about here, Talkora did it fine for me earlier. And I'm talking about a prot build, not boon prot.
mrlopes
I set Talkora as a boon prot, and it uses it with no flaws, MoR as soon as the previous ends, Insp Hex used as soon as available/needed, RoF, Mend condition, it really does a nice job.
I've set Olias as a MM with Blood Ritual as first skill and it also uses the build very very good, for instance he don't spam Flesh Golem, it just uses it when the previous near to dead or already dead.
Koss with a Dragon Slash build also work perfect (he keeps Watch Yourself always on).
The ranger/mesmer (don't remember name now) is set as a barrager/interrupter and it work like a charm.
So I'm pretty happy with the heroes AI. When things don't work as we expected maybe we could change it a little bit.
My Ele Centaur hero, i've set with a Earth build, not worked so well, cause it uses exaustion skills to often, so it just needs a little adjustment and is doing well now.
I've set Olias as a MM with Blood Ritual as first skill and it also uses the build very very good, for instance he don't spam Flesh Golem, it just uses it when the previous near to dead or already dead.
Koss with a Dragon Slash build also work perfect (he keeps Watch Yourself always on).
The ranger/mesmer (don't remember name now) is set as a barrager/interrupter and it work like a charm.
So I'm pretty happy with the heroes AI. When things don't work as we expected maybe we could change it a little bit.
My Ele Centaur hero, i've set with a Earth build, not worked so well, cause it uses exaustion skills to often, so it just needs a little adjustment and is doing well now.
justadude
After choosing Jin I set her up with Poison Arrow / Screaming shot and that worked well, but where she really shines is set as an interrupt. Now oppsing mobs never seem to cast anything. With Jin armed with three interrupts I dont even take the healers out first.
Triamn
I set jin up with practice stance/choking gas, and its giving me no trouble either.
milcs
Just want to say that my Heroes with Boon Prot or Shock Warrior, run these builds perfectly!
Dankoro puts divine boon as soon as we enter an area and keeps casting mantra of recall and recasting it when it runs off!
I'm completely AMAZED with the AI levels and I completely think they have done an astonishing job in this matter!
Well done Anet!
Dankoro puts divine boon as soon as we enter an area and keeps casting mantra of recall and recasting it when it runs off!
I'm completely AMAZED with the AI levels and I completely think they have done an astonishing job in this matter!
Well done Anet!
cataphract
I've set up Koss with sever artery, gash, final thrust, hundred blades, watch yourself - he's quite good at it, too. Tahlkora is a prot monk and was having trouble with energy management until I gave her PnH. She shines even brighter now that I have set the Whisper guy as curses/blood with Blood Ritual. Most of the time I can just watch them fight it out with the mobs while I cast party and aegis every now and then.
Hengis
Setting up my ranger hero with a simple barrage pet build and she plays it better than I can!
The AI seems to know when barrage is going to hit multiple targets and when it is not, and if it is not going to hit multiple targets then she uses a single arrow attack.
My son was watcing me play and he commented on the amount of times she used skills in exactly the same order and at exactly the same time as I did.
All in all, the Hero AI is pretty amazing.
The AI seems to know when barrage is going to hit multiple targets and when it is not, and if it is not going to hit multiple targets then she uses a single arrow attack.
My son was watcing me play and he commented on the amount of times she used skills in exactly the same order and at exactly the same time as I did.
All in all, the Hero AI is pretty amazing.
SeraCombi
Quote:
Originally Posted by justadude
After choosing Jin I set her up with Poison Arrow / Screaming shot and that worked well, but where she really shines is set as an interrupt. Now oppsing mobs never seem to cast anything. With Jin armed with three interrupts I dont even take the healers out first.
werd that brother! I've been slavering to set my new ranger hero [jin] up as an interupter. so much so that i've saved the build for Daeman (the factions henchie interupter) found on guildwiki...so that I can replicated it on jin. I figure that if it works well on him, it will work well on another AI-controlled unit.
Suuk
I have the horseguy set as fire/earth ele with renewal, ward vs elements and MS (setup for a specific quest). He casts the glyph and insists on using a ward directly after that....well, that is if you do the ctrl+spacebar+target thing. I ended up by turning off the ward, because he was casting it even when fighting non-elemental dmg mobs.
EinherjarMx
the ele, well, is just dumb enough to attack repeteadly, he runs out of energy very soon, and forget about using mind burn, exhaustion will get him very soon
on the other hand, dunkoro's boon prot build is great!, he casts MoR after it ends, acolyte jin, use her as a barrager/interrupter and she does the work fine
the assassin, wel... she doesn't know the shove>falling spider>twisting fangs combo, even if you only equip those skills ¬¬ so i better put her as a crit barrager with a zealous bow
the dervish will do great as soon as i know the dervs mechanichs XD
on the other hand, dunkoro's boon prot build is great!, he casts MoR after it ends, acolyte jin, use her as a barrager/interrupter and she does the work fine
the assassin, wel... she doesn't know the shove>falling spider>twisting fangs combo, even if you only equip those skills ¬¬ so i better put her as a crit barrager with a zealous bow
the dervish will do great as soon as i know the dervs mechanichs XD
Leijah
I've noticed that monks don't use signets very often. I've never seen them using Signet of Devotion even they had 0 mana.
I guess they use signets only when their other skills are recharging.
I'm using Olias as a minion master with BR. He does the work just fine and BRs monks regulary. The problem with this is that the monks keep on healing the minions and this way waste their energy.
I also noticed that eles don't use attunements. I took Ether Prodigy as their energy managment.
I guess they use signets only when their other skills are recharging.
I'm using Olias as a minion master with BR. He does the work just fine and BRs monks regulary. The problem with this is that the monks keep on healing the minions and this way waste their energy.
I also noticed that eles don't use attunements. I took Ether Prodigy as their energy managment.
Cebe
I noticed that Zhed did use Elemental Attunement.
I have come to the conclusion that the heroes tend to use their elite skills first: Some examples:
Zhed Shadowhoof...Game him elemental attunement and he always applies that first
Olias...Gave him Suffering and Feast of Corruption. He always casted FoC first, then suffering....
Koss...Gave him a Hammer Mastery elite - whenever it was recharged he would use it. I changed this for Charge....now he spams it whenever possible.
Master of Whispers...Game him Spiteful Spirit which is always the first skill he uses. I also tied him with Well of Power...whenever a corpse dies he uses that straight away (technically no bad thing!)
Acolyte Sousuke...Gave him Unsteady Ground, Ash Blast, Churning Earth (amongst others)...always used Unsteady Ground first.
Dunno if they are meant to use ther elites first but sometimes it's not a great plan!
The only thing I did notice was that the Monks, Dunkoro and Tahlkora did not use their elites instantly...PErhaps because I gave Dunkoro Expel Hexes (no, I had no better elite at the time...I was starting a monk myself)...he only ever used it when someone was hexed.
I have come to the conclusion that the heroes tend to use their elite skills first: Some examples:
Zhed Shadowhoof...Game him elemental attunement and he always applies that first
Olias...Gave him Suffering and Feast of Corruption. He always casted FoC first, then suffering....
Koss...Gave him a Hammer Mastery elite - whenever it was recharged he would use it. I changed this for Charge....now he spams it whenever possible.
Master of Whispers...Game him Spiteful Spirit which is always the first skill he uses. I also tied him with Well of Power...whenever a corpse dies he uses that straight away (technically no bad thing!)
Acolyte Sousuke...Gave him Unsteady Ground, Ash Blast, Churning Earth (amongst others)...always used Unsteady Ground first.
Dunno if they are meant to use ther elites first but sometimes it's not a great plan!
The only thing I did notice was that the Monks, Dunkoro and Tahlkora did not use their elites instantly...PErhaps because I gave Dunkoro Expel Hexes (no, I had no better elite at the time...I was starting a monk myself)...he only ever used it when someone was hexed.
Lordhelmos
After some experimentation with builds, I've found one that's just plain devastating. Try this out:
~Twinkle Fingers~
(Zhed or Acolyte Sousuke)
E/me
1.) Power Drain
2.) Cry of Frustration
3.) Psychic Distraction (Elite)
4.) Ward Against Melee
5.) Drain Enchantment
6.) Ether Feast
7.) Hex Breaker
8.) Rez Sig
Attributes/Runes:
1 Sup Estorage, 2 Attunement, 1 Minor Earth, Vigor
Equipment:
Illyana's Staff, Korvald's Set, Willcrusher, or 15-1 Focus and Domination Wand.
Att. Spread:
Insp: 10
Dom: 10
Earth: 8
Estorage: 13
This build has made Sousuke my all time favorite hero. He utilizes every single skill to downright perfection. Against huge mobs, cry of frustration can interrupt up to 10 enemies at once. Just take him on the first siege mission and watch him stop 8 crossfire bowman at the same time. Using psychic distraction, he will perfectly interrupt every single 1+ sec enemy cast (and sometimes things like RoF and Quickshot). He just snaps his fingers and all enemy casters go on lockdown. When endangered he throws up ward against melee and uses ether feast. He always keeps hex breaker running and when low on E he will interrupt with powerdrain and use drain enchants. This build makes Sousuke an interrupt monster with almost limitless energy. Seriously, you will never ever see an enemy finish a healing sig or troll unguent. It's just plain crazy.
I LoL at people who take Jin because they want an interrupter...
~Twinkle Fingers~
(Zhed or Acolyte Sousuke)
E/me
1.) Power Drain
2.) Cry of Frustration
3.) Psychic Distraction (Elite)
4.) Ward Against Melee
5.) Drain Enchantment
6.) Ether Feast
7.) Hex Breaker
8.) Rez Sig
Attributes/Runes:
1 Sup Estorage, 2 Attunement, 1 Minor Earth, Vigor
Equipment:
Illyana's Staff, Korvald's Set, Willcrusher, or 15-1 Focus and Domination Wand.
Att. Spread:
Insp: 10
Dom: 10
Earth: 8
Estorage: 13
This build has made Sousuke my all time favorite hero. He utilizes every single skill to downright perfection. Against huge mobs, cry of frustration can interrupt up to 10 enemies at once. Just take him on the first siege mission and watch him stop 8 crossfire bowman at the same time. Using psychic distraction, he will perfectly interrupt every single 1+ sec enemy cast (and sometimes things like RoF and Quickshot). He just snaps his fingers and all enemy casters go on lockdown. When endangered he throws up ward against melee and uses ether feast. He always keeps hex breaker running and when low on E he will interrupt with powerdrain and use drain enchants. This build makes Sousuke an interrupt monster with almost limitless energy. Seriously, you will never ever see an enemy finish a healing sig or troll unguent. It's just plain crazy.
I LoL at people who take Jin because they want an interrupter...
Crimso
I tried both acoylte sousuke and zhed shadowhoof as starbursters in HA you have to disable meteor shower and glyph of sacrafice but make them use it when you tell them if you put lock on and make both of them deaths charge to the right target theyown anyone they can even run up to whoever and use flame burts and inferno more acurrately then any player.
glountz
Use Norgu, he's better as he is a mesmer, y'know.
Zenmai seems not to use properly his attack chains.
She uses the skills very slowly (I mean she waits between each attack skill and do not spam them). I put them to the left for high priority, if you wonder.
Worst, I set her with Unsuspecting strike, Wild strike, and Critical strikes (a chain she can cycle really well to have high DPS) and she seems reluctant to use Unsuspecting strike if her target is not above 90% health.
Grr.
Monks heal very well and interupters interrupt very well also. Warriors use their skills fine.
Zenmai seems not to use properly his attack chains.
She uses the skills very slowly (I mean she waits between each attack skill and do not spam them). I put them to the left for high priority, if you wonder.
Worst, I set her with Unsuspecting strike, Wild strike, and Critical strikes (a chain she can cycle really well to have high DPS) and she seems reluctant to use Unsuspecting strike if her target is not above 90% health.
Grr.
Monks heal very well and interupters interrupt very well also. Warriors use their skills fine.
Lordhelmos
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
Use Norgu, he's better as he is a mesmer, y'know.
Zenmai seems not to use properly his attack chains.
She uses the skills very slowly (I mean she waits between each attack skill and do not spam them). I put them to the left for high priority, if you wonder.
Worst, I set her with Unsuspecting strike, Wild strike, and Critical strikes (a chain she can cycle really well to have high DPS) and she seems reluctant to use Unsuspecting strike if her target is not above 90% health.
Grr.
Monks heal very well and interupters interrupt very well also. Warriors use their skills fine. Norgu burns out of E, having an elementalist with 100 energy and AI reflexes on interrupts means that they can spam till the end of time. I've had Sousuke run interrupter better because of the sheer amount of energy he can use to abuse Psychic distraction before he needs to drain enchants or PD. In comparison to Norgu's 50 E, Sousuke has double the amount and can interrupts x2 more than Norgu.
Zenmai seems not to use properly his attack chains.
She uses the skills very slowly (I mean she waits between each attack skill and do not spam them). I put them to the left for high priority, if you wonder.
Worst, I set her with Unsuspecting strike, Wild strike, and Critical strikes (a chain she can cycle really well to have high DPS) and she seems reluctant to use Unsuspecting strike if her target is not above 90% health.
Grr.
Monks heal very well and interupters interrupt very well also. Warriors use their skills fine. Norgu burns out of E, having an elementalist with 100 energy and AI reflexes on interrupts means that they can spam till the end of time. I've had Sousuke run interrupter better because of the sheer amount of energy he can use to abuse Psychic distraction before he needs to drain enchants or PD. In comparison to Norgu's 50 E, Sousuke has double the amount and can interrupts x2 more than Norgu.
Katari
I've got my necro heros running this: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ferrerid=92302
Combined with Jin using Barrage/interupts, Koss, and other physical heros/henchies/players.
They seem to give horrors priority over fiend for some reason, but it works quite well otheriese.
Combined with Jin using Barrage/interupts, Koss, and other physical heros/henchies/players.
They seem to give horrors priority over fiend for some reason, but it works quite well otheriese.