Guild Wars Chapter 4.

Hello, hello,

I've seen a lot of people talk about profession and skill ideas, as well as features and whatnot which can be thrown into the fourth Chapter of Guild Wars, so I decided to throw my extensive (and hopefully well thought out piece) to the Guru community. Please keep this in mind as you read this:

I am not looking for new profession ideas, I don't want them. I don't think Guild Wars needs any new professions because we have enough as it is. What I am interested in is the actual lore, themes, and environment. Thus, I have designed my own idea for the Chapter 4 world.

So far, we have had Tyria, with its typical, epic looking fantasy medieval setting (excluding Kryta which is more... how shall I say, tropical?).

We have Cantha, a place of Asiatic mysticism and intrigue.

Now we have Elona, a place of merchants, a place of the desert, a place of the Bazaar with a fusion of African and Indian themes (very beautifully done Arena.Net!).

Where will we travel to next? Sit down, and listen to me as I spin a yarn. You just might like my idea...

I would like to see a European continent where, while there is gunpowder, the uses for gunpowder excludes weapons (I.E NO BOOMSTICKS OTHER THAN LAND OR SEA BASED HEAVY CANNONS-...Ahem). The society of this continent, while not exactly having guns, they do have cannons(I must reiterate this point) for their navy (I’ll get into that later). This people would be scientifically sophisticated – to the point where they have ships that are powered by steam engines.

The main continent itself would be in the center of the Guild Wars world, and it would act as a political and economic hub where the trade of all the other nations takes place. This political and economical development has made the place very, very rich.

The name of this land? Alistos (Pronounced: ali-ess-tose) where even the poorest of peasants can afford a meal fit for a prince, or at least a lesser merchant.

Before I continue, I know... I know, some of you are already yelling that this isn't canonical because, as most of us know, the Xunlai are the ones who are responsible for all economical and trade transactions across the Guild Wars World. Well, hold on a second. This particular chapter is set a little farther along in the time-line, sometime after the events of Nightfall. Between then and this Chapter there is enough time for... how shall I say, a competitive business to rise and challenge the Xunlai monopoly on trade. This competitor is the Mancipo Guild of Alistos. Guild officials are formally referred to as Mancipos (Mancipo; Latin for making a formal transaction, or selling something formally).

Okay, now, on with my idea... And this is the good part!

However, this land is not a continent at all. It is a massive collection of islands, an archipelago. Unlike most archipelagos, though, these islands are never too far apart from one another. As a result, over the many decades, and centuries of commercial and political development, the cities on each island have overgrown their own island and have connected to their neighbouring city-isles by massive bridges, upon which heavy locomotives travel back and forth. The smallest of these bridges can hold at least two sets of tracks, one for a train that is going to a destination, and the other for a train that is coming from.

These trains are by no means very small. One can easily be the size of a ten story apartment building that's laying on its side. How do these trains interact with the player? Well, they're so big that I propose that you can do missions in them. Oh yes, you can expect bandits to try and get into these trains while they're en-route to their destination and hustle up some loot from the very rich passengers! These missions would, of course, only need to be done once. As we all know, Guild Wars has the nifty quick-travel system to go from outpost to outpost, but in order to get from one of the city-districts to another you'll have to complete these convoy defense missions at least once in order to be brought to the next outpost.

As you can easily figure out, missions like this eliminate the problem of 'running' that plagued Prophecies. Yeah, I think it is a problem, and I know it is one because Arena.Net has done a lot of things to try and fix it or stop it from happening for a reason. This is just my nod to them and their efforts. If you don't like it, please refrain from putting yourself into a mad scurry to yell at me, I don't want to hear about it because you have to remember that this is just an idea and my attempt to be creative. So. On the Alistos!

Under these bridges, paddle ships, which are powered by steam and coal would float and chug by, carrying passengers and commercial cargo. These boats are a cheaper and older, but still very reliable, transportation system that has been used by the Medeii and the Medians since the beginning of known Alistos history (more on these two groups later).

Eventually, each city seized a degree of its power to its neighbour for political and economical convenience. This fused all the central city-isles under one banner. The collective identity for this new super-state is 'Medius'. (Medius is the latin word for middle, or center, because this main archipelago is in the middle of the world)

You can probably already form a relatively clear picture of what this place looks like in your head, but for those of you here who are having trouble... Here you go:

What I am essentially proposing is a land that looks very much like Venice... But this is Venice on a scale never before imagined.

There are, however, some islands which are too far from the main body of islands to be connected to the web of bridges that connects the Medius together. Some of them were excluded from the political power play that fused the identity of all the main islands together, others were given an option to either remain independent, or they could relinquish political power to the Medius, upon which they would be transformed into external trading hubs or guard ports where the Medius navy could dock, refuel, and rearm. The navy of the Medius is called 'Unda Praesidium' which is Latin for Water Guard.

The people who live in the main archipelago are called the Medeii (pronounced: me-deh-ee) and the people who live on the islands which are not part of the political superpower of the main super state archipelago are called the Medians.

Initially, cargo and passengers were ferried to these faraway islands by small ferries, but somewhere in Medius history... Someone came up with, and built, the first Wharfship.

Wharfships are massive town sized barge-like contraptions that are propelled by either sail or steam methods. More often than not, these ships are powered by some combination of the two. Slave labor is unheard of in Alistos, mainly because the Medius forbid it by law, but as you can guess. Also, it's pointless to use slave labor to row a Wharfship because there are cheaper means available (namely, steam engines). That doesn't mean slave-labour hasn't been heard of on small (compared to Wharfships) rogue merchant vessels for... Other uses. These laws also don't deter pirates from running a slave-trade operation in secret. One that is, sadly, successful.

The Wharfships serve as massive, mobile cargo and merchant vessels. They carry anything that can be bought, even other ships. They anchor just off the edge of one of the Median islands. The Medians would then row, sail, or paddle, to the Wharfships. The Wharfships are so large that they even have their own docks built along the edge of their hulls, on which small ships can moor. These are machines that are easily two square kilometers in length - but richer Wharfship crews have been known to own vessels that are easily up to five square kilometres in size.

All of the Wharfships are recognized and protected by Medius, mainly because Medius owns the property rights of these ships. It is in the massive foundries and external shipyards floating no more than a few hundred meters off the coast of the Medeii city boundaries that these Wharfships are built.

However, this does not deter pirates from trying to assault and raid the Wharfships. A lot of cargo has been lost to these marauding bands. Bounty hunters and adventurers alike are rewarded handsome fees and bounties for the capture, or destruction of the pirate clans. The waters around the Medius are always a dangerous place, whether because of pirate or monster attacks. Wharfship crews often commission parties of adventurers to protect their ships while they make their way to one of the outer island-cities off the main coast of the Medius (that, ladies and gentlemen, is an example of where you, the player, can come in).

Lately, the pirate raids have been getting progressively worse. Normally the pirate gangs are too arrogant and brutish to be able to get along with one another, but they are increasingly swearing their allegiance to an elusive leader who calls himself Venaliter. He is a man who has never actually been seen by the authorities, but his mark is becoming increasingly common on many hulls of different pirate clans. Some speculate that he is a persuasive foreigner who has plans to throw Medius into a state of anarchy, but nothing has been truly confirmed (This is essentially the main idea around which the plot of the story should revolve).

And there you go! Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Gimme! I hope you all enjoy this idea as much as I enjoyed writing it!

EDIT: I will update this as new ideas come to mind.

UPDATE: I'd like to thank my girlfriend and guild leader, the lovely Stephanie Rapturous, for coming up with the name 'Alistos'.

SOON TO COME: Theme song for the Medius city-state written and created by Masenka of the CTG Music Community!

It sounds very, very, interesting. As I am always pessimistic I have some concerns. Pirates? Again? They are in every game. That's all the abd stuff. These Wharfships sound AWESOME! Kind of like a mission for every ship. The whole commerce thing has me going since farming has been nerfedand maybe some new stock market type idea will be introduced. I have always been a fan of ships, as I own two sailboats, and this, to me, is pretty enticing. As said, I could ditch the pirates for anything else almost, but, the ships and the commerce ideas are really nice.

There are pirates in the other Guild Wars chapters?.. Well, there are bandits and assassins... Undead, but never the pirates as the main antagonist.

You have to remember that you can't really have a water-world without some kind of raiding/pirate-like faction running around and stealing things from people. What else will you call them?

I dont know, I suppose there are a need for a pirate-like charcater.

When I say they are in every game, I mean every game besides Guild Wars

But, maybe they are more like sophisticated thieves more than drunken pirates.

Ah-ah-ah. Remember, no mentioning of professions. It is my philosophy that we don't need any new professions. We have lots as it is.

Anyway, I was thinking of a blend. Sophisticated pirates, but ones that aren't above trying to drink each other under the table, as it were. I'm not one of those people who will want pirates wherever I go, it's just that with an environment like Alistos you can't really avoid calling bandits who sail around and raid merchant ships and Wharfships pirates.

Unless you have an alternative?

Nice you see you Necris, long time no see. I'm short on time so I will just get to commenting on the idea.

Bandits, Pirates, Corsairs, Gangs, there are criminals in every chapter, although Corsairs are basicly Pirates.... they are Pirates, Corsair is just a more developed identity.

I find the idea of a more European chapter to be a good idea in the future, I also think a island type theme would be a good idea for the next chapter. I think an island theme with European cultures is very weak, island cultures should be a diversity at the least, and most certainly revolve more heavily around Carribean and Hawian culture, some Caucasian influence is good, a European based Island chapter is not.

Ascolon is European, with some strong Western European influence, Kryta is very African. Cantha is very Asian, with a good mix of different Asian cultures, perhaps even some Russian culture. I think Orr was kind of Persian or Arabic, but Elona is definetely Arabic and Middle Eastern, with some Egyptian and African.

I am all for Sailing, especially if we can actually navigate our own ships and explore the sea with guild mates. I am all for an island and sea chapter, the only other cutlture not touched on is Native American, and I think a little Sea Exploration could stand to come first. I can see some English influence, especially if we are doing islands, and England is an island, but like Prophecies, a diversity of cultures is definetly better, and island cultures should focus more on cultures other than European. Besides that, there is still room for a good Europeans chapter, and if you make some mish mash with europeans in an island chapter, you kill island themes for the predominate cultures they belong to, and kill european themes for a good mainland chapter that they belong in.

Beside that, there is the Gunpowder and Cannons which are already in the game, via Dwarven Gunpowder and Siege Turtles, so mounting them on ships is not a crime, but as you know, I will always oppose guns.

At the end of it all, including all of this doesn't excuse excluding new professions. There are several demanding reasons why we should have new professions. First and formost, there are PvP players who need something new, a new PvP mode and locations are standard, as well as new professions to expand the PvP experience. No amount of storyline and "content" will replace the experience of new professions for PvP players, they woln't see the storyline, they woln't care how good waterfalls look, they woln't even bother with it, and with our new PvP packs, the significance of new professions is undeniable.

Second, There are alot of identities not even close to realization with the exsisting classes, some very strong archtypes are not available in the game, and there are alot of people who want something else. I love paragon, it works great, but I still do not have a class which suits my ideal identity. Personally, I want to play a Vampire, a Samurai, and a Dragon (yeah, a dragon, not something short of it). And a good mount riding profession would be a great identity too, I personally think an Elephant Rider would be awsome.

Your philosophy can be whatever you like, I woln't argue it. But your philosophy doesn't volidify the omittion of new professions, it is just what you desire. People have been denying the addition of new classes since the game came out, but people enjoy them. It was easy to say that new professions had little to offer from our first experience, they did a poor job of balancing Assassin and Ritualist, but with Paragon and Dervish, I think it can easily be said that much enjoyment can be found in a new profession. Making them well is a must, but with enough development, balance, and most importantly, attraction, a new profession is more than welcome.

One could say, "we don't need any new games, I love the ones we have", wile another will say, "this game isn't good enough, I want something more", reguardless of which position a person takes, if a new game comes out which is better, more emaculate, action packed, streamline and enjoyable, both types of people will accept it an enjoy it. And thus is the same with new Chapters and new Classes.

So tell me, what would you say to someone if they said, "I am of the philosophy that Guild Wars does not need new chapters and content, it is perfect the way it is, and adding something new is totally unneccessary." First of all, if they are content with what they have, it matters nothing at all that other people are provided more of what they want wile the prior continues to enjoy what they already have. Second of all, Neccessities involve things like breathing, the game as a whole isn't neccessary, and fulfilling wants is its goal, fulfilling the most wants defines its success. And lastly, just because that person is perfectly fine with what he has, doesn't mean he woln't accept, use, and enjoy something more.

A water based civilization would be interesting.
Where there is water, there are pirates .
I've always wanted a viking northern European sort of setting.

My thoughts:

Desert, Asian and Medieval themes have been done throughly. Which leaves us with arctic and jungle themes to explore more in depth. Yes there have been patches of each in the various chapters, but I mean culturally based.

In addition most of the game has been played on ground level, I feel there should be more exploration of underground or overground ideas.

Hence I present two lands for examination:

Galinus, the Land of the Shining Towers.

Located amidst the jungles northwest of Kryta the tribes of the Maatel Jungle and Lai Hikanu Expanse guard the ancient temples of old, and the glorious feats of engineering of the new ages.

Believing that the ancient lineages of Kryta began deep in the dense jungles, many explorers and archeologists have traveled from afar seeking fame and fortune.

This intrusion is not taken lightly by the heritage devote inhabitants ofthe Maatel Jungle lands and oversight of excavations is tight, though there are rumors of some freelance teams unearthing things they shouldn't...and even vaguer rumors of the consequences....

Though not all those living in this almost completely untamed land see these new arrivals from afar as a problem. Many of the newer generations seek to expand trade and influence with the outside world.

As such many of this temperment have moved to the only plains area in Galinus, known as the Lai Hikanu Expanse; and have used their pursuit of knowledge and power to create new academies of the magics and massive towers that spiral into the heavens, that serve as self sufficient cities in which food is produced and items of fine crafting made, and also where population dwells in relative comfort and security.

However, of late....the rumors of excavation dead teams grow more prevalent, and strange specters are being reported on some levels within the tower cities...

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Kolkathur, the Land of the Relentless Frost

North of Ascalon and the Shiverpeaks, at the top of the world exsists a barren and unforgiving land of ice. Yet in its pride, man has streched the tentrils of civilization even there.

Living below ground in vast tunnel networks and man-made caves of ice and rock the Icatal people live in seclusion from the outside world. Having survived the hostile conditions they are used to living on the bare minimums and are fiercly distrusting of the outside world and even each other.

Yet, even so, in the name of survival, a primative, and violent, government has been created, and caves large enough to hold a "city" or two have been created.

Over time, as the population has risen, more tunnels have been dug in haste, and deeper. Yet, some warn that the weight of the tunnels closer to the surface threaten to collapse without proper support. As if these troubles were not enough, wise-men and seers forsee the dangers of digging to deep...towards the center of the world....towards the realm of the Fires of Creation.

Sounds good, and i'm agree with you in the "no more classes". 12 would be too much.

it looks very interesting, a few things i am worried about, how would you connect the other continetents with the time diffrance?
also i am fine with steam power as long as if it wasn't over done, i don't want guild wars looking the industrial revolution, mainly because the victorians aren't famous for their combat.

Fully agreed, but I wont get my hopes up for any chapter without new professions to ever happen.

- Xeeron

While your idea is quite well thought out and is plausible and believable, there are several major flaws that render your idea somewhat difficult to implement.

The first is the technology problem: the technology gap is way too big, despite saying that the timeline is different. From your descriptions and visualisations, you're actually looking for games set within the renaissance or industrial age, where steam power and coal power is fully exploited. Yet you deny the use of guns or technologically-inclined professions. In a world of steam power, if you want to mix in elements of magic, it'll become a steampunk setting. With magic augmenting what steam power can do, it is illogical and impossible to justify the non-existence of guns and more spectacular ranged weaponry. Melee weapons would be reduced to a more defensive role.

The possible resolution to this would be that professions actually function differently while in this campaign, so there could be whole new sets of skills which may likely not synergize well with the existing ones.

Another problem is the concept of Medius. If such a relatively technologically advanced society exists alongside Kryta, Cantha, and Elona, and that they actually trade in Medius, it is rather illogical that elements of very strong culture of Medius not influence the other continents at all. Strong culture will always rub off on weaker cultures. Technology will always spread, one way or another. It just feels unlikely that a trade center where everyone visits is the only place that's advanced and everywhere else remains relatively stone-age.

What would make it better is that, NONE of the other continents actually know about this place, since their level of technology/magic does not yet allow them to traverse the long distance across the sea (which steam power can), so Medius had undergone a revolution and has finally started sending out emissaries to the world that they have always known to exist.

In the end, it's probably just me. I just don't really like the idea of mixing technology levels. Slightly different is fine, a big gap just doesn't sit well with me. When you start comparing arrow damage versus gunpowder damage... no guns? Well, if someone can design and build huge trains and ships, it's somewhat illogical to deny the possibility that someone would come up with small, easily concealed projectile weapons.... as a standalone, it can definitely be the basis of a game, but as part of GW? I'm not too sure.

But on your professions note, yeah, I think 10 professions is actually quite sufficient already. But the point about PvP gameplay is very valid. Perhaps if they slow down the addition of new professions instead.

I agree these themes have been explored now but they did miss large sections of the themes out such as the Norse(ok u could argue this is represented by the dwarfs), Greek and Zulus etc (although i havnt got far in factions so i dont know if the warlike area is like them) But i do agree Jungle and Arctic and perhaps small island settings will most probally be teh next campaigns (Jungle for south America(Tree towns and Aztec and Mayan style), small islands for Oceania/Australia(Island hoping and Samoa style etc.) and Iceland for Antartica, (Eskimos ftw need i say more) )

As for your Necris, i thinks is a really good idea that been well thought out (i especially like the idea of a rival to the Xunlia) but i also agree with some of the others the techology gap is too much, trains in particular but still it would make a good game but not a Guildwars game.

A pleasure to see you too, Kaiser. Right, let's get to it.

We could go with Corsairs, I suppose, but I have a different word for the tribes of sailing bandits in Alistos.

What does everyone think of 'The Ereptor Clans'? Ereptor is Latin for thief. Mind you, I advocate using the word 'Ereptor' as a general word for all the pirates that sail through the seas of Alistos. Not just one clan, but to encompass all of them. Obviously, some of the clans actually have their own names, like Bloody Swords or whatever (except not as cheesy). But, eventually, as the Venaliter rallies the pirates under his evil banner, they'll just come to be known as the Ereptor Clans.

There are diverse cultures in Alistos, the thing is that the ones among the main archipelago have succeeded to each other under one banner called 'The Medius'. Each of the cities are actually very different and at one point I toyed with the idea that these cities, depending on their geographical orientation on the Alistos map, would actually share a lot of cultural similarities with the other continents of the Guild Wars World. For example, one of the large city-states that are north east of the central nexus of Islands will have Ascalonian themes because some of the people who settled there were actually Searing Refugees. This is, however, just something I'm toying with so that Alistos looks diverse in culture.

Remember, while the European Union may be recognized as what we know as 'Europe' it is actually comprised of many, many, many different cultures.

Then again, so was the Roman Empire. There were many different cultures that lived under Roman rule, and that's why I've been using lots of Latin words to name some of the things in Alistos, because the theme here is more like a Roman thing which may have already been done to a degree with Ascalon, but not like this.

If I remember correctly, Arena.Net drew from Conan the Barbarian for Ascalonian themes, they also drew from Medieval European themes.

Hold on there, navigating our own ships?.. While I never thought of that, this does make me a little concerned. Doesn't this tread the fine line of having our own mounts? Group owned, yes, but they're kind of like mounts.

Wouldn't this also cause a lot of lag? Especially if you have hundreds of ships moving around at any given moment. Gotta remember these things, right?

This isn't to say that I do not love the idea. In fact, we could even take it a step farther and have naval battles with guild-owned ships. Boarding will be a problem because of the cannons, but I suppose this can be remedied by making the cannons about as accurate as the first cannons which were used on the first sailing ships (not very accurate). I think I'll devote another thread to just discussing this idea and its feasibility.

See above for my discussion on Europeans and Romans. Alistos has many different cultures, but the majority of them on the main inner islands have rallied under one banner: "The Medius".

Yes, I was thinking about you when I started treading into the bloody gun-territory. Don't break a sweat, friend.

I wasn't exactly going to start thinking about PVP quite yet, as I generally don't care about PVP other than the fact that it's something there for me to do when I'm not trying to find hidden stone tablets in the Guild Wars world to read. I like reading stuff. I sadly know that not all people are this way though, hence why there's a rather large PVP crowd to consider. I suppose you and I can talk about that later.

But, you did make me take a step in the direction for Guild Versus Guild stuff, see above regarding navies and naval battles. If you're going to take Naval battles into a further discussion, let me make a new thread and we can talk about it as a feature there.

You know mounts will never be available to anyone in the Guild Wars world except to NPC's which are there to be killed. I don't think we need mounts, especially with the teleport system that's being used. And, while there are a lot of identities which haven't been used, and arch-types... They already do exist. You're vampire? He's nothing more than a Blood Necromancer with some Mesmer skills. That Samurai? Find a Katana, get rid of that shield, and give it to your warrior with some assassin skills. There's your Samurai.

Ahh... Dragons. Mmm. As much as I would love, and I would LOVE to throw ideas about that around with you, sadly they don't have a spot here in this thread. I know you've talked about them before though and I'm sure you've brought them up here in Guru, somewhere.

Again, another thread will have to be made for us to talk about this. Alternatively, I'll need to throw you into my MSN or AIM list. We need to get together and brainstorm.

Yeah... That's the one problem I see with my idea. This new land, Alistos, really has no further appeal other than its lore, history, and story and some of the features that I'd like to see thrown in. Since there are no new professions, that leaves... What? Lots of new skills for the other Professions? They'll probably just be copies of things that have already been done. Something new will have to be made, inevitably, but I don't want to talk about new professions here. I'm concerned with the Lore, the politics, and the history of Alistos. And, of course, features!

So yeah, professions and the like will have to be made for this but I don't want to talk about those here. I'll save that for another thread.

See above.

I know, I know. Don't get your nads in a knot. See above.

Please, I once imagined a Venice that was at least three times the size of what you're talking about.

Eh, any idea will have flaws. I'll try and address them. Thank you though, I did work quite hard at trying to come up with something complete.

This is a difficult thing to address, and I don't exactly know how to explain that in this world where technology has been developed quite a bit, ranged firearms do not exist. So, it is here that I concede to not being able to think it out in full.

Yeah, I don't want that to happen. It wouldn't bode well for class balance and the like, but I wasn't and still am not concerned with how the classes will work, and I've only gone so far as to talk about a few of the gameplay features. I'm more interested in throwing out the idea that we don't have to argue about new classes or how skills should be tweaked. Instead, let's use our creative genius to try and make a new land for the next chapter.

Cantha had gunpowder. Like the Chinese, they were using it for fireworks (remember the dragon festival anyone?).

Ahh, I like that. Something more can be made with that, and I'd like to see you develop it further.

The Wharfships were not designed, they just kind of... came together. Someone came up with the idea that a huge ship could be made to help commerce, yes, but no one person actually designed them. The Medius do, however, build foundries outside of the city boundaries where they smash parts and pieces of junk together to make the massive wharships. As for the trains, they aren't trains like we think of them. Yes, steam powered, but they look more like big buildings that can slide along a track than an actual vehicle. Ugly but very functional.

I kind of addressed this when BahamutKaiser talked about it. I agree though.

I'd like to see some sequals to the previous chapters, like a time rift is opened and you get to see Ascalon once more, but restored to its old and beautiful self.

And some thing simialr would happen to Cantha, maybe a prodigy of Shiro has absorbed his spirit or some thing and we have to take him down. This would be pretty interesting to see.

Can we relax for a minute and enjoy the new campaign/game?! THE NEW GAME JUST CAME OUT!!! Good God no need to talk about the next one when 90% of the GW population has yet to explore Elona and master their professions.

It will take place in a Northern climate I will tell you that when you where in consulate office did you see the map as there were 4 or 5 continents.The 4th one was North of Tyria and a another one if it looked that way east N/E of Elona.i would say after Chpter 4 and maybe 5 GW2 will coming out.

Icy climate. Perhaps they'll start to expand the story of the other races (ie dwarves)?