After hearing a number of my friends complain endlessly about the unavailability of insignias, (I'm not far enough in NF to care yet.) and personally noticing a great number of runes being out of stock the other day, I realized something that I hope ANet will realize, too...
Heroes require these upgrades, which we have to provide for them, yet they still steal their share of dropped loot.
Now, I'm not really calling out for heroes that don't take loot, but what this means is that, in effect, the upgrade item userbase has just been multiplied by a factor of nearly twelve (due to each human player having around a dozen heroes), while the number of upgrade items dropped remains the same (or is even reduced, as more people play with heroes instead of living friends).
This can't do anything good for availability and pricing.
Runes, Insignias, Heroes, and Math
Rhedd
Espes
Exaktly! Good point!
electrofish
I still think hero lvls and equipments should be account based but the unlocking of them is separate.
Amity and Truth
I don't see the problem here.
Supply is allright. Every rune also brings an insignia with it, be it small, major or superior. That is almost an oversupply on insignias with all those purple and blue runes dropping. It's currently soaked up though because the demand allways spikes around a new chapter.
Supply is allright. Every rune also brings an insignia with it, be it small, major or superior. That is almost an oversupply on insignias with all those purple and blue runes dropping. It's currently soaked up though because the demand allways spikes around a new chapter.
thelessa
Btw... I have had plenty of runes drop with no insignia with it, all of the runes I have gotten lately have been from Nightfall.
Edit:
Also not all runes will salvage out the insignia and rune out of it, sometimes it will be one or the other. So you have to choose which one you want the most.
Edit:
Also not all runes will salvage out the insignia and rune out of it, sometimes it will be one or the other. So you have to choose which one you want the most.
God Apprentice
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Originally Posted by Amity and Truth
I don't see the problem here.
Supply is allright. Every rune also brings an insignia with it, be it small, major or superior. That is almost an oversupply on insignias with all those purple and blue runes dropping. It's currently soaked up though because the demand allways spikes around a new chapter. |
jiggerjay
all my heros have got sup vigor, i had like 13 free from ettin farming.
greyf0x_f0x
The fact that supply will eventually improve is true, however, the original poster makes a good point. If you want your party performing at optimum performance with heroes, you WILL have to pay for at least 3 extra weapon sets and rune/insignia sets. Sure they may be cheap, but that's still a lot more gold per character that you need to spend.
Perhaps you could have "Hero Equipment" points, similar to the hero skill concept. Earned through quests, challanges etc.
Personally, I consider myself reasonably well off in GW, but the thought of equiping 10 heroes across 10 PvE characters, strikes me as a very expensive undertaking.
Perhaps you could have "Hero Equipment" points, similar to the hero skill concept. Earned through quests, challanges etc.
Personally, I consider myself reasonably well off in GW, but the thought of equiping 10 heroes across 10 PvE characters, strikes me as a very expensive undertaking.
ischuros
s ay if you have eight or nine chars, bought all chapters and the pre-release pack, and you get around 10 heroes for each, now you'll have to equip around 100, just under actually, characters in game. i'd like to see hero equipmetn, as suggested by a previous poster or heros being account based, but you still have to unlock them.
KamikazeChicken
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Originally Posted by Amity and Truth
Every rune also brings an insignia with it, be it small, major or superior.
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XvArchonvX
The fact that Heroes require runes is a bit annoying, but since you can always salvage the rune back from a Hero with 100% chance to get it back without losing anything, I don't really mind. As for Insignias, my biggest beef is the lack of storage space to hold the ones you collect, but other than that I like the system.
GloryFox
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Originally Posted by Amity and Truth Every rune also brings an insignia with it, be it small, major or superior. |
Can you beat the game without them? Yes I proved that..
Do you need them then? No, but armor is still essential for the game. Those little bonuses go a long ways to make the game easier.
Avarre
Exactly. To make the game easier. They aren't needed, so they aren't going to be spoonfed.
As you can already beat the game without them, you have plenty of time and availability to spec out all your heroes and pve-self in flawless gear.
As you can already beat the game without them, you have plenty of time and availability to spec out all your heroes and pve-self in flawless gear.
Hockster
Hench never had insignias, runes, nor inscriptions, and we did two chapters with them. If you suck because your heroes don't have runes or insignias, that's not the real reason you suck.
Dahl
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Exactly. To make the game easier. They aren't needed, so they aren't going to be spoonfed.
As you can already beat the game without them, you have plenty of time and availability to spec out all your heroes and pve-self in flawless gear. |
But the fact that we now have to buy mods for our armor is a little stupid. Why should those who had prophecies and factions get the armor with the mods already on them and not the nightfall players?
They were "spoonfed" in proph and factions.
Spader
If people use the vendor instead of trying to save/make a few gold the market might come down quicker. This means accepting the 300g for a sup rune that the merchent will be out of quickly.
Before i'm called out for madness or being one of the people selling them for 1 plat. The people selling them off venders are only doing it because they know they'll sell, ignore em and they'll either come down or sell it to the vender.
Before i'm called out for madness or being one of the people selling them for 1 plat. The people selling them off venders are only doing it because they know they'll sell, ignore em and they'll either come down or sell it to the vender.
Prospero
The vendors are all messed up right now anyway b/c this stuff is in such high demand. If they bought them for market value, think of how much gold would flood the economy? So, the vendors buy them on the cheap, but 'run out of stock' so it doesn't totally ruin the economy.
phoenixtech
Here's the REAL MATH for you.
Assuming you have 10 chars with all heros unlocked. That's 140 Heros, while this seems like alot, once you are done equipping them you are pretty much set aside from the occasional moving runes around (which you have a 100% change of removing the rune and 50%+ chance of keeping both rune + insignia).
Now, throughout the course of the game, most people will only get the first few heros (which co-incides with the demand for the runes), you first get 2x monks, koss, jin/sousuke, olias, zenmei, melanni. Notice how the monk runes, war runes, sup death + soul reap, derv runes, and crit+dagger runes are all either sold out or in limited supply? Once people finish equipping them the market will be back to normal and you can buy whatever you want.
Anyways, to summarize for those of you too lazy to read, give it time. The demand is FIXED, you only need 1 set for your heros and it's DONE. The supply of runes is unlimited and keeps coming even after everyone's heros are equipped.
Also, I LOVE how heros are char specific, yes it's a pain to acquire them all and level them all up, but
1) they serve as GREAT additional storage.
2) Think about in terms of making PVEers happy, yes it seems like a grind but it does make this game more interesting and last longer to equip all of your heros individually. Give you something to do if you are bored with quests/missions.
3) Complaining about rune vendor's right now is like complaining about material vendors when factions first released. Exact same thing, it'll work out given time for the supply to saturate the demand.
Assuming you have 10 chars with all heros unlocked. That's 140 Heros, while this seems like alot, once you are done equipping them you are pretty much set aside from the occasional moving runes around (which you have a 100% change of removing the rune and 50%+ chance of keeping both rune + insignia).
Now, throughout the course of the game, most people will only get the first few heros (which co-incides with the demand for the runes), you first get 2x monks, koss, jin/sousuke, olias, zenmei, melanni. Notice how the monk runes, war runes, sup death + soul reap, derv runes, and crit+dagger runes are all either sold out or in limited supply? Once people finish equipping them the market will be back to normal and you can buy whatever you want.
Anyways, to summarize for those of you too lazy to read, give it time. The demand is FIXED, you only need 1 set for your heros and it's DONE. The supply of runes is unlimited and keeps coming even after everyone's heros are equipped.
Also, I LOVE how heros are char specific, yes it's a pain to acquire them all and level them all up, but
1) they serve as GREAT additional storage.
2) Think about in terms of making PVEers happy, yes it seems like a grind but it does make this game more interesting and last longer to equip all of your heros individually. Give you something to do if you are bored with quests/missions.
3) Complaining about rune vendor's right now is like complaining about material vendors when factions first released. Exact same thing, it'll work out given time for the supply to saturate the demand.
Cherno
Just how do they serve as GREAT additional storage?
Your heroes share your inventoy. The best you can hope to save in storage is 2 items per hero because they can equip a weapon and offhand or 1 2 handed item that doesn't show up in your inventory.
Since I will likely be playing through one character at a time, and I have 14(?) completed characters, I am just going to have to switch weapons from the heroes I have with the NF completed character over to the one I am currently playing. This is a bit tedious if I want to help the guild out on a different character and bring the weaponless hero with me.
Your heroes share your inventoy. The best you can hope to save in storage is 2 items per hero because they can equip a weapon and offhand or 1 2 handed item that doesn't show up in your inventory.
Since I will likely be playing through one character at a time, and I have 14(?) completed characters, I am just going to have to switch weapons from the heroes I have with the NF completed character over to the one I am currently playing. This is a bit tedious if I want to help the guild out on a different character and bring the weaponless hero with me.
Malice Black
One word posts = spam, spamming = ban, too many small bans = one very long ban 
Beliveve me, been there done that and had the t-shirt and sweatshirt.
Beliveve me, been there done that and had the t-shirt and sweatshirt.
lakatz
Rhedd (or anyone)...
How do you know the heroes steal loot? Did you count the loot you got on a solo run vs. the loot you got on a run w/ heroes in the exact same location and notice a difference ratio of 1:4? Or did the dev team say the heroes steal loot? Or what? I'm looking for some definitive/conclusive information on the subject.
Thanks!
How do you know the heroes steal loot? Did you count the loot you got on a solo run vs. the loot you got on a run w/ heroes in the exact same location and notice a difference ratio of 1:4? Or did the dev team say the heroes steal loot? Or what? I'm looking for some definitive/conclusive information on the subject.
Thanks!
Knightsaber Sith
^Heroes/hench take the same amount as loot as if they were real players
Heroes do not require anything. Not one of my heroes on any of my characters has even one rune or insignia. And they're all upto at least the Realm of Torment. Just equip them with junk weapons that drop.
Edit*
just noticed someone used their necromancy........
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rhedd
After hearing a number of my friends complain endlessly about the unavailability of insignias, (I'm not far enough in NF to care yet.) and personally noticing a great number of runes being out of stock the other day, I realized something that I hope ANet will realize, too...
Heroes require these upgrades, which we have to provide for them, yet they still steal their share of dropped loot. |
Edit*
just noticed someone used their necromancy........
Feminist Terrorist
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Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith
Edit* just noticed someone used their necromancy........ |
Rakeman
Heroes should get to use the equipment panel that PvP only characters have access to. Since they get drops, this would symbolize them "spending" their loot on equipment.
Hyper Cutter
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Originally Posted by Rakeman
Heroes should get to use the equipment panel that PvP only characters have access to. Since they get drops, this would symbolize them "spending" their loot on equipment.
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erkun
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rakeman
Heroes should get to use the equipment panel that PvP only characters have access to. Since they get drops, this would symbolize them "spending" their loot on equipment.
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They take their part of the loot and it only makes sense that they should also be spending as well not just the PC.
Braggi
To the OP:
well, so what? I can go for a reasonably priced equip and pay ~2k per hero, runes and insignias both. Ok, so I dont use 1 sup rune but 2 mayor if that is way more economic. Or a 100g major instead of a 1k minor. No vigor rune, but a vitae. I start with 'economicly sensible' inscriptions and can substitute them later. I go for a collector's max weapon instead of a forged one (another 125g to 150g) or the random drop I would else just merch.
But the hero is very well serviceable, so we talk about an investment of ~20k per character that completely plays NF. You get that much from the free treasure chests and hidden treasures alone.
No, you save 1/3 of the gold price in NF, how is that a disadvantage?
Most people skipped the intermediate armor anyway. Salvaging them brought only a few basic materials, so salvage insignia and you have to buy insignia only once. Now armor is actually cheaper, unless you want a few versions very much in demand (stonefist, radiant...).
Every party member that gets looting rights has a chance on loot; this was confirmed for henchmen, and heros don't feel different. Try yourself - usually every mob drops something. Calculate items=mobs-(unasigned drops) [i.e. gold]. Then (your drops)/items should aim for 1/groupsize, for heros as well as hench.
well, so what? I can go for a reasonably priced equip and pay ~2k per hero, runes and insignias both. Ok, so I dont use 1 sup rune but 2 mayor if that is way more economic. Or a 100g major instead of a 1k minor. No vigor rune, but a vitae. I start with 'economicly sensible' inscriptions and can substitute them later. I go for a collector's max weapon instead of a forged one (another 125g to 150g) or the random drop I would else just merch.
But the hero is very well serviceable, so we talk about an investment of ~20k per character that completely plays NF. You get that much from the free treasure chests and hidden treasures alone.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dahl
But the fact that we now have to buy mods for our armor is a little stupid. Why should those who had prophecies and factions get the armor with the mods already on them and not the nightfall players?
They were "spoonfed" in proph and factions. |
Most people skipped the intermediate armor anyway. Salvaging them brought only a few basic materials, so salvage insignia and you have to buy insignia only once. Now armor is actually cheaper, unless you want a few versions very much in demand (stonefist, radiant...).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lakatz
How do you know the heroes steal loot? Did you count the loot you got on a solo run vs. the loot you got on a run w/ heroes in the exact same location and notice a difference ratio of 1:4? Or did the dev team say the heroes steal loot? Or what? I'm looking for some definitive/conclusive information on the subject.
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Guildmaster Cain
Lol, this was very predictable to happen, thus I bought 100 runes of minor vigor for 200gish before heroes were implemented. I happily sold them back for 1800g.
I dont have any problems with heroes, although I use them often, I rarely upgrade their equipment above that what was given to them at the start, Koss being one of the exceptions. Its mostly the build you give them and how the AI can use those skills, which makes them 10x better then the conventional PUG.
I dont have any problems with heroes, although I use them often, I rarely upgrade their equipment above that what was given to them at the start, Koss being one of the exceptions. Its mostly the build you give them and how the AI can use those skills, which makes them 10x better then the conventional PUG.
FlameoutAlchemist
Before I bought NF, I was already holding a large selection of collector drops in trust for my guild. Whatever they didn't need, I used to trade for the various weapons and equipment that they needed to be in top shape. Same with runes. By the time I was done with that, I maybe had to spend 1k-1.5k for insignias and such to top it all off. End result was that I could ahve three heroes travelling with me that were better off than henchmen and most of the other heroes out there. It also helped that I have a PvE toon of each class, so their skills weren't lacking either.
However, I agree with what was posted earlier - I believe that Heroes should have access to the PvP equipment panel. I'm not sure that it's really all that fair to those of us with more than the standard amount of PvE toons to have to do what I did, especially considering that I have 10 toons. In the end I saved myself a lot of gold, but it was still expensive, especailly when I ran out of certain items.
However, I agree with what was posted earlier - I believe that Heroes should have access to the PvP equipment panel. I'm not sure that it's really all that fair to those of us with more than the standard amount of PvE toons to have to do what I did, especially considering that I have 10 toons. In the end I saved myself a lot of gold, but it was still expensive, especailly when I ran out of certain items.
Alleji
Um... thanks for posting what most people realized a week after NF came out. Really informative.
There's nothing wrong with supply of runes/insignias. Anything other than major vigor, sup death, sup fire, bloodstained and stonefist insignias is under 3k. Most is under 500g. Where's this "supply" problem?
There's nothing wrong with supply of runes/insignias. Anything other than major vigor, sup death, sup fire, bloodstained and stonefist insignias is under 3k. Most is under 500g. Where's this "supply" problem?
HawkofStorms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alleji
Um... thanks for posting what most people realized a week after NF came out. Really informative.
There's nothing wrong with supply of runes/insignias. Anything other than major vigor, sup death, sup fire, bloodstained and stonefist insignias is under 3k. Most is under 500g. Where's this "supply" problem? |
Boo thread necromancy.