Tombs - B/P Groups

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

26 Feb 2007 at 20:53 - 41

I agree with both Pelmen and Edge on the orders necro.
When running Tombs with the guild, I usually play orders.
Just a regular 180 HP build with mending and blood renewal.
Just stay away from the strippers (almost always possible).

Our usual monk runs H-boon, so he can always use the extra energy.
With a decent team and mm running, it's possible to keep the monk high on energy and keep one order up all the time.
Only when the fight needs it.

I still have difficulties with some monks though.
Spamming Heal Party is easy, but it's an energy drain and not a constant need.
I have had monks casting HP when only a single member took minimal damage.
And soo close to the enemies that I had to risk my life to give him/her BR. If you really want to spam HP, please take a Mo/E and glyph of lesser energy.
Or stay back near the orders (HP has a large reach), so he can keep BR on the monk.

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

02 Mar 2007 at 09:26 - 42

I have Orders Necro but really only has 3 Necro skills

1. OotV
2. OoP
3. Blood Ritual (Mainly I use this on the Monk but I also chuck it on a freshly Rebirthed teammate)
4. Watchful Spirit (On me)
5. Mending (On me)
6. Healing Breeze (still iffy with this but I use on a freshly Rebirthed teammate)
7. Succor (On the Monk at all times)
8. Rebirth

16 Blood
9 SR
11 Healing Prayers
Rest into Protection Prayers

Now I know this is pretty different but in all the groups I've been in, I almost never run out of mana (only problems is when we're just starting and the minions aren't up yet) nor do I ever have health problems (since I have a constant +5 regen on me as well as the occasional +7 from Healing Breeze).

Calen The Civl

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

02 Mar 2007 at 18:03 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Could ritualists be of any use in tombs btw? They have quite ok crowd nukes and weapon spells cant get removed by fingers of chaos. Splinter Barrage Ritualists are powerful in tombs. Echo Splinter Weapon also greatly increases damage for the b/p rangers. Ever see a 4 player splinter barrage spike to a mob? Its quite funny when the mob goes down in 1 volley.

I tend not to run any spirits except for maybe Life because b/p groups are extremely mobile.

Pity most B/p groups are racist to ritualists

Keithark

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Be Aggressive B E Aggressive [AGRO]

E/Me

02 Mar 2007 at 18:21 - 44

shadowsong would be good I think if you want to take a spirit...you are pulling groups anyway so just plant the spirit near where you pull to and helps keep them blind

DeanBB

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Arizona

Wizardry Players Guild, http://4guildwars.7.forumer.com

02 Mar 2007 at 21:17 - 45

With a guild team we'll take a Rit in place of the Orders necro, seems to work just as well.

Legandary Spartan

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2007

Friends of God

W/Mo

04 Mar 2007 at 07:26 - 46

I did it from half way thru level 2 with out a monk
The party was:
3 bp rangers
mm
orders
A/R
and a tank

i have seen Mesmer/monks do it and paragon/rangers. Builds are not exactly like wiki or guru says. Please keep this in mind when making party's.

Dirty Savage

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

Saskatchewan

06 Mar 2007 at 12:30 - 47

I gotta say that I love playing tombs. Not only is it a fun way to kill an hour or so but it is also quite lucrative as on average I'm making 2-3k per run. Not too shabby.

When I first got my ranger there I was in heaven! So many people spamming for rangers. For a while I went along with a cookie-cutter build but then I thought, gee, what would happen if I brought Broad Head Arrow instead? Didn't seem detrimental at all, in fact a well placed BHA completely shut down those rotten Dryders and horsemen. So that was fun.

Then I noticed an even greater need for necros (monks of course too but I don't have one). I had a necro all the way over in Elona and it took me a couple of hours to run her over there, stopping along the way to do every quest/mission of course (free skills FTW!).

So now I play a necro in tombs and it's a lot of fun and I don't have any problems getting in to groups. My MM build is this:

Death - 16
SR - 13

Animate Flesh Golem
Animate Shambling Horror
Animate Vampiric Horror
Blood of the master
Death nova - for the pets
Soul Feast - for emergencies
Signet of Lost souls
Rebirth

Yeah, pretty standard stuff

My orders build is this pretty much:

Blood - 16
SR - 12
Healing - 6 (I think)

Blood Renewal
Blood is Power
Order of Pain
Healing Breeze - for myself
Vampiric Gaze
Signet of Lost Souls
Rebirth

Still messing around with another skill for slot 8. Sometimes I get shit for not bringing Order of the Vampire but, jeez, if your monk is ANY GOOD you don't need it in my opinion. BiP is much more effective when I spam it on the monk and I have more than enough self healing to take pressure of the monk so he/she can focus on everyone else. Hey man, it works.

IGN - Rosy Rottencrotch (I'm sure I've played with a lot of you)

malko050987

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Arad, Romania

The Arctic Marauders [TAM] - now recruiting!

07 Mar 2007 at 10:59 - 48

I recently came across the Tombs, went on a few runs as a b/p using the wiki recommended build, with:

Barrage
Savage Shot
Distracting Shot
Winnowing
Favorable Winds
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Res Signet

Well, not exactly the wiki build, because I didn't take Troll. I tried going with Winter once, because I don't have drakescale armor, and fire damage from Rodgorts is bad when you only have a monk who can't focus on hex removal. Didn't get to go, because the party didn't like winter. :/

Another idea would be to make two/three of the 5 rangers trappers. First two rangers use FW and WW while the others go trap. Crippled enemies are dead enemies. Once the first volley of traps go off, barrage should works as usual.

Has anybody thought of bringing Predatory season in there? With Barrage and a Vampiric bowstring, the healing reduction shouldn't be important.

EDIT: Oh, for those who want degen on the wurms. If FW and WW are taken care of by the others, you can stack on BM and take Feral Lunge. This won't keep you from using barrage.

Chris

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

08 Mar 2007 at 08:21 - 49

Did any of you ever try to clear tombs with a balanced group? I think it's possible to do it quite fast, I tested with a guildie and 6 heroes yesterday. We actually got to the 3rd level, but we were tired as hell so we played very sloppy, therefore we died. It still involves 2 rangers but the total setup was like:

2 warriors
2 rangers
2 monks (heal)
1 minion master
1 mesmer

We really did quite well, we actually had to work for our kills. Winter is actually very good in tombs, especially paired with greater conflagration and armor inscriptions against cold/ele damage (monk with 70 armor? yes please).

malko050987

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Arad, Romania

The Arctic Marauders [TAM] - now recruiting!

08 Mar 2007 at 08:38 - 50

What skills did the rangers have? This might be an interesting thing to try out. A possible weakness I can see are the warriors, but with two monks keeping them alive, they should be fine.

Chris

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

08 Mar 2007 at 08:51 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

What skills did the rangers have? This might be an interesting thing to try out. A possible weakness I can see are the warriors, but with two monks keeping them alive, they should be fine.

Chris I'm still developing it, but it was something around this, ill post all the ins and outs once we make it to the end in a time that's still funny, but I have quite good faith.

Me:
Barrage {E}
Distracting shot
Savage shot
Pin down
Throw dirt
Favorable winds
Apply poison
Rebirth

Magrid:
Greater conflagration {E}
Distracting shot
Savage shot
Pin down
Go for the eyes!
Winter
Whirling defense
signet of return

Both have armor inscriptions against cold2 damage, how can you not love inscribable armor

But i'm still thinking to cram some rit. spirits in there to take some strain of the warriors, like displacement or something... But I can't stash these on the rangers. Apply poison seems funny but its for the wurms and the dryders that guard the narrow passage in level 2, if you try to run to them with the warriors u get insta-mauled, so thats a place where 1 ranger kills the dryders 1 by 1.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

09 Mar 2007 at 11:02 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

What skills did the rangers have? This might be an interesting thing to try out. A possible weakness I can see are the warriors, but with two monks keeping them alive, they should be fine.

Chris Edit:
Made it to the end yesterday, but the warriors are indeed a problem, they get pounded quite hard by the grasps. I gave them a shield with +10 armor vs. cold and they had ele damage inscriptions, but it does't really add something because using greatr conflagration bypasses the natural +20 vs. physical of the warrior's armor. Barrage pet templates are still faster but that can change once we practice more. It was definitely lots of fun and it got us greens and ectos

.

Next time I will add a curses necro with enfeebling blood to get strain of the warriors.
In that case the exact team setup would look like this:

Warrior 1 (My guildmate)
Triple chop {E}
Executioners strike
Dismember
Agonizing chop
Flail
Tiger stance
Watch yourself
Rebirth

Warrior 2 (Koss)
Triple chop {E}
Executioners strike
Dismember
Agonizing chop
Flail
Tiger stance
Watch yourself
Rebirth

Both warriors have the +10 vs ele damage mod and a shield with +10 vs cold damage.
Note that any axe build could do perfectly fine, only triple chop helps with the large mobs

Necromancer/mesmer (Olias)
Blood of the Master
Signet of lost souls
Blood ritual
Animate bone minions
Icy veins {E}
Mantra of frost
Power drain
Res signet

Necromancer/mesmer (Master of Whispers)
Enfeebling blood
Signet of lost souls
Spiteful Spirit {E}
Insidious parasite
Blood ritual
Mantra of Frost
reckless haste
Res signet

Both necromancers have tormentor insignias and ideal would be focus inscriptions against cold damage

Monk/mesmer (Dunkoro)
Dwaynas kiss
Words of Comfort
Mend condition
Holy veil
Inspired hex
Light of Deliverance {E}
Mantra of frost
Rebirth

Monk/mesmer (Tahlkora)
Dwaynas kiss
Words of Comfort
Mend condition
Holy veil
Inspired hex
Restore condition {E}
Mantra of frost
Rebirth

Both monks have wanderers insignias

Ranger/mesmer (Magrid)
Greater Conflagration {E}
Winter
Savage Shot
Distracting shot
Pin Down
Throw Dirt
Mantra of frost
Res signet

Ranger/monk (me)
Barrage {E}
Favorable winds
Savage Shot
Distracting shot
Pin Down
Throw Dirt
Winter
Rebirth

Both rangers have frostbound insignias

I'm still struggling with the warriors, this works, but I need to itigate a little bit more damage. Maybe something like bonettis defense or defy pain will do the trick to toughen them up a bit. Testing this weekend (still need victo's maul anyways, so wth).

Sofonisba

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Tucson, AZ

The Black Hand Gang [BHG] and The Black Helm Gang [BHeG]

09 Mar 2007 at 16:58 - 53

Very interesting ^^

Just a silly little detail: Does Barbs do any good, when no damage is physical?
Maybe throw a Shatter or Inspired Hex in there instead?

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

09 Mar 2007 at 22:34 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofonisba

Very interesting ^^

Just a silly little detail: Does Barbs do any good, when no damage is physical?
Maybe throw a Shatter or Inspired Hex in there instead? Good point, barbs is going to suck eggs in this build. some extra hex remove never hurts and shatter hex is nice AoE damage.

L|S >+>+G+<+<

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

10 Mar 2007 at 00:05 - 55

Well I can't monk to save my life :P well actually I can as I usually only get him out when I'm 55'ing something.

Anyway, my hats off to the guys that play orders, I found that really boring & would not want to do it again in a hurry but this is one character I wonder if could be changed.

Imo the BIP guy above somewhere was a good build.
If the monk is good & the rangers all remember to use troll then there shouldn't be a problem with the Orders nec going BIP instead.

I usually go to tombs as a b/p or an mm. Either of which I'm very happy using & find easy to work.
However I have been experimenting a little with my ranger recently.

Usually I take this....R/Mo

Barrage - Usually I hit for about 35 - 50 with my dragos & 12 marksmanship
[Trap]
WW or FW depending
Throw Dirt
Troll
Comfort Pet
Charm Animal
Rebirth

So as I said I tried experimenting with a R/E

I took this

Conjure Frost - Extra 12 damage when using an icy weapon
Barrage - whacked this up to 15 marksmanship instead of 12
Throw Dirt
[Trap]
WW or FW Depending
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Res Sig

With this build my hp was an almighty 405 :P but hey if you're worth your salt as a ranger you'll be fine with as low as 350 in there - idk if that possible btw.

Anyway, the damage I got was actually quite good in comparison.

Although I still hit 35's a lot due to the mechanics of the game etc, I also started getting 53's 65's & 67's which was quite a lot better considering also that i was getting the +12 from conjure frost too.

So with a decent shot, i hit for about 74 damage

+ the pet

I saw someone mention that winter works well in there somaybe frost is the way to go but I'm sure I'll try Conjure flame too sometime soon.

Overall I would say yes, the typical cutter build works just fine but you can play and tweak it somewhat & improve it still.

I think a few times last week, the teams I was in actually did the tombs run in about 45 - 50 mins.
Not saying that was down to me but you can see what a difference having a good team & good damage makes to it.

Anyways, have fun guys, remember your druids armour :P & gl with Victos Axe - the only worthwhile green still down there :P

G

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

10 Mar 2007 at 02:48 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by L|S >+>+G+<+<

Anyways, have fun guys, remember your druids armour :P & gl with Victos Axe - the only worthwhile green still down there :P

G But victo's maul is just...sexy

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

17 Mar 2007 at 22:22 - 57

I always lay down Barbed trap near the casters, so if the foes break the line and get to the casters, the foes will get crippled and casters won't get raped... Dust trap also worls very well.

eggs0wn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

17 Mar 2007 at 23:45 - 58

I always use

16 Marks
9 Expertise
10 WS

Barrage {e}
Distracting Shot
Savage Shot
Favorable Winds
Trolls Ungent
Comfort Pet
Charm Pet
Rebirth

I always insist on bringing FW. Although, sometimes I will take out FW and one interupt for two traps.

Oh, I think I should have lower WS but it has gotten me through countless times so I just leave it.

trekkie dude

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

W/Mo

20 Mar 2007 at 01:31 - 59

i've been doing quite well over there for the last few days. lost once because monk got disconnected. althought i havn't been getting a lot of green items :/ p.S what can i use the ecto for?

Yobz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

N/Me

20 Mar 2007 at 03:38 - 60

Variations to consider-
Ranger / Rit with splinter weapon (as previously posted)
Ranger / Paragon with go for the eyes (anthem of flmae does not last long enough as it is linked to paragon primary attribute)
Paragon/Ranger using barrage + anthem of flame(as previously mentioned)
Explosive creation Ritualist MM (enchants can be problematic)
Anyone using barbs (although only really good for a single target)
Necro using rotting flesh for things like wurms
Dropping orders necro for SS or another nuker.
Drop orders necro and take Ritualist

Various Tips:
- About Paragon Anthem of Flame. This works on the next attack SKILL. Therefore minions are not affected.
- Necros with Nightfall should make use of the skill Signet of Lost Souls. This provides good energy management and a bit of healing.
- Any Splinter barragers should pre-cast splinter on as many people as possible before the initial attack. Do this while the puller is doing his job.

Sofonisba

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Tucson, AZ

The Black Hand Gang [BHG] and The Black Helm Gang [BHeG]

20 Mar 2007 at 16:24 - 61

I may get flamed here... but I never bring Troll Unguent as a ranger. It's ok on the puller maybe, but no one else really needs it. All damage is spike damage (except for burning which is minimal), so Troll is not going to counter that very well imho. When I'm monking I do not expect everyone's Troll to help me out, I expect heavy, quick damage and plan accordingly.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

22 Mar 2007 at 06:59 - 62

raoule

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2007

COPY

22 Mar 2007 at 08:47 - 63

Good Job.

Despite the facts that Splinter is of no use with non-adjacent foes, that Spirit
Syphon will quickly be of no use for the other rits because a single use get the
spirit energy down to 0, and that Spirit rift requiere your target to not move for
3 seconds, players should now get confident that there are alternative ways to
play this mission.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

22 Mar 2007 at 09:11 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by raoule

Good Job.
Despite the facts that Splinter is of no use with non-adjacent foes

Were talking tomb of primeval kings here, finding adjacent targets shouldnt be too much of a problem.
Quote: Originally Posted by raoule that Spirit Syphon will quickly be of no use for the other rits because a single use get the
spirit energy down to 0 I was the only one on the team, I used spirit siphon twice in the entire run anyway, but you are right
about that, too bad most energy management spells for rit are elite. Theres always a friendly orders necro if my energy runs low anyway, but i only needed BR once. Rit. spells are always dirt cheap

Quote:

Originally Posted by raoule

and that Spirit rift requiere your target to not move for
3 seconds Good minion blocking very much FTW, besides, chaos wurms are stationary.

Believe me, this works. I treated every player with splinter when we went to charge the darknesses. The entire team was completely flabberghasted because they were all dead in < 10 seconds. The damage output is so sick that if you apply splinter on the entire team we could just pull all creatures in the room and still own them really hard.

raoule

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2007

COPY

22 Mar 2007 at 09:25 - 65

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

22 Mar 2007 at 10:29 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by raoule

I may listen if you can keep killing darknesses in less than 10 seconds
when they are not stationary and when they are not adjacents.
For now I prefer to have that same killing rate no matter what the battle context is.

The other thing now: I wanted to point out what you yourself agreed was
some drawbacks, while in the same time congratulate you for your inventivity.

Feel better now ? I never felt bad in the first place, forums are made for discussion, so I'm not going to freak when someone argues with me, especially not on Guru, since there's always one here that argues

. And energy if indeed a drawback about the build, but that's only going to punish the mindless spammer. Armor level kinda sucks, since I'm always puller when we do tombs with our guild (ok, get another puller, duh). The pet can become a liability too if it gets killed too much, since waking it up costs 10e and rits dont get expertise discount. That can easily be countered though by applying splinter on party members before the battle starts. You are right about the killing rate too, ranger b/p are better in pumping out continuous damage while the rit version is more spikey. In a good team however you can speed up things quite radically.
About inventivity, the base idea was from another player I happened to invite in my team, so I'm not going to take full credit, I just tweaked the build a bit to suit my personal taste.

PS. Don't think this rit. can replace every ranger in a team, because you will still need throw dirt, which is expertise. Without at least 1 or 2 copies of throw dirt things can look bad quite fast.

raoule

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2007

COPY

22 Mar 2007 at 12:57 - 67

Good. You finally included some details about your build for the ones who could have not been aware of the drawbacks. It is a good attitude.

Concerning the PS: I was personally already convinced from the begining that it couldnt.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

23 Mar 2007 at 09:07 - 68

Kind of a fun thing about this is that all of a sudden I see more ritualists in tombs. People seem to catch on, which is a good thing. I bet in a week or so you can easily take your rit. to tombs and own some.
Funny, yesterday I was in a team with a r/p with gfte, having damage buffs from gfte, orders AND splinter weapon is barrage/pet on steroids really.

raoule

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2007

COPY

23 Mar 2007 at 11:23 - 69

It's good that some players finally wake up.
The things you mention have already been in place at Urgoz for several months now.

malko050987

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Arad, Romania

The Arctic Marauders [TAM] - now recruiting!

05 Apr 2007 at 13:14 - 70