Okay, let's take a look at a few of these insignia... and this is only the ones that are actually available, mind you, never mind all those that are constantly out of stock.
Minion Master's Insignia, 1100 gold each. Sentinel's Insignia, 1700 gold each. Radiant Insignia... 3200 gold each.
3200 gold. That's more than the armor it will be applied to. A single piece of max Elonian armor with one of these insignia will cost anywhere from 2100 to 4200 gold per piece.
On the other hand, I can go to Cantha and get any of these armors, including "Radiant" armor, for 1500 per piece, not counting materials.
Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this picture?
Radiant Insignia are turning into the Superior Vigor of Insignia... but they're much, much more critical to the game and the function of a character than are Superior Vigors.
More and more I'm finding myself convinced that Insignia were a bad idea. I think it is highly disturbing how the basic equipment needed to play the game -- I do not mean rare weapon skins or perfect mods, but a simple things like max AL armor -- have steadily increased in price with each chapter, making it harder and harder on the new and casual player. Insignia are a huge step forward (or perhaps I should say backward) in this trend.
Insignia should not, repeat not, under any circumstances, be a dynamically priced commodity. They need to be frozen at 500 gold apiece, regardless of attribute, in order to make a fair comparison with earlier chapters' armors.
And while you're at it, make an Insignia Crafter, separate from the Rune Trader.
Insignia Prices Must Be Frozen
Sable Phoenix
Horuku
They should just make the armor insignia's available for buying at the armor merchants, otherwise I will NEVER have good armor for my paragon...
Sid Soggybottom
It's only been the first week and so of course these insignias are going to be rare and more expensive. Why are you freaking out and jumping to conclusions so early in the game?
The prices will drop on the insignias. Stop worrying.
The prices will drop on the insignias. Stop worrying.
Sidra
But unless they drop below or to the standards of normal armor pricing, elonian armor and the incentive to create elonian characters (and buying nightfall) would probably be a moot point.
Phoenix Arrows
You don't HAVE to have Radiant Armor for your PvEs. You can always use any other cheaper one. They all are perfect, so just get a different one. You like one more than another, as does many other people, and thus you want that one to be cheaper. I want 500000000000000000000000000000000000 Ectos, but you don't see me crying about it. Also, since you can change the stats of your armors, it's already saving you money for buying multiple sets.
Sable Phoenix
The prices are not going to drop significantly. Already, the trader keeps them in stock constantly. This means supply is already outstripping demand. Yet the high-demand Insignia remain over 1k. I don't see Radiant Insignia ever dropping below 2500. This is a fundamentally unfair system when the other two chapters are taken into account.
As for the rest, I stated my concerns in my OP; it has nothing to do with impatience or sour grapes or anything of the sort. I love it when people engage in totally irrelevant ad hominem attacks. You'd think I just insulted someone's mother.
As for the rest, I stated my concerns in my OP; it has nothing to do with impatience or sour grapes or anything of the sort. I love it when people engage in totally irrelevant ad hominem attacks. You'd think I just insulted someone's mother.
Unkemptwolf
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Originally Posted by Horuku
They should just make the armor insignia's available for buying at the armor merchants, otherwise I will NEVER have good armor for my paragon...
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/signed
Mr_T_bot
I really don't know what possessed Arena Net to create a set up like this. Equipping armor with runes was already bad enough, but equipping armors with what should be inherent stats? They already had a perfect system for multiple stats for each look of armor in Factions.
Arkantos
Nightfall hasn't even been out for a week. Right now, everyone is trying to get their hands on insigna's. That's why the prices are so high. Once Nightfall settles in, there will be more supple of insigna's, thus the price will go down.
Sable Phoenix
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Nightfall hasn't even been out for a week. Right now, everyone is trying to get their hands on insigna's. That's why the prices are so high. Once Nightfall settles in, there will be more supple of insigna's, thus the price will go down.
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Number two, that's not the point. Please re-read the original post. They ought to all be 500 gold apiece in order to compare fairly to the previous chapters' armors, as well as be more fair to new or casual players who don't have huge hoards of gold.
Mr_T_bot
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Nightfall hasn't even been out for a week. Right now, everyone is trying to get their hands on insigna's. That's why the prices are so high. Once Nightfall settles in, there will be more supple of insigna's, thus the price will go down.
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strcpy
They may eventually go way down in price, but at this point I doubt it. Some, yes, but they are staying at the trader now and only a few insignias will ever be popular.
The easiest (and cheapest) way to solve this is to increase the drop rate. I find quite a few blue and better armors (and thus, many runes) but few insignias. So far I think I have found two, maybe three, out of at least a dozen rune bearing armors. If every blue or greater (even better would include whites) had a random insignia from the class the monster was they would be cheap and plentiful. Have the max armor cost the same as the old max armor - then you either spend a hundred or so gold/insignia or just go farm that class for an hour or so for all your insignias.
Problem solved and most likely is just a small change in the table on drop rates. Heck, that would be even better for the newbies also.
The easiest (and cheapest) way to solve this is to increase the drop rate. I find quite a few blue and better armors (and thus, many runes) but few insignias. So far I think I have found two, maybe three, out of at least a dozen rune bearing armors. If every blue or greater (even better would include whites) had a random insignia from the class the monster was they would be cheap and plentiful. Have the max armor cost the same as the old max armor - then you either spend a hundred or so gold/insignia or just go farm that class for an hour or so for all your insignias.
Problem solved and most likely is just a small change in the table on drop rates. Heck, that would be even better for the newbies also.
Desires
If you can't afford a few k its not anets or our fault. Also some sets costs 15k or more when you include materials so 2.5 on that is not much and radiant is the only very high one.
Jongo River
I found a Radient today - trader will give me 2800g, but what's so special? It's only 3 energy on chest, 2 on leg or 1 on "other" - chest is just one more than Attunement. Am I missing something - are people that desperate for energy?
ischuros
i have gotten four insignia's already, one repeat. They are survivor's, hydromancer (x2) and saboteurs(sp). They do not demand high prices, witht the exception maybe of Survivors, so i'll just make this clear. only insignia's which are in demand, i.e radiant or MM will be high priced. A previous poster (the op i think) said that Black dye and superior vigor are always in stock and highly priced. Purple dye and any number of ordinary and major runes are always in stock and low prices. Demand for good insignias will make the marlet pricehigh, but since demand for other insignia's, i'll take Hydromancers as an example, is relatively low, it should be ok. i'd expect the vast majority of insignia's to drop significantly in a montth or so, but the high end, demnd heavy, supply short ones, will as always demand a high price. Nothing really to worry about, it's just economics.
Also, i got a Beastmaster's insignia.
Also, i got a Beastmaster's insignia.
Juicey Shake
/signed
I shouldn't have to pay so much more for something I could already get.
wtb 200g per radiant insignia from trader ty!
or make them craftable? 100g + parchment + dust~
I shouldn't have to pay so much more for something I could already get.
wtb 200g per radiant insignia from trader ty!
or make them craftable? 100g + parchment + dust~
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix
Number two, that's not the point. Please re-read the original post. They ought to all be 500 gold apiece in order to compare fairly to the previous chapters' armors, as well as be more fair to new or casual players who don't have huge hoards of gold.
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Quote:
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Zakarr
I'm more worried about new players which have only Nightfall campaign. They will have great difficulties to get wanted armor properties.
Cherno
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Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
I really don't know what possessed Arena Net to create a set up like this. Equipping armor with runes was already bad enough, but equipping armors with what should be inherent stats? They already had a perfect system for multiple stats for each look of armor in Factions.
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But I don't like that they are subject to the fluctuating market. I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra when I craft my armor for the insignias but to keep them at a steady price and always have them available. But then that begs the question, if you can do so with insignias, why can't you do that with runes as well? They would have to make the runes available in the same way.
I don't imagine they will change it but what would be in their control is to make sure there is a very steady stream of these insignias drop so that their price stays low.
Mr_eX
Just because the rune trader doesn't have them in stock doesn't mean that they're not in high supply. It just means it's no longer profitable for the rich farming/powertrader guilds to buyout the rune trader's entire inventory.
But anyway, as others have said, demand is especially high right now because all of these items are brand new. It happened with Sorrow's Furnace greens (Brohn's Set used to cost ~500k,) it happened with the Ruins of Tombs greens, it happened with Canthan greens, it's happened with all the various event items, it's happened with weapon mods, it's happened with minipets, and now it's happening with all of these new Nightfall items.
The Insignia supply *will* grow very large, and prices *will* go down in time. If you don't believe this, then you need to study economics. There's nothing else to say about it.
Those of you complaining about the extra cost need to consider that the base costs of the armors have been adjusted to 1k, 5k, 10k, and 15k to compensate for the need for insignias. Having to spend a couple extra plat tops on insignias shouldn't make a difference to your xunlai account if you can already afford 15k armor.
Finally, if you don't like the system, then feel free to not craft any armor. Nobody is forcing you to craft Elonian armor. Go back to Cantha/Tyria to craft your armors. You already bought the game, so now you're stuck with what you've paid for. If you dislike the system that much, you should have done more research before buying the game. ANet/NCSoft already have your stamp of approval in the form of your money, and thus they don't need to change a thing.
But anyway, as others have said, demand is especially high right now because all of these items are brand new. It happened with Sorrow's Furnace greens (Brohn's Set used to cost ~500k,) it happened with the Ruins of Tombs greens, it happened with Canthan greens, it's happened with all the various event items, it's happened with weapon mods, it's happened with minipets, and now it's happening with all of these new Nightfall items.
The Insignia supply *will* grow very large, and prices *will* go down in time. If you don't believe this, then you need to study economics. There's nothing else to say about it.
Those of you complaining about the extra cost need to consider that the base costs of the armors have been adjusted to 1k, 5k, 10k, and 15k to compensate for the need for insignias. Having to spend a couple extra plat tops on insignias shouldn't make a difference to your xunlai account if you can already afford 15k armor.
Finally, if you don't like the system, then feel free to not craft any armor. Nobody is forcing you to craft Elonian armor. Go back to Cantha/Tyria to craft your armors. You already bought the game, so now you're stuck with what you've paid for. If you dislike the system that much, you should have done more research before buying the game. ANet/NCSoft already have your stamp of approval in the form of your money, and thus they don't need to change a thing.
Jongo River
I'm a little confused as to how pricing works - I get that demand has an effect, but in the first couple of days all new runes/insignias sold out instantly, yet there was barely a jump in price (ones at 260g went to 270g after a day or two). Some are higher now, of course, but it's taken time. Yet when white dye appeared, it seemed to be near instantly over 50K. What gives? Are some items weighted to increase faster? Or maybe the trader system works on what's *really* rare and what simply hasn't been found yet?
That these insignias haven't reached superior vigour prices yet, suggests to me, that they never will.
That these insignias haven't reached superior vigour prices yet, suggests to me, that they never will.
Sable Phoenix
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
And how do you know that these prices won't go down to 500g each? Give it time. As I said, everyone want's insigna's right now. Once NF settles in the prices will drop, and they could even go less then 500g.
You're right, people will always be putting together armor. But, Nightfall has been out for almost a week. The supply is the lowest it will ever be, and the demand is the highest it will ever be. |
And as I said before, that is not the point anyway. In order to achieve parity and fairness with previous chapters, the Insignia must not be a variable commodity. They need to be frozen at 500g each.
Imaginos
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Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
It's only been the first week and so of course these insignias are going to be rare and more expensive. Why are you freaking out and jumping to conclusions so early in the game?
The prices will drop on the insignias. Stop worrying. |
These should have a fixed price to be equil to earlier chapter armor aka 500g as stated by the OP or there should have just been a merchant for these.
Superdarth
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Originally Posted by Phoenix Arrows
You don't HAVE to have Radiant Armor for your PvEs.
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Youre acting asif you HAVE to have radiant armor,you dont HAVE to have it,you WANT to have it, as much as people would tell you otherwise you can get by just fine without radiant armor, sure,itl be harder,but you can.
I dont see a problem in waiting until prices drop or try to get sompthing diffrent for youre armor,or even nothing at all!
Dont worry, be happy!
aron searle
This thread and all the others basicly go the same way
The factions system was perfect, and people defending the insignia system basicly say, "its not that bad, wait and see", No its not that bad BUT IT ISNT AS GOOD.
The factions system was perfect, and people defending the insignia system basicly say, "its not that bad, wait and see", No its not that bad BUT IT ISNT AS GOOD.
Kha
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Originally Posted by Mr_eX
Those of you complaining about the extra cost need to consider that the base costs of the armors have been adjusted to 1k, 5k, 10k, and 15k to compensate for the need for insignias. Having to spend a couple extra plat tops on insignias shouldn't make a difference to your xunlai account if you can already afford 15k armor.
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Imaginos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr_eX
Finally, if you don't like the system, then feel free to not craft any armor. Nobody is forcing you to craft Elonian armor. Go back to Cantha/Tyria to craft your armors. You already bought the game, so now you're stuck with what you've paid for. If you dislike the system that much, you should have done more research before buying the game. ANet/NCSoft already have your stamp of approval in the form of your money, and thus they don't need to change a thing.
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WasAGuest
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Originally Posted by Cherno
The reason was to be able to change your armor around without having to buy a whole other set and using up inventory space. I like this idea a lot, especially so that you can mix and match things up to tweak them. I want a glads set for my warrior or do I want one with extra armor? Well guess I need to buy two full sets to cover my bases. Now you just have to buy one set and can switch out insignias.
But I don't like that they are subject to the fluctuating market. I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra when I craft my armor for the insignias but to keep them at a steady price and always have them available. But then that begs the question, if you can do so with insignias, why can't you do that with runes as well? They would have to make the runes available in the same way. I don't imagine they will change it but what would be in their control is to make sure there is a very steady stream of these insignias drop so that their price stays low. |
Also, why would anyone buy a 1.5k piece of armor, equip it with X insignia that costs them 3k (two inventory spots when you save the swapable one) when they can go buy another 1.5k piece of armor with that stat on it (two inventory slots)? Makes no since.
The insignias need a merchant that can sell 100% of them and they need to be an always in stock item with a set price of nothing more than 500 gold. Otherwise the armor just costs more and the whole system fails for NF armor.
Sid Soggybottom
While I agree that insignias should have been more available and accessible, you people saying that the new inscription system sucks are pretty damn thick in the skull. The new system is far far more flexible than the old one. It's much better. The only problem is that EVERYONE at this points needs/wants inscriptions. Give it some time for crying out loud.
generik
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Originally Posted by Superdarth
Correct!
Youre acting asif you HAVE to have radiant armor,you dont HAVE to have it,you WANT to have it, as much as people would tell you otherwise you can get by just fine without radiant armor, sure,itl be harder,but you can. |
Fluffyx
As its been said before this is a flawed system. The Tyrian armor system was better then this. And Canthas system was perfect, it was what we all were looking for. Any armor skin with any stats. Now we have nightfalls system which takes the inherent mods that we have all been accustomed to buying complete with our armor and makes us purchase them on the side. I don't know why they changed it, possibly to get more use out of the new salvage options or whatever else there is out there it was obviously not a good idea. The problem for me is that the insignias I want are not in stock, other peoples peev is with their price. Now money is not a problem for some of us but for new players having to dish out 20k for their first max armor set is kind of out of the question. The main point is that this system should never have been implemented, there was no need for it. In the coming months hopefully we will see the prices go down since insignia drops are fairly common it will hopefully be just an annoyance for us players in the first couple of weeks.
Sid Soggybottom
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Originally Posted by Fluffyx
In the coming months hopefully we will see the prices go down since insignia drops are fairly common it will hopefully be just an annoyance for us players in the first couple of weeks.
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The new system IS better than the previous two, right now you're all complaining about the system when it's only the lack of insignias that are the problem. This is better for the long run since if you ever decide to change the stats of your armor, all you need to do is change the runes/insignias. Saying that this new systems sucks is to be shortsighted and narrowminded.
allience
/signed
insignias should either be craftable just like armor is or it should have a set price and never run out. i'm very annoyed by these insignias being based on supply/demand. they are a good idea but just the price is too high and they run out of supply so fast. i wanted to get a new armor for my monk from elona but i gave up on it because i'm a pvp player and the trader just didn't have the insignias i was looking for. it makes things even harder to get a pve char rdy for pvp.
i don't think the prices for the insignias in demand will ever drop back to 400gold because ppl constantly craft armors and no top of it heroes also need insignias.
insignias should either be craftable just like armor is or it should have a set price and never run out. i'm very annoyed by these insignias being based on supply/demand. they are a good idea but just the price is too high and they run out of supply so fast. i wanted to get a new armor for my monk from elona but i gave up on it because i'm a pvp player and the trader just didn't have the insignias i was looking for. it makes things even harder to get a pve char rdy for pvp.
i don't think the prices for the insignias in demand will ever drop back to 400gold because ppl constantly craft armors and no top of it heroes also need insignias.
Fluffyx
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Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
So why are you people so annoyed? This always happens when a new chapter comes out, some materials or dyes or whatever go up in price and everyone complains. Just be patient.
The new system IS better than the previous two, right now you're all complaining about the system when it's only the lack of insignias that are the problem. This is better for the long run since if you ever decide to change the stats of your armor, all you need to do is change the runes/insignias. Saying that this new systems sucks is to be shortsighted and narrowminded. |
I would agree with it being better if salvaging the armor to get the insignia out and not breaking your armor. Unless this has been changed your point is null.
Sid Soggybottom
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Originally Posted by Fluffyx
I'm complaining because this system was implemented without a need, thats why. The other two were infinitely better.
I would agree with it being better if salvaging the armor to get the insignia out and not breaking your armor. Unless this has been changed your point is null. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by allience
i don't think the prices for the insignias in demand will ever drop back to 400gold because ppl constantly craft armors and no top of it heroes also need insignias.
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Fluffyx
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
No my point is still valid even if you couldnt salvage the insignia at all. The point is that you can change the stats of your armor for a lot cheaper just by replacing the insignias than buying a whole new set. Try again.
Demand is not infinite and constant and nor does it stay at the peak. Right now demand is at it's highest. |
Swinging Fists
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Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix
I know they won't because I look at Superior Vigors and see them hovering at 30k despite always being in stock. I look at black dye and see them hovering around 10k despite always being in stock. It's the way the broken pseudo-economy of GW works. I guarantee you that the high demand insignia will never drop to 500 gold.
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Also, I have a question about the mechanics of swapping insignias on the armor. When salvaging off an insignia to replace it, do you run the risk of losing the armor ? Because if so, it doesn't seem to me to be such a hot idea. I'd probably prefer to just have 2 sets. It's not like you're taking up more space, because the extra set of insignias take up room too.
Sid Soggybottom
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Originally Posted by Fluffyx
And who says insignias can be overwritten?
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Originally Posted by Swinging Fists
Also, I have a question about the mechanics of swapping insignias on the armor. When salvaging off an insignia to replace it, do you run the risk of losing the armor ? Because if so, it doesn't seem to me to be such a hot idea. I'd probably prefer to just have 2 sets. It's not like you're taking up more space, because the extra set of insignias take up room too.
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Fluffyx
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Originally Posted by Swinging Fists
Oh ? Have you looked at superior absorption runes ? They are in high demand and very cheap. I don't know if they are under 500g, but they are close. And these were up over 100k before.
Also, I have a question about the mechanics of swapping insignias on the armor. When salvaging off an insignia to replace it, do you run the risk of losing the armor ? Because if so, it doesn't seem to me to be such a hot idea. I'd probably prefer to just have 2 sets. It's not like you're taking up more space, because the extra set of insignias take up room too. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
Ummm who says that they can't?
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Darkpower Alchemist
Maybe I can elaborate on the economic status of GW.
The economy is based on supply and demand, also, their are hardly any kept stocks of items at any vendor. That being the case, the availability of items like dye,steel,etc. totally depends on the people who sell to the vendor and the drop rate of said items.
Black dye, for example, has never dropped as frequently as red or orange dye, hence the drastic difference in the price point. The same can be said for Major and Superior vigor runes.
The way to see a swing in the opposite direction of what you consider a "Broken Economy" is the price and availabilty of Superior Absorbtion runes.
This time last year,Sup Absorbtion runes ran for 80k or more. Now, they are like 3 to 5k. That is the example that Arkantos was trying to make. With time and drop rate, plus the lack of demand, the price can nose dive.
I don't always agree with Arkantos, but this time I do. The prices will drop when the need decreases. You can't take the current economic climate as the end result of anything. Black dye has been around since the beginning of play in Prophecies, insignias and inscriptions have been out for a week.
The two are not even in the same league, let alone comparable.
The economy is based on supply and demand, also, their are hardly any kept stocks of items at any vendor. That being the case, the availability of items like dye,steel,etc. totally depends on the people who sell to the vendor and the drop rate of said items.
Black dye, for example, has never dropped as frequently as red or orange dye, hence the drastic difference in the price point. The same can be said for Major and Superior vigor runes.
The way to see a swing in the opposite direction of what you consider a "Broken Economy" is the price and availabilty of Superior Absorbtion runes.
This time last year,Sup Absorbtion runes ran for 80k or more. Now, they are like 3 to 5k. That is the example that Arkantos was trying to make. With time and drop rate, plus the lack of demand, the price can nose dive.
I don't always agree with Arkantos, but this time I do. The prices will drop when the need decreases. You can't take the current economic climate as the end result of anything. Black dye has been around since the beginning of play in Prophecies, insignias and inscriptions have been out for a week.
The two are not even in the same league, let alone comparable.