WOW, what a revelation, if you beat all 3 campaigns, come inside *SPOILERS GALORE*

everyone wondered of many things, if the people of Orr were all dead, why wasn't the Vizier?

What about Shiro? Shiro was good, he killed the emperor for fear of his life. He served the emeperor Loyaly... so why? why did he become evil out of nowhere? And no, the emeperor was NOT going to kill shiro

if you beat nightfall, and were attentive to the story, you'd know that Abaddon used them as "generals" so to speak... one for Tyria (Lich) and 1 for Cantha (Shiro)

but then again, they both must had been tainted by abbadon in order for the 5 gods to banish the 2 of them to Abaddon's Realm of Torment

While it's unclear how the Vizier may have been tainted, it is certainly believable, as he his moust undoubtedly an Elonian, more specifically, from Orr.

Shiro? This one's easy... remember the lady Kheyet from early in the nightfall campaign? she was an advisor to Varesh, you killed her before going to kourna i believe.... well, that lady was just like the prophet that "lied" to shiro... the point im trying to make is that both of them are similar, and likely act as messengers of abbadon, they both were responsible for tainting Varesh and Shiro... if you look at the "flashback"cinematics, you see Shiro constantly battling his mind... its because he sahres the nightmares of abbadon the way kormir would. he had become tainted by the prophet lady...

and if you all remember, the taint acts as like a virus, and that is why the 5 gods would banish all those they could, to make sure to quarentine the virus....

i dunno, i just heard that this was the last GW in this storyline.... pretty cool trilogy IMO... great way to end it, as it seems that this is the end... no more abaddon

Just a Correction:
Noone is "banished" to Abbadon's Realm - He was manipulating the flow of spirits into the afterlife by Daming the river of souls (seen at Gate of Pain mission) - taking whatever souls he wanted into his realm.

It is explained in a quest at the Gate of Secrets. I'll post a topic when I have the time.

Yes, Abaddon did take souls from the river, but when you kill Shiro in Factions, the Envies said that Shiro would be taken into a place in the Underworld that he would not be able to escape, which is the Realm of Torment. When you defeated the Lich, he was probably sent there too.

ok then who would the 5 gods banish to the Torment??

the game specifically said that that was the way the 5 gods would quarantine the taint

edit: and in the first town of the torment realm, forget the name, there is an Ascalonian bound with chains... when you talk to him he says that he was fighting the charr, and the next thing he knew he was in the Torment... apparently the gods determined him to be tainted, so they put him there... however, this ascalonian was not in spirit form, but did have flesh

and please elaborate on the quest regarding the viziers taint, thank you

where can it be found?

Hmm... about the people that had been 'tainted' by Abaddon, willingly or unwillingly is said that the gods had no choice to ban them to the Realm of Torment, since there was a chance of them spreading the evil. That is why Kormir was send to the Realm. As said above, it would be to quarantine Abbadons grasp.

To summarize the history of thw world, as I see it:
The Titans lived in Abaddon's Realm. The Charr see the Titans as their Gods (Charr NPC explains this in Torment). The Titans find means to rouse the Charr into attacking the human kingdoms. The Vizier hears Abaddons whispers in his mind, and is revealed an ancient Scroll that gives him the power to stop the Charr. Not knowing that this would decimate the Orr kingdom. The Vizier got transformed by the process, gained new power and saw an oppertunity to gain world domination. To do this, he would need to perform the Flameseeker Prophesies.
Which MIGHT have been whispered into the thoughts of Glint, BY Abaddon himself. Since Glint is in contact with the gods, she might (unwillingly) be in contact with Abaddon as well. After he gave the Flameseeker Prohpesies to Glint, eons ago, he instructed the Titans to tell the Charr to breed a large army. The Searing was very likely the work of Abaddon, since that was one of his powers on the world, from within his prison. (whisperings in peoples minds, weather events, etc)
On the account of Shiro, the Fortune Teller drove him and probably the Emperor as well, mad. Maybe she was a Djinn, since a NF mission, a friendly Djinn also transforms into a female Dervish. Same could apply to General Khayet.
Apparently Dhuum and Menzies are both aiding Abaddon in his prison break. A NPC in a Mission says they are both supplying Abaddon the souls he needs to break free. The same mission in which you need to kill the Messenger of Dhuum. (nobody say Dhuum is dead, since he apparently isnt)

Anyway, my guess is in the coming update, a lot more will be revealed. Probably you need to finish the game to get the Elite Mission, and then talk to the new Goddess of Secrets in the Chantry of Secrets. (Talk to the Whispers guard in front of the closed door in CoS).

I'm also wondering who would be the real leader of the undead, Palawa Joko or the Lich? He apparently is also a great force in the world, since he can not be killed and has a formidable army.

the lich was the old one because he had the scepter of orr. Palawa Joko is the new one because abaddon gave him that authority.

The lich army are the undead of Orr. Different from the type of undead army palawa joko has.

good point

I'd like to know how the envoys come into the picture. Since they are a large part of the story that is still undefined. They direct the dead yes, but how does one become and envoy, as Shiro did? Also, to be clear in the first post, the first time Shiro died I don't believe he was sent to the Realm of Torment. That was only after commiting the attrocities of the plague and killing Togo.

gwen.

no, i thought gwen went to the Underworld.... unless that big old gwen's gate is the entrance to abbadons realm or whatever.... otherwise i thought gwen was just a prisoner in the underworld.... a lost soul.

To NinjaKai and Gigastrike:

Zomg... wasnt that my original question? You guys are getting things way messed up here.
The undead from ORR are the same as the undead the LICH is controlling, since those undead were created when the Vizier (=Lich former form) read the forbidden scroll.

Also: Palawa Joko is far older then the Lich, he was the Scourge of Vabbi and was finally defeated by Turai Ossa himself, after he had laid waste to most of Elona. Turai Ossa is the great-great-granddaddy of Varesh, who turned evil in Nightfall. Turai Ossa is also the Ghostly Hero that escorts players through the Hall of Heroes. Anyway this means that Palawa Joko (= Undead King, which cannot be killed, so is buried in a tomb alive/undead) has been buried in his tomb, after his defeat for 213 years (if you read the manual). The Lich is created during the Searing, which is 5 years before Nightfall.

With my question I just wanted to point out: They are both extremely powerfull Undead, who both have control over other undead. I just wonder if Palawa Joko has any control over the Lich as well.

You also said that Palawa Joko is influenced by Abaddon himself, but during the game there is no mention of that at all. In fact he seems to be the only character that is not tainted by him at all and also is not worried. He just wants to rebuild his undead army and retake from Varesh/Abaddon what was his.

Your: "the lich was the old one because he had the scepter of orr. Palawa Joko is the new one because abaddon gave him that authority. " completely lacks logical functions. As said above, Lich = 5 years old (+ life as Vizier), Palawa Joko = more then 213 years old (+life/unlife before imprisonment).

End Rant

spare me, i didnt gfininsh the game yet so im just sputtering...and sounding cool and believable!

wow i read alota rant >_>

"Fortune teller" told something what was not true even to Varesh. I don't think he knew what Abaddon really was and got totally corrupted when reached Vabbi. It look like Varesh one point was wondering short time if he was doing right.

The Vizier was either already Undead and somehow survived the explosion, or became Undead as a result. Abaddon's influence either way, IMO.

Again, corrupted by Abaddon's madness. Also, prove that the Emperor wasn't going to kill Shiro. We don't know either way.

Vizier was an Orrian. Not an Elonian as far as we know, no proof of that. Orr was part of Tyria until it was destroyed.

The Vizier was already a worshipper of Abaddon in secret, this is revealed in a Master-quest. Reading the forbidden scroll, probably gave him power, eradicated the Charr from the isle and destroyed the Orrians.
The Titans probably rallied the Charr to rush to Orr, thus allowing the Vizier to use the forbidden scroll as a last refuge. The Titans/Abaddon destroyed the Great Norther Wall (Searing), which allowed the Charr to flood behind it, flooding over Kryta and they rushed to Orr.

According to the lore, a good proportion if not all of the population of Orr was turned into undead by the Cataclysm. The Vizier was simply the most powerful - whether because he was the most powerful to begin with, because he instigated it, or both.

shiro- he was tricked by the fortune teller that told him emporer was gonna kill him

lich- no one did anything he was just crazy for power