everyone wondered of many things, if the people of Orr were all dead, why wasn't the Vizier?
What about Shiro? Shiro was good, he killed the emperor for fear of his life. He served the emeperor Loyaly... so why? why did he become evil out of nowhere? And no, the emeperor was NOT going to kill shiro
if you beat nightfall, and were attentive to the story, you'd know that Abaddon used them as "generals" so to speak... one for Tyria (Lich) and 1 for Cantha (Shiro)
but then again, they both must had been tainted by abbadon in order for the 5 gods to banish the 2 of them to Abaddon's Realm of Torment
While it's unclear how the Vizier may have been tainted, it is certainly believable, as he his moust undoubtedly an Elonian, more specifically, from Orr.
Shiro? This one's easy... remember the lady Kheyet from early in the nightfall campaign? she was an advisor to Varesh, you killed her before going to kourna i believe.... well, that lady was just like the prophet that "lied" to shiro... the point im trying to make is that both of them are similar, and likely act as messengers of abbadon, they both were responsible for tainting Varesh and Shiro... if you look at the "flashback"cinematics, you see Shiro constantly battling his mind... its because he sahres the nightmares of abbadon the way kormir would. he had become tainted by the prophet lady...
and if you all remember, the taint acts as like a virus, and that is why the 5 gods would banish all those they could, to make sure to quarentine the virus....
i dunno, i just heard that this was the last GW in this storyline.... pretty cool trilogy IMO... great way to end it, as it seems that this is the end... no more abaddon
WOW, what a revelation, if you beat all 3 campaigns, come inside *SPOILERS GALORE*
Bellucci
Former Ruling
Just a Correction:
Noone is "banished" to Abbadon's Realm - He was manipulating the flow of spirits into the afterlife by Daming the river of souls (seen at Gate of Pain mission) - taking whatever souls he wanted into his realm.
Noone is "banished" to Abbadon's Realm - He was manipulating the flow of spirits into the afterlife by Daming the river of souls (seen at Gate of Pain mission) - taking whatever souls he wanted into his realm.
Zinger314
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bellucci
While it's unclear how the Vizier may have been tainted, it is certainly believable, as he his moust undoubtedly an Elonian, more specifically, from Orr.
|
Arkantos
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
Just a Correction:
Noone is "banished" to Abbadon's Realm - He was manipulating the flow of spirits into the afterlife by Daming the river of souls (seen at Gate of Pain mission) - taking whatever souls he wanted into his realm. |
Bellucci
ok then who would the 5 gods banish to the Torment??
the game specifically said that that was the way the 5 gods would quarantine the taint
edit: and in the first town of the torment realm, forget the name, there is an Ascalonian bound with chains... when you talk to him he says that he was fighting the charr, and the next thing he knew he was in the Torment... apparently the gods determined him to be tainted, so they put him there... however, this ascalonian was not in spirit form, but did have flesh
and please elaborate on the quest regarding the viziers taint, thank you
where can it be found?
the game specifically said that that was the way the 5 gods would quarantine the taint
edit: and in the first town of the torment realm, forget the name, there is an Ascalonian bound with chains... when you talk to him he says that he was fighting the charr, and the next thing he knew he was in the Torment... apparently the gods determined him to be tainted, so they put him there... however, this ascalonian was not in spirit form, but did have flesh
and please elaborate on the quest regarding the viziers taint, thank you
where can it be found?
Guildmaster Cain
Hmm... about the people that had been 'tainted' by Abaddon, willingly or unwillingly is said that the gods had no choice to ban them to the Realm of Torment, since there was a chance of them spreading the evil. That is why Kormir was send to the Realm. As said above, it would be to quarantine Abbadons grasp.
To summarize the history of thw world, as I see it:
The Titans lived in Abaddon's Realm. The Charr see the Titans as their Gods (Charr NPC explains this in Torment). The Titans find means to rouse the Charr into attacking the human kingdoms. The Vizier hears Abaddons whispers in his mind, and is revealed an ancient Scroll that gives him the power to stop the Charr. Not knowing that this would decimate the Orr kingdom. The Vizier got transformed by the process, gained new power and saw an oppertunity to gain world domination. To do this, he would need to perform the Flameseeker Prophesies.
Which MIGHT have been whispered into the thoughts of Glint, BY Abaddon himself. Since Glint is in contact with the gods, she might (unwillingly) be in contact with Abaddon as well. After he gave the Flameseeker Prohpesies to Glint, eons ago, he instructed the Titans to tell the Charr to breed a large army. The Searing was very likely the work of Abaddon, since that was one of his powers on the world, from within his prison. (whisperings in peoples minds, weather events, etc)
On the account of Shiro, the Fortune Teller drove him and probably the Emperor as well, mad. Maybe she was a Djinn, since a NF mission, a friendly Djinn also transforms into a female Dervish. Same could apply to General Khayet.
Apparently Dhuum and Menzies are both aiding Abaddon in his prison break. A NPC in a Mission says they are both supplying Abaddon the souls he needs to break free. The same mission in which you need to kill the Messenger of Dhuum. (nobody say Dhuum is dead, since he apparently isnt)
Anyway, my guess is in the coming update, a lot more will be revealed. Probably you need to finish the game to get the Elite Mission, and then talk to the new Goddess of Secrets in the Chantry of Secrets. (Talk to the Whispers guard in front of the closed door in CoS).
I'm also wondering who would be the real leader of the undead, Palawa Joko or the Lich? He apparently is also a great force in the world, since he can not be killed and has a formidable army.
To summarize the history of thw world, as I see it:
The Titans lived in Abaddon's Realm. The Charr see the Titans as their Gods (Charr NPC explains this in Torment). The Titans find means to rouse the Charr into attacking the human kingdoms. The Vizier hears Abaddons whispers in his mind, and is revealed an ancient Scroll that gives him the power to stop the Charr. Not knowing that this would decimate the Orr kingdom. The Vizier got transformed by the process, gained new power and saw an oppertunity to gain world domination. To do this, he would need to perform the Flameseeker Prophesies.
Which MIGHT have been whispered into the thoughts of Glint, BY Abaddon himself. Since Glint is in contact with the gods, she might (unwillingly) be in contact with Abaddon as well. After he gave the Flameseeker Prohpesies to Glint, eons ago, he instructed the Titans to tell the Charr to breed a large army. The Searing was very likely the work of Abaddon, since that was one of his powers on the world, from within his prison. (whisperings in peoples minds, weather events, etc)
On the account of Shiro, the Fortune Teller drove him and probably the Emperor as well, mad. Maybe she was a Djinn, since a NF mission, a friendly Djinn also transforms into a female Dervish. Same could apply to General Khayet.
Apparently Dhuum and Menzies are both aiding Abaddon in his prison break. A NPC in a Mission says they are both supplying Abaddon the souls he needs to break free. The same mission in which you need to kill the Messenger of Dhuum. (nobody say Dhuum is dead, since he apparently isnt)
Anyway, my guess is in the coming update, a lot more will be revealed. Probably you need to finish the game to get the Elite Mission, and then talk to the new Goddess of Secrets in the Chantry of Secrets. (Talk to the Whispers guard in front of the closed door in CoS).
I'm also wondering who would be the real leader of the undead, Palawa Joko or the Lich? He apparently is also a great force in the world, since he can not be killed and has a formidable army.
Giga Strike
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
I'm also wondering who would be the real leader of the undead, Palawa Joko or the Lich? He apparently is also a great force in the world, since he can not be killed and has a formidable army.
|
NinjaKai
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
I'm also wondering who would be the real leader of the undead, Palawa Joko or the Lich? He apparently is also a great force in the world, since he can not be killed and has a formidable army.
|
Giga Strike
good point
Jecht Scye
I'd like to know how the envoys come into the picture. Since they are a large part of the story that is still undefined. They direct the dead yes, but how does one become and envoy, as Shiro did? Also, to be clear in the first post, the first time Shiro died I don't believe he was sent to the Realm of Torment. That was only after commiting the attrocities of the plague and killing Togo.
Mesmer in Need
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bellucci
ok then who would the 5 gods banish to the Torment??
|
Hakuin
no, i thought gwen went to the Underworld.... unless that big old gwen's gate is the entrance to abbadons realm or whatever.... otherwise i thought gwen was just a prisoner in the underworld.... a lost soul.
Guildmaster Cain
To NinjaKai and Gigastrike:
Zomg... wasnt that my original question? You guys are getting things way messed up here.
The undead from ORR are the same as the undead the LICH is controlling, since those undead were created when the Vizier (=Lich former form) read the forbidden scroll.
Also: Palawa Joko is far older then the Lich, he was the Scourge of Vabbi and was finally defeated by Turai Ossa himself, after he had laid waste to most of Elona. Turai Ossa is the great-great-granddaddy of Varesh, who turned evil in Nightfall. Turai Ossa is also the Ghostly Hero that escorts players through the Hall of Heroes. Anyway this means that Palawa Joko (= Undead King, which cannot be killed, so is buried in a tomb alive/undead) has been buried in his tomb, after his defeat for 213 years (if you read the manual). The Lich is created during the Searing, which is 5 years before Nightfall.
With my question I just wanted to point out: They are both extremely powerfull Undead, who both have control over other undead. I just wonder if Palawa Joko has any control over the Lich as well.
You also said that Palawa Joko is influenced by Abaddon himself, but during the game there is no mention of that at all. In fact he seems to be the only character that is not tainted by him at all and also is not worried. He just wants to rebuild his undead army and retake from Varesh/Abaddon what was his.
Your: "the lich was the old one because he had the scepter of orr. Palawa Joko is the new one because abaddon gave him that authority. " completely lacks logical functions. As said above, Lich = 5 years old (+ life as Vizier), Palawa Joko = more then 213 years old (+life/unlife before imprisonment).
End Rant
Zomg... wasnt that my original question? You guys are getting things way messed up here.
The undead from ORR are the same as the undead the LICH is controlling, since those undead were created when the Vizier (=Lich former form) read the forbidden scroll.
Also: Palawa Joko is far older then the Lich, he was the Scourge of Vabbi and was finally defeated by Turai Ossa himself, after he had laid waste to most of Elona. Turai Ossa is the great-great-granddaddy of Varesh, who turned evil in Nightfall. Turai Ossa is also the Ghostly Hero that escorts players through the Hall of Heroes. Anyway this means that Palawa Joko (= Undead King, which cannot be killed, so is buried in a tomb alive/undead) has been buried in his tomb, after his defeat for 213 years (if you read the manual). The Lich is created during the Searing, which is 5 years before Nightfall.
With my question I just wanted to point out: They are both extremely powerfull Undead, who both have control over other undead. I just wonder if Palawa Joko has any control over the Lich as well.
You also said that Palawa Joko is influenced by Abaddon himself, but during the game there is no mention of that at all. In fact he seems to be the only character that is not tainted by him at all and also is not worried. He just wants to rebuild his undead army and retake from Varesh/Abaddon what was his.
Your: "the lich was the old one because he had the scepter of orr. Palawa Joko is the new one because abaddon gave him that authority. " completely lacks logical functions. As said above, Lich = 5 years old (+ life as Vizier), Palawa Joko = more then 213 years old (+life/unlife before imprisonment).
End Rant
Giga Strike
spare me, i didnt gfininsh the game yet so im just sputtering...and sounding cool and believable!
AnkurP992
wow i read alota rant >_>
Clord
"Fortune teller" told something what was not true even to Varesh. I don't think he knew what Abaddon really was and got totally corrupted when reached Vabbi. It look like Varesh one point was wondering short time if he was doing right.
Trakata
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bellucci
everyone wondered of many things, if the people of Orr were all dead, why wasn't the Vizier?.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bellucci
What about Shiro? Shiro was good, he killed the emperor for fear of his life. He served the emeperor Loyaly... so why? why did he become evil out of nowhere? And no, the emeperor was NOT going to kill shiro.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bellucci
While it's unclear how the Vizier may have been tainted, it is certainly believable, as he his moust undoubtedly an Elonian, more specifically, from Orr.
|
Guildmaster Cain
The Vizier was already a worshipper of Abaddon in secret, this is revealed in a Master-quest. Reading the forbidden scroll, probably gave him power, eradicated the Charr from the isle and destroyed the Orrians.
The Titans probably rallied the Charr to rush to Orr, thus allowing the Vizier to use the forbidden scroll as a last refuge. The Titans/Abaddon destroyed the Great Norther Wall (Searing), which allowed the Charr to flood behind it, flooding over Kryta and they rushed to Orr.
The Titans probably rallied the Charr to rush to Orr, thus allowing the Vizier to use the forbidden scroll as a last refuge. The Titans/Abaddon destroyed the Great Norther Wall (Searing), which allowed the Charr to flood behind it, flooding over Kryta and they rushed to Orr.
draxynnic
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Trakata
The Vizier was either already Undead and somehow survived the explosion, or became Undead as a result. Abaddon's influence either way, IMO.
|
Tide to Go
shiro- he was tricked by the fortune teller that told him emporer was gonna kill him
lich- no one did anything he was just crazy for power
lich- no one did anything he was just crazy for power
thezed
The Vizier was tainted by the forbbiden scrolls he read. Remember, Orr was once the home of the gods. There was no doubt scrolls there that told of Abaddon and his war with the 5 gods.
Guildmaster Cain
Shiro was corrupted by the FortuneTeller, who was a disguised demon.
Abbaddon was the god that gave the mortals the gifts of magic and didnt agree with the other 5 gods in taking this back and sealing it in the bloodstones. This triggered the war between the gods. Abaddon is said to be stronger then any 2 of the other gods combining their forces, but he was bested by 5 gods.
Originally he was god of 'something and water' (kinda forgot what exactly). But it wasnt Secrets in the beginning.
Abbaddon was the god that gave the mortals the gifts of magic and didnt agree with the other 5 gods in taking this back and sealing it in the bloodstones. This triggered the war between the gods. Abaddon is said to be stronger then any 2 of the other gods combining their forces, but he was bested by 5 gods.
Originally he was god of 'something and water' (kinda forgot what exactly). But it wasnt Secrets in the beginning.
Riesz
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by thezed
The Vizier was tainted by the forbbiden scrolls he read. Remember, Orr was once the home of the gods. There was no doubt scrolls there that told of Abaddon and his war with the 5 gods.
|
Makaelthos Solcry
What some girl(i think o.O) was going to explain was that in a quest in the gate of secrets ( you get this quest from kaelen or something) it is clearly mentioned that a person named Tereck was the true being responsible for the destruction of Orr. I don't think they explained how, but thats what was made clear. Also, Tereck turned into an undead dog-looking thing named something starting with R in the final part where we had to kill him.
It might be major, but i think tereck was simply a priest of abaddon, and tainted Khilbron into casting the doomspell .Either that or both were in Arah at the time .
Nightfall has really added depth and explained many concepts in previous chapters, because I remember when i first read teh manual, it said vizier khilbron uttered 'forbidden words of magic' ;and frankly i was kind of puzzled, I mean why would the magic be forbidden, and more inmportantly, why would that same piece be in the city of the gods !
Well, now it has been explained that Arah was the city of the six gods, and the presence of Abaddon in there wasn't purged when the exodus took place .
At the time of the cataclysm, either tereck(who i think it was) or vizier, casted a spell which didn't destroy Orr, but sank it into the netehrrealm to be made the Realm of Torment .And with Orr, went numerous Charr and titans, who eventually became servants of abaddon .And so the ring of komalie, teh tomb of the primeval kings, the heroes ascent among other unknown places became portals for Abaddon to spread his demonic influence .
And do you know what that means ?The temple of the six gods in The Gate of Madness mission is the temple of Arah !
What else ?In that same mission, Lyssa's muse addressed us. This means that even in the Realm of Torment, the five Gods still had power .Now if they had power why didn't they stop abaddon ?
Because Abaddon is stronger than all of the five Gods put together .
If that is true, then how could mortals possibly destroy him ?When Abaddon is 'killed' in Abaddon's Gate(mission), he was actually just broken from his chains , ready to unleash his wrath, but he couldn't do that, because Kormir inherited all his power .
Now i really dont know exactly what this means, but numerous theories can be made .
=D
It might be major, but i think tereck was simply a priest of abaddon, and tainted Khilbron into casting the doomspell .Either that or both were in Arah at the time .
Nightfall has really added depth and explained many concepts in previous chapters, because I remember when i first read teh manual, it said vizier khilbron uttered 'forbidden words of magic' ;and frankly i was kind of puzzled, I mean why would the magic be forbidden, and more inmportantly, why would that same piece be in the city of the gods !
Well, now it has been explained that Arah was the city of the six gods, and the presence of Abaddon in there wasn't purged when the exodus took place .
At the time of the cataclysm, either tereck(who i think it was) or vizier, casted a spell which didn't destroy Orr, but sank it into the netehrrealm to be made the Realm of Torment .And with Orr, went numerous Charr and titans, who eventually became servants of abaddon .And so the ring of komalie, teh tomb of the primeval kings, the heroes ascent among other unknown places became portals for Abaddon to spread his demonic influence .
And do you know what that means ?The temple of the six gods in The Gate of Madness mission is the temple of Arah !
What else ?In that same mission, Lyssa's muse addressed us. This means that even in the Realm of Torment, the five Gods still had power .Now if they had power why didn't they stop abaddon ?
Because Abaddon is stronger than all of the five Gods put together .
If that is true, then how could mortals possibly destroy him ?When Abaddon is 'killed' in Abaddon's Gate(mission), he was actually just broken from his chains , ready to unleash his wrath, but he couldn't do that, because Kormir inherited all his power .
Now i really dont know exactly what this means, but numerous theories can be made .
=D
Tarus From Taros
I knew a thread was going to be posted about this eventually. The real questions here should be, "Why did the Emperor break tradition and allow Shiro into the temple?" and "Is the Realm of Torment within the Mists or not?".
For question 1, that just doesn't make any sense. Regardless of whatever bs anet makes up to give motive to shiros actions I don't see how this can be explained.
2. Another mess up on Anet's part. There are several Npc's within Elona that mention RoT being in the Mists or not being in the Mists. I probably should have wrote down every npc who talked about it but from what I can remember offhand.
The Envoy's in factions discuss sending Shiro to a special section of the underworld. This is not the case because Shrio is in the realm of torment which is definitly seperated from the underworld and also perhaps the entire mists.
One Npc in vabbi mentions that RoT is not part of the mists. I believe the npc might be the guy you talk to during a quest, something about wife being a bad musician.
Also Why is Kormir known as both the Goddess of Secrets and the Goddess of Truths? Pick one and stick with it eh?
Speaking of Kormir, anyone taking bet's that she will become evil? After completing the game and going through the forgotton npc back to Kamadan the voiceover guy talks about The time of the 5 true gods is over, or something along those lines. Speaking to one of the mad souls after game completion will give you this gem of information:
A new god is born! A god that will destroy the others and bring about the end of the world! The cycle begins again!
Please note that I do believe the soul is talking about Kormir and not Abaddon. I never was able to get the soul to say that until I completed the game.
Also, doing one of the side quests in RoT I found that Abaddon was not born at the time of the other gods, he in fact took the place of a god before him. Who he replaced is anyone's guess but this could mean that Abaddon's power will eventually corrupt Kormir.
For question 1, that just doesn't make any sense. Regardless of whatever bs anet makes up to give motive to shiros actions I don't see how this can be explained.
2. Another mess up on Anet's part. There are several Npc's within Elona that mention RoT being in the Mists or not being in the Mists. I probably should have wrote down every npc who talked about it but from what I can remember offhand.
The Envoy's in factions discuss sending Shiro to a special section of the underworld. This is not the case because Shrio is in the realm of torment which is definitly seperated from the underworld and also perhaps the entire mists.
One Npc in vabbi mentions that RoT is not part of the mists. I believe the npc might be the guy you talk to during a quest, something about wife being a bad musician.
Also Why is Kormir known as both the Goddess of Secrets and the Goddess of Truths? Pick one and stick with it eh?
Speaking of Kormir, anyone taking bet's that she will become evil? After completing the game and going through the forgotton npc back to Kamadan the voiceover guy talks about The time of the 5 true gods is over, or something along those lines. Speaking to one of the mad souls after game completion will give you this gem of information:
A new god is born! A god that will destroy the others and bring about the end of the world! The cycle begins again!
Please note that I do believe the soul is talking about Kormir and not Abaddon. I never was able to get the soul to say that until I completed the game.
Also, doing one of the side quests in RoT I found that Abaddon was not born at the time of the other gods, he in fact took the place of a god before him. Who he replaced is anyone's guess but this could mean that Abaddon's power will eventually corrupt Kormir.
Cowboy Nastyman
as for the question of why the emperor broke tradition and allowed shiro in the temple, he may have been manipulated as well, perhaps told of a threat on his life that would occur at the harvest temple. so surely the emperor would believe he would be safe so long as shiro was at his side, my theory on this anyway.
Mister Muhkuh
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Riesz
Maybe this began to turn him undead, similar to Kormir's blinding...
|
seut
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Makaelthos Solcry
And do you know what that means ?The temple of the six gods in The Gate of Madness mission is the temple of Arah !
|
Free Runner
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tarus From Taros
The Envoy's in factions discuss sending Shiro to a special section of the underworld. This is not the case because Shrio is in the realm of torment which is definitly seperated from the underworld and also perhaps the entire mists. |
From guild wiki
"It is revealed by the Reaper of the Bone Pits in the Underworld that the Realm of Torment is a division of the Underworld where the most wicked go to spend eternity in torment"
Ulivious The Reaper
Hmm this is interesting, so shiro WAS banished to a part of the Underworld, i also assumed the RoT was entirely different place with no affiliation with the Underworld
Tarus From Taros
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Free Runner
It is supposed that the Realm Of Torment is a seperate division of the Underworld where those who have commited the most evil crimes are sent.
From guild wiki "It is revealed by the Reaper of the Bone Pits in the Underworld that the Realm of Torment is a division of the Underworld where the most wicked go to spend eternity in torment" |
malevolence
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tarus From Taros
Several different NPC's have conflicting stories.
|
draxynnic
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by seut
I think, it was mentioned somewhere that the temple of the six gods was in the area that turned into the Crystal Desert when Abaddon was banished.
|
Also, Abaddon's power is mentioned somewhere - He is (or was) more powerful than any of the other gods individually, but not as powerful as the five combined.
Night Daftshadow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by draxynnic
Also, Abaddon's power is mentioned somewhere - He is (or was) more powerful than any of the other gods individually, but not as powerful as the five combined.
|
Guildmaster Cain
Yup, Abaddon was more powerfull then the other gods individually. Also, gods arent eternal, there were predecessors before them and there will be new ones after them. (proof are Kormir and Grenth) Abbadon and the Five are siblings to eachother (I dont know if that term includes half-brothers (Menzies) as well).
Maybe similar to the ancient Greek gods, they challenged their father.
If you have some screenshots about any ingame lore, I hope to post it in this thread, but I will need your help:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10073310
Maybe similar to the ancient Greek gods, they challenged their father.
If you have some screenshots about any ingame lore, I hope to post it in this thread, but I will need your help:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10073310