i was in kamadan recently when i noticed someone selling a max dmg req9 15^50 scythe for 10k. the price seemed ok so i asked to have a look. to my surprise it was a collectors scythe. i didnt make a big deal of it and told the seller that i wasnt interested.
im sure the seller is making a ton of cash selling the collectors scythes and spears to noobs for 10k/each considering it probably only costs him like ~500g to get them.
i personally dont think that the seller is a scammer but thats not to say that he is taking advantage of noobs in the game that are less informed. id say that hes not a very moral player but i dont think that i can call him a scammer.
what do u think?
Moral Grey Area or Scammer?
korcan
Gonzo
AFAIK Collector items don't come with insignia's (or do they, I got a insignia free suntouched spear from a collector).
Terra Xin
Nah that's just plain old scamming. Its exactly like someone in Pre-searing advertising "WTB Black Dye, 1k!".
(And yes, they dont come with insignias, otherwise everyone would be salvaging the 15^50 like crazy :P)
(And yes, they dont come with insignias, otherwise everyone would be salvaging the 15^50 like crazy :P)
justadude
But there are collectors that offer items with mods. I saw some 15% while enchanted from a collector somewhere. Even if he is offering new players a max damage weapon the price is what makes it dubious at best.
Bokocasso
1st it is not scamming, you don't know the prices > don't buy.
2nd collector items cannot be salvaged.
2nd collector items cannot be salvaged.
Hysteria
Its not a scam. Back in prophecies quite a few people would gather max collectors weapons and sell them in L.A for a few K. Basically people were being paid for they're time and effort and providing a service for characters that weren't able to get max collector items yet. As for the price, thats between the buyer and seller but if people are expecting a nice rare at that price all they need to do is simply close the trade box. The people selling these will quickly realize they need to drop they're prices or simply stop wasting they're time as most people won't buy them.
Zui
It's neither a scam, nor a moral grey area. People are getting exactly what they are paying for. Worth is relative, and the fact that they never bothered to inform themselves is their own fault.
Arkantos
An item is only worth what someone offers. If the buyer is willing to pay 10k for a scythe so be it.
Gonzo
If you have enough money to pay 10k, you've been playing for a while and should be "hip" to the prices.
I didn't mean they came with inscriptions, but do collectors items come with inherent mods? Or am I just lucky/unlucky to have found a spear with a free inscription slot?
I didn't mean they came with inscriptions, but do collectors items come with inherent mods? Or am I just lucky/unlucky to have found a spear with a free inscription slot?
arcanemacabre
Agree with Gonzo. By now, if you have 10k, surely you would know looking at an item if it's a collector's or not. If they're selling it for 1-2k, that could be closer to what it's worth for the trouble to get it.
random.name
Dont see it as a scam either. I have bought a few collectors items simply because I cant be bothered to collect the stuff and go there.
natus
You can get 15^50 scythes on a top of a mountain somewhere out in the desolation, shattered ravines i tihnk.
Tainek
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Terra Xin
Nah that's just plain old scamming. Its exactly like someone in Pre-searing advertising "WTB Black Dye, 1k!".
(And yes, they dont come with insignias, otherwise everyone would be salvaging the 15^50 like crazy :P) |
Neither is scamming, buying black dye cheap is not exactly moral gold, but it is not scamming, if you are so new to the game that you do not know the value of black dye, you shouldnt be selling (If you knew nothing about car prices, would you sell your car for the first offer you got in a showroom?)
Neither is this scamming or morally wrong, it costs 5K + mats (so lets say 5.5K) to craft a sythe, the extra 4.5K is convenience, i dont need to find a 15>50 insignia . i'd pay for that anyday
Knightsaber Sith
I don't think anyone could even amass 10k without gaining atleast a basic sense of the value of a weapon. I'd say anyone that could afford it should have the sense to decide if they want it.
Guildmaster Cain
Hmm... I kinda accidentally sold a Hand of the Forgotten (endgame scythe ~80k), for about 5k. The buyer knew it was worth more and so did I, but somehow I got confused with the new trade window and didnt bother to read proper. Exit 75k... ah well, Ill live, plus the fact that it was only ingame money easily earned back.
I asked the trader to trade the scythe back, but ofcourse he didnt. This could fit into the moral grey area I guess. I wonder how I would have reacted if it was the other way around. Probably if he asked nicely, I would have given it back.
I asked the trader to trade the scythe back, but ofcourse he didnt. This could fit into the moral grey area I guess. I wonder how I would have reacted if it was the other way around. Probably if he asked nicely, I would have given it back.
justadude
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tainek
Neither is scamming, buying black dye cheap is not exactly moral gold, but it is not scamming, if you are so new to the game that you do not know the value of black dye, you shouldnt be selling (If you knew nothing about car prices, would you sell your car for the first offer you got in a showroom?)
Neither is this scamming or morally wrong, it costs 5K + mats (so lets say 5.5K) to craft a sythe, the extra 4.5K is convenience, i dont need to find a 15>50 insignia . i'd pay for that anyday |
Second, it was a collectors item, traded for 3 - 5 drop items usually sold for 500g to 2k. 10k is a steep price, but an experienced player starting a new character might pay it to have access to a good weapon.
Tetris L
There is a friendly warning from a GWGuru auction admin for a good reason:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/viewnew.php?id=17
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/viewnew.php?id=17
doinchi
I don't think its scamming, but I don't tihnk its right either. I have offered good collector items for maybe 5k, but I make sure the seller knows it a collector item. Maybe he is selling it for 10k because he paid for the scythe 15^50 insignia. Like an above poster said, if you don't know the price, don't buy it. But its always nice to make sure your buyer knows what hes getting.
Chieftain Heavyhand
Is it scamming No.
One thing I have found out playing this game is that there are alot of people out there that claim you are scamming because you can obtain an item later in the game or by some other means. They say you are scamming when you try to sell collector items because the collectors are available to everyone. I've been accused of scamming for trying to sell my Gray Giant because it is obtainable via PC gamer. I was accused of scamming in pre because I was buying dye, would not take black dyes (had one person offer me one once and I told him/her to keep it, it was worth at least 7k at the dye trader later), the kicker was that what the dye trader was buying dye for was lower than what I was buying it for on over half of the dye colors. I never sold any of them anyway because there was no money in it. I do have a nice dye collection now though
As for those who like to cry scam I feel they are just spoilers. Now I'm not saying they are always wrong I popped into pre the other day and saw someone trying to buy black dye cheap, but I think it is more seller beware that scamming.
As for the collectors and end game items. Is selling a green or gold item scamming because from the accusers view point of, you can acquire them in the game as well, it is by their definition because these items can be obtained in game for free. I do think the seller was asking a steep price for the item but some of the end game items I had crafted in Prophecies cost 5k + materials so they usually ran close to 8k after it was all said and done so 10k is not all that unrealistic.
If people want to scream scammer then look at the rune, dye, merchants, and material and rare material traders in game these guys are the masters of scam. The dye and rune traders are by far the worst. A superior vigor rune the last time I checked was around 32k they would buy one from you for 26k when black dye hit 12k they were offering 8k. The merchants and materials NPC’s are just as bad.
One thing I have found out playing this game is that there are alot of people out there that claim you are scamming because you can obtain an item later in the game or by some other means. They say you are scamming when you try to sell collector items because the collectors are available to everyone. I've been accused of scamming for trying to sell my Gray Giant because it is obtainable via PC gamer. I was accused of scamming in pre because I was buying dye, would not take black dyes (had one person offer me one once and I told him/her to keep it, it was worth at least 7k at the dye trader later), the kicker was that what the dye trader was buying dye for was lower than what I was buying it for on over half of the dye colors. I never sold any of them anyway because there was no money in it. I do have a nice dye collection now though
As for those who like to cry scam I feel they are just spoilers. Now I'm not saying they are always wrong I popped into pre the other day and saw someone trying to buy black dye cheap, but I think it is more seller beware that scamming.
As for the collectors and end game items. Is selling a green or gold item scamming because from the accusers view point of, you can acquire them in the game as well, it is by their definition because these items can be obtained in game for free. I do think the seller was asking a steep price for the item but some of the end game items I had crafted in Prophecies cost 5k + materials so they usually ran close to 8k after it was all said and done so 10k is not all that unrealistic.
If people want to scream scammer then look at the rune, dye, merchants, and material and rare material traders in game these guys are the masters of scam. The dye and rune traders are by far the worst. A superior vigor rune the last time I checked was around 32k they would buy one from you for 26k when black dye hit 12k they were offering 8k. The merchants and materials NPC’s are just as bad.
Muse of Shadows
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
Hmm... I kinda accidentally sold a Hand of the Forgotten (endgame scythe ~80k), for about 5k. The buyer knew it was worth more and so did I, but somehow I got confused with the new trade window and didnt bother to read proper. Exit 75k... ah well, Ill live, plus the fact that it was only ingame money easily earned back.
I asked the trader to trade the scythe back, but ofcourse he didnt. This could fit into the moral grey area I guess. I wonder how I would have reacted if it was the other way around. Probably if he asked nicely, I would have given it back. |
Selling something for an agree'd ammount, however, regardless of current market value, is NOT a scam.
gene terrodon
Why everyone thinks so low of collector/crafter weapons is beyond me.
The scythe in the OP's thread is a good weapon at a good price.
I saw no hints at misrepresentation or bait and switch.
The weapon was advertised and demoed and you had your choice to say yay or nay.
Also, was it a collector's weapon or a crafted weapon?
A crafted weapon, after mods and materials can easily cost >10K.
How much for a gold one with similar stats? 25k or more? Now that's scamming.
Any weapon that fits your needs, whether crafter, collector, gold or green is worth what you’re willing to pay for it.
The scythe in the OP's thread is a good weapon at a good price.
I saw no hints at misrepresentation or bait and switch.
The weapon was advertised and demoed and you had your choice to say yay or nay.
Also, was it a collector's weapon or a crafted weapon?
A crafted weapon, after mods and materials can easily cost >10K.
How much for a gold one with similar stats? 25k or more? Now that's scamming.
Any weapon that fits your needs, whether crafter, collector, gold or green is worth what you’re willing to pay for it.
Tetris L
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gene terrodon
Why everyone thinks so low of collector's weapons is beyond me.
The scythe in the OP's thread is a good weapon at a good price. |
If you point out to a potential buyer that what you're selling is a collector weapon and he is still willing to pay 10k, then the buyer is an idiot and deserves no better. If you're trying to hide the fact that it's a collector weapon then you're scamming, IMHO.
xuemin
it's not a scam, it's more of an abuse of new players in some cases. not all new players know about sites like guru and wiki and may be afraid to ask in local chat because of certain types of people in game >.>
Sooty
I was actually doing exactly what the op is talking about. I rushed through nightfall, finished the game and was workin on my ele when i saw a TON of people saying wtb max scythes and spears. I thought to myself well i remember seeing a collector for margonite masks somewhere trading them for 15^50 scythes and spears. So i picked some up and went back to Kamadan and said:
WTS max 15^50 scythes and spears (collectors)
Now i'm guessing i'm not who the op is talking about because I made it obvious that it was a collectors item in my ad. I sold one scythe for 5k before i thought better of it and put them on my heroes, and given that i was up front about what they were no i don't think it was a scam at all, and even if someone else didn't say it was collectors in their ad no it's not a scam either. If someone is starting a low level character and wants a max 15^50 weapon at the start of a new campaign, it's obviously going to be worth something to them to have it. I understand if people who don't have a lot of gold think this is unfair but the fact is if the next person along is happy to pay more than you, then he's the one the seller will sell to. That's the way market economies work.
p.s. i doubt it would have been the new players buying them either.
WTS max 15^50 scythes and spears (collectors)
Now i'm guessing i'm not who the op is talking about because I made it obvious that it was a collectors item in my ad. I sold one scythe for 5k before i thought better of it and put them on my heroes, and given that i was up front about what they were no i don't think it was a scam at all, and even if someone else didn't say it was collectors in their ad no it's not a scam either. If someone is starting a low level character and wants a max 15^50 weapon at the start of a new campaign, it's obviously going to be worth something to them to have it. I understand if people who don't have a lot of gold think this is unfair but the fact is if the next person along is happy to pay more than you, then he's the one the seller will sell to. That's the way market economies work.
p.s. i doubt it would have been the new players buying them either.
Sooty
accidental post.
Desires
well not so much now but before 10k for a max damage syche was kinda cheap I mean the people spaming for any max damage one was insane.
Pkest
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tetris L
I'm not thinking low of collector's weapons. Not at all. The offered scythe is a good weapon! But it is not worth 10k. No way. Most of the items required for max dmg collector weapons can be collected by less than 1/2 hour of farming. Asking 10k for that is seriously overpriced.
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Eviance
Ya know the price on that Scythe all depends on how hard it is to obtain, be it collectors or not!
We all remember the crimson carapice that you needed those shells for? Those shells sold for 1-2k a pop and you needed 5 of them, but they were NOT easily farmable. So even though the shield was collectors it could usually sell for 8-20k depending on how desperate the buyer was.
So no not a scam imo.
We all remember the crimson carapice that you needed those shells for? Those shells sold for 1-2k a pop and you needed 5 of them, but they were NOT easily farmable. So even though the shield was collectors it could usually sell for 8-20k depending on how desperate the buyer was.
So no not a scam imo.
EternalTempest
I say it's not a scam.
A - Advertise X item with X stats at X price
B - Item is X item with X stats and pays X price.
Now If it's a practice I agree with then the answer is no. I like to be honest, I would feel it's price gouging. Here's an example, what the oil / gas companies is doing. There legally allowed to price gouge but people hate it. It's not illegal for them to try and make more money. It's the public pressure that can sometime bring them back in check. Not the law.
I'm all for applying social pressure, if spam about how you can get the same item for monster drops or educating people on collectors stuff. I would not call the seller names or attack them.
A - Advertise X item with X stats at X price
B - Item is X item with X stats and pays X price.
Now If it's a practice I agree with then the answer is no. I like to be honest, I would feel it's price gouging. Here's an example, what the oil / gas companies is doing. There legally allowed to price gouge but people hate it. It's not illegal for them to try and make more money. It's the public pressure that can sometime bring them back in check. Not the law.
I'm all for applying social pressure, if spam about how you can get the same item for monster drops or educating people on collectors stuff. I would not call the seller names or attack them.
XvArchonvX
If someone is presenting a weapon like that and not informing the buyer that it is a collector item, then the seller obviously had the intent to take advantage of the buyer's lack of knowledge. I think it all comes down to what you consider a scam. If you consider a scam the act of taking all and giving none, then no it is not a scam, but if you consider a scam the act of taking advantage of a buyer's lack of knowledge in order to make a large amount of money that could not have been made, would the buyer have known better, than yes it is a scam. Personally, I'm not sure if I would consider it a scam, but I would consider it wrong regardless.
lyra_song
I consider this more Scalping/Price gouging.
The Scythe is a perfectly fine scythe.
Its a collector's scythe. yes.
Is it worth 10k? no.
At this point in the game, would some people be willing to pay 10k for a blue scythe? maybe.
I remember when Factions came out, people were selling Katanas in LA for relatively high prices. Its the same thing.
The Scythe is a perfectly fine scythe.
Its a collector's scythe. yes.
Is it worth 10k? no.
At this point in the game, would some people be willing to pay 10k for a blue scythe? maybe.
I remember when Factions came out, people were selling Katanas in LA for relatively high prices. Its the same thing.
logik
not scamming at all. A ton of people do this all the time. I do, and when i sell it people know its collectors or crafers (as in the case with Factions weapons).
nightshade_eyes
10k? only an idiot would pay that much. you can get the same weapon for 5k+mats at a crafter.
gene terrodon
Why are all of the people with an issue pointing to the fact that the weapon is a collector's weapon?
If the seller advertises a weapon, with specific stats and produces that weapon...regardless if it's a rare weapon or a common collector's weapon, there is no scam. Point blank. Liken it to this...
You go to your neighborhood electronics store looking for a GPU.
They have it for $100, but you can get online for $75...but have to wait a week for the etailer to ship it to you. What do you do if you need the GPU today?
Will you pony up the $100 or will pay $75 and wait a week?
Or what if you could pay $100 for a computer desk or spend 8 hours building it yourself, what would you do?
Spend the 8 hours to build the desk or pay $100 for a pre-built desk?
In the examples above, do you fell that your neighborhood retailer scamming you?
If not, then why do you feel the player selling (legitimately) a collector's/crafter's weapon is?
If the seller advertises a weapon, with specific stats and produces that weapon...regardless if it's a rare weapon or a common collector's weapon, there is no scam. Point blank. Liken it to this...
You go to your neighborhood electronics store looking for a GPU.
They have it for $100, but you can get online for $75...but have to wait a week for the etailer to ship it to you. What do you do if you need the GPU today?
Will you pony up the $100 or will pay $75 and wait a week?
Or what if you could pay $100 for a computer desk or spend 8 hours building it yourself, what would you do?
Spend the 8 hours to build the desk or pay $100 for a pre-built desk?
In the examples above, do you fell that your neighborhood retailer scamming you?
If not, then why do you feel the player selling (legitimately) a collector's/crafter's weapon is?
dansamy
I have purchased collector items from players simply because I couldn't be troubled to go get it myself. I'm seriously cnsidering finding myself another player to provide a weapons service for me, for a price of course. I need to build new staves, etc and really don't wish to assemble them myself. I'd gladly pay someone else for the service.
Darcy
Scam? No. A scam is when the seller is trying to get money without giving the buyer the agreed sale item, e.g. fake runs, substituted items, unusable items.
Immoral? No. The buyer gets to see the item in the trade window. A collector weapon is blue with perfect stats for that item. There is no lying involved. And you can't tell from an ad, what conversation followed between seller and buyer.
Factions players offering runs from The Marketplace to KC are not scammers (although some of them are price gouging). They perform the service they advertise. I never accuse them of scamming, although I will announce that runs aren't needed and give the directions to KC.
The same with collector or crafter weapons. Yes, they are available to the buyer - if he has reached the area of the collector/crafter with the required materials. Prior to that, the item is worth what he is willing to pay.
I have a crafted shield that is the equivalent of the Exalted Aegis without the skin. I will sell it to anyone for 10K. It cost me about 6k in gold and materials. That doesn't make me a scammer, just someone looking for a profit.
Immoral? No. The buyer gets to see the item in the trade window. A collector weapon is blue with perfect stats for that item. There is no lying involved. And you can't tell from an ad, what conversation followed between seller and buyer.
Factions players offering runs from The Marketplace to KC are not scammers (although some of them are price gouging). They perform the service they advertise. I never accuse them of scamming, although I will announce that runs aren't needed and give the directions to KC.
The same with collector or crafter weapons. Yes, they are available to the buyer - if he has reached the area of the collector/crafter with the required materials. Prior to that, the item is worth what he is willing to pay.
I have a crafted shield that is the equivalent of the Exalted Aegis without the skin. I will sell it to anyone for 10K. It cost me about 6k in gold and materials. That doesn't make me a scammer, just someone looking for a profit.
Malice Black
Paying money for collectors items is perfectly fine. 10k is reasonable if they are after a cheap 15^50 scythe and can't get to the collector.
People sold +5 Katanas when Factions went live..whats the difference? The person in question is just adding a small % fee for taking the trouble of getting the item..all above board and hardly "scamming".
Seriously some people that post on these forums lead sheltered lives.
People sold +5 Katanas when Factions went live..whats the difference? The person in question is just adding a small % fee for taking the trouble of getting the item..all above board and hardly "scamming".
Seriously some people that post on these forums lead sheltered lives.
Gigashadow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Terra Xin
Nah that's just plain old scamming. Its exactly like someone in Pre-searing advertising "WTB Black Dye, 1k!".
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The Great Al
There's no way that's a scam - theres a difference between scamming someone and ripping them off. Offering a wrong gold amount when buying something, or selling a customized weapon is IMO scamming, although in both instances the person being scammed should be more careful.
Yesterday I sold my book of secrets for 65k. Did I scam the guy? No way...did I rip him off? Definetly, the guy didn't even know what to do with it, and was spamming WTB book of secrets...that's his loss, not mine, but I didn't do anything against the rules.
Yesterday I sold my book of secrets for 65k. Did I scam the guy? No way...did I rip him off? Definetly, the guy didn't even know what to do with it, and was spamming WTB book of secrets...that's his loss, not mine, but I didn't do anything against the rules.