Skills points hold you back from nothing now, especially with the massive exp quests and 1-3 skills point for mission completion levels. Before you know it, you'll have 30,40,50 unspent skills points.
When you go to a skill trainer, you'll find that the 1k per skill is what slows you down. Obviously a.net won't change the prices for buying skills, but rather "encourge" you to buy skills (thus improving the gold sink factor for skill trainers).
So what about cap sigs? Sure you may buy a lot of sigs, but you gain 5k exp for every elite you cap, making your next skill point easy to obtain. Only the 1k cost is going to stop you.
"Doesn't that mean a lv1 character can buy all their skills at the start?" (assuming you unlocked the skill elsewhere)
If you got the gold for it. You're looking at ~10k just for your basic skills, and nearly 100k if you want to be flexible for PvP.
And what about the "level-up" every 12k exp? It's just sign of a virtual level obtained. Obviously your "real" level isn't show cause of a.net philosophy on player skill not play time. That "level-up" glow can remain, but it's just bells and whisles since a.net does not recognize lv21 and +.
So what does this all mean? For a.net, make the skill trainer gold sink better. For us, remove the barrier keeping us from spending all our gold on skills.
Remove skill points
Praetor
Omnidragon42
/notsigned
I have a lot more money than skill points, but I think the flavor of skill points is important to the game, a character can only become more skillful by training and "levelling" - I don't think it's right to be able to buy however many skills you want right off the bat.
I have a lot more money than skill points, but I think the flavor of skill points is important to the game, a character can only become more skillful by training and "levelling" - I don't think it's right to be able to buy however many skills you want right off the bat.
Carth`
"Skill points hold you back from nothing now"
"remove the barrier keeping us from spending all our gold on skills"
Hmm, remove the barrier that holds you back from nothing.
Tbh just leave it the way it is, unless I see a vastly better suggestion.
"remove the barrier keeping us from spending all our gold on skills"
Hmm, remove the barrier that holds you back from nothing.
Tbh just leave it the way it is, unless I see a vastly better suggestion.
Teutonic Paladin
I now have 219 Elites on my warrior and 138 on my monk. I have never had a money issue, I spend ALOT of time farming skill points. Before Nightfall came out I farmed 49 skills points to continue my titles. I always have enough money (I make 1k-2k easily per skill point) and almost never enough skill points. Allowing you to use only money would do nothing but ruin the challenge of Underworld/Fissure Questing that I like to do for my skill points. Who cares about the 10k xp rewards if they don't do anything?
Pynne
/not signed
For me, it's quite the opposite. Not that I have alot of gold, but I always seems to have enough when I finally grind a few skill points.
For me, it's quite the opposite. Not that I have alot of gold, but I always seems to have enough when I finally grind a few skill points.
Knightsaber Sith
/notsigned
The purpose of skill points is that you have to earn skills more so than just cash you've earned using other characters. It's only a gold sink if you choose to buy every skill. As far as unlocking for pvp; you can always use balthazar faction and of course the pvp edition.
You should have to earn each skill on each individual character rather than just the cash you earned on your other character >_<
The purpose of skill points is that you have to earn skills more so than just cash you've earned using other characters. It's only a gold sink if you choose to buy every skill. As far as unlocking for pvp; you can always use balthazar faction and of course the pvp edition.
You should have to earn each skill on each individual character rather than just the cash you earned on your other character >_<
Zexion
To me, the money and not the skill points is the barrier. I wish ANet would just lower the cost of skills. They effectively halved the cost of skills in faction (doubled faction gain). And made skill points 2x easier to get through normal play. By that logic, they should halve the gold price of skills.
_Zexion
_Zexion
Kool Pajamas
/not signed
No one would ever quest again.
No one would ever quest again.
LifeInfusion
you need them as a counter for skill acquisition
Right now exp only goes to skillpoints after lvl20
Right now exp only goes to skillpoints after lvl20
Terra Xin
I'm sorry, I lost the point of your thread. You want to remove skill points altogether??
Then how will skills be obtained?
This is silly, I see more people suggesting that the gold costs be cut down on the skills that you can obtain, the issue with gaining skill points is of very little concern.
Then how will skills be obtained?
Quote:
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"Doesn't that mean a lv1 character can buy all their skills at the start?" (assuming you unlocked the skill elsewhere) If you got the gold for it. You're looking at ~10k just for your basic skills, and nearly 100k if you want to be flexible for PvP. |
lightblade
/signed for making skill buying cheaper
Age
There is always the PuPs out there in the store go and buy them.
Faer
Have you completely forgotten about the Prophecies-only players, who don't have uber-rewards for quests, and who need to farm skill points and gold if they want to buy skills rather than earn them from quests? Skill points serve a purpose, and therefore, in my opinion, they should not be removed.
pingu666
be nice to have cheaper skill purchase price...
gameshoes3003
/notsigned
Signet of Capture only gives 250 exp per each lvl you have. So capping an elite at lvl 1 gives absolutely very little exp. 250 infact.
That's a lot of sigs and elites to cap if you plan on lvling up that way.
Signet of Capture only gives 250 exp per each lvl you have. So capping an elite at lvl 1 gives absolutely very little exp. 250 infact.
That's a lot of sigs and elites to cap if you plan on lvling up that way.
Praetor
Way to fall for the trap.
If a.net still believes in the player skill, not time played, then by your arguements, clearly skill points are meant to be farmed if they are to be obtained. So, skill flexiblity comes at the cost of farming exp for skill points.
If anything, this would help Prophecies-only characters since they can obtain all the skills they want without having to farm exp/skill pts. So in this case, the lack of skill points holds them back more than the costs of 1k/skill.
Grind.
Grind.
I like coffee beans after you grind them, but I sure in hell don't like grinding for a skill point.
If a.net still believes in the player skill, not time played, then by your arguements, clearly skill points are meant to be farmed if they are to be obtained. So, skill flexiblity comes at the cost of farming exp for skill points.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Faer
Have you completely forgotten about the Prophecies-only players, who don't have uber-rewards for quests, and who need to farm skill points and gold if they want to buy skills rather than earn them from quests?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Omnidragon42
...a character can only become more skillful by training and "levelling"...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin
I now have 219 Elites on my warrior and 138 on my monk. I have never had a money issue, I spend ALOT of time farming skill points...
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I like coffee beans after you grind them, but I sure in hell don't like grinding for a skill point.
Faer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Praetor
If anything, this would help Prophecies-only characters since they can obtain all the skills they want without having to farm exp/skill pts. So in this case, the lack of skill points holds them back more than the costs of 1k/skill.
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Oh, and please don't lay "traps". This forum is for suggestions, not luring fellow members into what could turn into a flame war.
Praetor
Yeah, I lured you into a barbed trap stacked with a flame trap.
-.-
It's an point/argument trap.
There's a finite number of skill quests, and you have to buy the rest, especially for a secondary class. Since you played through the game normally, you didn't need to worry about skill points. However, it's likely your character doesn't have all the regular skills your original 2 classes. So, your character is limited to skill flexiblity by both skill pt count and cost, while canthan/elonian characters are flooded with skill points, so they're just limited by cost. Once any of the character types run out of skill quests, they have to buy the rest of their skills (assuming they want them all). With the info above, you should be able to tell who has an easier time obtaining skills.
-.-
It's an point/argument trap.
There's a finite number of skill quests, and you have to buy the rest, especially for a secondary class. Since you played through the game normally, you didn't need to worry about skill points. However, it's likely your character doesn't have all the regular skills your original 2 classes. So, your character is limited to skill flexiblity by both skill pt count and cost, while canthan/elonian characters are flooded with skill points, so they're just limited by cost. Once any of the character types run out of skill quests, they have to buy the rest of their skills (assuming they want them all). With the info above, you should be able to tell who has an easier time obtaining skills.
mqstout
Quote:
| Grind. I like coffee beans after you grind them, but I sure in hell don't like grinding for a skill point. |
legion_rat
/unsigned
skill points add balance thank you very much. the last thing i want to see is some noob with every skill imaginable. the skills and points i have i earned.
As did all of the other people here.
~the Rat of many skills~
skill points add balance thank you very much. the last thing i want to see is some noob with every skill imaginable. the skills and points i have i earned.
As did all of the other people here.
~the Rat of many skills~
blackbird71
/not signed
I think the skill point system is useful in that it requires people to actually play the game in order to gain more skills. Yes, it can be done via mindless farming, but not as fast, so it encourages involvement in quests. If the limiting factor is the cost of the skills, than the solution is not to remove skill points, but to lower the cost. Then skills are more attainable and skill points regain their meaning and value.
I think the skill point system is useful in that it requires people to actually play the game in order to gain more skills. Yes, it can be done via mindless farming, but not as fast, so it encourages involvement in quests. If the limiting factor is the cost of the skills, than the solution is not to remove skill points, but to lower the cost. Then skills are more attainable and skill points regain their meaning and value.
Sli Ander
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Praetor
Way to fall for the trap.
If a.net still believes in the player skill, not time played, then by your arguments, clearly skill points are meant to be farmed if they are to be obtained. So, skill flexiblity comes at the cost of farming exp for skill points. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Praetor
Since you played through the game normally, you didn't need to worry about skill points.
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I thought of lots of interesting arguments, but I'll settle for this one. Grind is only introduced by player choice. If you CHOOSE to unlock every skill for all professions, then theres a chance you'll hit grind. But you don't have to do that.
I played through normally. I then set back and bought every monk skill, unlocked every monk elite in prophecies. I unlocked all ranger skills and several elites for rangers. I then went to factions and unlocked all the monk skills which weren't repeats(and I didn't have to exclude them). I capped all elites for monk. At no point did I farm for points. I just used the ones I'd gathered playing normally.
But that's just my two cents
Terra Xin
Quote:
| Contradiction. Skill points are 'meant' to be farmed, but if you play through, you don't have to farm them. |
freekedoutfish
/notsigned
Im not understanding your logic on this.
You want to scrap skill points because you have too many to play with and you find it too easy to get more?
I wish I had 30-40 spare lying about.
Ive got dozens of elite skills I still need from factions and now Nightfall. I doubt im going to have enough for both.
Once you compelete alll the missions at master in a campaign, you have to rely on lvling up to get more. They soon run out.
Skill points exist to prevent everyone from just going out and capping every elite skill that exists. Their to limit you to only capping elite skills for just your main profession and possibly your main second profession.
Money isnt the issue. Gold is easy to come by and 1k is easy to make to get a signet of capture.
Skill points need to be increased or made easier to get, or made able to share amoung characters if anything.
Im not understanding your logic on this.
You want to scrap skill points because you have too many to play with and you find it too easy to get more?
I wish I had 30-40 spare lying about.
Ive got dozens of elite skills I still need from factions and now Nightfall. I doubt im going to have enough for both.
Once you compelete alll the missions at master in a campaign, you have to rely on lvling up to get more. They soon run out.
Skill points exist to prevent everyone from just going out and capping every elite skill that exists. Their to limit you to only capping elite skills for just your main profession and possibly your main second profession.
Money isnt the issue. Gold is easy to come by and 1k is easy to make to get a signet of capture.
Skill points need to be increased or made easier to get, or made able to share amoung characters if anything.
Thallandor
/not signed.
Gold NOT Skill points are the limiting factor for skill purchase now.
Remove gold requirement or allow the option of using more skillpoint to offset the gold requirement eg 2 SP for a skill instead of 1k+1SP for a skill from trainer.
Gold NOT Skill points are the limiting factor for skill purchase now.
Remove gold requirement or allow the option of using more skillpoint to offset the gold requirement eg 2 SP for a skill instead of 1k+1SP for a skill from trainer.
Dalimoor_Kalkire
/not signed for many reasons -
First off, 100k just to be flexable with one character in PvP? Hardly...You can have a lot of fun and experiement well under that amount until you bring in more money to purchase more skills.
Stop making it sound like a waste of time..honestly...It isn't just "bells and whistle" They don't have a level 21+ for a reason. Your EXP bar isn't just for show, it's for skill points. Bringing in skill points in PvE is a major aspect of it. Removing skill points from PvE is just asking for trouble. It keeps a player working towards something. If I could just take 200k out of my bank and buyout every secondary for my character then EXP would serve no purpose at all after level 20.
Again, without skill points people would just buyout every skill in a matter of minutes if they had that kind of cash. Hell, I'd do it right now. Skill points are here for a reason, and I doubt we'll see them go, nor should they.
I have never had an issue with money or skill points holding what I wanted to get to get skill-wise. I suggest you look into why it holds you back so badly that you want to alter it before demanding that this small snar in unlimited progress gets removed.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Praetor
"Doesn't that mean a lv1 character can buy all their skills at the start?" (assuming you unlocked the skill elsewhere) If you got the gold for it. You're looking at ~10k just for your basic skills, and nearly 100k if you want to be flexible for PvP. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Praetor
And what about the "level-up" every 12k exp? It's just sign of a virtual level obtained. Obviously your "real" level isn't show cause of a.net philosophy on player skill not play time. That "level-up" glow can remain, but it's just bells and whisles since a.net does not recognize lv21 and +.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Praetor
So what does this all mean? For a.net, make the skill trainer gold sink better. For us, remove the barrier keeping us from spending all our gold on skills.
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I have never had an issue with money or skill points holding what I wanted to get to get skill-wise. I suggest you look into why it holds you back so badly that you want to alter it before demanding that this small snar in unlimited progress gets removed.
Sophitia Leafblade
Ive played through the games with all mt chars and to be honest ive never had a problem with getting skill points even when i aquire all the primary and secondary profession skills for each of my chars. The bonus Xp for elite capping was a great little add in and stopped me ever having to skill point farm. Money is the biggest problem the 1k a skill adds up massivly and im sure ive spend 100s of platinium on skills.
Effendi Westland
/not signed
If you have so many unspent skillpoints, why need them removed?
I like it how more experienced characters are more flexible in their skill choices, and how newly created toons aren't.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Praetor
Skills points hold you back from nothing now, especially with the massive exp quests and 1-3 skills point for mission completion levels. Before you know it, you'll have 30,40,50 unspent skills points.
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I like it how more experienced characters are more flexible in their skill choices, and how newly created toons aren't.
Badger Muffin
/notsigned
for most of the reasons all rdy said
for most of the reasons all rdy said
Kayla Slays
/not signed
I admit that I was surprised when I ran out of skill points the other day! But now I have a reason to play the game a little and not just chase map and elite caps
Back to reality!
I admit that I was surprised when I ran out of skill points the other day! But now I have a reason to play the game a little and not just chase map and elite caps
Back to reality!
legion_rat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Faer
But then they wouldn't learn anything / as much. Prophecies players can earn their regular skills from quests, so they don't need to be spending money on regular skills, and can therefore save money and Skill Points to purchase Signets of Capture to obtain Elite Skills. In this way, they will not have to "farm" for their Skill Points until after they reach level 20 and have completed the storyline missions (not to mention all the various quests that they will probably be doing anyway, which are not farming, but still contribute to the Skill Point pool), as you seem to think. My first few characters through the game had no problems with obtaining the Skill Points and gold for Signets of Capture, as I played through the game normally (the way ArenaNet most probably intended us to), and didn't have to buy a single skill until well into the Southern Shiverpeaks (I was too lazy to do the quest for it).
Oh, and please don't lay "traps". This forum is for suggestions, not luring fellow members into what could turn into a flame war. |
~the Rat with points~
sykoone
If you play through the game, skill points shouldn't be an issue. And for those saying the 1k price per skill is a problem...well, if you can't make 1k in between earning skill points, then you're doing something wrong.
/notsigned
/notsigned
gabazieute
/not signed
I think the 1k/skill thing is more a barrier than the skill points.
As we don't have anymore quests that give you skill(s) as a reward, I think A.net should make skill a bit cheaper (500g/ea).
Especially as Nightfall armor are expensive and farming got reduced since 25/10
I think the 1k/skill thing is more a barrier than the skill points.
As we don't have anymore quests that give you skill(s) as a reward, I think A.net should make skill a bit cheaper (500g/ea).
Especially as Nightfall armor are expensive and farming got reduced since 25/10
birdfoot
/notsigned
I don' think this really needs changing at all.
I don' think this really needs changing at all.
Cow Tale
why are u all acting like 1k is a lot of gold? lol
=HT=Ingram
I look at it this way. On my 2 primary characters I have enough points to unlock an entire characters when a new chapter comes out... As long as I have enough gold on me to do it... New build have access to my unlocked skills on their heroes... So no problem... By the time another chapter comes along I have enough for it again...
If you want rid of them the solution is simple. delete your character... But if you do that, well. thats up to you. I like my 2 main characters being veterans... Heck Ingram of Haz has been around since the early beta days in its current form too... maybe an armor change here or there, but basically its the same build I have used all along...
I have the numerous other characters of course, but I always do each chapter 1st with my original ranger beast master, grab a mess of unlocks and have at least 1 character in every map point for assisting others. Then I go back and play with my others much more slowly.
I look at the Skill points as a reserve for future skill releases with chapters, and a quick way to unlock a series of Core skills on new professions as 2ndaries for making new PvP builds with them.
the 1k per skill is not unreasonable for OLD characters because they have their cores and previous unlocks to make use of already. New bubilds start at 100 gold and work their way up to 1k per... This is what give the new user a chance. And of course there is a HUGE collection of skills in Prophecies that are quest unlockable, if people choose to get it...
One thing I would like to see is a way to unlock more core skills for new characters at creation, IF they are already unlocked. Especially for new character primary professions. Or maybe a way to gain access to your unlocked skills on a new character for like 30k or something like that... Oh or maybe better do it as a large quest. Or mission. Like Mission to recover forgotten skills. Bla bla bla...
Its just a thought. Its not a great thought, but its A thought...
If you want rid of them the solution is simple. delete your character... But if you do that, well. thats up to you. I like my 2 main characters being veterans... Heck Ingram of Haz has been around since the early beta days in its current form too... maybe an armor change here or there, but basically its the same build I have used all along...
I have the numerous other characters of course, but I always do each chapter 1st with my original ranger beast master, grab a mess of unlocks and have at least 1 character in every map point for assisting others. Then I go back and play with my others much more slowly.
I look at the Skill points as a reserve for future skill releases with chapters, and a quick way to unlock a series of Core skills on new professions as 2ndaries for making new PvP builds with them.
the 1k per skill is not unreasonable for OLD characters because they have their cores and previous unlocks to make use of already. New bubilds start at 100 gold and work their way up to 1k per... This is what give the new user a chance. And of course there is a HUGE collection of skills in Prophecies that are quest unlockable, if people choose to get it...
One thing I would like to see is a way to unlock more core skills for new characters at creation, IF they are already unlocked. Especially for new character primary professions. Or maybe a way to gain access to your unlocked skills on a new character for like 30k or something like that... Oh or maybe better do it as a large quest. Or mission. Like Mission to recover forgotten skills. Bla bla bla...
Its just a thought. Its not a great thought, but its A thought...
Therlun
I dont understand why this suggestion gets so bad reactions.
If for all of you skillpoints are no problem at all and you always have enough of them, why have them in the game then?
Why are you so desperate to keep a feature that has no advantage at all, while it is a disadvantage to at least some (even if it is only a fraction of the players)?
Skillpoints add nothing to the game.
If for all of you skillpoints are no problem at all and you always have enough of them, why have them in the game then?
Why are you so desperate to keep a feature that has no advantage at all, while it is a disadvantage to at least some (even if it is only a fraction of the players)?
Skillpoints add nothing to the game.
Dalimoor_Kalkire
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Therlun
I dont understand why this suggestion gets so bad reactions.
If for all of you skillpoints are no problem at all and you always have enough of them, why have them in the game then? Why are you so desperate to keep a feature that has no advantage at all, while it is a disadvantage to at least some (even if it is only a fraction of the players)? Skillpoints add nothing to the game. |
My elementalist: Now, he has 43 skill points that are unused. So, you're saying that because I have so many, and can freely buy anything I want, we should scrap them altogether? Wrong... 43 isn't an unlimited amount, it holds me back, keeps me fighting for EXP. Why you say? Because there are far more then 43 skills I'm missing from my primary and various secondaries that I want.
Now, if I look in my bank box, I see a little over 700k. Now, without skill points I could take that out and buyout every primary, elite using capture signets, and every skill in the secondaries for this character as well without the hendering skill points. Where is the challenge of getting points to actually EARN the skills for yourself. It seems so many people want everything handed to them on a silver platter.
The skill points are there to prevent players from simply buying out every skill straight of the training areas. Would you rather see a day-old assassin come out of Shing Jea, go to Kaineng Center, buyout everything from his other farming characters, and have all the Faction skills in a matter of minutes? That isn't what this game is about, nor should be about.
When I went out and spend 60k in Capture Signets to work the "Skill Hunter" title on my monk, I ran out of points. "Well, time to build of EXP again to further my title," I said. <-- That is why they are around...To keep us striving for a better character, not to buyout everything in minutes from our farmers, or that gold we got off Ebay. So please, take off the tunnel vision and take another look before you deem something worthless.
mqstout
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dalimoor_Kalkire
Now, if I look in my bank box, I see a little over 700k.
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bigwig
Skill points force you to work with the skills you have. Its a teaching mechanism, it sort of forces people to you know, read the skill descriptions, play with a variety of skills, learn to play the game?