Favor system needs to be changed!

Just a friendly suggestion, but typically when you want to do a satyrical or sarcastic reply of someone's wording you want to actually make it satyrical or sarcastic.

What you do was essentially walk around in a dark room looking for a door. I don't understand it either.

No where in his post did he use "leet" speak, so the crux of your retort shouldn't include it either. Just future advice.

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More to the point and back on topic.

It's hardly an idiotic arguement. Supposedly this person "paid" soley for UW/FoW content (although, I'm sure it's probably "I paid for Guild Wars, did everything, so now all I do is UW/FoW runs." Hardly paid for, because I doubt anyone bought GW just to do UW/FoW.)

If his arguement is "Europe always has favor, I can't go to UW/FoW" then a logical reply is go to Europe.

It's a competative REWARD. You are not entitled to UW/FoW simply by being there. If you really want to pursue that slippry-slope a logical step would next say "I paid to be able to play in Lion's Arch, but all these enemies are beating me and I can't get there, ANet get rid of the monsters."

Think of it as a pre-requisite for a quest. You can't get through a portal in Cantha without doing X mission. You can't get to UW/FoW without having Favor. If your team can't get favor, it would be similar to your team not being able to beat a mission.

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The more I read these boards, the more I see "Give me, give me now! I deserve it."

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Edit:

Personally? I'd say that its part of the game. If it starts switching soon to America having favor, then why are you complaining? Its just statistics.

There's what, 4 regions which can gain favor? (Japan, Europe, America, Taiwan... I believe?) The basic assumption is the statistics will more or less balance out over time so each has similar favor amounts.

If Japan has favor for a month, Europe has it for the whole next month, etc., etc., then that is statistically the same as if it went DAY 1= Japan, DAY 2= Europe, DAY 3= America, DAY 4=Taiwan, DAY 5= Japan, etc...

If you don't like the fact that you don't have favor, or you don't have it "enough," then do something about it. Get active!

Don't expect stuff to come your way, try working for it once in a while. Get a group, try win HA or "motivate" others to win, or dance in a circle five times a minute until America has favor or whatever you feel you need to do other than demanding the game is rewrote to make it easier for you.

If you don't want to work for it, why do you think you should be entitled to it?

I am an American.
I have made plenty of friends in Europe.
I have a friend who moved back to Korea and plays with their Korean friends.
I have a few contacts in Japan I like to practice my Japanese with and hang around.

Someone please explain to me why I should have to leave behind my American server friends.... or why my foreign friends should have to leave behind their friends from their continents... in order to go into the Underworld or Fissure of Woe together?

It is ludicrous to expect those other people to switch to America. Servers are continental for a reason (well, a couple of them). I don't think my Korean friend will find a lot of Koreans on the American servers.

I would really, really like to play the high-end PvE with my friends; but, given the limited number of server transfers ((how do you even move from America to Korea, anyway? The menu offered to me when I try to change servers is a choice between American and Europe)), I have to remain in American and he in Korea.

Despite the international nature of the Internet, what we have is a system that prevents the crossing of multiple boundaries. Best I can do is go to Korea; but then, how will I play with my Euro buddies?

Justification please.

For the people suggesting that PvE areas be controlled by PvP matches, I'm interested to see what you'd have to say if this was a two way street. I propose that every time Shiro or Litch is killed, a random player in halls from a different region gets instantly killed.

I wouldn't say it is Europe that has favour most of the time it is more spead out but I have noticed America is getting less and less of it.It could be the 6vs6 or that American players are playing in GvG or TA and possibly more in AB.

Unless by "there" you mean Europe, which seems to be the crux of your argument...


Changing servers changes nothing. Remember the bad old days, when America had favour 80% of the time; Europe hardly ever? "America always has favour, I can't go to UW/FoW!" "Switch to America you noob."

It doesn't change the fact that in either case, people are being REWARDED for what OTHER PEOPLE are doing. I don't know about the rest of you but that's not how my dictionaries define the word. Saying you should switch servers is just resigning to a dumb conceit.

Complaining? I'm not complaining, because of the simple fact that it doesn't matter for me whether Europe or America has favor, I can still access UW/FoW either way. This does not hold true for everyone.
As for "getting active" go read my post again. Would you like to explain to how I'm supposed to hold Halls and go play in UW/FoW?

Actually by "there" I was implying ToA.

Please note, although I'm listing it as an option, I am not advocating server-hopping just to access less than 5% of the game. It was just an obvious answer to a question posed.

Reward can be a fickle word honestly, where the prize does not need to be paralleled to the effort put forth. A "door prize" for instance is a reward (ranging from small to significant) for simply being X person to do Y activity.

In this sense, the Y can simply be membership to X server. Or it could be actually winning favor for your server.

Often enough in life equal rewards may not have equal effort required. For all the college students out there, I'll use the example of scholarships.

Some scholarships require a LOT of effort, but then at the same time, you could get one with the same monetary value simply for meeting X criterea.

So whether you won HA yourself, or you simply belong to the sever that did, you get the same reward. It's a prize, much like getting a gold or green, its not constant and it should not be expected.

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EDIT:

Damn people post fast!

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I've never personally done it, but I'm pretty sure after you win HA you can move your character to a different location within one of the three continents, right? Your character is not required to stay in HA. Also, I've never been kicked out of FoW/UW when my server has lost favor.

Maybe I'm missing something, but to me it seems your answer is obvious. Do one, then go to the other.

Right, because that works... Oh wait... you have to hold halls 4x in a row. Once you do that, if you leave, you leave an empty spot in your team, and then Europe will take favor back in a matter of 8 mins. So....going off that... you would have to zone/logoff and goto ToA with your character, THEN bring together a worthy team of good pvers and then decide entrance fee etc etc, get keys, 1 if rdy all, etc; ALL IN 8 MINUTES? That would be a disaster unless you were in a guild that was always ready to goto FoW or UW, and most people are NOT. So... that notion is RETARDED.

/signed

CHANGE IT.

When America or Korea had favor ~80% of the time and Europe rarely held it, the Euros complained, whined, pleaded and begged. To which Anet replied "tough, go get better at Tombs and take it for yourself." Sorry to break it to you folks, but the favor system ain't changing just because you pitch a temper tantrum. FoW/UW/Urgoz/Deep are all optional "elite" content. They are not fundamental portions of the game and you are in no way "entitled" to entry into them.

Don't forget to have it announced system-wide every time it happens...

Other than that, fantastic idea, it'd be worth keeping the idiotic favor system just for the screams of agony that'd come from the PVP camp.

access 24/7 would be much nicer... go whenever you want, and ecto prices nice and low. yay.

Its funny how we only whine when an imbalanced system effects us. Where were we during all this time that Korea, Japan, and Taiwan have been denied access to FoW and UW? I agree that the current system is kind of broken and that some sort of change should be implemented. I've suggested the idea of giving free entrace to those with favor and charging the normal 1K fee for those that don't have favor. I mean, think about it. If you really had favor of the Gods, then why would you need to pay them 1K to enter? My current solution to the dilema is using one of my other accounts on Euro servers. That way I can farm FoW to my hearts content all day long while America doesn't have favor.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Favor System and I hope Anet doesn't change it. To think that Anet "owes" you access to these areas just because you bought the game is ludicrous. I suppose they owe you a perfect Crystalline Sword too....lol.

I see WoW in your future.

Actually back when it was nearly always America or Korea with favor and Europe rarely got it there were a lot of Americans arguing that the system made no sense. This isn't a new discussion by any stretch of the imagination, and certainly not one brought on only by America (and the rest of the world outside of Europe) rarely getting favor.

Fair enough...

Just because the system is poorly implemented, doesn't mean it should be.

Let's say the Gods' Realms are Cedar Point. You really want to go to Cedar Point. But whoops! Too bad... The only people who get to go to Disneyland are the ones whose home state is America's winningest college football team. What does Cedar Point have to do with college football? Duh, it's a prize. Let's say you're from Delaware. For the sake of argument, let's also say that Delaware isn't exactly the winningest state in the Union (I picked it for no real reason - not because I actually know anything about college football). But you really, really want to go to Cedar Point! You pore over the bill of rights but it doesn't say a thing about equal access to Cedar Point. What do you do? Move to South Carolina? Start your own college and build your own national championship team? Complain your ass off?

So because people complained about an unfair system, and nothing happened, they should stop complaining? I don't see why that should happen... Plus, when has ANet ever directly said anything about the issue? They probably have, but I can't recall anything at the moment.

I suppose I should go ahead and welcome you to the Internet, because it's apparent you've never been here before. Overdone "leetspeak" is a common method to display the idiocy of a statement--one I don't usually use, but it seemed appropriate at the time. I'm sorry you disagree.

Or, you know, to see if other people feel the same, and perhaps a change to the system is in order? It's not like Anet has never ever listened to players before.

Slippery slopes have no place in a rational debate.

There's nothing wrong with having a prerequisite to be able to do high-level content. There's a lot wrong with that prerequisite being something completely unrelated to the high-level content in question.

America used to have favor constantly, the way Europe does now. I said it was unfair then, and I say it's unfair now. It's a needless and useless system.

Add Korea to that list. That assumption is false--there is no balance. Europe dominates, America a distant second, and the other three rarely, if ever, take favor.

This is also an idiotic argument. You, a heavy PvEer, want to go visit the Underworld. Oh, you can't--you have to go get good enough at PvP not only to take Halls, but to hold it five times in a row. Not interested? Tough!

Clearly an unfair--and a needlessly so--situation.

I was waiting for someone to compare this to real life. The difference between real life and a game--this is a game. Rules can be put into place and enforced in order to make sure it's fair.

When the euros complained Anet's response was the favor system was "working as designed". I don't recall if Gaile, Alex, etc posted that type of response or if that was the canned email response some of the complainers received when they sent their complaints in.

I didn't say you should stop complaining. I love how people read beyond what I write and make assumptions. It seems to happen a lot and it makes me concerned for the reading comprehension level of the average poster. I said that they won't change it just because you are complaining. The only reason they'll see fit to change is if they deem it to be "imbalanced" in some way, and in a year and a half they haven't seen fit to declare it imbalanced or game-breaking such that they see the need to alter the way it functions.

As for PvPers going to take back favor and then go UW or FoW, yes they do. I've been on teams that "handed off" the win to another team so that we could map out and go to UW/FoW. I've also been on the team that received the hand off so the holding team could leave. Just because you aren't capable of doing it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Also, it would take four wins for another region to take favor from us, so that equates to at least 20 minutes to get your team and go.

I understand where you're going with this, but the example is over-complicated to the model.

First of all, the prize and method of obtaining the prize are more related than a random point and a sport (gaining the Gods' attention in HA then in turn means they allow you into their realms.)

Secondly, although your example has several more "teams" than necissary and I believe this could be used as an exaggeration to the point. If there was only four states with four teams it doesn't look as "impossible."

Third, "starting your own college and forming a national championship team" is not to scale with any of the other elements. Again a perhaps accidential case of exaggeration to prove the point.

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While I understand where you're going, for something like this its probably best to keep it either to scale or stay with abstracts.

You have four teams, and their fans, whom are all hopeful of being able to go to a certain location upon their victory. Competitions are frequent, and varied in difficulty to the point luck even plays a significant role.

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Given the football analogy, something just hit me.

Using the ProBowl as an example. Here we have a famous, well-watched, coveted and status-worthy competition.

No player needs to go to the ProBowl to be the winner for that season, just as no GW character needs to go to FoW/UW to beat the game. This is something extra, for continued enjoyment and a reward for those who show excellence (and a reward for fans whom get to watch their favorite players as well.)

If certain players are always showing excellence in abilities and are consecutively returning, it is not their fault, nor the fault of any officials, coaches or rules-makers that the other players can not attend. If a player wants to get make it here, they have to work for it. Otherwise, if everyone was able to attend, it wouldn't be the PRO bowl, it would just be another season of football games.

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Let's get down to the heart of the matter and stop mixing words.

FoW/UW is an elitist reward for excellence. It is NOT a required component of the game (similarly as easter eggs are not required, but appreciated and at times coveted parts of other video games.)

It is a reward, shared with those from similar backgrounds (servers).

If everyone automatically had access to it, it would not be an award, and it would certainly not be elitest or status-worthy, it would simply be additional content (e.g. Sorrow's Furnance).

Also, when seeing the word "elitest" please do not knee-jerk to "arrogant." While the two are often synonomous, they are not the same. To use a reference from grade school, this is more of a "Honor Roll students get to go on a field trip" rather than "Teacher's Pet gets to feel superior to everyone."

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We can group this with Elite (there's that word again...) Missions in Cantha. Whichever Guild/Alliance controls that respective town has access to it (reward for excellence) but they are likewise able to "ferry" others along (in a similar method as all persons on the same server are allowed into the Gods' Realms.)

If said Alliance does not wish to ferry others, that is their choice, their name is on the door. They won the reward. Or, if another alliance gains control and they are not ferrying, it is a function of the game.

If you are dissatisfied with your inability to get into FoW/UW it is up to you to try and change that. It is the same as being told "no" to a querey of possible ferrying.

You want in? Gain control of the town. You want in? Get favor.

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These areas are supposed to have a competitive and elitist feel to it. While yes, we might all want in, we may not be able to get it. Only so many are allowed at the top of the pyramid.

I like the favor system but it should be changed a bit. Europe and america are always fighting for favor while korea and the other never have it wich is rly unfair.

I fail to see the problem here.

Be a great marketing tool for ANET I think. Put right on the game box that some areas of the game may be inaccessible due to your region of play.

I mean I sure would love more games to have area that for reasons beyond my control that I cannot access.

Oh I agree, its often used in such situations. The same as "omglolz!111!111one11" or what have you is used to over-emphasize someone's reaction. Still, as a reader of a rational arguement, when I see that, it pulls focus away from the point and makes me associate the debator with a more child-like mentality. I never said it was a "illegal" approach in any means, just not a good one to my view.

Its a reward to a whole server for competetative play. ANet has said their are not planning to change Elite missions in Cantha, nor this. (Annecdotal for now, I'm pressed for time so not going to gather quotes.)

I'm glad you agree, but I was referencing a previous arguement and mind-set towards those opposed to the current Favor method.

You fight a battle of champions to gain the attention of the Gods, and as a result, said Gods allow you into their realm. How is that unrelated?

Those more skilled/consistent at HA get the related reward, that's not unfair, that's cause and effect.

Ah Korea, I knew I forgot one. Thanks!

It only takes eight players to win HA (or one/two and Heros/hench, but I digress). I know each server has at least eight players. From the results of the GW Ladder it seems that the better players in said servers simply choose to do other things than HA with their time.

Those servers have several options. Switch servers; while yes this puts them at a disadvantage in language and friends, they do gain their access to non-essential content. Form a team, or grab hero/hench. Or finally, not have access to non-essential content because they don't choose to persue it.

If exclusive content is made, obviously people will be excluded. While this may be "unfair" it is not mechanically or systematically wrong.

If you are unwilling to do the work, why do you feel you should be privy to the rewards?

You, a heavy videogamer want to play videogames and eat food, etc. Oh, you can't--your last electricity bill is two months over due, you have to not only look for a job, but work their too! Not interested? Tough.

Rules CAN be put in to place, not NEED to be. If ANet wanted to make an elitest (remember, don't knee-jerk to arrogant!) and exclusive area, why can't they?

Has anyone considered that for the sake of the story line overall the favour system is correct?

No, I'm not going to explain what I mean, I lost my ability to put it into english! But someone please look at the overall storyline and tell me how stupid it would be to have the 'favour of the gods' all the time.

I agree, it's unnecessary, and I rarely use it--and in retrospect, I shouldn't have used it when I did.

Actually, a month or so after Factions was released, Anet did say that they were going to implement alternate entry for Elite missions. This never happened--I assume the rampant ferrying that occurred led them to believe it was no longer a problem that needed to be addressed.

The flavor works, yes. That doesn't make it fair or right.

The reward isn't related. That's the crux. Succeeding at high level PvP absolutely should not influence the ability for other people to access high-level PvE.

Six, now, though I see your point. Still, many people have little to no desire to do PvP at all, much less HA. They just want to visit the Fissure or Underworld, but they can't due to the entirely unfair system that is in place.

So drop the exclusive part. I don't see the problem with making it open to everyone.

You said: People complained. You added: Nothing changed. So I assumed you meant there was no point complaining. Whoops?

It was mostly a piece of crap. But hey, hyperbole sure is fun. And since you understand where I'm going, I guess it could be called successful.

Aren't there five regions? America, Europe, Korea, Japan, and Taiwan? That isn't really important, but still...

Well, it is an exaggeration, obviously. But at the same time, gaining access to the Gods' realms isn't some five minute job. You need a team, and you need to fight the whole way up. Then you need to hold on for four rounds. This takes time. Then, and only then, can you actually go back, get a team together, and go to the UW/Fow. The point is that you're looking at several hours here.

The main difference between football and GW is that by winning the ProBowl, players don't earn anything for other people, and I don't get rewarded if the local boys trounce the neighbours.

Yes, it is a reward for excellence. But it's one person's excellence and another person's reward. That's my issue.

Yes, it is exclusive. But why? Why should one person's (well, six people's) actions determine what unrelated people's actions are limited to?

Again, they won something. But who did they win it for? Themselves? A bunch of other people they couldn't care less about?

Time to call it a night, I'm afraid. Unfortunately, that means no time for proofreading. So forgive the errors I'm sure I made.

Naw the favor system is to encourage participation in the mostly reward less PvP part of the game. Without it not many would care to go there at all. By having your Region Win more often you get favor of gods and allow you and your allies and region to go to UW and Fissure. There you reap your rewards for wining in HoH. Well thats just my opinion.

I always felt the Vault needed the 2 avatars there to offer access to UW and Fissure for free if the team wanted to go... All be it that would mean PvP players would get to go to UW and Fissure. so maybe thats not a great idea, but its a thought... The vault is so boring waiting around for the next teams to get there... it defiantly needs something... ANYTHING...

Favor System is obsolete. HAers dont play it for the favor anyway.


Solution: open underworld at all times, remove favor system from HA and remove the HoH winner global spam message ( who cares if Teh Wammo
Pve's team won a battle in HoH and keeps the favor of the gods for Kazakhstan?). everybody paid for the the content and there is only limited server change allowed for each account.

The Vault?

The US does get Faction eventually, but its so late at night that it doesnt matter. I have to get up and go to work, I have things to do, I cant be up at 2:00 AM waiting to go on UW farms
I love Alaska BTW

Sounds like its working well to me. People want favor so they are trying to get it.

If there was no bonus to having favor then people wouldn't want it as bad and it would feel like you were accomplishing as much when you won it.

/beats on dead horse once more.

PvE reward/area access should never have had anything to do with PvP at all in the first place.

Blame the dumb person who suggested this when GW was made who though this would enhance the "Wars of the World(region servers)" concept via granting the Favor of the Gods for the region for winning HoH X_X. Another one of those PvP is PvE endgame BS concepts imho.

I love the arguement of 'I PAID FOR THIS SO I SHOULD GET IT'. Actually, all you paid for is the access key and the box it came in. If you can't get into FoW 24/7, that's tough. Do something else.

as a favor deprived American I myself can safely say we dont need a enw favor system. We just need to get our s*** together and start winning halls and begin to use builds other then starburst, iway, and dual smite. Us Americans are all about cookie cutter builds, we suck. We cant go around complaining, i mean look at Japan, Taiwan, China, and Korea. Those places never have favor! Quit the moaning and groaning and go win halls if you want it.

Favor definitely needs to be changed. I mean, I can't visit the Temple of the Ages without those shiny god statue graphics blinding my sleep-deprived eyes anymore, no matter what time I log on.

It's 5:22 am over here, why the hell do we still have favor?

Spoiler:

Change your account to European or play more PvP.

Fixed.

The argument that UW/FOW is a reward for excellence and an elite area for those people who excel is complete BS. If that were true then only those who won Halls would be able to access those regions, not everyone in their regional server. Halls isnt like a prerequisite quest to doing UW/FOW-its a separate part of the game for those who like competetive play, whereas FOW/UW are areas that are high-level PVE areas for those that like a different sort of play style/challenge. Making victory by other people a prerequisite to enter the other is ridiculous. Itd be like if only guilds whose faction controlled the most territory (luxon/kurzick) determined who was allowed into Halls in the first place.. Right now its a reward for having the most HA guilds in your region and thus having favor most of the time. Should America/Korea/Taiwan/Japan be punished by having content denied because they dont choose to PvP or because there simply arent enough PvPers in those regions to be able to hold favor? The system is unbalanced and unfair and does need to change.

Its the usual.

PPl create a game, then believe ppl around the world that mostly have no knowledge of each other, will be able, by some miracle, work for common goals, just because if they are playing the same game they must have the same/similar goals.

Favor was supposed to work, if you were actually be able to work as a Guild, ie, have a PvP section, a GvG section, an AB section, an PvE farming section, that could help PvP players unlock skills/items and/or support them with weapons/armor.

You will be lucky to find a guild that actually have active members that play PvE together, much less one that have a TS server and the logistics to actually compete in such diverse environments.

Guilds with that kind of capability are extremly rare, because is extremly hard to unite ppl that dont know each other/have different cultural backgrounds/ different ages, to work as a goddamn ELITE ARMY, to make that happen.

And how the hell do you find these ppl? By random chance? By saying "Who the hell is gosu/hardcore?" in the chat?

Im from Europe, so I dont have this problem now, but I can usually see some specific guilds like KFC/MATH and others from America and, yes, even from Japan or Korea get favour, and I bet they have farmer groups ready to go in the minute they get favour.

Expecting this on a large scale is a clear indication of being out of touch with reality.

You can reply, "look, some can, go and do it for yourself". Sure, but first just try it and do it yourself as I bet you are just reaping the rewards from others work.

Sure make it more difficult for those that not have the favour, make their drops be worse, make the enemies in there be stronger, allow only entrance for small periods, whatever.

PPl are not asking for everything for free or whatnot, they just want a chance, as small is it may be, to without depending on other ppl, do all things in the game, because if its only for some, there is no point in being there. I mean, even an harcore gamer that spent 12 hours per day playing can get into Fow if their area dont have favour.

The game is also supposed to be played with human parties, but most likely you have played a significant portion of the game with parties of henchies or with a good number of them in those parties. But you can still do prety much all Cooperative Mission with henchies/heroes, no matter how difficult they are.

And the Continental Areas arent balanced. Europe is by far the largest, specially because they have an active Time Window larger than most, because they attract some Middle East/Asian countries and Europe have enough of a pro-gamer/hardcore attitude. Korea is just small in terms of playing hours time. Taiwan and Japan are even worse, as they have less of a pro-gamer mindset than korea.

America could be huge, but no to small pro-gamer community, and Central and South America dont contribute much.

Am I the only one that thinks that this system has no problem?
Look, its that simple.
Its an elite content.
Its elite for a REASON.
People at HoH fight for favour AND (notice the big and in caps) fame. The winning HoH team adquires access to the elite area. The team and his server. Hey, if you are complaining that this is leeching off the work of others, just ask them to make only the winning team get access then. Dont whine.
Point is. Its an elite area. It is INTENDED to be hard to enter.
Damn.
Im amazed how people arent bitching how you have to do quests to finish the game.

Im not complaining because i have to progress through the game to lvl up etc, thats a completely unrelated argument. the point is that PvP shouldnt determine what you can and cannot access in PvE. That would be like making it so that if your guild leader hadnt ascended you couldnt do Halls-your ability to access PvP content being reliant on someone elses achievement in PvE.

I supported another topic about this subject so I might aswell support this one.

The fact that PVP play is needed to unlock PVE content is a contradiction that goes beyond me.

It also increases racism.

Oh btw I'm on euro server so I don't complain, I can get in every day and I don't PVP. So far the argument to pvp for it.

I just think about my fellow gamer in Japan or Taiwan who would like to enjoy these two wonderful areas too. That's something else than some of you egoistic players who just think about yourselves and come with the argument to pvp for it. A real pve player doesn't give a dam about the pvp part of the game.

Turn it around and just imagine, what if a pvp player can only access halls if he/she talks with the fow crafter, time and time again. So we can say pve for it noob. Would be fun no?

lol some of these arguments are so dumb...

some ppl just want everything on a silver tablet
"hey i paid for all content"...i dont want to play through all guildwars to get the best greens and best armor please give me everything at the start ?!

thats what most people say with their statements...indirectly.

just take it as it is.

FOW / UW are special / elite content (just like the elite missions in factions)

just that there is no ally "holding" a city that grants access to UW / FOW

here it is the whole nation / country holding it ...


but anyways just another crying thread

voting for -> *close*