I love the fact that monsters now behave more like player characters by running when their health gets low.
BUT...
Anet needs to fix the aggro. There's nothing worse than having the monster reduced to and handful of health points, only to have them take off running into another mob.
This has happened to me on numerous occasions. I spend energy taking a group down to nothing, only to have them aggro all their buddies. On the journey to Nightfall Jahia, mobs aggro way to easily and they aren't spaced out enough to finish taking down one group, before the runners bring another group (or two, or five) right down on top of you.
Even with the flag system, your heroes and henchies will still pursue unless you set them to avoid combat, in which case you aren't going to win there at all.
Highly frustrating.
My Biggest Gripe with NF
stamenflicker
Beckii-Chan!
The enemy Ai can get incredibly annoying in Torment, Attacking one "Arm of Corruption" or whatever, can end up luring the entire Explorable Area with it's weird, erratic movements once you get it's health low enough.
stamenflicker
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Originally Posted by Beckii-Chan!
The enemy Ai can get incredibly annoying in Torment, Attacking one "Arm of Corruption" or whatever, can end up luring the entire Explorable Area with it's weird, erratic movements once you get it's health low enough.
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CyberMesh0
And if he's not plain moving erratically, he's just plain running across the entire map anyway to get away from you, which is a pain in the arse without the aggro issue.
Beckii-Chan!
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Originally Posted by stamenflicker
And to add insult to injury, if you don't pursue him he will use the skill to copy himself, which seems to only trigger when his health gets low. So you are sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Cuthroat Dibbler
To change the AI as they have done then add the Call to Torment (uninteruptable AFAIK) HAS to be one of the biggest wind ups of the year in game design
beanerman_99
The AI seems to have some kind of super "alert" mode on them. Especially the Kouran(sp?) guys. I thought that I was NOT supposed to aggro a monster or bad guy UNLESS they were in my aggro bubble that I see on the radar. Well, those Kouran guys can be a good 1/4 inch away from my bubble and all the sudden, here they come at a dead run straight at me. What gives?
And what makes them come running when they are out of my aggro bubble BUT it I attack the Spirit of Infuriating Heat they seem to know what I am doing, like they are still attached to the Spirit somehow, and come running back at full speed.
And the flag system doesn't seem to keep my Heroes in place. I drop the flag waaaay back from a mob, I go forward to pull them, and OMG here comes Jin at full speed to try and "help" me?!?! I thought she was supposed to stay at the flag?!?
I also agree that the half dead monster running across the map like a chicken with his head cut off is just plain stupid. It does seem that Anet needs to tweak this in some ways.
And what makes them come running when they are out of my aggro bubble BUT it I attack the Spirit of Infuriating Heat they seem to know what I am doing, like they are still attached to the Spirit somehow, and come running back at full speed.
And the flag system doesn't seem to keep my Heroes in place. I drop the flag waaaay back from a mob, I go forward to pull them, and OMG here comes Jin at full speed to try and "help" me?!?! I thought she was supposed to stay at the flag?!?
I also agree that the half dead monster running across the map like a chicken with his head cut off is just plain stupid. It does seem that Anet needs to tweak this in some ways.
WasAGuest
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Originally Posted by stamenflicker
I love the fact that monsters now behave more like player characters by running when their health gets low.
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What I have seen is mobs running away when they are called as a target; mobs fleeing when "run at" (there's a great video of that happening around here); mobs fleeing when hit once; mobs fleeing off compass and never returning to battle (a problem in some Factions missions when fighting against the clock); heroes enter into a perma-kite mode and mobs chase them, once the mobs are then hit, they enter into perma-flee while perma-aggro locked onto the kiting hero, which now means the hero is perma-kiting while being followed by mobs who no longer attack/cast or anything... just follow the heores while other heroes are following the mobs... in other words it looks like a congo-line or AI playing ring-a-round-the-rosy.
icedragon981
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Originally Posted by beanerman_99
The AI seems to have some kind of super "alert" mode on them. Especially the Kouran(sp?) guys. I thought that I was NOT supposed to aggro a monster or bad guy UNLESS they were in my aggro bubble that I see on the radar. Well, those Kouran guys can be a good 1/4 inch away from my bubble and all the sudden, here they come at a dead run straight at me. What gives?
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It's not really a problem, just an annoyance at this low level in the game, but taking my Paragon through the Realm of Torment (Especially in the Gates of Madness at the portal part) it's very hard to keep my heros/hench from chasing after a demon and aggroing titans/margonites/more demons and sometimes ends in us dying due to over-aggro. *sigh*
-.-
Quote:
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Originally Posted by beanerman_99
The AI seems to have some kind of super "alert" mode on them. Especially the Kouran(sp?) guys. I thought that I was NOT supposed to aggro a monster or bad guy UNLESS they were in my aggro bubble that I see on the radar. Well, those Kouran guys can be a good 1/4 inch away from my bubble and all the sudden, here they come at a dead run straight at me. What gives?
And what makes them come running when they are out of my aggro bubble BUT it I attack the Spirit of Infuriating Heat they seem to know what I am doing, like they are still attached to the Spirit somehow, and come running back at full speed. And the flag system doesn't seem to keep my Heroes in place. I drop the flag waaaay back from a mob, I go forward to pull them, and OMG here comes Jin at full speed to try and "help" me?!?! I thought she was supposed to stay at the flag?!? |
The reason why Jin would go running up is maybe because she's on Offensive mode, meaning she would attack the same target as you no matter how far the enemy is. Had to learn that the hard way.
Andisa Kalorn
I had a fun game of chase with some corsairs the other day on noob island. The healer would run, at full health, when i went for him. People say, well just use cripple... I had cripple... and never got close enough to use it because I was a melee character. So basically, now we have to take a character with ranged slowdowns and HOPE they use it on the right target at the right time just to avoid this stupidity of running in circles or halfway across the map? And if the game's supposed to be more like pvp... well in pvp I don't see densely packed mobs of lvl 28 monsters that the opposing foe can flee to. This is not a "challenge" it's just very very frustrating. And frustrating = not fun.
Bale_Shadowscar
Enemies Luring eh?
Good on them.
Good on them.
Halfthought
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Originally Posted by beanerman_99
The AI seems to have some kind of super "alert" mode on them. Especially the Kouran(sp?) guys. I thought that I was NOT supposed to aggro a monster or bad guy UNLESS they were in my aggro bubble that I see on the radar. Well, those Kouran guys can be a good 1/4 inch away from my bubble and all the sudden, here they come at a dead run straight at me. What gives?
And what makes them come running when they are out of my aggro bubble BUT it I attack the Spirit of Infuriating Heat they seem to know what I am doing, like they are still attached to the Spirit somehow, and come running back at full speed. And the flag system doesn't seem to keep my Heroes in place. I drop the flag waaaay back from a mob, I go forward to pull them, and OMG here comes Jin at full speed to try and "help" me?!?! I thought she was supposed to stay at the flag?!? I also agree that the half dead monster running across the map like a chicken with his head cut off is just plain stupid. It does seem that Anet needs to tweak this in some ways. |
manitoba1073
thats ok i have to put up with devona running off attacking groups for no reason.
aspectacle
You can pull groups now by wanding any spirits they put down. So, if an Arm of Torment puts down a QZ, you can wand it to pull the group. 
I've noticed that Jin is a little enthusiastic too. All of my henchies are on guard. Always.
My only real complaint with the AI now, is that if you leave the argo circle and run away, you never fully break agro with that group. Basically if their red dot appears on your radar any time in the next 5 minutes, they start to come for you. Yuk.
I've noticed that Jin is a little enthusiastic too. All of my henchies are on guard. Always.
My only real complaint with the AI now, is that if you leave the argo circle and run away, you never fully break agro with that group. Basically if their red dot appears on your radar any time in the next 5 minutes, they start to come for you. Yuk.
Darcy
I think the new mob AI has made them play more like humans (luring & chasing), thus making it more difficult to do quests with hero/hench parties. You need real people to split your party correctly; some to chase the runners, some to protect casters.
scorpio 698
/agree
When i was playing my dervish on noob island once, i chased a corsair something-or-other so far that i actually broke aggro with the rest of his group.
When i was playing my dervish on noob island once, i chased a corsair something-or-other so far that i actually broke aggro with the rest of his group.
lunksunkunk
Another example of something that wasnt broken, but they decided to "fix" anyways. And fix they did, since instead of targetting the botters, they took the easy way and just messed w/ 98% of the community that wasnt botters and forced them to deal with it. How childish. Calling this "fun", if i wanted to play tag, ill go play CS, at least i shoot for the head from 100 feet away. Now that we cant even depend on the aggro-circle for any form of safety, shouldnt our weapons span the whole radar then?
w/e This isnt that until u realized that the aggro-system was also screwed for runners and chestrunners. When the hell did bots chestrun or run period?
w/e This isnt that until u realized that the aggro-system was also screwed for runners and chestrunners. When the hell did bots chestrun or run period?
Young Hero
Absolutlely-this is the worst change in AI ever.
It's not fun running/chasing after targets.Not fun at all, gets very old VERY FAST
It's not fun running/chasing after targets.Not fun at all, gets very old VERY FAST
Xiypher
Carry a D/- at all times, make him spam cripple.
I have found that some groups will consider a spirit, or the location of a recently killed spirit to be a hostile zone, IE ive aggro'd a spirit to soon see 5 ppl running from off my radar, i have also watched a spirit expire out of aggro, then walked to it, and again 5 ppl came running.
Ive found that if you have an enemy dervish that runs off... let him go. He'll either come back or youll fight him when you fight the next mob, the worst he can do is heal. But if the target is soft enough to run, hes soft enough to drop almost isntantly.
I have found that some groups will consider a spirit, or the location of a recently killed spirit to be a hostile zone, IE ive aggro'd a spirit to soon see 5 ppl running from off my radar, i have also watched a spirit expire out of aggro, then walked to it, and again 5 ppl came running.
Ive found that if you have an enemy dervish that runs off... let him go. He'll either come back or youll fight him when you fight the next mob, the worst he can do is heal. But if the target is soft enough to run, hes soft enough to drop almost isntantly.
milias
Quote:
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Originally Posted by stamenflicker
I love the fact that monsters now behave more like player characters by running when their health gets low.
BUT... Anet needs to fix the aggro. There's nothing worse than having the monster reduced to and handful of health points, only to have them take off running into another mob. This has happened to me on numerous occasions. I spend energy taking a group down to nothing, only to have them aggro all their buddies. On the journey to Nightfall Jahia, mobs aggro way to easily and they aren't spaced out enough to finish taking down one group, before the runners bring another group (or two, or five) right down on top of you. Even with the flag system, your heroes and henchies will still pursue unless you set them to avoid combat, in which case you aren't going to win there at all. Highly frustrating. |
Eilsys
The worst part about this change is when you're playing with other *players*. You can order your henchies pretty quick (need to set all heroes to guard or avoid, cuz agressive/attack makes them run back in), but people I play with who aren't any good won't run fast enough, no matter how much I spam it.
Personally, I think the worst area in the game is the Echovald Forest, when you're trying to cap Boon Signet. >
The rest of Factions isn't so bad, but Nightfall is a lot like that.
Personally, I think the worst area in the game is the Echovald Forest, when you're trying to cap Boon Signet. >
The rest of Factions isn't so bad, but Nightfall is a lot like that.
Beckii-Chan!
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Originally Posted by Eilsys
The worst part about this change is when you're playing with other *players*. You can order your henchies pretty quick (need to set all heroes to guard or avoid, cuz agressive/attack makes them run back in), but people I play with who aren't any good won't run fast enough, no matter how much I spam it.
Personally, I think the worst area in the game is the Echovald Forest, when you're trying to cap Boon Signet. > The rest of Factions isn't so bad, but Nightfall is a lot like that. |
The Hand Of Death
Snaring has a use in PvE now. Bring a snare and use it on a running enemy, it is useful.
Thallandor
I notice this as well. Some of the patrol paths stagger over each other and unless you take a mental note of all the patrol paths (when you get wiped enough times for a mission you will!) and make extreme pulls to aviod cross patrol aggroing.
Call of Torment (CoT), When i first entercountered it i felt that it was sort of a time sink if your party setup cant spike fast enough. CoT on the Arm of insanity (rangers) can easily wipe your party with barrage spams if you dont have a prot monk in your party. One of the ways to overcome this is to get the lightbringer title, and get the lightbringer gaze skill. Focus fire on the target and when it starts to use CoT, use lightbringer gaze to finish it off. conditions/degens works well on those demons as well.
Call of Torment (CoT), When i first entercountered it i felt that it was sort of a time sink if your party setup cant spike fast enough. CoT on the Arm of insanity (rangers) can easily wipe your party with barrage spams if you dont have a prot monk in your party. One of the ways to overcome this is to get the lightbringer title, and get the lightbringer gaze skill. Focus fire on the target and when it starts to use CoT, use lightbringer gaze to finish it off. conditions/degens works well on those demons as well.
MaglorD
I've played through the whole of NF on my dervish, warrior and paragon with heroes/henchies.
Also completed with my ranger with some pugging at the endgame.
Haven't had too much trouble with monsters running away. Then again, I keep a sharp lookout if they end up in another group of monsters.
If you manage your heroes/henchies properly, you can counter the running very easily.
Also completed with my ranger with some pugging at the endgame.
Haven't had too much trouble with monsters running away. Then again, I keep a sharp lookout if they end up in another group of monsters.
If you manage your heroes/henchies properly, you can counter the running very easily.
Lmao Roflus
Personally I think that the new enemy behaviour makes this game alot more interesting. It seems that almost everyone prefers to have their computer controlled enemy stand there and mindlessly fight you until its bitter death. Is it so bad that when an enemy feels outmatched he feels the need to run away? I thought it was the greatest thing ever when an enemy monk ran away from me as I tried to axe him to death. Would it be more "realistic" if he just stood there like a moron letting the entire group pound on him?
I always notice the people that don't want to accept the fact that this is supposed to make the game more challenging don't call it "Smarter AI", they call it "Annoying AI". So the last enemy runs away towards another group, why would you chase him down to knowingly cause more aggro and then blame the AI for the oldest mistake in the book? You gotta anticipate the fact that henchies and heros get excited when they see an enemy.
I know it must be frustrating to be outsmarted by some computer controlled enemies. Well I have the cure for that, get a new build and learn how to use the orders system more efficiently. What I like to do is leave my henchies several paces behind me before we engage a field of enemies. What I try to do is pull the enemies into my group, not the other way around. It may not sound like an advantage because henchies still run up but it certainly keeps enemies somewhat out of each others patrol routes.
I always notice the people that don't want to accept the fact that this is supposed to make the game more challenging don't call it "Smarter AI", they call it "Annoying AI". So the last enemy runs away towards another group, why would you chase him down to knowingly cause more aggro and then blame the AI for the oldest mistake in the book? You gotta anticipate the fact that henchies and heros get excited when they see an enemy.
I know it must be frustrating to be outsmarted by some computer controlled enemies. Well I have the cure for that, get a new build and learn how to use the orders system more efficiently. What I like to do is leave my henchies several paces behind me before we engage a field of enemies. What I try to do is pull the enemies into my group, not the other way around. It may not sound like an advantage because henchies still run up but it certainly keeps enemies somewhat out of each others patrol routes.
Lord Sojar
Bottom Line: The AI is jacked up. I figured we came to this conclussion.
I chased a ritualist boss who was healing himself CONSTANTLY for about 40 mintues. Because that wasn't at all annoying... @_@ Oh, and my ranger hero had pin down (he had mend body and soul) He would kite around his spirits, then run off far away while we fought the group he aggroed us into. Then, he would lay down another 2 spirits, etc. This was so bloody annoying, I wanted to hang myself. I was playing my MM at the time too.... so...I have no skills to "snare" him, so don't mention it. I figured pin down was enough, Guess not....
Fix the god forsaken AI anet.
I chased a ritualist boss who was healing himself CONSTANTLY for about 40 mintues. Because that wasn't at all annoying... @_@ Oh, and my ranger hero had pin down (he had mend body and soul) He would kite around his spirits, then run off far away while we fought the group he aggroed us into. Then, he would lay down another 2 spirits, etc. This was so bloody annoying, I wanted to hang myself. I was playing my MM at the time too.... so...I have no skills to "snare" him, so don't mention it. I figured pin down was enough, Guess not....
Fix the god forsaken AI anet.
shadowmist
I haven't noticed all that much change with mob AI except when I attempted to troll farm (nooo!!! >_<) Might be because I've pretty much been playing my dervish exclusively for a while now and I cripple whatever I'm fighting. But even before I started using cripple, none of the monsters ran that far away from their starting point. I had more trouble with my henchies running into the middle of the fortress to attack a mob one agro bubble away when I was capping the avatars (stupid koss...) Didn't tell him to do anything either, was just finishing off one of the patrolling groups outside.
Cebe
It really gets on my nerves also when mobs run away when they look like they're about to die. But more annoying is the fact that it doesn't work the other way around. Mobs now seem to target one individual before moving onto the next, in most occaisons. I first noticed this when playing as monk...when the enemy picks a target...they GO for that target and their health plumits. For instance, I was monking for the Varesh-killing mission last night. It was like "Varesh see Dunkoro"..."Varesh kill Dunkoro". "Varesh see Dervish"..."Varesh kill Dervish"...REALLY annoying since I was basically ressing people instead of healing them since their health plummited so fast. I will say, however, Holy Haste + HCT Healing Prayers Skills = 2 second Res Chant 
The other thing that currently annoys me about the AI is...since they seem to have this new mentality whereby "I see...I kill", you CAN'T run away. When they run away from you when they get to half health...if they want to enough...they can lose you. When you get to half health and want to leg it they kill you anyway because, for some reason, they find some burst of speed! ARRRGH.
Deleet
Time to dust off those utility skills.
garethporlest18
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Originally Posted by Deleet
Time to dust off those utility skills.
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Avarre
I'm partially confused, mainly because I haven't really seen... well... any change in the AI. After about 6 hours of killing Margonites for LB points, not one behaved any differently than a pre-update mob. The only mob in all of Nightfall I noticed kiting me was a Kournan Priest (which died easily when I blocked it's selfhealing). If anything, mobs (in particular, casters) have been standing in convinient groups for aoe attacks. I'm not sure why this is, when the forum presents an alternate world.
So I can't really add to this simply because I've never seen what people are talking about. It sounds dreadful.
So I can't really add to this simply because I've never seen what people are talking about. It sounds dreadful.
garethporlest18
I don't think it's with NF enemies Avarre at least I've not noticed it either. Those priests are tards though, they come from their group, charge in like the warrior cast RoF and Shielding Hands and then stand there and die. Each and everytime I fight them...
Hyunsai
Obviously now the useless character are those who can't snare slow KD...
ChaoticCoyote
Keep the heroes on "Guard", and use cripples and snares to stops enemies from running.
ANet added a bit more strategy to the game. That's a GOOD thing.
I find it so odd that people complain about the game being too easy or boring, yet they turn around and complain when battles become a bit more tactical.
ANet added a bit more strategy to the game. That's a GOOD thing.
I find it so odd that people complain about the game being too easy or boring, yet they turn around and complain when battles become a bit more tactical.
The Silver Star
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Originally Posted by lunksunkunk
When the hell did bots chestrun or run period?
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stamenflicker
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Darcy
I think the new mob AI has made them play more like humans (luring & chasing), thus making it more difficult to do quests with hero/hench parties. You need real people to split your party correctly; some to chase the runners, some to protect casters.
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stamenflicker
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief
I was playing my MM at the time too.... so...I have no skills to "snare" him, so don't mention it. I figured pin down was enough, Guess not....
Fix the god forsaken AI anet. |
And for all the "cripple them" shouters out there. Ummm no. Save that stuff for the Kouran Clerics.