This really is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I have been increasingly fed up with the amount of hero npc teams filling heroes ascent. Tonight, we faced an npc team that took the cake. The individual's soul purpose was to force people to quit so that they could fame farm. The individuals team consisted of 4 monks (2 heroes, 1 henchman, and himself), 1 paragon, and a fighter henchman. Even before we started the match, this person started gloating and insisting that we should resign rather than endure the match. Since we hadn't encountered this type of hench team before, we ingnored the person's suggestions and played the match as normal. Several minutes into the match, it was clear that the person's build was not designed to win offensively, but to have so much healing power that the other team would eventually give up.
Is this going to be the new trend for fame farming in heroes ascent or can we count on Anet to do something about this? I've also submitted a report to NCSoft support although from past experience, I have received very little respose from them.
For those who still doubt that hero npcs are a problem in Heroes Ascent (Screenies)
winkgood
B Ephekt
I'm pretty sure it's your own fault for spending 40 minutes on Underworld rather than just resigning.
Heroes in pvp are pertty damn lame though.
Heroes in pvp are pertty damn lame though.
Arduin
There sure are some sick people out there...
jonnybegood
please I am interest in the reaction some of you gave. I see nothing with what he was saying, except for some criticism at the start. But holding builds have been around forever. anyone remember spirit spammers? but Heroes have nothing to do with this, and taking them out would not solve anything.
What reaction were you expecting to get from Anet? The have made a career choice that they have had to think out for a while. or else the money is gone. So taking this decision back would be ignorant and unprofessional.
Also for a time there was a problem with elitism in HA, if you were on the side for it then not much has changed in that perspective.
But if you complained about not getting in high level groups then I would say whining is to frequent, and judging from your post I can guess you would agree with anti elitism.
What reaction were you expecting to get from Anet? The have made a career choice that they have had to think out for a while. or else the money is gone. So taking this decision back would be ignorant and unprofessional.
Also for a time there was a problem with elitism in HA, if you were on the side for it then not much has changed in that perspective.
But if you complained about not getting in high level groups then I would say whining is to frequent, and judging from your post I can guess you would agree with anti elitism.
winkgood
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by B Ephekt
I'm pretty sure it's your own fault for spending 40 minutes on Underworld rather than just resigning.
Heroes in pvp are pertty damn lame though. |
Daithi the wolf
Wow that really sucks. I knew Heros were being over-used in HA but thats total abuse. Maybe your party's build was the specific type he was aiming to fight? I'm sure there are builds that could beat him.
Thallandor
So you are posting this so that more players can do this farming fame with Heros? woah how generous of you to share.
Perhaps if enough players actually exploit this, Anet may just have to do something about this...hmm why didnt i think of this.
Maybe i will try this before they nerf it?
Then again there probably will be others who might post in a few days from now saying that because your team wasnt prepared for a Hero healing build so Heros must be removed from HA? Then again Anet did nerf MM factory cause players didnt have a counter for it in ABs and it was overpowered.
But.... but.... didnt i remember that all the 1337 PvPers were saying that it wasnt losing to Heroway that they wanted Heros out of HA??
This reminds me of the time when some were Q_Qing about runners and protection monks in RA.
Maybe if theres enough Q_Qing here things would change. Good luck.
Perhaps if enough players actually exploit this, Anet may just have to do something about this...hmm why didnt i think of this.
Maybe i will try this before they nerf it?
Then again there probably will be others who might post in a few days from now saying that because your team wasnt prepared for a Hero healing build so Heros must be removed from HA? Then again Anet did nerf MM factory cause players didnt have a counter for it in ABs and it was overpowered.
But.... but.... didnt i remember that all the 1337 PvPers were saying that it wasnt losing to Heroway that they wanted Heros out of HA??
This reminds me of the time when some were Q_Qing about runners and protection monks in RA.
Maybe if theres enough Q_Qing here things would change. Good luck.
The Bloodrose
Quit crying, suck it up and learn to beat them. All the PvPers tell the PvE farmers "Hey, learn to adapt after the nerf." So ya know what, stfu, quit bitching, and adapt. I'll jump on the side of the fanboys or the anet zealots and say "Isen't this the 249873469834th topic about this?" Oh noes..heroway beat me againz...
winkgood
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Daithi the wolf
Wow that really sucks. I knew Heros were being over-used in HA but thats total abuse. Maybe your party's build was the specific type he was aiming to fight? I'm sure there are builds that could beat him.
|
Thallandor:
What would you suggest then? Keep quiet and hope nobody finds out about this? The developers do read this forums and any chance for an in game change would start here. Also, this isn't a balance issue that needs a nerf. This is called taking advantage of the Hero and npc AI and exploiting the fame system.
The Bloodrose:
So what you are saying is we should adjust our build just in case we face a team that focusses on staying alive instead of winning? Wow, what a thoughtful idea. Lets see... Our build has vocal minority (with cover hexes) both of which were removed instantly by divert hexes or one of the many remove hexes. Depravity with cover hexes was also instantly removed from any target. Any damage we dealt was instantly healed up by the plethera of monks. The build we were running had heavy e-denial and degen to counter the many fotm builds out there. We won halls six times in a row last night (7 times total) with it and slightly adjusted the build today. Oh yes, you are very thoughtful indeed. Lets throw away a good build to bring an anti "stay alive" build in case we run into people with no lives. The fact that the person asked us to give up before even seeing our build is a good sign that his build has been able to do the same thing against MANY other builds.
The Silver Star
Its not the fact that "Oh noes..heroway beat me againz..." its the fact that 90% of the teams are AI and not real people and that 50% of the time now you have to do /roll 100 and loser resigns, even though sometimes they refuse to.
" its the fact that 90% of the teams are AI and not real people and that 50% of the time now you have to do /roll 100 and loser resigns, even though sometimes they refuse to.
Ghost Recon
This thread is stupid, hero's aren't the problem what is stopping a team of 6 humans from making the same team and just waiting the other team out? No one would be complaining at that you would just think they where idiots and resign.
Saphatorael
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Silver Star
Its not the fact that "Oh noes..heroway beat me againz...
" its the fact that 90% of the teams are AI and not real people and that 50% of the time now you have to do /roll 100 and loser resigns, even though sometimes they refuse to. |
I mean, it's PLAYER vs. PLAYER, HELLO?
I haven't done HA for weeks, but i can imagine al the fame farmers from what I've heard, one more sadder than the other...
I don't think I'll even go back to HA anymore if it's not 'PvP' anymore, even RA has more level than that imo, then.
phasola
What's the point of this ? Heroes will remain because PvE carebears can get into "groups" and farm fame. As for PvP, who cares about that ?
Rhedd
Odd fact:
I recently wrote Anet with some concerns I had over setting up simple macros for a new gaming device. I wanted to make sure I wasn't breaking any rules.
The response was that as long as the macros emulated normal key functions, and I WAS REQUIRED TO BE PRESENT AT THE COMPUTER TO PLAY, it wasn't breaking the rules.
Odd, then, that by this jerk's own admission, he was breaking that very rule (he went and watched TV, ate, etc.) using only the tools that Anet gave him.
I wonder if he'll get punished for being reported for this.
Oh, and Ghost Recon, don't be dumb. The difference here is that a human team made up of the same build would have to be present and PLAY, not go off and watch TV while the AI does the work.
I recently wrote Anet with some concerns I had over setting up simple macros for a new gaming device. I wanted to make sure I wasn't breaking any rules.
The response was that as long as the macros emulated normal key functions, and I WAS REQUIRED TO BE PRESENT AT THE COMPUTER TO PLAY, it wasn't breaking the rules.
Odd, then, that by this jerk's own admission, he was breaking that very rule (he went and watched TV, ate, etc.) using only the tools that Anet gave him.
I wonder if he'll get punished for being reported for this.
Oh, and Ghost Recon, don't be dumb. The difference here is that a human team made up of the same build would have to be present and PLAY, not go off and watch TV while the AI does the work.
Thallandor
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by winkgood
Thallandor:
What would you suggest then? Keep quiet and hope nobody finds out about this? The developers do read this forums and any chance for an in game change would start here. Also, this isn't a balance issue that needs a nerf. This is called taking advantage of the Hero and npc AI and exploiting the fame system. |
As for taking advantage and exploiting fame system, isnt is what PvP is about? Players taking advantage of the unprepareness of others to win? unless its a balance issue which you also claim that it isnt that requires a nerf. As discussed many months ago, theres a fine line between tactics vs expliot and unless that line is crossed, its considered "fair" play.
Edit:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ghost Recon
This thread is stupid, hero's aren't the problem what is stopping a team of 6 humans from making the same team and just waiting the other team out? No one would be complaining at that you would just think they where idiots and resign.
|
winkgood
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ghost Recon
This thread is stupid, hero's aren't the problem what is stopping a team of 6 humans from making the same team and just waiting the other team out? No one would be complaining at that you would just think they where idiots and resign.
|
jonnybegood
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ghost Recon
This thread is stupid, hero's aren't the problem what is stopping a team of 6 humans from making the same team and just waiting the other team out? No one would be complaining at that you would just think they where idiots and resign.
|
Ghost Recon
Well imo match times should be limited say 20-30 minutes max. If this time is reached and no team has won either both teams loses or both teams win get moved to different maps but get no fame for the win.
arcady
Could this be taken down with a Mesmer team doing energy shutdown of some kind? Or perhaps something with Paragons?
I think the difference between heroes and henchies as opposed to this run by all humans is that all humans would be less likely to hold the line and keep managing it for 40+ minutes...
Heroes on the other hand, can be outsmarted. If the person running them starts to go afk, you can probably kite them away from each other and kill where they won't go and rez fast enough before you kill the next one...
Especially given the way the AI likes to flee now...
I think the difference between heroes and henchies as opposed to this run by all humans is that all humans would be less likely to hold the line and keep managing it for 40+ minutes...
Heroes on the other hand, can be outsmarted. If the person running them starts to go afk, you can probably kite them away from each other and kill where they won't go and rez fast enough before you kill the next one...
Especially given the way the AI likes to flee now...
Braggi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ghost Recon
This thread is stupid, hero's aren't the problem what is stopping a team of 6 humans from making the same team ...
|
myword
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Bloodrose
Quit crying, suck it up and learn to beat them. All the PvPers tell the PvE farmers "Hey, learn to adapt after the nerf." So ya know what, stfu, quit bitching, and adapt. I'll jump on the side of the fanboys or the anet zealots and say "Isen't this the 249873469834th topic about this?" Oh noes..heroway beat me againz...
|
Ghost Recon
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Braggi
Wrong, heroes are exactly the problem, because now it only takes one player to waste 6 other players' time...
|
e.g. it was quite clear from the OP that the Hero team wasn't going to resign and that they couldn't kill them yet they stayed in the match for 40 minutes.
Aphraelyn
Man that sucks =/
Ghost, so if you met this team in say Courtyard, would you just resign? The build there is made so that the player can just farm fame by wasting the other person's time. It's not about being stupid enough to let them waste your time, its destroying the integrity, of whats left anyway, of HA and...yeah.
What's the difference between that a full 6 human group? A full 6 human group...like people have said before, would need to BE AT THE COMPUTER while this guy is just afking...=/
Ghost, so if you met this team in say Courtyard, would you just resign? The build there is made so that the player can just farm fame by wasting the other person's time. It's not about being stupid enough to let them waste your time, its destroying the integrity, of whats left anyway, of HA and...yeah.
What's the difference between that a full 6 human group? A full 6 human group...like people have said before, would need to BE AT THE COMPUTER while this guy is just afking...=/
Hengis
I was playing last week one evening and noticed that one particular guild had held Halls for five or six times in a row, so switched to observe mode to see what they were doing so well.
They were all human players, and they were all playing monks. Basically they were playing the same tatics as this Heroway team.
I can't say I was partiularly impressed with how they were winning, but it was a perfectly valid tactic. So if it is valid with humans, then it is equally valid with heros/hench.
If this kind of play becomes too popular then teams will set up to counter it, and the flavour of the month will move on to something else eventually.
They were all human players, and they were all playing monks. Basically they were playing the same tatics as this Heroway team.
I can't say I was partiularly impressed with how they were winning, but it was a perfectly valid tactic. So if it is valid with humans, then it is equally valid with heros/hench.
If this kind of play becomes too popular then teams will set up to counter it, and the flavour of the month will move on to something else eventually.
The Silver Star
Tey were actually running a Mystic of Wrath spike Hengis..
Aphraelyn
I'm not saying how its a bad tactic or anything. Granted its a good tactic...albeit an annoying one. However, when the person starts going afk and just lets the AI do the work....its a different story =/ If all the players are human and they just work for that...sure, they got it fair and square...but eh...once it gets to the point where he uses heroes...its just lame =/
Besides, there is a limit to human concentration and stuff. After a while, they just won't be able to keep on doing it anymore and they'll have to stop. But with AI....meh.
Mind keeping us up to date with the outcome of this winkgood? Would be appreciated =P Thanks
Besides, there is a limit to human concentration and stuff. After a while, they just won't be able to keep on doing it anymore and they'll have to stop. But with AI....meh.
Mind keeping us up to date with the outcome of this winkgood? Would be appreciated =P Thanks
The Bloodrose
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by myword
you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
|
The Silver Star
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Bloodrose
Thats your opinion. But if the PvPers tell the PvEers to adapt to nerfs, then they need to do the same. Learn to come up with a counter to it. PvEers adapted to the nerf to our side of the game, now its up to the PvPers to come up with something to adapt to their side(i.e 6v6, heroway, fotm).
|
Aphraelyn
PvPers have way more adapting to do to nerfs =/. I'm not saying that PvEers don't have to and stuff. I play both PvE and PvP so I know what happens on both sides =/
This isn't coming up with something to adapt to it...this is about someone using the AI to use unfair methods of winning (Going afk). Like I said above, if it was a full human team...I don't think people would complain too much other than remember that those people used lame methods of winning =P
This isn't coming up with something to adapt to it...this is about someone using the AI to use unfair methods of winning (Going afk). Like I said above, if it was a full human team...I don't think people would complain too much other than remember that those people used lame methods of winning =P
Vanquisher
I can go into HA with 6 Monks, or 4 Monks and 2 Paragon's. I can make sure you don't kill me. It's a completely valid Build and I've actually done it before. We got reported multiple times for griefing, but it's perfectly legitimate. Even confirmed by a Dev who watched some of the matches (this was when it was still Tombs, too). Nothing wrong with what he's doing.
Darkveil
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ghost Recon
Only if you are stupid enough to let them waste your time.
e.g. it was quite clear from the OP that the Hero team wasn't going to resign and that they couldn't kill them yet they stayed in the match for 40 minutes. |
/ Jinx
JR
There have been a thousand threads on this issue, and whilst I concur with the OP this thread is doing nothing but encouraging idiots.