Which Class is least dependent?

Sli Ander

Sli Ander

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Deep in Maguuma, by the Falls

Liberators of Agony

Mo/R

The title says it all. I was curious exactly which class was least dependent on the others skillwise, a class being an individual profession. In other words, if we could have a char without a secondary profession. For the sake of argument I'm excluding special builds like 55's because under the right circumstances they are pathetic. In other words, I'm speaking generally about most situations.

Monk:
pros-
Good healing
Good damage mitigation(prot prayers)
High damage versus undead
Condition and hex removal
Hard res(which doesn't mean much in a solo scenario like this)
Partial immunity to spellcasters (spell breaker)

Cons-
Low to medium damage against anything else
Weak against mesmers, necros
Low armor
No running abilities
Little Energy management skills.(Divine spirit, and a couple elites from factions)
no interrupts
Many heals are for target others

Ranger:
Pros-
Best self heal outside of monks(troll ungeunt)
Versatile
Medium to high damage(dependent on build)
Traps deal aoe damage,condition spreading
self condition removal(partial)
Spirits create area effects
High armor versus elements
Evasion skills/running skills
Interrupts
Ranged attacks gain distance from hills
Expertise is built in energy management
Has pet to draw aggro/absorb damage
Spirits can also be used as decoys

Cons-
The two heals are long cast, heal over time. Healing spring is easily interrupted
No damage mitigation outside of evasion
Traps are easily interruptible
Condition spreaders weak against condition removers/spreads(plague touch,etc)
Spirits affect allies and enemies(though a pro in certain situations)
Armor low versus physical damage
Weak against blindness(obviously)

Necromancer
pros-
Vampiric abilities allow health management
Soul Reaping built in energy management,though dependent on killing enemies.
Creation of a small army of minions( good for drawing aggro, dispersing damage)
Condition spreading
Orders provide buffs toward teammates damage
Curses and wells provide good anti monk abilities, as well as team buffs
Health stealing is armor ignoring
Enchant removals

Cons-
Dependent on health sacrifice( with some skills)
Medium to low armor
Many abilities dependent on corpses
Hexes are weak against monk hex protection
Conditions are weak against certain ranger protections
No running abilites/evasions

Elementalist:
Pros-
Energy Storage. nuff said
Versatile 5 attribute lines instead of 4
High Aoe and direct elemental damage
Armor buffing spells
High Energy management in the form of Glyphs and attunements
Damage boost to weapons using Conjure frost, etc.
Wards
Aoe knockdowns
Slowdowns
Minor running abilities/major evasion

Cons-
Dependent on fighting enemies w/o natural bonus against element in use(fire fire imps,etc)
No stances
Weak against interrupts
Exhaustion
Certain armor buffs and the healing ability dependent on spellcasting.
Enemies run from aoe( a pro in certain situations)

Warrior
Pros-
Uses adrenaline to offset low energy pool
Versatile, 5 attr. lines instead of four
Shouts buff allies
Good running abilities(Charge also carries allies with you)
Temporary health gain skills
High Armor
Interrupts
Stances(anti knockdown, defense, etc)
Energy management through stances, certain elites
Knockdowns
Direct heal is instant gain of health(not heal over time)
Strength gives armor penetration

Cons-
Direct heal gives -40 armor
Temp heals are not real heals
Low energy pool(weak against energy denial)
No condition/hex removal
No damage mitigation outside of armor
Adrenaline management is key
Little Aoe

Mesmer:
Pros-
Fast casting
Most interrupts
Energy Denial
Degen abilities
Slowdown abilities
Strong against casters
Enchantment removal
Adrenaline denial
Energy management

Cons-
No healing
Some skills dependent on enemy reaction(attacking triggers energy denial,etc)
Requires high levels of knowledge about the enemies abilities
Requires good timing/judgement about when to use abilities (removing your own hex to deal damage,etc)

Assassin:
Pros-
Shadowstepping
Increased critical chances
good against individual spike targets
Speed boosts
healing abilities
Medium damage mitigation

Cons-
Low armor
Highly dependent on chain attacks (weak against chain interruption)
Healing dependent specific situations
Individual damage of each weapon low

Ritualist
Pros-
Good healing and damage mitigation
Defensive spirits only affect allies
Versatile spirits allow crossing into other professions territories(life stealing,etc)
Aoe heals and damage
group buffs
Adrenaline denial
hard res
Spirits can be used as decoys

Cons-
Spirits can be killed, cannot move
susceptible to interrupts
Channeling line deals mostly lightening damage(weak against anyone prepared for that)
Long recharges on many skills


That's all I can think of, and as you can tell I have a very limited knowledge of some of these classes. So if anyone would care to add to Assassins, rits, dervishes, paragons, or simply your favorite classes, I would greatly appreciate it.
In the end, I think its hard to say if any class has an advantage over any other. I think Ranger comes closes to being most independent, as its a middle of the road class which has tons of variety and the ability to have its pet do the tanking.

But that's just my two cents

I'd like to hear yours.

/edit for clarification
/edit to add comments by Jetdoc And Cosyfiep to list

Stupid Shizno

Stupid Shizno

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2006

Madison, Wisconsin, USA

[eF]

Mo/

the Warrior/Monk is the least dependant class in the game.

Other then that, if all are behind the control of a player, i have little dependnce on them in a pug.

Sli Ander

Sli Ander

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Deep in Maguuma, by the Falls

Liberators of Agony

Mo/R

Umm...Warrior/monk is not a class. What I meant by that whole post is what INDIVIDUAL class (just warrior, just monk, just ranger, etc.) is least dependent on the others. Though its true they will never be alone, as we all have secondary professions to augment weakness, but I figured it would be interesting to find out which most people felt was most 'durable' alone.

lennymon

lennymon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seattle

Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

Ranger is the most versatile overal, this does not always = 'best' of course but the sheer might that is expertise applies to many of the secondary professions (touchers for example). Pure beastmastery build allows a third and far better healing skill [skill]Heal as One[/skill] and very large non line of sight damage via the pet. Traps like some ele spells allow for physical control of chokepoints and tactical advantage on the battlefield even if damage is lower they can apply pressure and move opponents into a deathtrap. Even though mesmers have more interrupt skills in the arsenal, a ranger is the indisputed king of caster shutdown and rage induction . Ranger has a huge arsenal of aoe damage/dot/condition/and energy denial potential even just in its own attribute lines. However since 'you never fight alone' (except if you are solo farming of course) one has access to other professions and skilled players to fight at your side, and like any other profession a team build is far more versatile than any single profession.

LONGA

LONGA

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Thailand

Agot

N/

I can see thats you know almost any profession.I suppose that you have made yourself some build as well.
What I saw in Nightfall right now

Ritualist have more weapon spell which make him bout good damge buff and good protection. But still most of the spells seem to have activation time between 1-3 senconds

Necro have more enchantment removal spell which suppose to counter Dervish. Also a counter shout skill as well.

Monk variety of skill. Condition based skill. Enregy management.Counter knockdown skill.

Elementalist. Mostly focused on energy management.

Mesmer. More Direct damge skill.Especially monk hate skill *-*.

Count to Potato

Count to Potato

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Imagination Land

I Swear She Was Eighteen [Gwen]

W/

The e/mo is less dependent, it can self heal, blind , knockdown for interupt and run away with ice, atho the dmg is low

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

I would pick Ranger as the best independent class.

They can heal, trap, cause damage, intterupt and i think they synergize very well with many classes.

tomcruisejr

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

Rangers and Necromancers can survive without relying much on secondary professions

Tarkin

Tarkin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

W/N

I live for my ele, but rangers are best to survive by own forces...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Melandrus Resilence<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Sli Ander

Sli Ander

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Deep in Maguuma, by the Falls

Liberators of Agony

Mo/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkin
I live for my ele, but rangers are best to survive by own forces...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Melandrus Resilence<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I just went back and got that on my monk. I had martyr on, and had so much fun. I was wishing there were more conditions in the Lair by the time I got there. Its an awesome skill(both of them).

Quote: Originally Posted by Count to Potato The e/mo is less dependent, it can self heal, blind , knockdown for interupt and run away with ice, atho the dmg is low You kinda missed the point, though, yes, an E/mo is a powerful combination.
Quote: That is a high-quality circular logic. Please elaborate.

Moving to PvP, one of the benefits of Rangers is with natural stride (and if they run cripshot), they gain huge mobility only really matched with shadow of haste. In most cases, you don't want to stand around fighting anything that can kill you, because you can simply cripple it and pull out of range.

Once getting out of range, unguent can be useful, especially against the main form of continual damage while escaping - degen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longa
I can see thats you know almost any profession.I suppose that you have made yourself some build as well. I find that amusing, as the only profession I've played to any great length is my monk. My ranger is my only other character, so pulls a close second. While typing this thing up I had wiki open for reference, but playing a monk does give some insight into other classes the same way playing a mesmer does. A mesmer can watch the enemies skills as they interrupt/target, etc. them. A monk can learn what is good or bad to use in any profession while healing others.

But that's just my two cents

cosyfiep

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

to answer the question....the single prof that can stand alone is probably the necro......with the blood skills for health management and NO need for the sacrafice life spells.....even without minions you can stay alive a long time and do some good damage since the armor is a little better (70al for the set I have) than regular caster stuff.....I use blood and curses .....and soul feast if I am really low on health.

otherwise the warrior can stay alive pretty well on his own too.....with stances and such ---and of course better armor. And use dolyak or health signets to bring health back.

the smiting monk.....not really good armor, but if you put your points in healing and smiting you can get a long way with it. (and a few prot spells to boot). the 55hp monks can solo places pretty well and the set up is almost 100% monks skills.

other profs that can 'do it' the ele----geomancer with the extra armor spells but no health management.

rangers can do it as well for the reasons you mentioned in the original post
rits are also well balanced for healing and damage dealing (res and challening), but I havent done much with them so I cant really tell if in the long run they would fit the bill.

cant answer about paragon or dervish yet, though both have some healing and can do damage, will need more play testing on these

and I dont think a mesmer (though I do love to play them) can survive solely on mesmer skills.


well at least thats my opinion from what classes I have played.

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

A couple of comments:

1. You are missing the ability to have melee/other targets with your build.

In other words:

Ranger - has a pet to absorb damage and take aggro
Necro - has minions to absorb damage and take aggro
Ritualist - has spirits to draw attention away, either in mid-battle or while running away
Warrior - doesn't need anyone else to absorb damage and take aggro
Paragon - could be argued to ditto Warrior due to high AL
Dervish - could be argued to ditto Warrior

That is a weakness of the Monk, Elementalist, Mesmer and Assassin soloing.

2. Restoration Ritualists > Healing Signet > Troll Unguent as best non-monk self heal. I believe that Paragons may have better self heals as well.

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosyfiep
and I dont think a mesmer (though I do love to play them) can survive solely on mesmer skills. Sure they can! Distortion + Elemental/Physical Resistance does wonders.

The only bad part about mesmers is their lack of very efficient (and quick) self heals.

Tarkin

Tarkin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

W/N

Think in partys like...
8 monks
8 rangers
8 mesmers
...

TadaceAce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

dervish... signet of pious light is good healing, good damage, good tanking ability.

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

As a very accomplished soloer, here are my quick thoughts as to what makes a class very capable of soloing:

1. Self-Healing.
2. Ability to Flee/Run (which includes the aggro takers I described above).
3. Ability to Interrupt (healers and boss self heals).

4. Damage Mitigation/Avoidance.
5. Ability to do Damage over Time/Behind Objects.

You basically have to have #1 through #3 above to be able to effectively solo, OTHER THAN FOR FARMING. #4 and #5 just make it easier to do so.

My quick run through:

Warrior: Average at #1; Excellent at #2 and #3. Great at soloing.

Monk: Excellent at #1; Terrible at #2 and #3. Other than 55, not ideal for soloing.

Ranger: Average at #1; Excellent at #2 and #3. Great at soloing.

Mesmer: Poor at #1; Average at #2; Excellent at #3. Can solo, but not efficiently, due to good abilities at #4 and #5.

Necro: Average at #1; Excellent at #2; Poor at #3. Pretty good at soloing (due to excellent ability at #5), but has a very hard time against monks/bosses.

Elementalist: Poor at #1; Excellent at #2 and #3. Pretty good at soloing, especially because they are very good at #4 and #5.

Ritualist: Excellent at #1 and #2; average at #3. One of the best classes to solo, although Dissonance is one of the best interrupts they have.

Assassin: Poor at #1; Excellent at #2 and #3. Has a very hard time soloing due to being poor at #4 and #5 as well.

Paragon: Good at #1; Poor at #2; Average at #3. Uncertain as to whether Paragons will be effective soloers.

Dervish: Good at #1; Average at #2 and #3. Good soloers due to being excellent at #4.

FelixCarter

FelixCarter

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

I can solo pretty well with my Monk in most areas. You just have to be tactful and careful, but with 15 in Healing and 15 in Smiting, you can run around and smite things to death. You just can't over-agro, though. Signets and Mending do wonders.

Str0b0

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Carolina

N/Me

Dervishes are probably the least dependent. You could run Dervish skills only and never use your secondary and still be self sufficient. They have lots of good self heals, insane damage output potential and armor buffs for defense. Dervish hands down.

Carth`

Carth`

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

For least reliance on a secondary I would have to say ranger. When wielding a bow, a ranger has everything he needs without a secondary, and Expertise is just such a great primary attribute, no wonder it needed so many "adjustments".

Some people said necro... I don't play one but every necro I see used either monk to heal their sacrificing or mesmer to duplicate a powerful spell. Rare is it you see a necro not needing his secondary.

For most versatile in terms of forming a party with only one class, I'd have to say monks. You have your tank and smite groups, but really a team of 8 monks has all the healing it needs, and smiting for killing. Ranger would be a close second though, with barrage/pet groups and trapper teams.

Nanood

Nanood

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Supermans Crystal Palace

Legion Of The Dark Sun

The guy who stays at the original spawn point and never moves in to the battle with anyone else is the most likely to survive hehe..

If your not takin any damage you definetly are the least dependant.

Those bastards just never die.

Just a bit of fun

The Hand Of Death

The Hand Of Death

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cavalon

The Last Pirates (SaVY)

N/

Ranger.

Most of the time is fighting at a distance. Has great protective stances. Great elemental resistance. So-so healing. Great condition spreading. Pet.

Amity and Truth

Amity and Truth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/N

I'll also hand in my vote for the Dervish.
A multitude of powerful self healing abilities, quite some damage and nifty utilities. Ebon Dust Aura [E] - every attack blinds, Harriers Grasp - every attack hitting a moving foe cripples. Plus a dervish can switch his damage type midbattle. So your normal scythe ain't doing a scratch? Fire up that enchantment and deal cold damage. Or holy damage. Or whatever damage.
Your enemy is heavy on enchantments? Let grenth deal with that.
You're facing heavy conditions? Wait, what conditions? Better ask Melandru.
You want some damage? Lyssa is your man. I mean, woman. I mean, twin thingie. Ah whatever.


Add in one of the best (imho) IAS Skills in the game - heart of fury and very easy to maintain Speedbuffs and you've got one well rounded class. They can do almost everything on their own and a good dervish almost never needs the help of a monk if he is prepared as to what he will be facing.
This also makes him somewhat like a mesmer or Assassin. You'll need to plan ahead to be self sufficient. And managing all those enchantments will ultimately turn confusing if enemies start removing them left and right. If someone doesn't know what he is doing, he'll hit the dirt quite often and real soon. Once he starts to grasp the class it's very close to being imba.

Mostly spoken from a PVE point of view though.

arcanemacabre

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

Honestly, I'd say it all depends on if you had the foresight of what you were going to encounter at any given point. If you did, Necro would probably be tops, as they can counter just about anything (like a Mesmer), but have solid defense/healing (unlike a Mesmer). If you didn't, a generic Ranger build would probably be best.

The Dervish and the Warrior are right behind the Necro and Ranger. Both are solid classes with lots of tools at their disposal and can be either super-tough to kill, dish out lots of damage, or somewhere in-between.

exiled mat

exiled mat

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

The netherlands > friesland > balk

[JAMM] Justified Ancients of Moo Moo

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amity and Truth
I'll also hand in my vote for the Dervish.
A multitude of powerful self healing abilities, quite some damage and nifty utilities. Ebon Dust Aura [E] - every attack blinds, Harriers Grasp - every attack hitting a moving foe cripples. Plus a dervish can switch his damage type midbattle. So your normal scythe ain't doing a scratch? Fire up that enchantment and deal cold damage. Or holy damage. Or whatever damage.
Your enemy is heavy on enchantments? Let grenth deal with that.
You're facing heavy conditions? Wait, what conditions? Better ask Melandru.
You want some damage? Lyssa is your man. I mean, woman. I mean, twin thingie. Ah whatever.


Add in one of the best (imho) IAS Skills in the game - heart of fury and very easy to maintain Speedbuffs and you've got one well rounded class. They can do almost everything on their own and a good dervish almost never needs the help of a monk if he is prepared as to what he will be facing.
This also makes him somewhat like a mesmer or Assassin. You'll need to plan ahead to be self sufficient. And managing all those enchantments will ultimately turn confusing if enemies start removing them left and right. If someone doesn't know what he is doing, he'll hit the dirt quite often and real soon. Once he starts to grasp the class it's very close to being imba.

Mostly spoken from a PVE point of view though. I full agree to this point. I've started my dervish with the question: what secondairy should i choose?, but i'm still a PURE dervish after getting the monk secondairy for condition removal, hard res, and some "poor" selfheal...
All in all, my dervish with the same 70 armor as my assassin, lives WAY longer, and can stay in the fray, while not being as fragile when interupted (i DID tank once with my assassin, but i've learned my lesson )

pjfresh

pjfresh

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

NC, USA

Through the Eyes of the Dragon [eyes]

R/

Rangers. I mean, they're rangers... they can survive in anything

It's my favorite class to play, so I am a bit biased. But, seriously, PvE wise, I am consistantly one of (if not the) last person to be targeted, and when it comes to this, I 'Storm Chaser' it on out of there and return to res my team (gotta love all the impatient people though - "Just die!"). If some melee mobs charge me - Throw Dirt, Whirling, Dryder's, etc. Troll is great to negate the effects of degen, too, if it doesn't get interrupted/you cast it early enough. As mentioned, there are a few good speed boosts to escape the enemy. Inherent elemental dmg reduction in armor, too. Antidote sig. works well for condition removal, just has lengthy cast time. Really great class to play though.

Oddly enough, rangers are probably the least popular pick come group time, lol. In a toss-up w/ mesmers, they are the true unsung heroes of PvE groups (in terms of the original 6 classes).

To this day, the funnest PUG I was ever in was an 8-man ranger group at THK. Good times.

Redfeather1975

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

This might sound funny, but I'm going to say Ritualist.
I think the only ability ritualists lack is hex removal. They can do nice self heals, continuous direct damage, various AOE damage, interrupts, knockdowns, energy management, summoning, they just can't remove hexes as far as I know.

random.name

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

South Africa

N/

I personally feel that a warrior is the best as soloing. Dolyak + Healing sig completely removes the armor penalty.

Just one thing I need to point out... Mesmer is also a viable soloing class. Heard of illusion of weakness anyone?

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

I think the simple answer is this;

If your going solo farming or working alone for what ever reason, then your more likely to need a secondary class such as monk to heal yourself if your profession has no healing or protection.

But if your in a party with other professions to help and protect and heal you, then most classes could probably manage without secondary skills.

All professions probably work fine using their own skills, without adding secondary ones.

I only use one skill from my secondary most times (if at all) and I manage fine.

It all depends what your doing and whether you have access to skills you'd need.

If you someone else who can provide those skills, then you dont need them personally. If your alone, then you might need to bring them yourself.

You cant really choose one profession to single out.

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Dervish. Of all the classes (concerning GvG), it is the probably most capable on a split with primary skills - snares, hex removal, speed buffs, high damage, and so on, as well as being fairly hard to kill and quite mobile.

Warriors rely on secondaries to keep them clean, rits rely too much on holding position. Rangers are probably a close second to Dervishes.

Lexar

Lexar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Organised Spam

W/

In some cases you'd be better off with self-heals that can't be interrupted, or aren't spells, and then a lot of self-heals become useless, like facing ice imps with maelstrom. Stances that heal (melandrus resillience or conviction for example) or shouts that heal (vim, i will survive) are not as strong as spell-based self-heals but they're a lot more reliable in some cases, so it's a little easy to just give grades to professions on how they perform, it really depends on the situation which class is best. Troll's ungeunt isn't very practical for self-healing because of the long casting time, unless you always solo the same spot like some zombie and you know exactly to the milisecond what's going to happen up front, it's not very usefull.

Francis Crawford

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

An ether renewal elementalist can typically solo an area if and only if enchantment stripping isn't a big issue. (There are exceptions, of course ...)

However, if there's serious armor-ignoring damage and also serious interrupting you might need Mantra of Resolve. (If there's little armor-ignoring damage go old-school with Kinetic Armor and Armor of Earth, in which case Glyph of Concentration should suffice for anti-interrupt. If you need Stoneflesh Aura instead GoC won't cover everything.)

But Ether Renewal is the only powerful self-heal elementalists have.

Most of the skills in those builds are for defense, however, so their damage output is pretty blechy.

EDIT: Actually, Glyph of Restoration might rival Troll Unguent in a Searing Flames build. 1 second cast; a skill instead of a spell; 146 points of healing at Energy Storage 13 after you get your next SF off.

Redfeather1975

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

Yah, I've played a bit more of the dervish now and can see why people would say the Dervish.
They seem to have the ability to do everything in some way or another. Very cool.

quickmonty

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

I would say Necromancer. As a minion master, once you get your minion army started, you don't even have to get your hands dirty with fighting and the blood skills for stealing health and doing damage should keep you alive in a lot of situations.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Neither. Each class can and will be completely shutdown.

Ranger? How will you deal with hex, blind and cripple spam? Troll unguent for healing? Good luck against mesmers, rangers, KD warriors.

No class is self-sufficient on its own aside from primary/secondary class builds.

In group setting, rangers tend to be considered that, but that's due to balance of groups. While they might need little attention, that's only because they stay out of combat range most of the time.

MM? Um, no. Go start your MM army with only other MMs. In Realm of Torment. Also, what happens if there's no corpses?

When going for self-sufficient, secondary class and rest of group must be considered. Under that criteria, I'd vote Ranger (long range, away from combat, damage, shutdown, conditions, defenses) and Ritualist (backline, immunity to enchants, defenses, protection/attack, interrupt/KD/blind, hex removal).

I don't count monk under self-sufficient, since they cannot contribute as damage dealer and support at the same time (equipping smite on a healer monk doesn't make you damage dealer, neither does R8 gaze).

But the only truly self-sufficient classes are solo farming builds. A warrior in group tanking role can never even remotely be self sufficient (see mending wammo), or they aren't doing their job.

All of the above is for PvE only. In PvP, there just isn't a self sufficient class. It's just luck of the draw as to the opposition.

Deleet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

Rule Thirty Four [prOn]

Mo/

Rangers, Dervishes and Necros are good stand alone professions.

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antheus
Each class can and will be completely shutdown.

Ranger? ...Good luck against rangers...
All of the above is for PvE only. In PvP, there just isn't a self sufficient class. It's just luck of the draw as to the opposition. Split builds tend to be designed for self-sustainment, either through defensiveness (E/D), mobility (A/X or X/A with SoH) or offence (YAA!). It is not so much the class as the build - but sin skills are the most common to be tapped for a skirmish character. As for a single class, I stick with my choice of Dervish overall.

SpeedyKQ

SpeedyKQ

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Me

It depends on what you're doing.

For PVE play in groups, which is what I'm most interested in, I almost never put any points in my secondary profession, no matter what profession I'm playing.

Each profession has too many synergies between its own attribute lines, and the benefits from runes are huge. IMO if you're messing around with your secondary too much, you're trying to do a job that somebody else in the group can do better.

Soloing is a different story of course.

Nevin

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/W or W/R is the least dependent... With Strength/Wilderness Survival or Expertise/Tactics

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
That is a high-quality circular logic. Please elaborate. Ranger can interrupt your only self heal, since it's abominably slow cast. They can also cripple or blind you.

Keep in mind, this is about you being primary class only, and others can be anything they want. So you can be going against wild thingies removing your stances, hexes that slow you down and you can't remove, hexes that counter your attacks, all while having the same abilities that you have.

Self-sufficient doesn't mean you're running against a gimmick build, but those that can be realistically ran.

Mr_T_bot

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

Dervishes have a nice range of abilities between their attributes that give them workable defense and healing. It also gives them decent offensive output. After Dervishes I would say Rangers due to decent defense and healing.

Monks are obviously superior because they are the only real healing class.