I'd just like to draw attention to the problems with creatures agroing from several agro bubbles away and or not losing agro when a player is several agro bubbles away. This is mostly happening in the realm of torment. It is making it quite difficult to farm the greens there over the weekend as we cannot run away from groups we'd really rather not fight. Please note this is not lag.
An example: walk into a group of enemies, activate sprint skill, run until the 'little red dots' are two or 3 agro bubbles away. One of three things will happen...
1. They will break agro as normal and leave you alone.
2. They will hang back but if you move any closer than when you stopped moving they will attack you even if you can only just see them on the radar they are so far away.
3. They will simply not break agro at all and continue chasing with no let up.
Sorry to be a pain, I have put this in the bug thread but it's an awfully big thread and I'd like to maybe highlight this one in particular for the weekend.
Thankyou. :-)
Significant Bug needs fixing ASAP plz
Sooty
Shanaeri Rynale
yeah it's pretty wild now. Watched a mindblade chase a guildie from the chaos plains all the way to the labrynth reaper - lol
Captain Roberts
ya this is very anoying...but i would kind of like an "agro meter" once an enemy is in your bubble they agro to you and the meter is red. then if you run away it would slowly go down back to green, at green they are at normal agro range (danger bubble area) but before that your bubble would be bigger for that enemy. What do you think?
Maria The Princess
if im not mistaking it came with the new AI update
generik
This concept of "agro" is silly anyway.
IMO it is working perfectly fine.
Do unaggrevated mobs come and hit you for no reason if you stay well out of its agro radius? No.
Aggro it once and the gloves come off.
It is perfectly realistic.
IMO it is working perfectly fine.
Do unaggrevated mobs come and hit you for no reason if you stay well out of its agro radius? No.
Aggro it once and the gloves come off.
It is perfectly realistic.
Meta Dervish
Lol mobs should call all 100+ of their allies on the map go help them whenever they get aggro 
TheMosesPHD
Stop whining. What's wrong with higher lvl monsters chasing you all around the place? Upset that the game isn't easy? Well, I should say easier, since the game is already easy. Sorry, but it's silly to complain about being challenged at the end of the game and having to think.
One thing to note is that some mesmers have Illusion of Haste, and will chase you with it pretty much indefinitely unless you strip it off. Once you strip it off they'll be crippled until haste recharges. Also you could bring your own type of crippling such as something that puts Crippling on a foe or a mesmer slow hex.
One thing to note is that some mesmers have Illusion of Haste, and will chase you with it pretty much indefinitely unless you strip it off. Once you strip it off they'll be crippled until haste recharges. Also you could bring your own type of crippling such as something that puts Crippling on a foe or a mesmer slow hex.
garethporlest18
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Originally Posted by generik
This concept of "agro" is silly anyway.
IMO it is working perfectly fine. Do unaggrevated mobs come and hit you for no reason if you stay well out of its agro radius? No. Aggro it once and the gloves come off. It is perfectly realistic. |
Fact is, mobs shouldn't start chasing you again once you broke aggro and left it completely, they should just be going back to their business they aren't that smart and shouldn't be.
As for Torment creatures chasing you all around over the place it's quite annoying and can hinder you greatly from accomplishing what you set out to do, since there are over 50 groups on the map that are almost so compacted together you have to play maze through them to not aggro the whole damn set. Everyone loves Rain of Terror's and their AoE higher than human damage water attacks, that always go right for hero monks and annihilate them.
Sooty
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Stop whining. What's wrong with higher lvl monsters chasing you all around the place? Upset that the game isn't easy?...
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Rok
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Originally Posted by Sooty
Well thankyou for your highly developed insight there. Perhaps you should actually experience this situation for yourself before making such comments. Sincerely, I doubt this behaviour was intended. If that assumption is correct, then this is a bug, and we are simply requesting it be rectified.
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I agree with Moses, mobs should never deaggro, specially in Torment. They should hunt you down and bring all the rest with them. It isn't that hard to clear the place out with a full group. If you take heroes/hench just park them somewhere out of range when you get to the boss you want.
Quit whining, the game is easy, learn to play. If you step into a high level zone all by yourself, expect to die.
*cry* mobs are chasing me and I can't farm *cry* LOL
natuxatu
I think it's more realistic how they have it. In reality, like some people, some mobs would chase you, others would spot you from further away (when you spot them why can't they spot you) and so forth.. in my opinion it makes the enemies seem more unpredictable which in return makes it seem less repetative.
garethporlest18
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Originally Posted by natuxatu
I think it's more realistic how they have it. In reality, like some people, some mobs would chase you, others would spot you from further away (when you spot them why can't they spot you) and so forth.. in my opinion it makes the enemies seem more unpredictable which in return makes it seem less repetative.
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Lord Sojar
I am sorry, but you IDIOTS who continue to say "Learn to Play", the game is easy, etc, are annoying. Maybe we don't want to kill EVERY SINGLE MONSTER? So, by what you are saying, we cannot break aggro and therefore cannot avoid them. What is the point of running skills again if you cannot use them to escape monsters? OH, PvP... Don't even say it. Some running skills are built for PvE. GO AWAY TROLLS.
prism2525
Happens with the avicara wise in talus chute.
Clord
I wonder how many knew that monsters chase you only forever when they are activated spell against your henchmen/hero and he teleport to you alive when your party get resurrected.
Cynn survive enough long that resurrection take place when 7 other party members are "knocked out".
Monster want to use spell against Cynn but suddenly Cynn is teleported to Resurrection Shrine.
Entire monster group now want chase your party because one from their monsters want use spell against Cynn.
Problem comes that they chase your party forever when they activate spell/skill but not yet reached their target and casted it.
Cynn survive enough long that resurrection take place when 7 other party members are "knocked out".
Monster want to use spell against Cynn but suddenly Cynn is teleported to Resurrection Shrine.
Entire monster group now want chase your party because one from their monsters want use spell against Cynn.
Problem comes that they chase your party forever when they activate spell/skill but not yet reached their target and casted it.
exiled mat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sooty
I'd just like to draw attention to the problems with creatures agroing from several agro bubbles away and or not losing agro when a player is several agro bubbles away. This is mostly happening in the realm of torment. It is making it quite difficult to farm the greens there over the weekend as we cannot run away from groups we'd really rather not fight. Please note this is not lag.
An example: walk into a group of enemies, activate sprint skill, run until the 'little red dots' are two or 3 agro bubbles away. One of three things will happen... 1. They will break agro as normal and leave you alone. 2. They will hang back but if you move any closer than when you stopped moving they will attack you even if you can only just see them on the radar they are so far away. 3. They will simply not break agro at all and continue chasing with no let up. Sorry to be a pain, I have put this in the bug thread but it's an awfully big thread and I'd like to maybe highlight this one in particular for the weekend. Thankyou. :-) |
but alas, the ai still needs to be tweaked i guess, because yesterday a MONK breaked from his group (he wasn't even in my agro) to try and wand me to death, not much to say my henchy's pwnd him, but his group didn't even try to back him up
And why do shiverpeak PROTECTORS follow you till the end of time? XD
whohooo, we gonna wand you to death, stupid two legs!
Marty Silverblade
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Originally Posted by Clord
I wonder how many knew that monsters chase you only forever when they are activated spell against your henchmen/hero and he teleport to you alive when your party get resurrected.
Cynn survive enough long that resurrection take place when 7 other party members are "knocked out". Monster want to use spell against Cynn but suddenly Cynn is teleported to Resurrection Shrine. Entire monster group now want chase your party because one from their monsters want use spell against Cynn. Problem comes that they chase your party forever when they activate spell/skill but not yet reached their target and casted it. |
garethporlest18
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Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
Wow. So that's why there was an Avicara Guile chasing me from the top of Lornars Pass all the way down to the end. Nice to know it was supposed to happen. Lol ok Anet.
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Blind Rage
That bug is barely significant compared to whenever you double click on a dark remain to salvage it you get err 010 and you get booted from the game.
Well for me at least.
Well for me at least.
noblepaladin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Clord
I wonder how many knew that monsters chase you only forever when they are activated spell against your henchmen/hero and he teleport to you alive when your party get resurrected.
Cynn survive enough long that resurrection take place when 7 other party members are "knocked out". Monster want to use spell against Cynn but suddenly Cynn is teleported to Resurrection Shrine. Entire monster group now want chase your party because one from their monsters want use spell against Cynn. Problem comes that they chase your party forever when they activate spell/skill but not yet reached their target and casted it. |
Swinging Fists
Quote:
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Originally Posted by generik
This concept of "agro" is silly anyway.
IMO it is working perfectly fine. Do unaggrevated mobs come and hit you for no reason if you stay well out of its agro radius? No. Aggro it once and the gloves come off. It is perfectly realistic. |
shardfenix
It's not a bug. It's working just the way they programmed it.
Shanaeri Rynale
The new AI is'nt really that smart. If you(or more likely Zhed the Rambo Horse) over aggro's simply lure a mob pull back and string them out, and pick off the stragglers. It makes it a lot easier now than it ever was.
thelessa
I remember a while back when they made a point of fixing the "chase you forever feature." Have they changed their mind about it?
Amity and Truth
I've allways got to laugh when people bring up the "realism" argument. It's a fantasy game for gods sake! We have speaking dragons, Monks can ressurect dead people and heal them in seconds. Elementalists could summon a second Ice Age if they wanted to and you people are still talking about realism? Seriously, that argument doesn't hold ANY strength.
One argument does have a strength though. It's the argument that GuildWars is a game. A game is supposed to make fun. If a mechanism, despite how "realistic" it may be, is hampering with the fun in a game. It's a bad mechanism. It's as simple as that. Sometimes a step back might be worth more than a hundred steps forwards.
We were once tweaking AI on a Neverwinter Server. The AI went from "moo" to "hey cool". It was reacting appropiately as a player would have. It became a real remorseless killer and that is where the problem started. People started to hate the AI, despite how sophisticated it was. We had to revert the parts which were working as intended, simply because they caused frustration amongst our players. Yes i know that it is a smaller scenario than it is with GuildWars.
But this AI is also causing a lot of frustration amongst the players. The whole permanent aggro bug made me kick out rebirth which once was a great spell for PVE. Why even bring it? You're either running away until the end of time or whenever you get close to someone dead the mobs insta aggro you even though your aggrorange isn't even remotely close to them. So why bring res if the endresult will be a wipe anyways?
One argument does have a strength though. It's the argument that GuildWars is a game. A game is supposed to make fun. If a mechanism, despite how "realistic" it may be, is hampering with the fun in a game. It's a bad mechanism. It's as simple as that. Sometimes a step back might be worth more than a hundred steps forwards.
We were once tweaking AI on a Neverwinter Server. The AI went from "moo" to "hey cool". It was reacting appropiately as a player would have. It became a real remorseless killer and that is where the problem started. People started to hate the AI, despite how sophisticated it was. We had to revert the parts which were working as intended, simply because they caused frustration amongst our players. Yes i know that it is a smaller scenario than it is with GuildWars.
But this AI is also causing a lot of frustration amongst the players. The whole permanent aggro bug made me kick out rebirth which once was a great spell for PVE. Why even bring it? You're either running away until the end of time or whenever you get close to someone dead the mobs insta aggro you even though your aggrorange isn't even remotely close to them. So why bring res if the endresult will be a wipe anyways?
MegaMouse
I do beieve that this is part of the anti-farming code doing it's job a bit too well. I dont like to fight every battle on occasions but now it seems that once you aggro something it will go after you until you either Kill it or you die. This is cool with me as it can make the farmers job a lot tougher, but it makes the game a little harder for thse of us actualy trying to play the game. A-Net should tone he aggro down a bit or make it so that if the anti-farming code is activated put so many enemies in the map that it will be almost impossible to clear it out.
Mega Mouse
Mega Mouse
birdfoot
Honestly speaking, the AI has never been realistic. After all the changes done to how AI is behaving now, the AI still hasn't become more realistic either. While I do not have any major issues with the current AI, it's (perhaps luckily) because I didn't have much expectations of it ever since I started GW. I think realism in AI is important; but by "realism", I'm referring to the extent of how convincing the mobs behave (big, mean, stupid-looking mobs shouldn't be running). If we have a danger zone defined by the aggro bubble and it's valid for mobs to keep chasing us at 1 aggro bubble away, then I must say there's no strategy behind GW's aggroing mechanics. Mobs chasing players from one end of the zone to the other is perhaps realism, but not a realistic implementation. After all, realisticly, if a player group ran so far away from the mob group, the latter would possibly have lost track of the player group.
To those that felt AI is 'buggy', I think it's quite valid. It doesn't look like any form of improvement to me. Most of the players had already been used to how the old AI works. I don't quite recall any complaints on the old AI (though it doesn't provide much of a personality to different mobs), so why did it needed a change? It's quite abrupt, so it's no surprise many have an issue with it. In fact, I think it's good that it's been voiced out.
To those that felt AI is 'buggy', I think it's quite valid. It doesn't look like any form of improvement to me. Most of the players had already been used to how the old AI works. I don't quite recall any complaints on the old AI (though it doesn't provide much of a personality to different mobs), so why did it needed a change? It's quite abrupt, so it's no surprise many have an issue with it. In fact, I think it's good that it's been voiced out.
Cow Tale
lol jees u guys can be mean! i kinda like the new ai, make the game more challenging! only thing i dont like is the scar eater is really hard for me to kill now.
prism2525
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Originally Posted by Clord
I wonder how many knew that monsters chase you only forever when they are activated spell against your henchmen/hero and he teleport to you alive when your party get resurrected.
Cynn survive enough long that resurrection take place when 7 other party members are "knocked out". Monster want to use spell against Cynn but suddenly Cynn is teleported to Resurrection Shrine. Entire monster group now want chase your party because one from their monsters want use spell against Cynn. Problem comes that they chase your party forever when they activate spell/skill but not yet reached their target and casted it. |
EDIT: This has been around since BEFORE the AI update.
Enchanted Warrior
"Run Forest Run!" Track and field events have been added to GW. LOL Personally I think this is the result of anti farming codes running amok.
CyberNigma
Yeah if they made it more realistic (given that it's all fantasy and make-believe anyways), then it would actually be easier. You would have mobs of different types (not really in Torment but elsewhere since they are all on the same side) fighting each other more. You wouldn't necessarily see the lone Heretic in a group of Griffons just because he's a mesmer and can stop farming. If it was realistic, these disparate species would be fighting each other, meaning less mobs if you just sit and wait. That would be pretty stupid. It would also be pretty boring if you had to stop every now and then to oil your armour and sharpen your weapon to keep it up to par. I understand that osme people want realism. It's just usually that they play "simulators" or some sort that's more realistic. I'd like to see a realistic Spear of Torment or Grawl somewhere. :-) lol some people remind me of the Grey Giants walking around with their heads knocked off...
Ellador Nae
I thought this was intentional. Something about stopping runners...
Made me curse a helluvalot too. Like when I was running with my decoy henchies - I left them with the last mob, so I could scurry away. I saw them fighting it out just as I lost them on my radar, still running, and thought I was safe. Ya, right, the 'realistic' mobs won beat the hench and came for me from OFF my radar. I know programming the AI is a tough cookie, but.. c'mon.
Made me curse a helluvalot too. Like when I was running with my decoy henchies - I left them with the last mob, so I could scurry away. I saw them fighting it out just as I lost them on my radar, still running, and thought I was safe. Ya, right, the 'realistic' mobs won beat the hench and came for me from OFF my radar. I know programming the AI is a tough cookie, but.. c'mon.
Enchanted Warrior
Quote:
| I've allways got to laugh when people bring up the "realism" argument. It's a fantasy game for gods sake! We have speaking dragons, Monks can ressurect dead people and heal them in seconds. Elementalists could summon a second Ice Age if they wanted to and you people are still talking about realism? Seriously, that argument doesn't hold ANY strength. |
"You keep saying that, I wonder what your basis for comparison is.."
Jen Connely/David Bowie in the movie "Labyrinth"
Str0b0
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Originally Posted by Clord
I wonder how many knew that monsters chase you only forever when they are activated spell against your henchmen/hero and he teleport to you alive when your party get resurrected.
Cynn survive enough long that resurrection take place when 7 other party members are "knocked out". Monster want to use spell against Cynn but suddenly Cynn is teleported to Resurrection Shrine. Entire monster group now want chase your party because one from their monsters want use spell against Cynn. Problem comes that they chase your party forever when they activate spell/skill but not yet reached their target and casted it. |
The chase is not the only thing that is goony about the AI. Not only will monsters chase you they will also run from you to the other end of the zone even if you don't give chase. Monks will frequently charge your group during the initial aggro. The entire AI is just buggy as hell. They say that it reacts no differently than the original Prophecies script, except in regard to AoE damage. I have a hard time believing this though. Never once in prophecies, or factions for that matter, have I ever seen AI react in such a bizarre manner. I hope they figure it out soon. I know that they have a lot on their plate and the AI is going to be a lot of code to review.
Young Hero
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Originally Posted by generik
Do unaggrevated mobs come and hit you for no reason if you stay well out of its agro radius? No. |
Thargor
This whole argument seems to have 3 sides. Side 1 hates the AI because they might actually have to kill something on the way to the boss they are farming for a ridiculously overpriced green item.
Side 2 seems to hate the AI because they evidently are not smart enough to adjust to it and find a way to beat it.
Side 3 seems to have no real problem with the AI besides a minor annoyance now and then that is probably their own fault for a less than optimal pull or an overzealous henchie.
Its a game, its not supposed to be realistic. Some people need to quit crying about not being able to get thru an area with only killing the one boss they are after. Some people need to stop crying and learn to adjust to the changes. And the rest of us really don't have a problem. I personally see more problem with the Ai on henchies and heros than I do on the monsters.
Side 2 seems to hate the AI because they evidently are not smart enough to adjust to it and find a way to beat it.
Side 3 seems to have no real problem with the AI besides a minor annoyance now and then that is probably their own fault for a less than optimal pull or an overzealous henchie.
Its a game, its not supposed to be realistic. Some people need to quit crying about not being able to get thru an area with only killing the one boss they are after. Some people need to stop crying and learn to adjust to the changes. And the rest of us really don't have a problem. I personally see more problem with the Ai on henchies and heros than I do on the monsters.
Sooty
Many people are assuming that this has been a deliberate change to the ai which is working as the devs intended. I'm not so sure. There wasn't anything about this in the update notes for instance (i know they don't put everything in there but this would be a pretty big thing to leave out). Also there are sprint skills and skills like rebirth, which someone mentioned already, in the game for a reason. If they are rendered useless by this behaviour I think this simply lends weight to the theory that this was unintended. Imo we should first find out if this was indeed unintended in which case this is a bug and should therefore be fixed.
It's not a case of simply deal with it and move on. If every second skill in PVE failed to activate for some reason, I doubt you'd be saying well it makes it more realistic so just learn to deal with it noobs. You'd be a bit upset, pointing out the bug and expecting a fix. I'm sure once anet sees a few threads like this one, they will take a look at it and say hey something isn't quite right here, we'll get on that right away. That's all we're asking.
It's not a case of simply deal with it and move on. If every second skill in PVE failed to activate for some reason, I doubt you'd be saying well it makes it more realistic so just learn to deal with it noobs. You'd be a bit upset, pointing out the bug and expecting a fix. I'm sure once anet sees a few threads like this one, they will take a look at it and say hey something isn't quite right here, we'll get on that right away. That's all we're asking.
WasAGuest
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Originally Posted by Thargor
This whole argument seems to have 3 sides. Side 1 hates the AI because they might actually have to kill something on the way to the boss they are farming for a ridiculously overpriced green item.
Side 2 seems to hate the AI because they evidently are not smart enough to adjust to it and find a way to beat it. Side 3 seems to have no real problem with the AI besides a minor annoyance now and then that is probably their own fault for a less than optimal pull or an overzealous henchie. |
Trvth Jvstice
I'm pretty sure that when people here say "realistic" when referring to enemy ai, they mean the enemy is behaving more like a group controlled by real people.
Apparently the new ai isn't much of a problem, since you see so many people here that have beaten Nightfall with the new ai. Many people say that it's Too easy.
Apparently the new ai isn't much of a problem, since you see so many people here that have beaten Nightfall with the new ai. Many people say that it's Too easy.
Enchanted Warrior
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Originally Posted by Str0b0
One Word.....WRONG! This is not the only instance of a monster chasing you an obscene distance. Any aggro can result in this sudden lock on your party that causes them to chase you from one end of a zone to another, literally. The thing is it is inconsistent with little or no behavioral trigger to constitute the chase. This would indicate a bug, a random occurence caused by conflicting instructions within the AI script. You likely have to met two or more completely seperate criteria in the AI script for it to happen but since we don't know what behaviors are coded into the script there is no way to tell.
The chase is not the only thing that is goony about the AI. Not only will monsters chase you they will also run from you to the other end of the zone even if you don't give chase. Monks will frequently charge your group during the initial aggro. The entire AI is just buggy as hell. They say that it reacts no differently than the original Prophecies script, except in regard to AoE damage. I have a hard time believing this though. Never once in prophecies, or factions for that matter, have I ever seen AI react in such a bizarre manner. I hope they figure it out soon. I know that they have a lot on their plate and the AI is going to be a lot of code to review. |