In my experience of playing the game, I personally find that the missions, or more precisely the way in which the missions work are probably the main flaw of the game.
Don't get me wrong alot of missions are fairly enjoyable, but there are some missions that are just insanely hard to beat, or too long, and you cannot progress through the game merely because of a badly made mission.
Perhaps what is the key downfall to the missions is the lack of resurection shrines, i.e. when you all die you fail, no matter how far through you have got. So you have just spent what could be over 30mins on a mission only to fail at the very last hurdle, then you must start all over again with nothing to show for your progress.
What I suggest to solve this problem would be to introduce the resurection shrines, just at the beginning, so at least when you die you still have all of your hard work left standing.
This will not make the missions any easier as some may say as you will still of course have the death penalty on you, therefore it is still preferable not to die.
I do not know what all of you think about this but feedback and other sugestions would be great.
Thanks
Missions: The Worst Part of the Game???
JJ_Gee
lyra_song
Um....
i dont see that as a downfall....
Missions are keys to the storyline.
Certain things trigger and happen at certain times.
Lets say a mission requires you to protect someone and kill somethings at certain times.
If you die and res, you have to run to where you last were, and by then, your protectee would be dead.
Missions put you in a position to play a part of the story. Dying repeatedly is not part of the story.
i dont see that as a downfall....
Missions are keys to the storyline.
Certain things trigger and happen at certain times.
Lets say a mission requires you to protect someone and kill somethings at certain times.
If you die and res, you have to run to where you last were, and by then, your protectee would be dead.
Missions put you in a position to play a part of the story. Dying repeatedly is not part of the story.
JJ_Gee
I'm not saying that dying repeatadly is part of the story - but all i'm saying is that so much time is wasted by having to redo some missions so many times that the game becomes boring - it make sense that even if they didnt have resurection shrines, that when you fail after getting like 95% through you should get something out of it shouldnt you???
electrofish
Every chapter have masters/bonus rewards for people who wanted harder challenges...
If you can't beat the mission just to get on with the storyline there's something very wrong with either your playstyle, your build or your team. (In the case you're continuously failing with pugs consider going with hench or heroes, that's what I do)
If you can't beat the mission just to get on with the storyline there's something very wrong with either your playstyle, your build or your team. (In the case you're continuously failing with pugs consider going with hench or heroes, that's what I do)
lyra_song
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JJ_Gee
I'm not saying that dying repeatadly is part of the story - but all i'm saying is that so much time is wasted by having to redo some missions so many times that the game becomes boring - it make sense that even if they didnt have resurection shrines, that when you fail after getting like 95% through you should get something out of it shouldnt you???
|
Almost good enough.
what? you want an alternate storyline for when you fail?
gameshoes3003
I'm sorry, I cannot agree with putting in Res shrines, it takes away the challenge of the game.
Arkantos
Putting rez shrines in missions make them explorable areas with objectives, which takes away whatever little challenge the missions already are.
MithranArkanere
There are also quests that require you not to die.
Missions are separate areas with an added 'party survive' objective.
It's just like the tiny turtles mission, you want them to resurrect too?
It's part of the game.
Missions are separate areas with an added 'party survive' objective.
It's just like the tiny turtles mission, you want them to resurrect too?
It's part of the game.
Avarre
You're arguing against the fact you can fail missions. The reason there are missions is they must be completed. Practically every good game has had things you must pass or fail.
If you can't lose in a game, you can't really win either. If you can't win, it's not really a game. It's just a playable storybook.
Of course, this is all mainly rhetoric.
If you can't lose in a game, you can't really win either. If you can't win, it's not really a game. It's just a playable storybook.
Of course, this is all mainly rhetoric.
Helcaraxe
stop complaining 'cause you can't play the game as good as the other average noobs.
runeseeker1
You actually want to put a rez shrine in the middle of a mish...
im sorry, but what crack are you taking? i'd love some of that stuff.
the whole reason of the game is to be challenging, and youre ruining that when you add a rez shrine.
and what, you want the turtles or master togo to rez with you?
i dont want to flame, but thats what you brought onto yourself when you said you wanted rez shrines.
im sorry, but what crack are you taking? i'd love some of that stuff.
the whole reason of the game is to be challenging, and youre ruining that when you add a rez shrine.
and what, you want the turtles or master togo to rez with you?
i dont want to flame, but thats what you brought onto yourself when you said you wanted rez shrines.
BahamutKaiser
I am against removing the "challenge" from GW. The fact that your characters die and actually get a second chance is all the video game handicap you need truely, I couldn't imagine playing GW hardcore where you character dies and that is it. Missions require talent, teamwork, and a little bit of actually playing the freaking game, honestly, it owns over every single game which stresses time spent leveling up day after day, month after month, a challenge in the form of a mission is about as ideal as it gets.
My only grievances is probably the death of allie members when you are in a mission, it seems that they are right there but you cannot revive them, nor do your other allies revive them, they just die, and often take the mission with them. Wile in some missions that is certainly a feature point, having a bunch of instant restarts in your party cost too much for an additional healer or some sort. Still, it is a part of the challenge, and though I would appreciate if more classes had support abilities to address this difficulty, removing it would make some missions too easy.
And at this point with heros at our aid, the difficulty is far less, and mission difficulty really shouldn't be reduced, evolve yes, but digress, no.
My only grievances is probably the death of allie members when you are in a mission, it seems that they are right there but you cannot revive them, nor do your other allies revive them, they just die, and often take the mission with them. Wile in some missions that is certainly a feature point, having a bunch of instant restarts in your party cost too much for an additional healer or some sort. Still, it is a part of the challenge, and though I would appreciate if more classes had support abilities to address this difficulty, removing it would make some missions too easy.
And at this point with heros at our aid, the difficulty is far less, and mission difficulty really shouldn't be reduced, evolve yes, but digress, no.
Rera
If you get nothing out of beating 95% of the mission, that's your fault. Why? Because you're supposed to get playing experience out of it - so that you *don't* fail the mission the next time.
If you fail a mission, go in, play it exactly the same way, and fail again, then you really haven't gotten anything out of it - but that isn't the fault of game design. That's the fault of a player too stupid to learn anything.
If you fail a mission, go in, play it exactly the same way, and fail again, then you really haven't gotten anything out of it - but that isn't the fault of game design. That's the fault of a player too stupid to learn anything.
MithranArkanere
Yup. In the hardest hech-possible missions, you need no more of 3 tries to get the tactic to win. If there is not a timer, slow but sure. If there is one, focus on the objectives.
In GW, you can't level up more than 20, your power is not your level. Is your knowledge. You know the enemy, you can make builds to counter their builds. You can change, they can't. That is the power of the chosen ones. Use it.
A good example is the Fire Djinn. A party may be wiped out when they first meet a Fire Djinn Searin Flames boss. But once they know them, you change your build... e.g.: you have Extinction or any other full party condition remover... done! And they are easy.
In GW, you can't level up more than 20, your power is not your level. Is your knowledge. You know the enemy, you can make builds to counter their builds. You can change, they can't. That is the power of the chosen ones. Use it.
A good example is the Fire Djinn. A party may be wiped out when they first meet a Fire Djinn Searin Flames boss. But once they know them, you change your build... e.g.: you have Extinction or any other full party condition remover... done! And they are easy.
Arri
I don't believe missions are the main flaw of the game...I think the level 10 enemies with 50000000000+ in all attributes are the main flaw, I'm talking about the enemies on your way to missions
Series
If you beat 95% of a mission, you DO get something to show for it.
Drops.
Yes, some missions CAN be incredibly annoying- especially if henching (although with the introduction of heroes in Nightfall, this problem is basically gone except in the older chapters if you didn't travel to Elona), but the majority are fine.
Drops.
Yes, some missions CAN be incredibly annoying- especially if henching (although with the introduction of heroes in Nightfall, this problem is basically gone except in the older chapters if you didn't travel to Elona), but the majority are fine.
Kuldebar Valiturus
I just finished the Consulate Docks Mission, it rocked. I agree some Missions could have some tweaks to fix some issues, but not for difficulty. I think ANet is setting the right balance. And I was the type of person that despised Campaign based games, well, here I am eating this stuff up.
I think mainly it's because there is still enough non-linear content available it doesn't make it seem too restricting. But, it is a balance.
The tension you feel during a Mission is good, it's meant to put some pressure on you. The stress of knowing that even though you are 90% complete toward reaching your objective, you can still fail and lose all the progress.
And, failing isn't useless, it informs you that you need to change how you are approaching the problem.
I fail Missions all the time, but rarely ever more than once. It's my first time through the game and I am always with Heroes and Henchies so I have to learn the ins-and-outs myself.
And when I do a mission and the Bonus/Masters; it feels good. Not because it was easy, because there was a chance to actually fail.
I think mainly it's because there is still enough non-linear content available it doesn't make it seem too restricting. But, it is a balance.
The tension you feel during a Mission is good, it's meant to put some pressure on you. The stress of knowing that even though you are 90% complete toward reaching your objective, you can still fail and lose all the progress.
And, failing isn't useless, it informs you that you need to change how you are approaching the problem.
I fail Missions all the time, but rarely ever more than once. It's my first time through the game and I am always with Heroes and Henchies so I have to learn the ins-and-outs myself.
And when I do a mission and the Bonus/Masters; it feels good. Not because it was easy, because there was a chance to actually fail.
soulkeepertdd
I am the first to moan on about the things guild wars needs.
But i have to say missions in nightfall are great 2 days 15 pugs 15 attempts to kill shiro was great.
for my money i loved it.I would hate to have flown through every mission first time like i did in factions.
completing a good mission you had to fight for and work hard for is great.
I hope the days of breezing through missions is over.
The game has to last 6 months if you can complete it in 12 hours that is a lot of bored time.
nice one Anet keep the missions harder.
But i have to say missions in nightfall are great 2 days 15 pugs 15 attempts to kill shiro was great.
for my money i loved it.I would hate to have flown through every mission first time like i did in factions.
completing a good mission you had to fight for and work hard for is great.
I hope the days of breezing through missions is over.
The game has to last 6 months if you can complete it in 12 hours that is a lot of bored time.
nice one Anet keep the missions harder.
Dalimoor_Kalkire
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
In GW, you can't level up more than 20, your power is not your level. Is your knowledge. You know the enemy, you can make builds to counter their builds. You can change, they can't. That is the power of the chosen ones. Use it.
|
When you fail, don't ask the game to bend to your beck and call; bend your playing style to master the game. You can change, they can't.
LifeInfusion
The missions are the core of the game
/notsigned to any changes to missions
/notsigned to any changes to missions
LiamR
So you want to change the game because you can't do the missions.
Antheus
GW is nothing but missions. There simply isn't anything else, the rest is just glue that binds them together.
The NF missions do a good job given that they don't introduce new concepts. Each mission is still unique.
But I wouldn't mind having more open-ended aproach to them, because I hate linear content. Factions was much worse at that.
Prophecies, despite many hating the runners, at least didn't force you to do the missions in exactly the same sequence every single time. Some missions are simply too easy or too boring, and doing them again at that very particular moment gets really old really fast.
The NF missions do a good job given that they don't introduce new concepts. Each mission is still unique.
But I wouldn't mind having more open-ended aproach to them, because I hate linear content. Factions was much worse at that.
Prophecies, despite many hating the runners, at least didn't force you to do the missions in exactly the same sequence every single time. Some missions are simply too easy or too boring, and doing them again at that very particular moment gets really old really fast.
birdfoot
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JJ_Gee
What I suggest to solve this problem would be to introduce the resurection shrines, just at the beginning, so at least when you die you still have all of your hard work left standing.
This will not make the missions any easier as some may say as you will still of course have the death penalty on you, therefore it is still preferable not to die. |
Gorebrex
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JJ_Gee
In my experience of playing the game, I personally find that the missions, or more precisely the way in which the missions work are probably the main flaw of the game.
Don't get me wrong alot of missions are fairly enjoyable, but there are some missions that are just insanely hard to beat, or too long, and you cannot progress through the game merely because of a badly made mission. Perhaps what is the key downfall to the missions is the lack of resurection shrines, i.e. when you all die you fail, no matter how far through you have got. So you have just spent what could be over 30mins on a mission only to fail at the very last hurdle, then you must start all over again with nothing to show for your progress. What I suggest to solve this problem would be to introduce the resurection shrines, just at the beginning, so at least when you die you still have all of your hard work left standing. This will not make the missions any easier as some may say as you will still of course have the death penalty on you, therefore it is still preferable not to die. I do not know what all of you think about this but feedback and other sugestions would be great. Thanks |
mattyop
lol, i dont normally post, it's usually enough to read the answers and agree with them, but this time... 
i agree with the earlier points, you learn from where you died in the mission, you get the drops and experience from everything you kill up to that point, yet you want to have a res shrine for the mission????
you can make every single mission in NF with just heros and hench, and you can get master on them with the same party. this isn't a case of "ive heard from my fellow guildie, who heard from his mate, who heard from a friend of a friend that...." if i can get protector of elona and not used a single pug for any mission, and i'll point out there that i dont do a lot of PvP, and at best would regard my self as a competent PvE player, then with some simple changes to hero/your build then that point you died at and want that res shrine, will now become easy to get past and you'll wonder why you ever suggested this idea
/note signed x1000
i agree with the earlier points, you learn from where you died in the mission, you get the drops and experience from everything you kill up to that point, yet you want to have a res shrine for the mission????
you can make every single mission in NF with just heros and hench, and you can get master on them with the same party. this isn't a case of "ive heard from my fellow guildie, who heard from his mate, who heard from a friend of a friend that...." if i can get protector of elona and not used a single pug for any mission, and i'll point out there that i dont do a lot of PvP, and at best would regard my self as a competent PvE player, then with some simple changes to hero/your build then that point you died at and want that res shrine, will now become easy to get past and you'll wonder why you ever suggested this idea
/note signed x1000
JJ_Gee
Lol - This was actually a very crap idea - I didnt think about the fact that you couldnt lose a mission - duh!! All that really buggered me was the Naijun Quarters Missions - I hate it!!! Lol
Thnx for ur views though
Thnx for ur views though
Avatara
/not signed
But I do agree that the missions are really bad. The level design stinks and the pacing is very bad. (exception of one or two missions).
But I do agree that the missions are really bad. The level design stinks and the pacing is very bad. (exception of one or two missions).
The Hand Of Death
So if a government agent was sent into a mob hide out, and the mob boss captured him and he failed his mission of trying to assasinate him, do you think the mob boss would just release him and let him try again? No, missions don't need to become explorable areas.
Samuel Anders
I love the missions. I think they're perfect.
I think the worst part of the game is the Heros utterly destroying the ability to create PuGs, but that's for another thread.
I think the worst part of the game is the Heros utterly destroying the ability to create PuGs, but that's for another thread.
darkMishkin
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Series
If you beat 95% of a mission, you DO get something to show for it.
Drops. |
If I get through 95% of a mission and then fail; I quit the game and do something else for a while. That's just the repetative nature of alot of the missions showing through. Killing the same groups of monsters over and over again is entertaining, but killing the SAME groups of the same groups of monsters all over again is just depressing.
Keep the game as it is, but take breaks more often. Even if you're definition of a break is switching characters.