Anyone agree that "gates of madness" is flawed?
justadude
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Guru Named Kai
Anet should have placed this mission at the end of Istani island, before entering mainland, that way people who aren't failures like us, can rake in the profit from greens this weekend.
...who aren't failures like us...
aren't is poor English and you just called yourself a failure. I think the implied meaning says EVERYTHING anyone needs to know about you. Guild Wars is a video game and it does not define if you are a failure or not. You apparently think it does... I believe with that misguided sweeping generalization you tried to insult many people who play Guild Wars, but failed nonetheless.
Oh, you did not understand my post. This was obvious from your reply.
Remember when reading: Views other than your own may be valid
aren't is poor English and you just called yourself a failure. I think the implied meaning says EVERYTHING anyone needs to know about you. Guild Wars is a video game and it does not define if you are a failure or not. You apparently think it does... I believe with that misguided sweeping generalization you tried to insult many people who play Guild Wars, but failed nonetheless.
Oh, you did not understand my post. This was obvious from your reply.
Remember when reading: Views other than your own may be valid
Clord
Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
Personally, I don't really care. I tried it once and had other problems (mainly, I had a really really bad team setup for this mission). As long as it is doable, I'll get it eventually and I do not mind the challenge.
However, one needs to also realize that there are different levels of players along with different skill level. For instance, I had no character any where close to capping Spoil Victor. For me, no big deal I'll just get a character far enough in Factions that I can cap it (I never liked Factions enough to play it that far. My necro is in the hatchery now, one mission away. Though I took time off for the greens and to get Vabbian armor - got my fill of both this weekend).
But what about the people without Factions? Or without Prophecies for SS? Or what about the unwanted classes if it needs a co-ordinated experienced team? I understand people wanting the challenge - again it's fine with me also, I'll get through it eventually and there is plenty of other things to do. It's not like I'm going to rage-quit or become more than slightly annoyed, but this game needs the "casual" player.
Requiring end/late game elites (that's OK if it requires ones from Nightfall, but requiring you to have nearly beaten the other two previous games also is bad game design for something intended to be standalone) to do any good is going to drive people away. While you may very well get your "noob filter" (or heaven forbid like a previous poster wanted - *all* missions to be hard for an experienced co-ordinated team), it will be the last as few will purchase again later.
The saving grace here is that a good portion of the "casual" gamers never get this far. Though I would say elite missions are where higher to high levels of difficulty needs to come in, not main story line. Of course, just having the one elite mission hurts the higher end player too.
It still needs to be realistic that a person owning only Nightfall is going to beat the mission with heroes and henchies. Based on what I have read about all the working tactics that is horribly untrue. As to how to fix that, dunno. A nerf to Shiro is easy, but I do not think that is exactly the right answer - I would suggest (amongst other things) having the lightbringer title play into it similar to a celestial skill in Factions. It will be interesting to see if Anet adjusts this mission in some way - for one thing we can whine and bicker all day long but without server logs it is impossible to tell if the failure rate is unacceptable. We need official bot system what walk, fight, farm and do missions for you. Not to mention Enviormental Effect - Superman what add HP and MP regen +1000, armor +1000 and HP +1000.
However, one needs to also realize that there are different levels of players along with different skill level. For instance, I had no character any where close to capping Spoil Victor. For me, no big deal I'll just get a character far enough in Factions that I can cap it (I never liked Factions enough to play it that far. My necro is in the hatchery now, one mission away. Though I took time off for the greens and to get Vabbian armor - got my fill of both this weekend).
But what about the people without Factions? Or without Prophecies for SS? Or what about the unwanted classes if it needs a co-ordinated experienced team? I understand people wanting the challenge - again it's fine with me also, I'll get through it eventually and there is plenty of other things to do. It's not like I'm going to rage-quit or become more than slightly annoyed, but this game needs the "casual" player.
Requiring end/late game elites (that's OK if it requires ones from Nightfall, but requiring you to have nearly beaten the other two previous games also is bad game design for something intended to be standalone) to do any good is going to drive people away. While you may very well get your "noob filter" (or heaven forbid like a previous poster wanted - *all* missions to be hard for an experienced co-ordinated team), it will be the last as few will purchase again later.
The saving grace here is that a good portion of the "casual" gamers never get this far. Though I would say elite missions are where higher to high levels of difficulty needs to come in, not main story line. Of course, just having the one elite mission hurts the higher end player too.
It still needs to be realistic that a person owning only Nightfall is going to beat the mission with heroes and henchies. Based on what I have read about all the working tactics that is horribly untrue. As to how to fix that, dunno. A nerf to Shiro is easy, but I do not think that is exactly the right answer - I would suggest (amongst other things) having the lightbringer title play into it similar to a celestial skill in Factions. It will be interesting to see if Anet adjusts this mission in some way - for one thing we can whine and bicker all day long but without server logs it is impossible to tell if the failure rate is unacceptable. We need official bot system what walk, fight, farm and do missions for you. Not to mention Enviormental Effect - Superman what add HP and MP regen +1000, armor +1000 and HP +1000.
Pandora's box
I have to meet Shiro yet. Sounds like a great challenge for a short Arena game 
Seems I need to be prepared for that mission. Is it the same Shiro as in Factions? Read about him on Guildwicky. Main things I learned there was that you need blinding and life stealing spells to beat him. Is that correct?
Rather than discuss whether or not this is a hard mission I would like to see builds that beat the guy and still can be used in the rest of the mission. Saw some interesting ideas in this thread. Maybe its an idea to gather 'kill Shiro' builds and post them somewhere?
Seems I need to be prepared for that mission. Is it the same Shiro as in Factions? Read about him on Guildwicky. Main things I learned there was that you need blinding and life stealing spells to beat him. Is that correct?
Rather than discuss whether or not this is a hard mission I would like to see builds that beat the guy and still can be used in the rest of the mission. Saw some interesting ideas in this thread. Maybe its an idea to gather 'kill Shiro' builds and post them somewhere?
Karlos
It's the same Shiro but weakened. The Shiro in Factions had the same skills I mentioned, plus Echoing Banishment (which took out one of your party members and replaced him with a bad guy till that bad guy is killed), and his knockout uber skill is stripped too. It's called Meditation of the Reaper, which was his main heal and nuke at the same time. Nasty stuff. The difference is the uber skills that Kuunavang gave you when you went in to fight him.
swiftygem
I went with heroes+henchies the first time and failed. Second try with General Morgan with Motivation build (all the restoration stuff), me with Command build (Incoming) and Koss with Wild Blow and dear Shiro dropped in no time 
The same team build got me through the last mission with only 1 henchie death as well. Dual paragons rule
The same team build got me through the last mission with only 1 henchie death as well. Dual paragons rule
Riken Chrono
Shrines help wonders. Degen helps too i guess. Definetly have a spoil victor necro and an incoming paragon.
If you're the tank, riposted work wonders as well.
If you're the tank, riposted work wonders as well.
tassadar
Shiro is like a riposte warrior,hes got no pressure unless u attack him, i took out lich and capped shrines while shiro couldnt take any of my party peeps down to 75%, once u get shrines hes cake
strcpy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlos
strcpy, if you read what I just posted, you will discover that you rpost is entirely unwarranted. I have beaten Shiro 4/4 times with an ele and a monk. Neither time did I have anyonw with Spoil Victor, nor will Spoil Victor save your butt when good old "Impossible Odds" kicks in.
All there is to it is understanding his strengths and weaknesses. You can break his stances with any of 3 professions, you can hex snare him with 2 professions and you can interrupt him with a bunch of ways. So, overall, your statement that the mission design requires Spoil Victor or SS or whatever is simply not true. So, you played through pretty much as a first time player would? Your heroes used the few skills they would have under those circumstances? I bet you have under 200 hours game time also?
I used Spoil Victor and SS as examples because that is the standard response - did your build use skills and tactics that a nightfall only character would? I bet no more than I am. Heck, there are photos floating around of people who beat all the missions from the Desert on up in prophecies with no skills and no attribute points just using the henchies. Since it is very possible to do would it be OK to require such a thing? I doubt I could do it, I doubt many here could - yet it is *possible*. That's why "possible" is irrelevant, we could have every mission and explorable area have status effects similar to The Deep - quite possible to still beat but so frustrating as to be no fun at all.
For one moment step back and think like someone wanting to sell games. You have to make something that the majority of players can deal with. Those of us with many hours of in game time, lots of unlocks, lots of gold/weapons, read forums, create decent builds, etc are in the minority - lots of things are possible. That's what places like UW, FoW, The Deep etc are for. You better have a game first time players and the true casual player are going to enjoy and want to continue playing and purchasing other Guildwars. Otherwise you will not have a game to play later on.
All there is to it is understanding his strengths and weaknesses. You can break his stances with any of 3 professions, you can hex snare him with 2 professions and you can interrupt him with a bunch of ways. So, overall, your statement that the mission design requires Spoil Victor or SS or whatever is simply not true. So, you played through pretty much as a first time player would? Your heroes used the few skills they would have under those circumstances? I bet you have under 200 hours game time also?
I used Spoil Victor and SS as examples because that is the standard response - did your build use skills and tactics that a nightfall only character would? I bet no more than I am. Heck, there are photos floating around of people who beat all the missions from the Desert on up in prophecies with no skills and no attribute points just using the henchies. Since it is very possible to do would it be OK to require such a thing? I doubt I could do it, I doubt many here could - yet it is *possible*. That's why "possible" is irrelevant, we could have every mission and explorable area have status effects similar to The Deep - quite possible to still beat but so frustrating as to be no fun at all.
For one moment step back and think like someone wanting to sell games. You have to make something that the majority of players can deal with. Those of us with many hours of in game time, lots of unlocks, lots of gold/weapons, read forums, create decent builds, etc are in the minority - lots of things are possible. That's what places like UW, FoW, The Deep etc are for. You better have a game first time players and the true casual player are going to enjoy and want to continue playing and purchasing other Guildwars. Otherwise you will not have a game to play later on.
Warrior Of The Toon
I killed him 1st time with a PUG, just know what you're doing, add a pinch of luck and you're fine, oh and always have someone who can run'n'res for you just in case.
freekedoutfish
Quote:
Originally Posted by vojnik
Same fighting as in factions, just has 2 less skills.
You really have to complain about everything dont ya? If ive ever complained about something, i tend to start off by saying "I really like this blah blah blah, I think its cool, but this tiny little thing is over-powered or just out of place."
Am I not allowed to find faults with parts of the game, or am I meant to think the entire game is perfect?
As a whole, I love GWs, but im not going to kiss ass and say its all perfect when I find something I dont like.
You really have to complain about everything dont ya? If ive ever complained about something, i tend to start off by saying "I really like this blah blah blah, I think its cool, but this tiny little thing is over-powered or just out of place."
Am I not allowed to find faults with parts of the game, or am I meant to think the entire game is perfect?
As a whole, I love GWs, but im not going to kiss ass and say its all perfect when I find something I dont like.
Russell.Crowe
the answer is... spoil victor!
Phades
1 assassin with wild strike and wild blow pretty much stops those nasty stances everyone here is upset about. If that option isn't available, using a warrior with wild blow and a paragon with wild throw is sufficient as well. If shiro does not keep up battle scars and impossible odds he goes down about 50% slower than the lich.
The only "difficult" part of that mission is not running into the middle of the ambush the lich sets up. That is just common sense stuff that should have learned much earlier in the game. Unforuntaly, not everyone played ch1 to know that and bothered with the densly packed mob areas in the southern shiver peaks either. Comparing the eras of the game, when ch1 was released it had far more difficult segements in it compared to ch3. The gates of madness was easier than the endurance match in thunderhead keep. Nothing in ch2 was that hard to complete, unless someone made a mistake. The only question was if it was done quickly enough for masters.
The only "difficult" part of that mission is not running into the middle of the ambush the lich sets up. That is just common sense stuff that should have learned much earlier in the game. Unforuntaly, not everyone played ch1 to know that and bothered with the densly packed mob areas in the southern shiver peaks either. Comparing the eras of the game, when ch1 was released it had far more difficult segements in it compared to ch3. The gates of madness was easier than the endurance match in thunderhead keep. Nothing in ch2 was that hard to complete, unless someone made a mistake. The only question was if it was done quickly enough for masters.
Orinn
Been stuck here for the last 10 hours now, just repeating the mission over and over. I'm duoing with a friend, we've finished prophecies and factions together.
And it's aggravating. Heros don't stay out of melee, so IO gets them all. The casters, the ranger, everyone. I've never so much wanted to literally put my fist through the monitor.
This isn't a challenge. there will be no celebration when it's over. All I will do is be happy that I am finally done. It's a chore. It's the game designers saying to the players "we can do whatever we want, we can make things impossible if we like, to hell with balance, immersion, or anything else that makes a game fun."
Before today, I told many people that they should buy Nightfall. I'm revising that view. Already told one frined that wants to pick it up, not to bother with it, because I know how he plays. He'd get frustrated with it and walk away.
And it's aggravating. Heros don't stay out of melee, so IO gets them all. The casters, the ranger, everyone. I've never so much wanted to literally put my fist through the monitor.
This isn't a challenge. there will be no celebration when it's over. All I will do is be happy that I am finally done. It's a chore. It's the game designers saying to the players "we can do whatever we want, we can make things impossible if we like, to hell with balance, immersion, or anything else that makes a game fun."
Before today, I told many people that they should buy Nightfall. I'm revising that view. Already told one frined that wants to pick it up, not to bother with it, because I know how he plays. He'd get frustrated with it and walk away.
-Loki-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orinn
And it's aggravating. Heros don't stay out of melee
Stop leaving them on aggressive stance then.
Karlos
Russell, Please read the thread's main entry at least before posting stuff like that. It's like you have no clue what you're talking about.
@ Orrin, if you put a character in "Passive" or "Pacifist" mode they will run away whenever a melee enemy comes at them.
@ Orrin, if you put a character in "Passive" or "Pacifist" mode they will run away whenever a melee enemy comes at them.
P A L P H R A M O N D
im not too sure i know what you are talking about. me, two guildies and heros beat this mission without capping the shrine in a few minutes, no problem, the first time. we only really did some intuitive body blocking, then let loose. my guild leader controlled his monks well, and the three of us (all paragons) destroyed him. frankly, i was almost a bit disappointed, he didnt seem anywhere near as hard as in factions. i agree with most of the above advice; if you can, take some real players with you, body block, decent prot on your tank, etc.
Kook~NBK~
Did the mission tonight with a PUG group. Had my Me/N set up with SS and Empathy + interrupts. Our Ranger had interrupts, as well. We had 2 heal monks, an Ele, stance tank, and can't remember who all else.
What we did was have the tank engage Shiro with 1 monk keeping him up, and the rest of us took out the Lich and went and capped shrines. When we got done, we came back and unloaded on Shiro - he lasted about a minute.
What we did was have the tank engage Shiro with 1 monk keeping him up, and the rest of us took out the Lich and went and capped shrines. When we got done, we came back and unloaded on Shiro - he lasted about a minute.
Orinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Loki-
Stop leaving them on aggressive stance then.
They haven't been on agressive stance since about 30 minutes into the NF preview. I don't like having my heros run outside of the aggro bubble to engage targets. When on "guard" they try to kite once in a while, but will more often stand right next to melee when they decide to wand. The monks especially (and no, no touch skills) will stand RIGHT BESIDE ME and try to wand shiro. While I'm in melee with him.
I've brought SV necro. Failed. Body-blocked: he teleported past and killed my monks. Brought SS + Empathy heros. Failed. I'm sick of this mission. I asked around, some people had been failing this mission for 2 WEEKS.
2 weeks to complets a single mission successfully? This isnt' fun. For the people who have the right build and passed it, great. We can't get past it, finally gave up after 12 hours. And I'm recommending to anyone now: don't bother buying Nightfall, it is obviously falling away from being a casual, fun game to pick up and play for a few hours at a time.
I've brought SV necro. Failed. Body-blocked: he teleported past and killed my monks. Brought SS + Empathy heros. Failed. I'm sick of this mission. I asked around, some people had been failing this mission for 2 WEEKS.
2 weeks to complets a single mission successfully? This isnt' fun. For the people who have the right build and passed it, great. We can't get past it, finally gave up after 12 hours. And I'm recommending to anyone now: don't bother buying Nightfall, it is obviously falling away from being a casual, fun game to pick up and play for a few hours at a time.
MaglorD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orinn
They haven't been on agressive stance since about 30 minutes into the NF preview. I don't like having my heros run outside of the aggro bubble to engage targets. When on "guard" they try to kite once in a while, but will more often stand right next to melee when they decide to wand. The monks especially (and no, no touch skills) will stand RIGHT BESIDE ME and try to wand shiro. While I'm in melee with him.
lol, you can stop them wanding him by removing their weapon
lol, you can stop them wanding him by removing their weapon
Shantel Span
I really could care less what people say about this, but me and my guild all love the challenge of the Realms of Torment...please, Anet, please, do NOT change anything of the difficulty of the Realms, it is WONDERFUL, and I hope the Elite mission will prove just as challenging!
Blackhawk
There's a difference between "Challenging" and "Ridiculous", I've not had too many problems with this mission with eiter my Necro or Paragon, case of having the right skills required I guess and reading up on how Shiro "works", but I can understand people getting frustrated considering how easy the Lich is to kill compared to Shiro who's capable of wiping out a team in seconds which does suggest maybe a little tweaks in order to give a team say without the characters/skills that make killing him easier half a chance.
Stormcloud
I found making Shiro follow you up into a shrine room eliminates the "open area" factor. Easy mission, easy boss. Just gotta know how to handle Shiro.
mrcake
It's meant to be challenging otherwise it would be pointless playing if you completed everything first try with ease.
But i do feel shiro has a feel of "i cant be botherd to think up some good ai and skill sets for him to use, so i will just give him the ultra rape skill impossible odds".
It's not like he fights clever, he is useless until 1/4 health then just takes the p**s still requiring no skill, if the average pug had a skill like impossible odds there would be zero failure rate in missions.
I beat him second attempt but thought it was stupid anyway.
On the subject of tough bosses.. Kormab, Burning Heart is rather overpowerd, him and 3 djins keep wiping my team of 8 almost instantly
But i do feel shiro has a feel of "i cant be botherd to think up some good ai and skill sets for him to use, so i will just give him the ultra rape skill impossible odds".
It's not like he fights clever, he is useless until 1/4 health then just takes the p**s still requiring no skill, if the average pug had a skill like impossible odds there would be zero failure rate in missions.
I beat him second attempt but thought it was stupid anyway.
On the subject of tough bosses.. Kormab, Burning Heart is rather overpowerd, him and 3 djins keep wiping my team of 8 almost instantly
kazjun
Getting a pug and failing the mission over and over - 3 hours
Taking your heroes and henches to complete the mission - 15 minutes
With heroes available you can't really complain about not having the right team member. If you got Olias, you can take master of whispers and have SV and SS and finish shiro in like 2 minutes. I'd advise that for anyone having trouble. Trust me, its easier that way.
Taking your heroes and henches to complete the mission - 15 minutes
With heroes available you can't really complain about not having the right team member. If you got Olias, you can take master of whispers and have SV and SS and finish shiro in like 2 minutes. I'd advise that for anyone having trouble. Trust me, its easier that way.
Phaern Majes
Beat him no problem with 3 monks and an aegis chain
frojack
I surely agree with you guys about this mission. It isn't that difficult as long as you have the right set-up. However, it would seem that having a Necromancer or Mesmer with either Spoil Victor, Spiteful Spirit, Insidious Parasite, or someone to spam Empathy is a little too 'niche' if you ask me, as without them, you are more or less doomed.
Think about the other classes for a second. Don't they have a right to be able to stop Shiro effectively without needing to sit around the Gate of Madness spamming "Group LF SS/SV necro to complete team. Also, throw in some monks while your at it". Henchmen aren't smart enough not to get themselves hammered without things like Reckless Haste or Wards all over the place, and their not smart enough to use the skills given to them either (hex before Feast of Corruption you retard).
Hell 4 of the 5 'uber' skills I've mentioned are not even available in Chapter 3! That is just 'bad' design. One of the skills that does exists in chapter 3 on one of the new classes that would have made Shiro 'easier' to beat, was actually left out of the game (unfortunately by accident). Still, thank the heavens for the elementalist Blindbot.
Sure it's hard, but it's more of a cheapo' difficulty with just an over-powered boss than anything else. Seriously, was the Lich ever that weak? No. He was weakened so much to try and off-set how ridiculous Shiro is (and I likes the Lich a lot more to)...
Think about the other classes for a second. Don't they have a right to be able to stop Shiro effectively without needing to sit around the Gate of Madness spamming "Group LF SS/SV necro to complete team. Also, throw in some monks while your at it". Henchmen aren't smart enough not to get themselves hammered without things like Reckless Haste or Wards all over the place, and their not smart enough to use the skills given to them either (hex before Feast of Corruption you retard).
Hell 4 of the 5 'uber' skills I've mentioned are not even available in Chapter 3! That is just 'bad' design. One of the skills that does exists in chapter 3 on one of the new classes that would have made Shiro 'easier' to beat, was actually left out of the game (unfortunately by accident). Still, thank the heavens for the elementalist Blindbot
Sure it's hard, but it's more of a cheapo' difficulty with just an over-powered boss than anything else. Seriously, was the Lich ever that weak? No. He was weakened so much to try and off-set how ridiculous Shiro is (and I likes the Lich a lot more to)...
kazjun
You don't need SV or SS, it just makes it quicker. You can do it as a warrior with riposte, deadly riposte and auspicious parry, carry some self healing and you can tank him, it'll just take a long time. Can't remember if its core or chapter specific but there's lots of other stuff you can use that aren't elites, like empathy, price of failure, insidious parasite. They just take longer.
If you don't mind being cheap, you could slap degen on him and run around till he dies. No fighting just degen him and kite till he dies. Or degen him and run outside the temple area. He just stops and runs back in, all while losing health. So just run in and out and hex him.
You can do that with henches and heroes too. Use the flags. You see shiro charging your monk/ele/necro? Flag them outside the temple and they'll run. Easy as.
And you don't need to sit around for an hour, spamming LFG, just grab a hero. They're always around and you can set them up however you like. Its what I ended up doing, much easier and quicker. And you can get a balanced party rather than 6 derves and maybe a monk and his healing hero. Playing with people is much more interesting, but if you want to finish easy, go the heroes, thats what they're for.
If you don't mind being cheap, you could slap degen on him and run around till he dies. No fighting just degen him and kite till he dies. Or degen him and run outside the temple area. He just stops and runs back in, all while losing health. So just run in and out and hex him.
You can do that with henches and heroes too. Use the flags. You see shiro charging your monk/ele/necro? Flag them outside the temple and they'll run. Easy as.
And you don't need to sit around for an hour, spamming LFG, just grab a hero. They're always around and you can set them up however you like. Its what I ended up doing, much easier and quicker. And you can get a balanced party rather than 6 derves and maybe a monk and his healing hero. Playing with people is much more interesting, but if you want to finish easy, go the heroes, thats what they're for.
frojack
Yeah your right. I'm just pissed the Lich isn't cooler ^_^. He's so much cooler than Shiro...
Lord Sojar
Quote:
Originally Posted by frojack
Yeah your right. I'm just pissed the Lich isn't cooler ^_^. He's so much cooler than Shiro...
Lich > Shiro. The Lich would WAND you for 150-300 damage. Shiro has to use skills and hax to do that. Shiro, you suck. + the lich could teleport you into lava. ANd if you didnt kill him on the Exact Center of the bloodstone, back he came for round 2. Shiro dies, he stays dead. GG Shiro.
Quid Pro Quo
Definetly a hard mission but probably one of the most satisfiying missions ever.
Took me 3 tries to finally beat this. First time was with the normal build before I knew Shiro would appear then once, I died.
I changed by builds to knock off his stances, blind him and make him kill himself when he DID attack. He still managed to kill us but we almost got him.
Last time we decided to head to the shrines and finally with all the bonuses on him we got him down to 1/5 health then a bunch of us whiped leaving 3 standing.
Luckly my ranger had blinded him just long enough to get everyone up and finish him off once and for all.
Was very awesome. Now I'm on the last mission and its even more fun so far. (Just took henchies to check it out and plan ahead.)
Thank you Anet.
Took me 3 tries to finally beat this. First time was with the normal build before I knew Shiro would appear then once, I died.
I changed by builds to knock off his stances, blind him and make him kill himself when he DID attack. He still managed to kill us but we almost got him.
Last time we decided to head to the shrines and finally with all the bonuses on him we got him down to 1/5 health then a bunch of us whiped leaving 3 standing.
Luckly my ranger had blinded him just long enough to get everyone up and finish him off once and for all.
Was very awesome. Now I'm on the last mission and its even more fun so far. (Just took henchies to check it out and plan ahead.)
Thank you Anet.
leprekan
Uh, the mission is as hard as THK ... aka it is only hard if people make it that way. Just hit masters on it with hero and one human team. Had master of whispers set as a spoil victor monk. As we ran around doing bonus shirp kited along and mr.whispers kept him almost dead the entire time with just spoil victor. After bonus was complete then it was 8 on 1 and gg for shiro.
waywrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by P A L P H R A M O N D
he didnt seem anywhere near as hard as in factions
You mean where you only needed 4 skills to beat him and he can be dropped in 30 seconds?
Infinity^
I managed the mission with a PUG (yes, you can still find decent PUGs now and again) in the first week of release. No-one had any prior knowledge of the mission (we spent at least 30 minutes killing titans before deciding we should get rid of a few portals) and no SV. During the battle with Shiro we went down to all but 2 players and had to retake all the shrines. But we still managed it, and it was one of the best missions ive taken part in. All you need is people who know how to play the game and know how to kite.
Hopefully all the moaning about this mission wont turn it into another THK.
Hopefully all the moaning about this mission wont turn it into another THK.
nSin
I dislike missions that almost require you to bring specific skills, I also don't think that shiro was actually a hard boss, just at 1/4th health he suddenly does something that is totally out of proportion.
I would rather have them making it an actual hard fight add in 6 champions or something ( bosses from previous chapters) so you can have a nice 8v8 fight that takes a while to beat. These 2 bosses from which one is a joke, and the other is a joke till 1/4th hp really don't turn me on.
I would rather have them making it an actual hard fight add in 6 champions or something ( bosses from previous chapters) so you can have a nice 8v8 fight that takes a while to beat. These 2 bosses from which one is a joke, and the other is a joke till 1/4th hp really don't turn me on.
MegaMouse
Heres my rant. Shiro is way too powerful in this mission. My main character is a nuker and I have him at Lightbringer lvl 4 so most of the enemies fall to my feet pretty easy. And then there is Shiromocking me and just running away from everything that I throw at him. Not oly does this po me to no end but I have been in 4 real good teams and we have cleared out everything and activated the 5 gods but shiro stills takes us out every time. He needs to be toned down the chalenge is too great even when you have a group with 2 Nukers in it. If Shiro wouldnt kite everytime you fart at him then it would be better, as it is the difficulty is way off the scale. Thi needs fixed.
Mega Mouse
Mega Mouse
Orinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcake
But i do feel shiro has a feel of "i cant be botherd to think up some good ai and skill sets for him to use, so i will just give him the ultra rape skill impossible odds".
It's not like he fights clever, he is useless until 1/4 health then just takes the p**s still requiring no skill this is what bugs me most about Shiro. it FEELS like he's just simply cheating. It's not the "I Win!" button, but it's awfully close. Challenging, fine, but don't just throw a few completely bull**** skills on a mob and call it a day. Make them smart, give them options that involve skills that WE can use as well. Most of the "monster-only" skills just feel like lazy design, as though the developers didn't care enough to actually make something a legitimate challenge, so they just ignored the rules they made up, and gave the mobs whatever...
It's not like he fights clever, he is useless until 1/4 health then just takes the p**s still requiring no skill this is what bugs me most about Shiro. it FEELS like he's just simply cheating. It's not the "I Win!" button, but it's awfully close. Challenging, fine, but don't just throw a few completely bull**** skills on a mob and call it a day. Make them smart, give them options that involve skills that WE can use as well. Most of the "monster-only" skills just feel like lazy design, as though the developers didn't care enough to actually make something a legitimate challenge, so they just ignored the rules they made up, and gave the mobs whatever...
Avarre
It doesn't matter what skills you give a mob, 8 on 1 will never be fair if you confine them to the same restrictions as players have.
Impossible Odds is not hard to counter as it is, in the end, just a melee attack.
Impossible Odds is not hard to counter as it is, in the end, just a melee attack.
Drazilus
Wards, Aegis and hexes like Blurred Vision works wonders against Shiro. With those you wont even need SV or SS in this fight. Blindness also works on him but he just sends it back to you if hi manages to hit.
Otherwise the mission is easily done too. I really have more difficulties with Stone Summit dwarves, than those torment creatures or pathetic margonites.
Otherwise the mission is easily done too. I really have more difficulties with Stone Summit dwarves, than those torment creatures or pathetic margonites.
Amity and Truth
Interestingly enough, on my monk i had zero problems with this mission and couldn't understand the whole ruckus about this mission. Now second time around, on my dervish i can.
Even with Wildblow and evasion stances, there is the point when all of a sudden everyone is just dead and going like "wtf?!". And the most frustrating part about this is that you'll have to endure the whole mission everytime. Again and again and again. The frustrating part is neither the mission nor Shiro. The frustrating part is the combination of both.
Frustration derives from the fact that you're fighting for 30 minutes plus only to be wiped in 2 seconds when he uses his skills. Especially bad about this is that he starts owning at 25%, a point where everyone is like "DAMN, we nearly had him!".
Even with Wildblow and evasion stances, there is the point when all of a sudden everyone is just dead and going like "wtf?!". And the most frustrating part about this is that you'll have to endure the whole mission everytime. Again and again and again. The frustrating part is neither the mission nor Shiro. The frustrating part is the combination of both.
Frustration derives from the fact that you're fighting for 30 minutes plus only to be wiped in 2 seconds when he uses his skills. Especially bad about this is that he starts owning at 25%, a point where everyone is like "DAMN, we nearly had him!".
EPO Bot
I got a pug with only players yesterday, and Shiro couldn't kill anyone. Just scatter in all directions when he IO's and let the (kiting) ranged attackers deal with him.
The melees are good to keep Shiro busy wile the rest wakes up the gods.
The melees are good to keep Shiro busy wile the rest wakes up the gods.