64-bit processor and 4gb ram question

I plan on purchasing a new system equipped with Intel dual core 2.4ghz and 4gb of memory, and 1gb GeForce 7950 GX2 but from what I understand I need a 64 bit processor and 64 bit OS to fully make use of 4gb of memory. I'm no expert at this, so howcan I tell if an OS and an intel chip is 64 bit?

And is Guild Wars, multi-threaded?

For Guild Wars I use:
Intel P4 2.4ghz
512mb ram
ATI Radeon 9700
XP SP2 (not sure how many bit)
Broadband

I am struggling with guild wars, most likely due to memory even at lowest settings. I'd like to be able to enjoy playing at high settings without compromising fraps. And after reading the many reviews for MS Flight Simulator X, many complaints come from an extreme requirement (more intense than Quake 4) to properly run MS Flight Simulator X at high settings and make it look like the screenshots even though the minimum req. is 1ghz, 1gb ram and 256mb radeon/geforce series). The latest dual cores, 4gb of ram and dual card of radeon/geforce sli/crossfire was figured to be a gurantee, some say that the kind of hardware Microsoft demands isnt even out yet. But if it turns out I won't be able to play FS X properly with the new system , Ill still be happy now that I can play Guild Wars: NF and FS 2004 very smoothly with voice comm!

Thank you in advance!

Windows XP 64 or Vista 64 bit is required to support anything past 4 gb of memory.
XP with 1gb of memory is blazing fast. Vista with 2gb is very fast as well.

I would stick with 32 bit xp or vista.. there is not enough hardware/software support for 64bit.

Why not wait for a directx 10 card equipped system with vista? Seems like you're not going by budget..

I agree with the other guys, and would also cut back to 2GB of memory, I have no idea why youd need that much, you really wont notice any gains. By the time programs require even 2 GB of memory, the memory speeds will be a good bit faster than they are now. So, Id say just get 2GB, and wait till more memory is more necessary than now.

GW isnt programmed for improved performance on a 64-bit, same way it isnt set up to work with dual-cored processors. it still works, just not better

lol...

Another overkill system...

Wrath Of Demons:
How do you know that GW isn't set up for multiprocessor setups? GW is multithreaded, at least it has asynchronous texture and ( i guess ) model loads. Any sufficiently well implemented multithreaded program should run better on a Core2 than e.g. on a P4.

Dookie:
Get a Core2 and a nVidia 8xxx-Card. And ( as said before ) you really don't need more than 2 GB atm.

OP you would be better waiting until all the DX 10 stuff comes out with windows vista buying a new system now is just plain stupid when everything will be going on to DX10 plus it pays to plan for the future and you won't have to upgrade again in a years time.

Bloodthorn: In case you haven't noticed, the Geforce 8xxx Series ( atm the Geforce 8800 ) is fully dx10 compliant.

Are you having the problems all the time or just at certain times of day?

Most people's problems with GW have to do with bandwidth. Cable and DSL companies oversell their bandwidth. They assume that all customers will not be on-line at the same time. Of course, like with street traffic, there are times of the day when the majority of the area customers are on-line and your bandwidth is cut back.

I have screen loading problems at night, but not in the early morning. Thus it's not my machine's RAM (512MB), video card (NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200) or processor (AMD Athlon 1700+).

Overkill? Why must everyone here assume that everyone only plays Guild Wars. You need a system like that to play most of the newer games. GW being an exception cause Anet wants people with lower grade computer to still be able to play.

The Gforce 8800 is not fully supported and the drivers are a bit buggy at the moment plus they are rather expencive at the moment it would be best to wait un till next year when more DX10 cards start to come out and the drivers are more stable and the price will of drop as well.

Did my other post get deleted.

All I remember is making a comment about how 4 gigs of RAM is not needed for the current gaming setups.

Unless of course you want one of those $26,000 Quad nVidia workstations.

A high end dual core system (intel duo core 2) with 4gb of ram would be nice for future proofing, for example the version of windows in development slated for 3 years after Vista launch, you will probable meet the min or it runs ok system requirements with the high end rig now.

Steve Balmar (ceo MS) has stated they want to go back to the 3 year new OS cycle.

I have an E6600 Core2Duo, GF 8800GTS, with 2Gbs of RAM, and of course Guild Wars runs like a dream.

I'm not sure how it would even be possible to run it better...

If your main games are Guild Wars and Microsoft FS, definitely go with the 8800GTS or 8800GTX if you have the cash.

The GTS runs slightly above the 7900GX2, and once Direct3D X comes out, it'll blow it away.

Livingston

There is such a thing as to much "future proofing". Having 4 GB of DDR2 RAM at this time is really overkill, unless you are useing apps that can really use that much RAM.

Myself, I tend to prefer getting "enough for current needs", then upgrading at a future time. When I built my system in 2004, 512MB of DDR3200 was just fine. Last year, I upgraded to 1 GB for about half the cost of my original 512. At this time, I generally encourage buyers to get 1-2GB (depending on need), and hold off on the 4 GB until next year, when the prices will surely drop (they always do 2-4 months after a new Windows release).

And for the people reccomending the 8800, I suggest holding off for a similar reason. Right now, the 8800 is the only card of it's kind, a "Version 1 release" if I ever saw one. And most people in the industry will tell you to be very cautious of first releases. Wait until they get all of the bugs out, and you have some competition to drive the price down to a reasonable level.

And at a starting cost of $450, the 8800 is hardly cheap. I would bet that within 3 months, it will be at least 15% cheaper then it is now. By this time next year, it will probably be a sub-$200 card sitting with the "next gen budget cards". Not to mention that it is not fully "DirecX 10" compliant, simply because Vista and DirecX 10 is not out yet. It falls among all those "Pre 802.11N Routers", where they are guessing the requirements will be.

Those of us around during the initial move to 9600 baud and 56k modems can tell you all about how items expected to meet future standards often fall well short of the mark.

Windows xp pro 32-bit

4GB of RAM. But only 2GB can be used toward applications unless you change the boot.ini file. Even then it can only use 3GB, not the full 4GB.

/PAE in the boot ini , gives 3gig total
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system...AE/PAEdrv.mspx

/3GB in the boot ini , gives the User full 3gig total
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system...AE/PAEmem.mspx


So really unless the app you want to run uses IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE (means the program was written to support 3 gigs) in the process header 2 gigs is good enough not to mention that video card will be added on so you are really limited to a total of 2 gigs if you go with the 32-bit

Really i would wait till after Jan 30 2007 before i purchase any new computers. And if you decide to go to 64-bit be ready for some program/driver incompatibilities, but in my testings most of the everyday stuff works fine. If you go with vista 64-bit it will break more programs then the winxp 64-bit.

Vista
Home Basic 8 Gigs Ram 32bit and 64 bit
Home Premum 16 Gigs Ram 32bit and 64Bit
Rest of the editions are Max physical
http://winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_editions.asp


Yes i know 32-bit max is 4 gig .. /PAE can support up to 64GB physical memory. A 32-bit process can use a large amounts of memory via address windowing extension functions. This means that they must map views of the physical memory they allocate into their 2GB virtual address space. So each process is still limited to 2gigs just you can have more processes running.
http://www.brianmadden.com/content/content.asp?ID=69

Pentium 4s using the E0 revision of the Prescott core and up i think for 64-bit processors on the intel side..
Duo2 is a nice family to start with.

i dont see why ure having problems with guild wars atm
i used to play gw with a similar configuration: P4 2.4, 512Mb DDR 2100 (slow ddr yeah :P), geforce fx 5900xt and 56k
with that i was able to play with maximum settings
now im using a AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1GB ddr 3200, still with the fx 5900xt(gonna upgrade to a 8XXX when they release them) and broadband
ive never played guild wars with less than maximum settings and ive never lagged once, well maybe back in the 56k days but i cant remember
id suggest waiting a bit for prices drop if you want to buy a new comp and nvidia to release other 8XXX serie video cards

I'm happy to that statement, that means Nvidia DX 10 card still does great job on DX 9 under xp. One of my fears would be DX 10 rock, but DX 9 takes a hardware hit / change and not as good as previous gen.

It think the big thing is other games. I would love to play oblivion at full rez / settings on my widescreen 20" LCD it's still very impressive but with better video I know I can pump it higher.

Most likely it's your CPU and ram that's limiting your system for Guildwars, though looking at your specifications, it can't be that bad.

Guildwars isn't really GPU intensive.

PM me, I can build you a custom system if your shaky on it, and ship it to you. I do this for a living. Charge is not very high, if you are interested, please PM me. Don't build your own high end system unless you know exactly how to do so, it is quite risky. The issue with FS X is not the requirements being so high, it is that most high end systems are not configured correctly and lack sufficient cooling.

Otherwise, if you are confident in your abilities, then I shall present you a part list I use for my XR System. Enjoy!

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115002
The EE Edition of the Conroe is a bit overrated. Honestly, with virtualization on both of these models, this is the better choice. You can easily push the gates to 3GHz and upwards. The pipeline design on the Conroe is short, but fat. 65nm SOI doesnt allow much entropy leakage like the old Prescotts and Norths, so the cooling I will put below will be MORE THEN ENOUGH for a nice Overclock provided you do it correctly and raise the bridge voltages correctly.

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227159
This system looks @ the fundamentals of the Conroe processor and its incaching design, as well as its lack of DMA. Latency on the RAM isn't too big of a deal with this, so high speed RAM to take advantage of the high FSB unmultiplied. HOWEVER, the new uneven Bused RAMs have some quirks, and are vastly unstable due to gate closures and passbar overpasses happening too frequently. I would not recommend exceeding PC8800 ATM. It also has a very high volt threshold for a 2A mapped RAM, so it can take the heat. GSkill has always been a favorite of mine. I would highly recommend you go with this.

Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131074
Ok, this board isn't cheap, but I have built 19 systems from this guy (that is why newegg is sold out btw....) This board is solid. The cooling is a bit passive, but it does well for being just that, passive. The bridge controllers are extremely well placed, allowing room for an 8800GTS/GTX. @ 10+ inches, these cards tend to smash into the NB1 controller and create some heat build. Honestly, this board was designed for a kickass system, which is what my XR is, an elite gaming system.

GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130072
I have had nothing but luck with the over 800 eVga cards i have utilized in system building. They are extremely stable, and have all copper cooling, which helps keep the 8800GTX's heat in check. They honestly have something about them that sets them apart. It may be eVGAs silicon spin on their controller chips, the layout of the RAMDACs, or maybe their warranty. Something sets them apart. WARNING: The GTX is has some issues with being somewhat of a power hog. They require 2x 6Pin connectors to power correctly and perform @ some level of stability. So, a word of warning, if you use a PSU different from that one I am about to recommend below, Buyer Beware....


Powersupply (PSU): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817256006
There is trick to rigging the 8800GTX to this PSU. You connect ONE PCIe 6pin to BOTH cards, not only one card, and then use two of the provided splitters to split 2 molex connectors. Plug one section of each split into the missing connector area on each card. This will provide more stability. The 18A rails are quad, meaning you will have 1 rail per connector on the GPUs, which is PERFECT.

Case: (this is totally your own taste here, just make sure it is BIG, tall, and not too wide) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133012
The secret to case selection is looking @ airflow. The airflow in the Eureka is amazing from my experiences with this case. I have never had an issue with it, and probably never will. Cooling can easily fit inside this case with ease, and it has a neat design if you ask me. The chassis allows for heavy modding if your into it. It is a heavy case though, so watch those hernias.

Soundcard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102005
Totally optional, but the X-Fi with onboard XRam take some load of the CPU allowing it to focus on more important issues, like crunching numbers for the complex new games' coding. Note however, XRAM is only supported by specific games, but that list is growing. The Crytallizer is amazing technology, and for an audiophile or gaming freak, this is a must. The MP3 playback is superb. Trust me, worthwhile investment without being overkill. I use it personally, and love it.

NOW! Those are the major components, but I must say, now the funny really starts. The small stuff is just as important if not more so. The cooling, thermal compound, and looks are important. Well, looks may not be to you, but TRUE GAMERS have cases to match their personality!

Ok, so let's begin the end!

Cooling! : http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...&cat=65&page=1
This is an all in one package for a beginner or novice liquid cooling installer. The kit includes a lot of high quality pieces without having to do a lot of hastle or setup. The Tygon tubing is the best, and does a great job. 1/2 in will keep this chilly if mounted correctly. This set also includes AS5, which is conductive, so be careful..

Thermal Compound: (if you dont feel confortable using Arctic Silver 5 from DangerDen kit above).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835100401
It is completely non conductive, so no worries on frying circuits. However, it is a bit tedious to apply. It is quick viscous, and acts like sticky tac. Apply quickly, spread just enough evenly, and finish fast. It won't be an issue if you do that.


I hope this helps out. Again, if you don't feel confident in building this yourself, please PM me and I can arrange a system to be built for you and shipped. Turnover is about 4 weeks, quality is unmatched. I will preinstall Guild Wars for ya too and download all files! ZOMG, TY T3!

Cheers,

Rahja.

If you're getting an Intel dual-core, it's not 64-bit.

Rule of thumb is Intel = dual and AMD = 64 nowadays, there are exceptions, but that's just the main difference in Intel and AMD's visions on what's the best way to go by.

Also, 4GB is overkill, ESPECIALLY with 32-bit, which your dual-core would be.

To get the most out of 64-bit you need:
- A 64-bit CPU, duh.
- A 64-bit operating system.
- 64-bit software (meaning you'd still require a special 64-bit version of Guild Wars which I'm not sure ArenaNet even has any plans for at all yet).
- 4GB of memory TOTAL, that is physical memory and pagefile combined - so even in that case 4GB physical memory would not be required).

An acquaintance/client of mine is the Microsoft guy in charge of rolling out Vista and Office 2007 in the US. (Make that one of the guys in charge; at big companies, lots of people can be realistically described as "in charge" of the same thing.)

He's offering to give me Vista and Office for free. Interestingly, he says I should have at least 2 gigs of RAM, and preferably 4.

Actually, the Conroe chips run at full 64bit I/O. The Pentium M did not orginally, and EM64 was a joke. However, after they updated their crossbar switch, all that changed. Now, they are indeed 64bit. EMT64 is the new version of EM64, that uses a direct crossbar access to the RAM @ 64bit calculations. A different system then the AMD Athlon 64s. I am an AMD fan myself, and will never use an Intel processor again, but the Intel Core 2 Duo processors do outperfom the current AM2 offerings.

Rahja, I expected to have to n00bsmack, but that's a good system.

I would look into the IB9-MAX when it's released though. Cheaper, and will most likely be the stability king of 680i.

I wanna revisit this after work. There is much for me to say here with my hands on next gen ATM...

Lol, I didn't say Intel works exclusively on 32-bit and apart from that, typically, when talking about 32-bit and 64-bit we're not talking about an external databus which has been 64-bit for ages.

Intel's EMT64 bit is a totally internal 64bit system, with their thread crossbar manipulating each core as an independent rather then the old EM64 dependant.

AMD and Intel both have full 64bit instruction set execution and implementation. Which is better is a matter of opinion. Tests show they are now on the same level in 64bit processing (not jsut external BUS, but cyclic also).

Come on Rahja, now you do it again...

Why don't you read what I'm saying before responding to it?

Nice.

However, C2D is still faster clock for clock, so we pick it.

And as far as boards, I'd still go with a 975x. 680i can take FSB faster, but with no performance gain, so moot point. If it's not faster to be faster, then I say screw it.

I go with nVidia chipsets over Intel's. They provide a more cross product stability, and not only that, SLi is a big plus. The 680 has an amazing stability factor, only BadAxe has something similar in respects to Intel's lineup.

Conroe > AMD atm.. agreed (horrible I know, I <3 AMD sooo much.... )

Nice system Rahja, but expensive....Most gamers, even hard core ones, aren't billionaires

1) Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Conroe is an awesome processor but still a bit pricey at around $500. The E6600 is also good and offers prolly the best bang for the buck right now at around $300.

2) Holy cow, $430 for a moboard!!!? For about half the price, wouldn't eVGA's brand new 122-CK-NF68-AR socket T nVidia 680i sli moboard suit the needs of most gamers?

3) Damn, even your RAM is expensive at over $400 for 2x1GB sticks. 2x1GB Dominator sticks from Corsair would cost almost $100 less.

4) I don't know much about Silverstone PSU's never having owned one, but I just bought a Thermaltake W0117RU ATX 12V/E PS12V 750W power supply for the machine I'm building now. It was about $20 less than the one you recommend.


The one point I totally 100% agree with you on is the video card. $650 is a lot of dough to spend on a single computer component, but if it's an eVGA GeForce 8800GTX it's money very well spent. At this point, spending money on anything that isn't dx10 compliant is like throwing money away.

He said he didn't have a budget. LOLZ. I gave him the top of the line system I build for people minus an extra 2GBs of RAM and harddrives and Extreme Ed CPU.

@ your statement on RAM: I wouldn't own Corsair RAM if you paid me. Personal thing and the fact that I have had a total of 81 sticks DoA, and 43 defective in some sector or another post install. I discontinued Corsair and will never use it again. However, the Dominator series are on a new DDR2 speed barrier that uses those strange MHz numbers that are not even. No thanks, uneven numbers scare me for stability and clock reliability. I will totally pass on Corsair RAM until they improve it. There is a reason its cheap to buy.... because its CHEAP. :P

The best RAM I have ever had the pleasure of using is this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146563

Ballistix is amazing RAM, its 1XA design is second to none, and it runs icy cold compared to Mushkin Redline and OCZ Gold/Plat. Corsair runs rly hot also. Ballistix can be VERY PICKY, due to its transistors being of the Micro, not Samsung. While Samsung is good, they run hot. Micron's fab run cooler and can exceed speed thresholds better, but they dont like rly rly high voltages. That is the give/take here.

actually, it is a bit overkill since you really CANT finat a game that will req. 4gb ram and 1gb vid card to run...

you could probably run stuff like FEAR on max with a 2gb system along with ati radeon x1650xt or higher(overclock if needed)

if it was just for GW I'd say upgrade your RAM. my comp at home played Prophecies perfectly then factions came out and that was very sluggish, another 512MB of RAM fixed that and its a lot better, so if your looking for an immediate fix start there. I know nothing about FS X but judging from the comments here I would say dont rush into buying a new system,

If you want a reason to buy a DX 10 card NOW, here's a few.

PREY
Oblivion
Sims 2 (X1900XTX crossfire can get lagged at high resolutions)
FEAR Extraction Point

And don't forget Crysis on the way...

Hmmm I cant see why you would be having troubles playing guild wars at max on your system.
My system is now a few years old:
amd xp2600+
1 gig of kingston ram
wxp sp2
nvidia fx 5600 ultra
nvidia ultra 400II msi mobo
I run gw at maz with 4x aa with no problems what so ever.
When was the las time you defraged your hard drive?
That could be the cause of all your problems.

just warning to everyone winxp will not support dx10, but the games still scream with dx10 hardware.

I run gw at the max settings with no problems with my simple laptop:

Amd sempron 3000+
512 MB ram
Ati mobility radeon X700 (128Mb vram)

but there are a few things that may lag ANY computer:

1 Spyware (download ad-aware or the far superior hitman pro which are bot free)
2 virusses (download something like avg antivirus, free but better than norton )
3 not having defragmentated your computer: Just run the defrag of windows for a little or big performance boost
4 virus scanners are also some sort of lag generators, this is because they are scanning everything you do, and trough this they may cause lag.
solution to this: It isn't the best solution, but disabling (while being sure that NOTHING ELSE runs next to gw) may give you a little less lag
5 Press Ctrl-alt-del and see what is running (under services ), don't do anything yet, but try to post it on this forum and we can look if some of those applications may be shut down

yeah, i hate lag too

Let me clear up a very common mistake.


Although many systems will run Guild Wars @ Max with decent FPS will all settings maxed, they are not truly running some of those settings.

Example. If a card doesnt support a certain shader, it will ignore the command to produce it, and you will never see that that shader was supposed to be there.

Of course, this only applies to a certain point. A 6800Ultra will make Guildwars look the same as an 8800GTX would. However, in FEAR, story is different.

Hope this helps clarify that common misconception.

Has nobody here heard of Assassin's Creed? It's gonna have req that surpass FEAR's by quite a bit.

Jeez people..