PvP Stacked Penalties for leaving a game

I was playing Random Arenas this afternoon...and nothing bothers me more than people who leave for no reason. If there's any possibility of a loss, people just map out (and the map out usually occurs when our team pulls ahead again.)

People leave when you revive them.

People leave if there's no monk in the party.

And if one person leaves, the rest leave or don't even try.

In a 4v3, 4v2, etc. match, the team with four people will win 99% of the time.

I have two solutions, one or both of which must be implemented as soon as possible. Both involve punishing the quitters (because the henchmen replacement idea won't cut down on the amount of quitters. There should be punishments.):

1. Transfer 100-1000 Gold/Faction from the quitter's account to each of the rest of the team's accounts. This can be incremental (increasing with each offense, like buying skills: 0, 50, 100, 500, etc.). This would maybe be the PvE solution.

2. Create an incremental time ban from PvP activies (for the entire account). The first time someone leaves before or during a match: no penalty. After the first time: x+5 minute increase. (5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, etc.) or maybe a 2x increase (5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, etc.). This is the PvP solution.

Incremental penalties are reset after a certain period of time (day?).

The only legal way to quit without incurring penalty should be with the "/resign" command. (ADDITION: And after a significant amount of time and if the team is outnumbered significantly) And of course, people should be able to leave after winning/losing a game (that time period between matches).

About people who get "Error 7'ed": That's why the penalties increase. You would still be punished, but hopefully you aren't disconnected often enough to get into the higher penalties.

EDIT: I just now noticed a similar thread, but this doesn't only apply to RA. It applies to all PvP and all PvE components.

/not signed

Sorry, there are legitimate reasons for leaving in Random Arenas.

TBH, the ability for anyone to get Gladiator Points from RA sucks. Scrubs with no clue can attain and have attained high Gladiator ranks, just from farming RA. Remove Gladiator Points from Random Arenas, and you remove many reasons for quitting. You make players who actualy played in organised teams against players who had half a clue happier, too. Downside? Bad players complain because they can't get Gladiator titles anymore.

What would these be? Why even begin to join a game if you're just going to leave it? It benefits nobody and having no punishment makes no sense.

Unfortunately, getting Gladiator titles in Random arena not only requires skill, it requires the additional factor of getting lucky enough to not get stuck on a team with a loser who will just leave. Just because someone plays RA doesn't make them a bad player. Getting 10 wins in a row takes skill even if it is against random teams.

But this is aside the point from RA in general. This is for all modes of PvP and even PvE.

EDIT: Are you also saying that because, in your eyes, Random Arenas aren't "worthy" for whatever reason, the people playing in them don't deserve justice?

No.... /notsigned

Ever here of error 7's, power outs, emergency situations, etc. Theres your legitimate reason's. I've seen other threads like this. It just won't be added. Theres no way. If you start punishing people for "leaveing" PvP they will get annoyed with Anet and annoyed at the game itself. The problem with this kind of thing is you never know if its on purpose or accidental....

These would be ridiculus. First one would almost be like stealing(ALMOST). Second one is not good either. Also because there are no rules of any kind stating "you can't leave PvP match's", suddenly punishing people for it is not logical.

Why it won't be implimented. Anet should(and will) not add something that punish's everyone(accidental or on purpose)...... You can't punish people for Error 7's.

EDIT: And as Xiao1985 said below me, there is also the problem of "stalmates".

Brother Gilburt

/not signed...

has being suggested before, and personally, i WOULD map out, if i was teamed with 3 other monks and i am a monk... you COULD stay and waste 20 minutes on a draw match (which by the way, happened and was EXTREMELY boring) when you see ppl map out, you could map out too... it's called random for a reason

Yes, I've heard of those. That's why the punishment is stacked, and then reset after a period of time (such as a day or something). The first time the "disconnect" happens, there is NO penalty. That would account for the daily "emergency situation." The second time it happens, you only lose 5 minutes. If your power goes out, by the time it's running and the computer is restarted, it's been five minutes.

Emergency situations probably require someone to be away from the game for longer than 5 minutes too.

And, if my some magical occurence that you get an error 7, a power out, an emergency, and something from the etc. pile all in the same day, you'd only lose half an hour of PvP time, which you are likely spending dealing with the situation that made you leave the match in the first place.

Alright, say after...7-10 minutes the penalty is lifted? Also if your team has 50-75% of the members as the other team, then it would be lifted? Would that fix things?

Such a system actually exist on another game platform namely Gunbound. And it still happens alot there not because players want to grief each other when infact everyone is keen on playing but rather from Lag quits and they are punished for it.

Theres an identical thread here that is either on the front or second page, use search ^^. Damn I wanna be an admin so I can close repeated thread lol. Anyways, consider it closed if you obey the rules

1. Horrible teammates. Yes, there are alot of bad players in Random Arenas. See 3 players on your team who will do no damage, but take forever to die? Not in the mood for a few 15 minute + games?

2. Sub level 20 teammates. More of a subcategory of number one, but...

3. Horrible team. Not with just horrible players in it, but a team with a Defensive rit, and 3 healing/protection Monks, for exmaple. Want to win every match because the opposition is forced into quitting because you can't win, and they can't win either?

4. Going to form an organised group for somthing else.

5. Getting harrased by someone in your team.

Leaving benefits you. A Warrior/Monk with Gladiator's Defense and 7 other self defense skills does not benefit you, or anyone else. People play Random Arenas to have fun. Being stuck with very bad teams, for whatever reason, is not fun at all for many players. Being stuck with a team that can't win matches in any timely manner is also not fun for many players.

So, I should be punished because last time I had a level 14 on my team I quit, and hit the Enter Battle button again? I think the level 14 that entered should be punished in some fashion for entering, after all he's runing MY gameplay, and you want to punish me for ruining his!

That is an absolute fabrication. How does it require skill to win in Random Arenas? I've gotten Gladiator points in Randoms with AFK players the whole way there, sub-level 20s, and Ranger/Elementalists spamming Flare... Did they have leet afk skills? Was the C+Spacebar flare spammer good at the game? I think not.

Say, what about sync entering? Does that take Skill? 3... 2... 1... Enter? *clicks button* Damn, that was hard. You know, even people who sync enter are pretty horrible. I faced a guild who enter spiked 3 players last night in Random Arenas. I've seen the same guild get 4 people on a team. I've seen others do it too. Hell, you don't even need voice chat to sync enter, it can be done via Guild Chat, Alliance Chat, or Whisper. Or even All chat for that matter...

Hmm, you already recognise that some players RQ teams that are poor in hopes of getting a Gladiator Point(one of many reasons). Are they skilled because they can find a team to carry them to 10 wins?

You're right that just because someone plays RA that they're not a horrible player. Many very good players play RA sometimes. However, your average Random Arenas player is a horrible player. Some can actually improve, and are new at Guild Wars. Alot(and by alot I mean the overwhelming majority) are simply lifelong scrubs who are unable to improve because they simply refuse to, and are still running W/Mos with 8 stances even though they've had the game for over 17 months.

Skill is a factor in Random Arenas, sure. But the fact remains that almost everyone there has none, and aren't even running good builds. It turns into which poor player can run a build that pwns other poor players better. Then you have fairly descent players, who are playing because of boredom and if you get one, or even two of them on a team you're guarnteed 10 wins. Even if your other two players are W/Mos with 0 swordsmanship running Dolyak Signet and telling the other team that they're noobs because they kite.


Let's face it, getting Gladiator Points from Random Arenas requries little to no skill. Skill helps, but you honestly do not need an ounce of it to get one. I've seen several players with Gladiator 3+ in Team Arenas that have gotten it all from Random Arenas. They suck. Badly. Infact about a week ago I pugged a guy with Gladiator 4, which is somthing I rarely do(desperation FTL). He had a descent bar, and a descent Gladaitor Rank to go with it... Turns out he did not kite, and he used his antimelee skills on their casters. He admitted to getting all the points except two by sync entering Random Arenas after we lost, after which I kicked him. I was simply going to kick him anyway, but I was honestly puzzled by how he got Glad 4 and wanted to know...

...

Everywhere except Alliance Battles, Fort Aspenwood, and Random Arenas you get to pick your entire team. Those three areas are random. Fort Aspenwood and Alliance Battles are all but dead, and aren't even honestly PvP content as far as most PvPers are concerned.

As far as I am concerned, if you allow a player prone to ragequitting into your group, it is your fault. Either way, would you rather have a player that quit out on you, leaving you one man down, or have a player who won't quit out on you because they don't want to suffer, and instead get your party killed so they can safely leave your group? I'd rather have the guy who ragequits personaly. Then again, I'd rather use friends/guildies and not have anyone ragequit in the first place.

So, this brings us back to Random modes of play, as they have the biggest problem with players leaving/leeching. They're also the only modes of play whree you can't control your team, unless of course you cheat and sync enter. You can't really fix Fort Aspenwood, or Alliance Battles at this point, nor would ANET ever do such a thing.

Random Arenas, though, can and should be fixed. No Gladiator points mean the Gladiator title actualy has a bit more value. It means less people sync enter. It means less people quit to find better groups. Obviously, you can not stop people leaving due to degenerate teams or horrible players, I don't care if you made it so after I raged once I couldn't re-enter Random Arenas for six months, I'd still rage. It's somthing that simply goes along with the random gametype. You can't expect a random gametype filled with absolutly horrible players to be anywhere close to serious.

Random Arenas is not a serious PvP gametype, for a reason that's clearly stated in the name, it's random. It is a casual PvP gametype where people go to goof off, or do whatever, as long as they're passing some time and having fun. Honestly, less people would rage due to horrible players if those players stopped sucking at the game. Perhaps we should punish idiots for being unable to learn or adapt? Perhaps we should punish the same fools for entering with sub-level 20s over and over again? They are after all causing alot of the leaving. They're simply not much fun to play with. There are two sides to every issue, and because both sides on this one are have valid points, and becausethe gametype is flawed and non-serious in nature(the reason there's even a debate in the first place) who really cares?

/not signed

though I typically dont err 7 at all. There have been times when I've err 7'd 8 time in one night. In this system I would be punished for that.

/notsigned

/notsigned

For example you may have been in RA for about 20 wins and you might have a life and have to go out/do something else. This is just an example but random arenas are indeed random.

Not signed. I honestly can't be bothered monking for people who suck at the game.

Why don't they just make 2 RA venues.
One for the people who want gladiator points, faction or if they haven't unlocked TA and one for those who just like random PVPing to have fun.
Myself and I'm sure a lot of people just go to RA for a nice break and to have some fun. 1 person quitting is a bummer, but we still continue. More than 1 person quitting is just annoying.

I honestly Never rage quit, I go to RA for three reasons, Farm Balt faction, test builds I unlock with said faction, kill time.

Many a time I've been 4vs1 due to quiters and I don't get pissed, I used to, but who really cares, "OH No I just lost 30 secs of my life losing an RA battle because someone rage quit."

Fact is RA is not a serious place, and it should not be taken seriously.

OP If you really have such a big problem with these issues in RA (which will NEVER go away) then move to TA and stay there. RA is what it is and always will be.

On a side note, I had 9 in a row flawless about 2 weeks ago and err 007 at the start of the 10th match, accourding to you I would be punished for that, because as EVERYONE knows EVERYONE leaves on match 10 right?

How about, if someone quits, the next person to press the "Enter Battle" button replaces him? No punishment, but you get a replacement for the quitter.

Hm... some missions do not star until you leave certain area.

Make an 'appearing' circle and make another come if someone leaves, while the counter is still on or if no one in any side steps out of the circle.

Unfortunately, that cannot happen. E.g. dead guy or near dead guy rages. New guy comes in with full hp/energy.

The people that create these threads are the wammos who cast mending and live vicariously on themselves and wonder why people leave.

Haha...I've never played a Wammo. I play mesmer and necromancer and sometimes monk in PvP.

Ok Zui, that longer post was more satisfactory. I suppose the PvP stacked punishment system would really only be good in RA and AB.

I'll respond to your reasons:

1. I said somewhere the penalty would be lifted for RA games lasting 7-10 minutes.

2. Sub level 20 teammates are a separate problem. This would be a separate suggestion of mine, but I think they shouldn't be allowed to enter any high level PvP.

3. Good point. This is why I agree more with this reply.

4. What? If I read this right, it doesn't look like a good reason to leave to do something else.

5. If you're getting harrassed, you shouldn't punish the other two people on the team by leaving. Play the game out and then leave before the next match if you're going to leave.

As for your idea of taking away the Gladiator title from Random Arenas...if it would truly cut down on the rage quitters, I'm all for it.

Are you saying if your team is so good there's no sign of losing you should be able to leave? You CAN leave...before the next game with no penalty under this system.

Thallandor mentioned something about another game (Gunbound) with the gold system I mentioned. I am aware of this, and that's where the idea came from. Back a long long time ago when I played gunbound, lag was a terrible problem, but I've watched other people play it recently and now it rarely, if ever, happens. Regardless of that, Guild Wars, on a much more reliable system, rarely (to me) gets to a point where you have to leave because the game "freezes".

-----

Oh well, thanks everyone for giving this a look. I wasn't aware that this was brought up before. I used the search function, but I'm not quite sure what to search for with respect to this. ("Rage Quit" returned PvE results. "PvP Rage Quit" returned one relevent topic, but I was trying to implement a different system than that post.) Regardless of the random nature of the arenas, measures should be taken to maximize the enjoyment from this game type. If not punishment, then something else for the people that stay. (33% Morale Boost...heh.)

/Not sign to the OP's suggestion.

I would go with

1: When people leave, they will still leave a dead body on the floor, which when rez, will be a AI hench that that their stead.

2: Honor Points: If you have less people in you party due the leavers (and they are not rez), you will gain double or tripple faction point earn.

3: Cost of Faction Points: Enforce where each time you join a PvP game, it cost 50 or 100 faction points. But once that game is over, regardless of win or loose, you will get that point back. So if a leaver leave befoe the game end, it will cost him points.

4: Surrounder command: If all member of your team type /surrounder (must have all ), it will automatically finish the game. (to still enable people to leave to a unwanted game)

True, but many times you already realise the game is going nowhere early on. Before the gates open if you have 4 purely defensive charactars, you probably know it's going nowhere fast. Or maybe shortly into the game you realise you have 3 other charactars who are doing nothing, either because they are afk, or are running horrible builds/playing what they have poorly, you know that's going nowhere fast as well.

Quite honestly, I won't quit if I think my team is half descent. I'll even tolerate Mending Warrior/Monks with only Sever Artery and Gash as attack skills. But, if it gets to the point where I realise we have absolutly no chance of winning in the next 5, 10, 15, or even 20 minutes, I will most likely quit out, unless the reason it's going to take so long to win is because both teams have skilled players running quality builds, and running them well(hence it's the kind of game worth playing).

Absolutly agreed. I think they should honestly cap it at 200 attribute points and max armor, too.

However, the fact they haven't done anything about this for over a year and a half pretty much says they don't consider it an issue, and it will never be fixed.

^^

Well, I know the reason alot of good players do Random Arenas is because they're bored, and don't have enough people online(and free) in their Guild, Alliance, or on their Friends list to form a group. They could go form a PUG in TA, or HA, or get on #gwp to try and PUG GvG, but forming a PUG in TA/HA almost always takes alot of time, and results in failure(besides HA isn't the best place to PvP currently, although this is another issue entirely). PUG GvGing is hit and miss too, but most importantly there has to be a guild looking for people to guest/member, which isn't always very common.

So, they go to Random Arenas. They don't have to play seriously, and they don't have to form a group. But wait, they're playing in Random Arenas and suddenly 7 other people from their Guild get online! Gogogogo GvG! Or perhaps a friend whispers them looking for one more to play TA.

I understand under what you proposed, leaving after a match is over wouldn't have any penalties, but some matches can take awhile, and many times you friends/guildies may not be able to wait because they have to do somthing in X amount of time. It's also pretty cruel to the guy who gets to replace you and has one less win than your team, and thus doesn't get his Gladiator point because your group disbands, or you loose to an organised team in TA, although this is another issue with Random Arenas entirely.

Personaly, I'd finish out the match most of the time, and then leave. However I've had friends who have to go in 35-40 minutes ask me to TA, and left Random Arenas matches because of it.

I don't agree with this. Sometimes it may not just be on person harrassing you. Either way, there's no reason you should have to stay. I don't mind people qutting because of that, even if it's on our 10th game right before we would have gotten a Gladiator point. Random Areanas is after all a fairly non-serious gametype, and because of that I don't take it very seriously.

I honestly think it would. Currently the two ways to get "easy" gladiator points from Random Areans is to join games, then quit and keep re-entering until you find a team that can go the distance. The other method is sync-entering, which can result in a few quits because of the people who enter spiked not being put in the same team, and even if they are this ruins games because the synced team has just caused 10 other teams that are honestly random to loose almost by default. No Gladiator points means no quitting and re-entering for a better team to farm them, and no sync-entering in hopes of getting Gladiator points.

Although I dbout ANET will ever do this because many Random Arenas players who are unable to form organised teams and win 10 games would be outraged at being denied a title, and would argue that it does infact take skill to get Gladiator points from Random Arenas...

Same with me. My comp used to exit me out of guild wars 4 times a night. It really doesn't matter it the first time doesn't count lol...

BrotherGilburt

I have quit before and yes on a few occasions it was a RA match..why? because..

real life>game

No more of this nonsense this idea is very old and never well recieved.

There's already a command for that. It's /resign.

But, you need everyone to type it, after the match has started. What if your W/Mo with Mending wants to stay and tank? What if a player is AFK and/or griefing? What if someones plan to win is to bring 8 running skills and run around the map until the other team gives up? /resign only works in organised play because of this.

Guess what they put in today?

(From guildwars.com) "Set the minimum level to 20 for Random Arenas, Jade Quarry, and Fort Aspenwood."

As for the thread, I have nothing else to add to my argument. It's already been "notsigned" and I guess if the majority of the people don't want this fixed, then I don't think ANet will go against the majority's wishes even if their wishes are wrong (aka not mine), haha.

/notsigned for all the reasons people have said

/not signed.

This issue was discussed countless times before, so this time, I'm not even going to bother to list arguments, but just say 'do a forumsearch'.

sorry.

As has been previously pointed out (including by yourself), this issue has been discussed previously in other threads. There is no need for yet another thread about punishing quitters, even though yours is somehow special because it only focuses on RA, wheras others focus on PvP in general. Please discuss the matter in one of the already existing threads, preferrably the one with the most intelligent and rule-abiding activity going on...