More Grind.. Please!

I was considering putting this in suggestions but think its more of a discussion more then anything.

As Anets motto has always been less grind, it seems people perception of grind is getting distorted. Its gotten to the point that (it seems) no one wants to earn anything they think no grind means no effort, specific topics elude me at the moment but im sure the majority of people on the forums can think of a couple of "whine" threads about some sort of grind.

Personally I think there should be more PvE grind of some sort besides trying to earn money for FoW/15k or earning KoaBD title. I dont really have any interest in either of these as such (well not for the time being anyway).

Now this is why i thought it could have gone in the suggestion forum but would prefer to discuss it then get a load of /signed /unsigned posts to be honest.

How about if there was something that served next to no purpose, beyond bragging rights (kinda like what FoW armor is i guess), for example, if there was an area that you could capture a small animal of some sort, then do quests and kill enemies to feed items to it so it would grow and eventually it would grow and you could ride it within a specific area (I had WoW in mind when i was thinking of this, I've never actually played it but someone who does was telling me about mounts and that they take a long time to "complete").

Now this is just an idea to show what i mean about grind, but not specifically what I think it should be. Just something that has no bearing on PvP, cant be used outside of a specific area and serves next to no purpose but gives people something to aim for.

After completing the game I've found bar starting a new player there wasn't much for me to do (maybe because the elite mission isnt here yet). At the mo we have Hero Armors to get, 15K/FoW Armor, Titles and while these are all cool there just seems to be something thats lacking to give me an incentive to even bother with them.

Even though Anets idea is a sound one, I think taking away all grind gives people less to do and removes some replayability unless you get into PvP.

I find it odd that grind in a single player game would cause that game to suck, but grind combined with the ability to brag about the time you wasted on it is the core of almost all online games...

Technically I wouldnt mind if anet introduced more stuff like fow armour and titles. They ARE terribly boring grind, but you dont have to do them.

I would however like it more if anet would use its time for things that DO matter... like PvP and the endless ammount of suggestions, loopholes and problems that accumulated over the months.

Rather than Anet give us more things to do in which the aim is to repeat a given action ad nauseum until the goal is reached (grind), I'd rather see them take a step very few or zero MMOs have actually taken; give us other, varied, entertaining ways to do things like earn gold for whatever purpose. I always liked the idea of a 'job' NPC offering varied quests with somewhat random elements you can pick up continuously even post-game.

People who are averse to grind aren't typically wanting everything straight away for nothing - just that doing the same thing over and over again is too much like a day job and not enough like the challenging, entertaining fun a game is meant to be.

What is this grind everyone is talking about? I am at Sunspear General and I have done like maybee .5 hours of killing bugs outside of what I would have spent just moving from point A to point B to complete my quests. FARMING IS A GRIND! And might I say...barely. Not like in WOW, where you can spend a month grinding for some faction or hopeing to get that ultra-rare drop that you will need in order to be effective in PVP. Or going on 6-hour long raids again and again for the 1-in-20 chance of receiving the elite item. Getting Sunspear points is not grinding.

Nobody mentioned Sunspear points...
Did you even read the first post?

The OP was talking about PvE rewards like FoW armour and titles...

QFT

This is pretty much the main issue people have with grind. Honestly, the existence of grind is not a problem, it's just when the grind is required in order to progress through the game normally, or offers up even a slight advantage. There is plenty of grind in the game that doesn't fall into either of those categories, and I'm completely fine with more.

I believe I read somewhere about Anet possibly adding in "life skills" at some point. Essentially things like cooking, smithing, etc. I'd also love to see more 'minigames', which I thought we were going to see in Nightfall.

Not this game kiddo, go play WoW.

This game is reserved for those who value teamwork and skill over grind and the time spent in the game.

I'm all for grind, to be honest. As long as it does not inhibit me getting my elementalist pvp ready and keeping him that way by allowing me to breeze through the game in about a week and cap all the neccessary elites, you guys in pve-land can go nuts.

There is now no reason at all not to just start a pvp char rather than level+equip a pve char.

All my pve chars now don't pvp at all, pvp chars are far superior (customisation wise) and alot quicker to get ready for pvp.

I'm all for grind as long as i don't HAVE to do it.. anything to add longevity to the game past the storyline is all good with me.

You are talking from PvP point of view here, as far as i know finishing game with heros doesn't consider as teamwork.

= Grind.

I like to keep the same name, plus I like to look sexy. And if you have the cash, they're equal now, not superior.

No wai!

Exactly what they said.

GW has little grind compared to other online RPGs

I like it that way

don't increase the grind

Little grind = GW - grind = other MMOs

want more grind, change your mind

Seems to me it's more focused on how many people you can beat and say "QQ lol nublet!!1" to in a set amount of time.

And what about groups in HA, "R9++ group forming no noobs!" That's some skill versus grind there.

Granted, the teamwork aspect is true, I enjoy doing just about anything more if I'm doing it with other people.

If this game was really "reserved" for skill over grind, then PvE wouldn't exist.

"Grind" is generally the word used by the player base to describe something that must be "worked" for; thusly not fun to do. It's also thrown about aimlessly when character levels, points, ranking or "other artifical blocks" are placed before the players in achieving instant gratifcation.

If we look at what the OP is saying, he's asking for more long term goals, more FoW like rewards/gains. Many people would consider this "grind"; however many of us do not. This is core PvE goals - I even have used Avarre's awesome mesmer PvE builds to solo UW and other places. I would not ever call that "grind" as it was fun to do.

However, I would instantly call the GW PvP a massive grind as I do not find it fun. Quests and missions that immulate the GW PvP game play I find terrible and "artificially block" (as in I dread doing them) my progress, simply because they are not fun to play... thusly, I would consider those a "grind". With that said, the AI attempting to act like PvP bots, has created a full time "grind" in all aspects of the game for me.

Why do I mention that? Simply to show, that "Grind" is different for each person.

Long term goals are important to PvEers; it maintains interest for some players at the same time it is "boring and a grind" for others.

Honestly there are allready too much games full of grinding. WoW is a great example of those. In Guild Wars your own playing skills usually decide the outcome of the battle. In the grinding game like WoW your level and equipment decide who is the winner of the battle. And those levels and equipment are usually achivied by grinding same high level monsters.

Sure, you can grind in GW too if you want. Just find a boss and farm that green weapon over and over again if it drops unique items. There you have enough of that "grind".

No, just... no.

I really don't see what could be possibly fun in doing the same task over and over again in order to little little reward.

I'm not talking about Skill Hunting, PvE Story as such.

People who enjoy grinding tend to be people who enjoy Mining a Rock for 10 hours, fishing for hours or spending weeks to raise a level.

Grind does not equal fun.

I actually love to "grind".

Hour after hour of killing monsters and leveling up. I LOVED that in RO (when in my mood for it).

Grinding imo, has a satisfaction. I love power leveling my heros in Dragon's Throat. Grab an XP scroll and KILL EVERYTHING. ^^; fun fun.

Thats what grinding is.


If you want a long term goal, go PVP and get a gold trim on your cape.

I believe it should have grind, but a kinda of optional grind, much like the actual FOW which you have the option of grinding or not.

Guild Wars has no grind. Not a single bit.

In guild wars: You do not need to grind to play. but you can play to grind.

In WoW, grind is why you play.

There's a difference between grind and play. Missions aren't grind, just because you need to do 20 of them. Levels aren't grind just because you need to get to 20. Equipment isn't grind just because it may take a while to get the optimal one.

How much you play in Guild Wars has no impact on how you play. As you play longer, you merely get more options. More skills, more armor and weapon skins, better understanding of missions and AI. All of them can be obtained from day one.

If you feel you're being forced to grind, then your perception of gameplay is wrong. Guild Wars has no grind. And that includes Sunspear points and Lightbringer ranks (rank 2 is all you'll need).

If you feel you need LB rank 8, then that's your choice. But unlike WoW, which would require you to get rank 8 before even entering a certain mission, here you will never need to. If you want, you can finish the storyline at LB rank 1 (I think that's the minimum you'll be by then).

And no, there really is never any need to grind sunspear rank to advance in storyline. You will have more than enough points just by getting there.

With this in mind, GW can add more "grind". In GW terms this merely means there are more options to work for, or more content for different playstyles. After all, master cartographer is grind, so is defender and drunkard, ...

You will never ever need those to play and aspect of the game. HA? Get a few friends together, and make a group on your own. If those other R9 groups think you're not good enough for them, then ignore them. Add heroes while you're at it.

How exactly is your post helpful.

Grind or no grind, as long as it's fun.

I wouldn't mind more grinding possibilities, but only if you don't have to do them (visuals only, etc.)

Titles should give money rewards, the new way to farm. Give Protector titles a 25k reward.

Some titles on this game allready feel like grinding. Attleast if you are trying to get them all to max levels.

Treasure Hunter, Wisdom title, drunkard and new lightbringer feels like grinding for me. And for that treasure hunter title you need very much money for all those keys if you want max level for it some day... So getting money for that needs much "grind" or good luck with rare drops and such.

I have warrior who is allmost expert treasure hunter.. And i am bored and too poor to raise that title. And my necromancer has something like 1100 minutes in drunkard title and i am bored even with raising that title.

I dont have anything against grinding if it wont affect in the main thing in this game: battles.

I think if GW is going to have any longevity beyond this point it need's to diversify. It needs to have more enviromental effects (random rain, snow, sun, wind etc..) the world needs to change more as you progress, there needs to be home's of some sort, diverse abilities and so forth. Unfortunatly, if the game HOLDs onto it's current dynamic i see chapter 4 just being more of the same thing. Alot of what made nightfall a really good game is that they added (improved) the dynamic and character interactions, they need to continue with this theme IMO. They do however need to fix the hero system to the point of it not being a crutch for the newer players and a grind for the older ones. I really don't want to re-level my heros with all my toons.

Grind means that you have some kinda of reward and most titles don't give a reward, alas even those that give aren't such a BIG reward.

Normally only "reward" what you can get from maxing a title would be the satisfaction of achieving something in this game. Or if speaking of something stupid like elitism what i have encountered in this game, is that you laugh at people who dont have higher level from some title than you.

I remember when some grandmaster treasure hunter started to laugh at me when i didnt have high level in that title. If someone finds that kind of attitude "rewarding" i dont care. They are just stupid then.

Bit off topic now. Sorry about that.

I would like some more Grind - as was stated previously, as long as it doesn't have any effect on gameplay.

If you want to max out a title - go ahead, don't make it necessary for anything in game.

thanks for the replies..

i guess my use of the word "grind" may have been wrong as it seems to mean a lot of different things to different people. I wouldnt want something that is forced on players, just like FoW and Titles are not forced on players. But those things are quite boring, trying to earn money for FoW or 15K seems out of my play time especially as anet seem to be against farming (even though I understand its to try and stop bots etc). I would however like some longevity added to the game so my players dont go unused and still have something to do past completing the game, recruiting and helping my guildies.

The procession through the game would be the same but at the end of it there would be something else to work towards. Hopefully the elite mission that is coming at some point will give people something to do and judging from there being a thread about boredom that seems quite big, a lot of other people are maybe searching for the same thing (havent actually read the thread)

QFT. 123456

Strong Disagree, there is grind in GW (despite compliant) to start a chracter, get all your primary job skills, and get good weapons when compared to any fee based MMORPH.

Coming from FFXI (de-level's off death, artifact armor, high level over camped nortious monsters, quest to remove level caps, trying to be able to get to the point to PAY for airship service...) not going there again.

For me, trying to get wealth for 15k/Fow armor, perfect golds (by farming) is a way I can grind.

Now if by adding more grind adding more to the game that doesn't affect the ability to get max stat armor, good weapons from collector/weapon smith, or ability to get to elite monsters. Then I may be open to it. But mess with the ability to casually do the game in my free time where new grinding would be... then I would object.

Just because you don't see the grind, doesn't mean others don't. Value teamwork and skill? You can find a good build on the forum, and grind/farm all the greens/gold/treasure you want. How can you say that's not a grind?

What OP said is true. Grind is essencially part of an online game, either in one form of another.

I dont mean disrespect, but I dont get the part that you want more grind, but you dont want to work for FOW armor
Can you explain what is "GRIND"?? like...your view for it

If you simply want more content in the game, just say it that way=P Everyone want that, I am sure of it.
Ask for more grinding and better grind rewards does make you sound like asking for "The sword of thousand troop", and lv max 400(yap, 99 is nothing in online games )

GW does have some grind, the titles They are major money sink and time sink. But they dont have much to "show off", I think that is what most grinder complain about, they want something to show their 1337 other then a few words. I realy dont think they will ever be happy with GW. Once they get different look(which they already do with FOW) they will ask for better other stuffs, in the end, all they want is the "I WIN" skill

If you're getting bored with the content of the game as it is, why not ask for more interesting, more diverse content? If you think killing the same kind of enemy 25,000 will instantly become any more interesting of a task because you now get a little "I squish bugs!" text that shows up next to your name, I've got a bridge that you might be interested in.

wrong game. That goes against the idea of GW.

If I wanted grind I'd play something grindfest-worthy.

Grind more please
http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=myectojn8.jpg

Okay, first, everyone that made a big fuss and had coniptions over the use of the word grind, try taking a reading comprehension course.
The OP did not say that he wanted the game to be more like Wow.
The OP did not say that he wanted grind which would interfere with gameplay or mess up the balance between pve and pvp.

The OP did state that he wanted more 'grind' in the form of 'pointless' goals, such as minigames, which would have no affect on general gameplay. No holding you back on the storyline or anything like that. Did the Dragon festival involve grind?
For example, FoW armor gives the same stats as 1.5k, with different looks. It is not necessary to get it, but if you want the looks you may grind for it. The OP(from what I understand) wants more endgame content like that: something fun to do, but that you don't have to do.

And if I sounded insulting at the beginning, its only because people that jump to conclusions on hearing a buzzword like "grind" are my pet peeve.
And yes I would like more content/goals to diversify how I spend my time ingame.
But that's just my two cents.

I dont mind grind as long as it's not mandatory for any progression into the game or gives you any advantage other than superficial. The problem is that taking any big step towards rewarding grind (and yes GW already rewards grind in some ways) will shift the focus of the game away from grind-free to a grind fest.

And then there will be people who think they're entitled to their own little grind game. Just look how all the farmers got pissed off after the A.I. update. And look at the hoarders who were outraged at the new inscription system. Any change that upset their grinding fun, even though it was a change for the better for the game, was met with rants and complaints.

So let's just skip all that and not add any more grind incentives into the game.

I wouldn't actually mind a bit more grind, as long as it wasn't critical to the story and just for bragging rights.

no way. i think ppl chose to play GW because theres is very almost no grind. i love the fact that every1 is equal in armor and weapons. the little amount of grind is what attracted me to gw in the first palce. there are already a lot of grinding games and i'm glad the gw team chose to make something different

if u want grind ur in the wrong game. try wow or lineage.