Alot of what I see in game and read here makes me think the game (nightfall) was pushed out before the devs would have liked. Granted the quickest way to find bugs etc is to go live. No amount of testing is fool proof. But I wonder is releasing a new chapter every 6 months a good idea? Sure for us it sounds great, less boredom, more to look forward to. But after trying it for a week or so now, and reading about how NcSoft sales took a dip, maybe they pushed it out sooner than they should have to help boost revenues?
I guess what I'm saying is NF does not seem as polished as Prophecies or even factions. It seems half done. I just can't get into NF, and I was actually excited to get it loaded.
Anyone else feel this way? (Please leave the rants about specific problems out of this thread and just adress the question).
Question: Does Nightfall feel/seem like it was not ready for release to you?
I think Nightfall was pushed out too soon
Enchanted Warrior
Velath
Mostly ready, but definitely some bugs. I could have waited another month or two without the new game but i'm not really complaining. Unless they had updated the AI before then *shudders*. Still I'm good with it being out now, it'll be improved.
Edit: nm read your post more clearly, they probably wanted to get it out as announced for more than just sales reasons (reputation comes to mind) but I imagine it factored in as well.
Edit: nm read your post more clearly, they probably wanted to get it out as announced for more than just sales reasons (reputation comes to mind) but I imagine it factored in as well.
Ninna
Nightfall seems ready to me
- yes there was some bugs but nothing different than when the other 2 chapters were released
anyone remember all the bug patching during Prophecies release?
- yes there was some bugs but nothing different than when the other 2 chapters were released
anyone remember all the bug patching during Prophecies release?
erick5876
I'm actually very happy with this release. It feels much better than Factions did to me. Yeah, there are a few bugs, but then there were a lot of bugs with the release of Factions. Some made the game completely un-playable. Remember all the people who couldn't even connect? And the lag? This release went much smoother. There are a few bugs here and there, but nothing so major the game is unplayable.
Ninna
have a trip down memory lane
updates during May 2005
http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...ve-2005-05.php
updates during May 2005
http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...ve-2005-05.php
CHIKEN
hell, there was a bug or at least a problem with a build back in proph days that made you error 7 if you moved at all!
There were just groups of people at spawn locations in very dense circles talking
There were just groups of people at spawn locations in very dense circles talking
The Pointless
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Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior
Alot of what I see in game and read here makes me think the game (nightfall) was pushed out before the devs would have liked. Granted the quickest way to find bugs etc is to go live. No amount of testing is fool proof. But I wonder is releasing a new chapter every 6 months a good idea? Sure for us it sounds great, less boredom, more to look forward to. But after trying it for a week or so now, and reading about how NcSoft sales took a dip, maybe they pushed it out sooner than they should have to help boost revenues?
I guess what I'm saying is NF does not seem as polished as Prophecies or even factions. It seems half done. I just can't get into NF, and I was actually excited to get it loaded. Anyone else feel this way? (Please leave the rants about specific problems out of this thread and just adress the question). Question: Does Nightfall feel/seem like it was not ready for release to you? |
Gli
Nightfall feels much more finished to me than Factions did at release. Does anyone still remember how long it took before the Alliance feature became available? I do.
Cherno
Bugs are understandable, really not any different than the factions release in that regard. But this release seemed less complete than it should have. Not that it was half finished but maybe 98% finished. The inability to get to an elite area, the inability to reach max sunspear through normal means, a few missing elite skills, unavailable sunspear arena, missing hero and backtracking on the maxibility of skill hunter titles, and CE dances not completed. Now they seem to be trying to spin the elite and hero as added features to be added later, it seems like backtracking to me.
I am very happy with nightfall but think their schedule is too agressive and they have to leave things out that they originally wanted. I think ever 9 months would be better than 6.
I am very happy with nightfall but think their schedule is too agressive and they have to leave things out that they originally wanted. I think ever 9 months would be better than 6.
Shadowfox1125
Well, Anet's trying to go by their word.. hey, if they can't make their deadline, they're gonna lose some fans..
FalconDance
NF is much more polished than Factions even thought about being at release, in my opinion! Sure there are 'bugs', but that will happen whether you spend six months or six years in development. I would say that perhaps we all tend to pressure the dev team to give us more-bigger-better-MORE on a regular basis. We're rather unthoughtful that way 
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I was a beta tester for Arch Lords -- OMG what a bug-laden nightmare! And yet it was released a couple weeks after the beta test was over. I can only hope the bugs were squished (it was SO bad, I refuse to buy the game and find out!).
.I was a beta tester for Arch Lords -- OMG what a bug-laden nightmare! And yet it was released a couple weeks after the beta test was over. I can only hope the bugs were squished (it was SO bad, I refuse to buy the game and find out!).
fatmouse
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Originally Posted by The Pointless
Considering that each campaign, on launch, has a full year of development time behind them and the fact that it's been ANet's plan the whole time to release each game every 6 months, I fail to see the problem. Nightfall came out bang on, when I look at my place of work's calendar (4 week month > 4 week month > 5 week month, each campaign coming out on the 2nd Friday of each 3rd 4-week month)
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Shaggeh
There's a saying in the game-developing world that goes something like:
"A game is never complete, it just ships."
This is always true. Nomatter how much time a company has to design, create, and fine-tune a product there's always something more they would want. There are always bugs that slip through, there are always incomplete areas, and there are always fans saying it was sent out far too soon.
Nightfall had some silly little bugs. But, when you look at just how much work it is to create a game as detailed as Nightfall, they are all understandable. The vast majority of these bugs were corrected within the first week of launch, before a large percentage of the player-base even ran across them.
You can argue all you wish that Nightfall wasn't finished, or that it wasn't fine-tuned enough, but many players feel it is vastly superior to Factions. Some of us even prefer it to Prophecies. The setting, story-line, events, quests, missions, everything was more detailed, and drew a large amount of the player-base into the game far more than the previous two chapters ever did.
Maybe you're just growing tired of the GW formula. Maybe you're just harder to impress these days.
"A game is never complete, it just ships."
This is always true. Nomatter how much time a company has to design, create, and fine-tune a product there's always something more they would want. There are always bugs that slip through, there are always incomplete areas, and there are always fans saying it was sent out far too soon.
Nightfall had some silly little bugs. But, when you look at just how much work it is to create a game as detailed as Nightfall, they are all understandable. The vast majority of these bugs were corrected within the first week of launch, before a large percentage of the player-base even ran across them.
You can argue all you wish that Nightfall wasn't finished, or that it wasn't fine-tuned enough, but many players feel it is vastly superior to Factions. Some of us even prefer it to Prophecies. The setting, story-line, events, quests, missions, everything was more detailed, and drew a large amount of the player-base into the game far more than the previous two chapters ever did.
Maybe you're just growing tired of the GW formula. Maybe you're just harder to impress these days.
Enchanted Warrior
"Maybe you're just harder to impress these days."
Could be, seems with games it's best to adopt the "don't expect anything and you won't be dissapointed" attitude these days. I just feel let down. not sure why, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the things I do like (heroes mainly) will be nerfed to .... since many players are whining at light speed to have them removed.
Ugh.. maybe it's just holiday blues, it's kinda like some feel the day after Christmas and the let down sets in. All the aniticpations that were not met as it were...
Could be, seems with games it's best to adopt the "don't expect anything and you won't be dissapointed" attitude these days. I just feel let down. not sure why, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the things I do like (heroes mainly) will be nerfed to .... since many players are whining at light speed to have them removed.
Ugh.. maybe it's just holiday blues, it's kinda like some feel the day after Christmas and the let down sets in. All the aniticpations that were not met as it were...
Achilles Antony
No matter what Anet would have chosen to do, they would have upset a few people anyway. This is just the way it is. Either release it on time and have people complain about bugs, or push it back and have people complain about the changed release date. The only way to please everyone is to release a perfect game, but that's near impossible.
lacasner
By Anet's standards, it was as ready as it will ever be.
LoKi Foxfire
Factions was much worse than Nightfall ever was even with the huge storyline-breaking bug they had during launch. How could your QA miss such an obvious bug such as a missing primary quest after Venta Cemetary? It was pretty funny to me at least.
The Pointless
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Originally Posted by LoKi Foxfire
How could your QA miss such an obvious bug such as a missing primary quest after Venta Cemetary? It was pretty funny to me at least.
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Maria The Princess
Factions Polished? no way, factions was way more rushed then NF and underdone in PVE AND PVP (the wierd factions system)
to be honest i always come back to prophecies. ya, NF is great, i like how its done but i really hate the obligation to do quests. i much rather have the option to skip parts that i dont like (its a game, its for run. why do i HAVE to do boring things if i can skip them and procee to fun things)
to be honest i always come back to prophecies. ya, NF is great, i like how its done but i really hate the obligation to do quests. i much rather have the option to skip parts that i dont like (its a game, its for run. why do i HAVE to do boring things if i can skip them and procee to fun things)
Skawtt
Whats to complain about? What bugs? Are they not fixed ASAP? No monthly fees...but I want it NOW!. No mattter how much they test there is going to be some amount of bugs when its pushed to live....and when there is I just say meh and keep going.
Saphatorael
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Originally Posted by Cherno
I am very happy with nightfall but think their schedule is too agressive and they have to leave things out that they originally wanted. I think ever 9 months would be better than 6.
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The Elite mission isn't even finished yet, by the way.
And if they say that they want to stick to their promise of releasing a new chapter every 6 months... they're just too stubborn. They already broke it with Factions. 9 months would be ideal, indeed.
Just enough to have perfected play in a campaign, not enough to get bored of it (loads of my friends quit GW in the 10th, 11th and 12th month, unfortunately).
ANet shouldn't rush things.
Not that I'm saying NF was rushed: it's a great game, PvE sure does stand out, compared to Factions, but they admitted it's not completely finished by leaving out a hero and an elite mission.
And giving a major update soon? In December? Hmm. that's almost 9 months after Factions' release. NF should be more-or-less complete in that update. 9 months.
Feurin Longcastle
I'm not sure what the issue here is, exactly. Nightfall was mostly complete as far as I can tell. There was the one major Venta bug, and some small quest bugs. Rajah and the Elite Mission also didn't make it in time. All this, in about 6 months of development, give or take. The major farming/AI bugs were introduced by Anet to coincide with release. They could have easily added those changes months before.
Compare this to say, Neverwinter Nights 2. Over 2 years of development, and the game is so buggy on launch that it's hardly playable. An 80 Mb patch is released within the first week. Tons of graphical problems, hench AI is atrocious, many features of the game (i.e. crafting) sport numerous bugs, even after the patch. There is a game that was pushed for release.
Nightfall was fairly complete, in my opinion.
Compare this to say, Neverwinter Nights 2. Over 2 years of development, and the game is so buggy on launch that it's hardly playable. An 80 Mb patch is released within the first week. Tons of graphical problems, hench AI is atrocious, many features of the game (i.e. crafting) sport numerous bugs, even after the patch. There is a game that was pushed for release.
Nightfall was fairly complete, in my opinion.
Loviatar
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Originally Posted by Saphatorael
I agree.
The Elite mission isn't even finished yet, by the way. And if they say that they want to stick to their promise of releasing a new chapter every 6 months... they're just too stubborn. They already broke it with Factions. . |
each chapter gets one full year so after finishing GW and splitting into two teams for the future six month staggered release schedule .........
please tell me how to make 12 months into 6 months for the first Factions release.
and they did say every 6 months AFTER chapter two.
they made that quite clear
MegaMouse
Granted Nightfall came out with a few problems, could have been more polished, and might have needed a bit more time in the developers hands. As I see it A-Nets and NC-Soft's reason to push it out the door to meet a launch date is reasonable seeing as they are always trying their best to fix any issues that happen to crop up. I had major isssues when the preview event went live, they were so bad that I didn't even play it after the first 20 minutes or so. I just went back to Cantha and Tyria. Not everything we as players want will make it into the main release of a game, but as an example, the dev teams did open up Sorrows Furnace for free instead of trying to sell us something they concidered too small to sell seperatly (very large area and quite hard to complete). I would rather they open a new area to us every six months, than have them do a rush job on a new chapter. I can wait for the new chapters seeing as I have 2 accounts with all 3 chapters on each (originaly bought the second to keep from deleting any of my favorite characters I created).
Mega Mouse
Mega Mouse
Yawgmoth
I think its much much better with Nightfall than it was with Prophecies and Factions before. These needed far more immediate patches to fix bugs or add things that didnt make it into the release. There were plenty of uptades adding new quests and items to them.
Nightfall is by itself a complete game, lacking only some extra high-end content and it could have had some features we wait for. It had very few bugs at release comparing to previous campagins. And we know we will get more free stuff, more content, updates, improvements. Only hope we'll get the most important ones this time.
Nightfall is by itself a complete game, lacking only some extra high-end content and it could have had some features we wait for. It had very few bugs at release comparing to previous campagins. And we know we will get more free stuff, more content, updates, improvements. Only hope we'll get the most important ones this time.
LightningHell
Apart from some skills needing fixing IMO, Nightfall is a very complete game. I want Razah though.
bart
with 6 months turnover for every chapter i wonder if the devs get to go on holiday
Artisan
It depends.
First off, in my opinion, there were NO bugs that warranted a delay of the release date. Nothing major enough to make me think they should have released it later (and no, not being able to max sunspear isn't a 'bug', nor is the lack of an elite mission at this point in time, those are 'features')
I think they should have delayed the release date IF and ONLY IF such features as the elite mission are things they would have done if they had the time to do it - if it was on the schedule, but they didn't have the time to finish it with the release date they had, and could do it within about a month's time, then yeah, I wouldn't have minded a delay.
But for the little bugs? No, a missing elite skill or two is not reason to delay the release date - not to mention, there's no guarantee that if they had, they would have found those bugs anyway.
First off, in my opinion, there were NO bugs that warranted a delay of the release date. Nothing major enough to make me think they should have released it later (and no, not being able to max sunspear isn't a 'bug', nor is the lack of an elite mission at this point in time, those are 'features')
I think they should have delayed the release date IF and ONLY IF such features as the elite mission are things they would have done if they had the time to do it - if it was on the schedule, but they didn't have the time to finish it with the release date they had, and could do it within about a month's time, then yeah, I wouldn't have minded a delay.
But for the little bugs? No, a missing elite skill or two is not reason to delay the release date - not to mention, there's no guarantee that if they had, they would have found those bugs anyway.
Ilya Khan
NF, in my opinion, could have used a bit more playtesting but it is far more polished than Factions.
Xenrath
Prophecies had several years of development (and it shows). Six months does seem a touch short, but then it's likely no GW campaign will ever match up to Prophecies due to the amount of time spent on the original and the comparative lack of time on the campaigns following them.
The Pointless
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Originally Posted by Xenrath
Prophecies had several years of development (and it shows). Six months does seem a touch short, but then it's likely no GW campaign will ever match up to Prophecies due to the amount of time spent on the original and the comparative lack of time on the campaigns following them.
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Ninna
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Originally Posted by Xenrath
Prophecies had several years of development (and it shows).
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http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...ve-2005-05.php
lyra_song
Dont forget how long Prophecies took to implement some 15k armors .-.
Moa Bird Cultist
Just to clear something up, because 99.9% of the people that have posted here have got this wrong: Guild wars campaigns do not have a 6 month development cycle, each one spends a full year in development. Now as for Nightfall being less polished than Factions? I think some people have forgotten a little skill called Assassin's Promise? Which was missing from the game for a couple of months, if I recall correctly? What about the undeniably short PvE experience, complete with buggy missions, NPCs who body block your hench all over the place, buggy pathing, lag, disconnects, that depressing city... Not to mention an Elite mission system which was even worse than the Favour system.
By comparison, Nightfall had no Cinematic, the elite mission and 1 hero have not been implemented as of yet, (this has been admitted, unlike the missing Assassin's Promise cap, which was denied right up till the update which implemented it,) a bug which stopped players progressing, which was fixed within the day of release and a few missing caps, which have been implemented fairly quickly.
So my take is that Nightfall is vastly more polished than Factions was. It's far less buggy in it's own right, it's better paced and the story is actually credible, unlike Factions' "You're the sidekick, Mhenlo's the superhero" disaster.
By comparison, Nightfall had no Cinematic, the elite mission and 1 hero have not been implemented as of yet, (this has been admitted, unlike the missing Assassin's Promise cap, which was denied right up till the update which implemented it,) a bug which stopped players progressing, which was fixed within the day of release and a few missing caps, which have been implemented fairly quickly.
So my take is that Nightfall is vastly more polished than Factions was. It's far less buggy in it's own right, it's better paced and the story is actually credible, unlike Factions' "You're the sidekick, Mhenlo's the superhero" disaster.
Mai
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Dont forget how long Prophecies took to implement some 15k armors .-.
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seut
when Prophecies was released:
-all unlocks had to be gained by playing PVE
-no rune & material traders
-elites had to be capped from alive bosses while they cast it (getting Battle Rage involved littering the bosses surrounding with random drops, otherwise he wouldn't use it.. capping "target other ally" monk elites needed some strategy)
-Fire Island mission bonuses didn't work
-you had to gain refund points, if you wanted to change attributes
-several 15k armor weren't completed (Tormentors was completed in December)
Nightfall is much more complete, though i hope that the Hero equipment system will get changed (getting stuff for all is insane and swapping the equipment between different character's heroes is tedious... giving the heroes access to the pvp equipment builder would be my solution).
p.s. in the first few weeks there were locked strongboxes in the southern Shiverpeaks, i remember a guildmate getting a key as a drop
-all unlocks had to be gained by playing PVE
-no rune & material traders
-elites had to be capped from alive bosses while they cast it (getting Battle Rage involved littering the bosses surrounding with random drops, otherwise he wouldn't use it.. capping "target other ally" monk elites needed some strategy)
-Fire Island mission bonuses didn't work
-you had to gain refund points, if you wanted to change attributes
-several 15k armor weren't completed (Tormentors was completed in December)
Nightfall is much more complete, though i hope that the Hero equipment system will get changed (getting stuff for all is insane and swapping the equipment between different character's heroes is tedious... giving the heroes access to the pvp equipment builder would be my solution).
p.s. in the first few weeks there were locked strongboxes in the southern Shiverpeaks, i remember a guildmate getting a key as a drop
Iceman2
i remeber attribute points, going outside and killing monsters just because you put an extra point where you didnt want it
vaxmor
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Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior
Alot of what I see in game and read here makes me think the game (nightfall) was pushed out before the devs would have liked
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Kuldebar Valiturus
This game doesn't come close to being bug ridden. Really, it's pretty damn polished. Whatever beta testing system ANet employs it seems to blow Blizzard's completely out of the water.
And, guess what, Blizzard has a polished game...but their server downtimes are horrendous, patch days are often nightmares and drag on for about a week on average before things get back to normal. (lag issues, disconnects, zone-in delays, authentication server delays...etc.)
I am sure there is always pressure to "rush" a game out the door. But, that's the job of the game company to ensure a balance is struck between the marketing demands and production quality. If they mess up...there's hell to pay and a very long recovery period.
Horizons, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online....releases can be really rough.
And, guess what, Blizzard has a polished game...but their server downtimes are horrendous, patch days are often nightmares and drag on for about a week on average before things get back to normal. (lag issues, disconnects, zone-in delays, authentication server delays...etc.)
I am sure there is always pressure to "rush" a game out the door. But, that's the job of the game company to ensure a balance is struck between the marketing demands and production quality. If they mess up...there's hell to pay and a very long recovery period.
Horizons, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online....releases can be really rough.
Enchanted Warrior
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Originally Posted by vaxmor
Alot of what I see in the forums and read here makes me think that if the release date (of nightfall) had slipped to appease the W/R OP there would have been many posts whining and crying in here.
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Oh man I needed that laugh thankie