Its no good casting SS on a group of warriors
IDK why would you ever cast SS on Warriors... last thing I need is for them to scatter and kill the monk(s).
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I decent 55monk doesnt need BR!
SS/SV Nuker in the old 2man UW did NOT need that many skills... thus, why not bring BR to speed the energy process up? Shit happens with some random 55s you meet and they would run out of energy because they are tanking 1 enemy.
SS + A. Echo + Reckless Haste (it works with competent 55s and speeds up the process a whole lot) + SV + Defile Enchantment.... I even use Rez Signet in case something wrong happens.
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BR is used 99% of the time to cover up poor gameplay style
So is Rez.
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because SS<Decent Warrior
Truth.
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How could that compete with a group of 6 warriors, and SS on 3 of them. youve obviously never played an SS, or you have, just very very wrongly.
You are the one playing wrongly, scattering warriors all over the place with SS.
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For some random mission, if a team is good you'll wind up playing MM
Playing MM with a bad PUG makes it a good PUG, unless your monk decides that you can take care of yourself when getting spiked and you already ate all your minions so you would stay alive - and then your team dies, and blames it on you for "can't keep minions alive noob mm".
At those times you just let the minions run wild and kill the group.
03 Dec 2006 at 14:27 - 42
Warriors DO NOT scatter, if the casters remain out of range! Dont tell me otherwise because ive been playing SS in FoW a lot recently. The only time they scatter, or dont get aggroed on the tank is when the ele trys to get in first, or gets too close to the tank and they lose aggro. It is meteor shower that makes enemies scatter as it is an area effect spell, ie it stays in that area! SS is ana area effect, but it is a hex which follows you arround!!
Ive 2 manned FoW with a 55monk and a SS, and when we do it right, the enemies dont scatter.
04 Dec 2006 at 09:58 - 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraofMana
It is always stupid for anyone not to bring energy management unless you are a Warrior (don't even say Balthazar's Spirit).
But I don't want to waste 10 mins to get the party together, make people ping skill bar, pay 1k, get in, and get owned after the first mob because the Monk thought spamming Orison of Healing even if anyone took 1 damage is a sure way to save everyone.
Meteor Shower + Echo + Arcane Echo = 3 ?
But Fire Ele is so boring... but you can't beat Meteor Shower =/
Searing Flames does so easily, and so does Sandstorm. I have no idea why you quoted me on energy management, but ok.
You raise an interesting point about BR having the same use as a Res Sig, but I have to point out to you - the difference is probably taking two of these types of skills. (To make up for your team's inadequacies) I would take either/or, if my group really wanted BR that bad, and I didn't want to run it.
By the way, Energy Storage with no skills in it has pretty much no function, it's just a buffer to make you think you can be more lenient on your energy usage. Just because you start off with 70+ energy doesn't mean that you can't blow through it, which an elementalist EASILY can.
Oh, and it really makes my panda sad that you think Meteor Shower is good.
04 Dec 2006 at 12:57 - 44
a) if i go with my ss necro i allways go with br. why, because i do not know if my party is good enough. When i go with guild/alliance i dont take br because i trust my team and know they got energy management. btw if you do fow a necro shoud allways bring
Revealed Hex - Spell
Remove a Hex from target ally and gain 3-13 Energy. For 20 seconds, Revealed Hex is replaced with the Hex removed from target ally.
you know how many foes cast SS and mark of pain so you get it.
b) ele should have energy management. you are a noob if you got to fow without management. it makes the run slower because in fact a SS necro is a full damage dealer and not a support player. btw my oppionion of tripple nukers is that it is so bad. 3 times nukes is 3 times 25 energy and 3 times exhaustion. ok there are ways to do something about it, but it costs skill slots and you only got 8
Monks who need br have to practice a bit more. there are so many cheap skills that can heal a lot.
Bonders also not need br. 2 mesmer skills and you got all the energy management that you need.
Revealed Hex - Spell
Remove a Hex from target ally and gain 3-13 Energy. For 20 seconds, Revealed Hex is replaced with the Hex removed from target ally.
free hex removal
and
Ether Signet - Signet
If you have less than 5-9 Energy, gain 10-18 Energy.
to me its just logic but i wish others would also have some logic.
04 Dec 2006 at 16:26 - 45
Meteor Shower sucks anyways.
Any ele asking for BR needs to be kicked far far away from any PUG.
You got Glyph of Lesser Energy, Ether Prodigy, Dual Attunements (elemental attune + fire/water/air/earth attunement), not to mention you can branch to /Me for energy tap, and interrupt skills that give you energy.....
Only monks should be asking for BR.
04 Dec 2006 at 16:51 - 46
Thank you squan. That has been my point. An SS necro is a full damage dealer!
NOT a support player. I will bring BR if the team asks me to, doesnt mean ill spend a lot of time casting it on them though. Ill do it if i really dont have anything else to do. And believe me, that isnt very often.
04 Dec 2006 at 16:59 - 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
Warriors should be the main damage dealers. And I can't think of that many skills that are crucial for an ss necro that they can't sacrifice something for their monks.
If any ele asks for a BR he should be kicked.
lmol have u ever heard of tactics? u know free up the eles elites so they can take more damaging skills unstead of having to use an Elite energy management.
Agreed necros can norm find a slot to find Br in. As for the 1st line haha i dont think ive laughed that hard for months, thanks 
04 Dec 2006 at 20:47 - 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
Warriors should be the main damage dealers. And I can't think of that many skills that are crucial for an ss necro that they can't sacrifice something for their monks.
If any ele asks for a BR he should be kicked.
lmol have u ever heard of tactics? u know free up the eles elites so they can take more damaging skills unstead of having to use an Elite energy management.
Agreed necros can norm find a slot to find Br in. As for the 1st line haha i dont think ive laughed that hard for months, thanks
Unfortunately prior to NF, most ele elites pretty much sucked for damage dealing. The good ones were mainly for...guess what?...energy management which is what an ele usually should use his elite slot for. With Nightfall, there are some decent damage dealing elite AoE spells like Searing Flames and Sandstorm. But a SF nuker should easily be able to manage his own energy with Glowing Gaze (which also does damage) and fire attunement. Likewise an earth elementalist using Sandstorm could (although I haven't personally tried this as my ele hasn't capped sandstorm yet) use ebon hawk, glowstone, and earth attunement for energy management. No reason to need BR from the necro.
Not to mention that skill for skill, considering energy requirements, cast time, recharge time, and armor ignoring damage, necros can easily outdamage elementalists as nukers in practically any reasonably normal situation anyway. Maybe the necros should be asking the eles to bring BR to support them for maximum team efficiency. 
One last thing on SS...I haven't been in FoW since the AI updates, so I can't speak for there, but as far as the endgame of NF goes SS still works like a champ. I went SS with my necro through the whole realm of torment with no problems. SS still does massive damage if used properly. This was with a guildie playing a dervish and both of us using heroes (and sometimes a hench or two.) One key thing is to always have the best frontline you can. I've never gone anywhere in NF without a MM. Either playing one myself (in early game) or using a MM hero in later stages. The minions do a wonderful job of keeping enemies out of the backline. And as long as that happens, you can still do a huge amount of damage with SS. Plus, you need the great frontline to protect your healers anyway.
04 Dec 2006 at 22:26 - 49
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Originally Posted by AuraofMana
So is Rez.
People learn from dying. People DON'T learn if someone else is a crutch to lean on....because nothing bad happened. Someone else picked up your slack.
PUGs = Bad
PUGs + BR requests = Disaster Looming
05 Dec 2006 at 01:09 - 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
People learn from dying. People DON'T learn if someone else is a crutch to lean on....because nothing bad happened. Someone else picked up your slack.
PUGs = Bad
PUGs + BR requests = Disaster Looming
lol, how exacly does that work out? A monk in a Pug asks for br and it means increased chances of failure? Really doesn't make sense. Br is there to avoid a possible wipe. The monk asks for br in case the worst happens. A monk does not control the other party members, obviously. How do you know he didn't ask for br in fear of what the other party members might do? Everyone should know what I'm talking about - the random afk's with no warning, rushers, casters who attempt to tank, etc....all the idiots that would force the monk to drain his energy nearly down to nothin cause they just won't get a clue. Now what if the monk didn't ask for br but knew that he'd possibly might need it, then halfway into a mission at a bad time, he asks for br outta nowhere cause all the sudden the whole party decided to get wreckless, but you didn't have it equipped.......but, if the monk asked for br before starting the mission, you assume that something more horrible is likely to happen cause he's supposedly inexperienced, right?
Btw, since when do people learn from dying? There's plenty of people who'll die many times and still just don't know what's going on.
05 Dec 2006 at 01:21 - 51
people dont learn from dieing. when i play as my monk, i never ask for br. and i really hate it when an ele starts to tank while the war goes off argoing everybody else for the ele to tank (lol). but i feel like i have to heal them, or ele everyone will think im a bad monk.
05 Dec 2006 at 03:33 - 52
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An SS necro is a full damage dealer!
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For the last time - NO. If you are running any full damage dealers, unless in some very special case in PvP, you are just plain noob.
And I doubt you know what a full damage dealer means:
All damage, no rez, no heal, nothing.
Meteor Shower does suck in terms of damage, the knockdown is the fun part.
I just like to see people getting pummeled by rocks from the sky =D
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ele should have energy management. you are a noob if you got to fow without management. it makes the run slower because in fact a SS necro is a full damage dealer and not a support player
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IDK why the hell you need so many FULL TIME damage dealers. Seriously, people have 3 maned FOW and you got a freaking 5man SF team + Nuker running here.
And if I am running an Ele, I would rather take an elite damaging skill instead of some energy management. Yes, Ele drains the energy pool fast, but he still ends up having more energy. That's why people bring BR, IDK why it would be a waste in the first place as you run Awaken the Blood anyway.
It's faster to BR the ele and move out instead of SSing everything you see. It doesn't take that much to cast 2~3 SS on a group of monsters and throw in a curse or two and interrupt. It's not like you are the monk with a full time heal job due to spikes - you are making it sound as if SS is always busy.
Oh noez... I gotta use Power Spike like once.... gonna take all game anticipating for it, so don't bother me cause I am busy hovering my finger over Power Spike!!11
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Only monks should be asking for BR.
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They are saying over here that NO ONE SHOULD EVER ASK BR. IDK what is wrong with them. I don't care if you have energy management, you are going to run out some time, and hell, playing a monk in elite places are hard. When a spike is going on, you won't last long.
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Not to mention that skill for skill, considering energy requirements, cast time, recharge time, and armor ignoring damage, necros can easily outdamage elementalists as nukers in practically any reasonably normal situation anyway. Maybe the necros should be asking the eles to bring BR to support them for maximum team efficiency
IDK why you need a nuker for FOW in the first place.
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Ether Signet - Signet
If you have less than 5-9 Energy, gain 10-18 Energy.
Ether Signet is about the worst skill there is - recharge is incrediably long. So hard to just ask a Necro to bring BR because you know, a monk's skill isn't as important as a SS's. Who cares if everyone dies, that's not my problem. The point here is to kill, kill, and kill, and if that means we have to die along, that's ok, because you know, SS is always busy.
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One last thing on SS...I haven't been in FoW since the AI updates, so I can't speak for there, but as far as the endgame of NF goes SS still works like a champ. I went SS with my necro through the whole realm of torment with no problems. SS still does massive damage if used properly. This was with a guildie playing a dervish and both of us using heroes (and sometimes a hench or two.) One key thing is to always have the best frontline you can. I've never gone anywhere in NF without a MM. Either playing one myself (in early game) or using a MM hero in later stages. The minions do a wonderful job of keeping enemies out of the backline. And as long as that happens, you can still do a huge amount of damage with SS. Plus, you need the great frontline to protect your healers anyway.
SS will scatter aggro when more than 3 people are affected by it, but in mishs monsters are usually scattered already.
For FOW, it is the same thing except less serious. But get 3~6 warriors charging at your tanks, a few SS's, and you got scattered warriors going for your monks and you.
05 Dec 2006 at 04:06 - 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Sebolta
If you only use arcane echo and Spiteful Spirit, and moreover you think I do the same, not only are you a noob, youve not read the whole of this thread. Of course you need more than echo/SS thats been discussed in this thread.
Mark of Pain only works if the tank attacks the enemy with MoP on it. And lest we forget, he can only attack one enemy at a time (discounting triple shop, cyclone axe, hundred blades etc). MoP works for physical damage only. Thats bows and melee. How could that compete with a group of 6 warriors, and SS on 3 of them. youve obviously never played an SS, or you have, just very very wrongly.
*rolls eyes in a big wide cirle*
Which part about the Minions did you miss? Surprise! Minions do physical damage...
As for SS requiring more than 2 slots... what's the next thing that you gonna tell me? That an MM requires more than 2 slots? Namely Fiends and BoTM? What do I know... I've only played a Necro in PvE and PvP extensively since GW came out and through 3 chapters now. I'm clearly clueless.
05 Dec 2006 at 09:22 - 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraofMana
For the last time - NO. If you are running any full damage dealers, unless in some very special case in PvP, you are just plain noob.
And I doubt you know what a full damage dealer means:
All damage, no rez, no heal, nothing.
Ether Signet is about the worst skill there is - recharge is incrediably long. So hard to just ask a Necro to bring BR because you know, a monk's skill isn't as important as a SS's. Who cares if everyone dies, that's not my problem. The point here is to kill, kill, and kill, and if that means we have to die along, that's ok, because you know, SS is always busy.
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I *always* run my warrior as full damage. I do carry a res, as any player should, period.
Ether Signet is great on a monk, combined with Mantra of Inscriptions and Signet of Devotion/Rejuvination.
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Originally Posted by squan
Monks who need br have to practice a bit more. there are so many cheap skills that can heal a lot.
Bonders also not need br. 2 mesmer skills and you got all the energy management that you need.
The two skills you need from mesmer are Mantra of Inscriptions and .. well that's it. Blessed Signet covers you fine.
A lot of times when I monk, I end up being the only one. There's been dozens of times that a BR from a ranger or something has saved our team from a nice spread of DP. If you're in a bad group, you will get into situations where you need more than your energy management and weapon swapping can provide. In these cases BR is great. On an SS necro? Well. Whatever. Your call. It is a crutch for most players, as Carinae Dragonblood so aptly put it.
05 Dec 2006 at 12:15 - 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by aubee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
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Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
Warriors should be the main damage dealers. And I can't think of that many skills that are crucial for an ss necro that they can't sacrifice something for their monks.
If any ele asks for a BR he should be kicked.
lmol have u ever heard of tactics? u know free up the eles elites so they can take more damaging skills unstead of having to use an Elite energy management.
Agreed necros can norm find a slot to find Br in. As for the 1st line haha i dont think ive laughed that hard for months, thanks Unfortunately prior to NF, most ele elites pretty much sucked for damage dealing. The good ones were mainly for...guess what?...energy management which is what an ele usually should use his elite slot for. With Nightfall, there are some decent damage dealing elite AoE spells like Searing Flames and Sandstorm.
Well...no and sort-of-no. I wouldn't consider it 'tactics' for the ele to expect Blood Ritual. As I have said before I can manage my energy perfectly without an energy storage elite...even before Nightfall was released. Elemental Attunement I find pretty useful with some air builds I run but I've not used an e-storage elite in months. Fire/Water/Air/Earth Attunement + Glyph of Lesser Energy and your'e good to go. I have so much fun taking an elite other than an E-Storage one. I keep meaning to test out Ether Prism though so see how well it works but first impressions are it doesn't look good.
Invoke Lightning ftw!
05 Dec 2006 at 13:03 - 56
Theres another point i was going to make but i thought id get laughed at. Someones already said it though. An SS can deal much more damage than an ele!!! so why should the best damage dealer have to make up for a less efficient one.
To answer the point once again about bloody Mark of Pain...YES i said before im sure it does do a hell of a lot of damage when theres other means of physical damage, but in a 5 man FoW theres only a warrior. That was my point. Hard to Coordinate.
05 Dec 2006 at 17:30 - 57
Several things: 1) didn't know this somehow became a discussion about 5 man FoW... 2) if an Ele needs BR, you need another Ele... 3) if a Monk asks for BR, you do have the room on your skill bar, and you can afford to bring it; it's a good emergency thing and emergencies do happen.
05 Dec 2006 at 18:52 - 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Sebolta
Theres another point i was going to make but i thought id get laughed at. Someones already said it though. An SS can deal much more damage than an ele!!! so why should the best damage dealer have to make up for a less efficient one.
To answer the point once again about bloody Mark of Pain...YES i said before im sure it does do a hell of a lot of damage when theres other means of physical damage, but in a 5 man FoW theres only a warrior. That was my point. Hard to Coordinate.
Probably a bit off topic here, but what is the makeup of a typical 5 man FoW team?
05 Dec 2006 at 19:18 - 59
The reason we got talking about 5 man FoW is because that was the broad context i was basing my argument against SS necromancers bringing Blood Ritual. Therefore 5 man FoW is highly significant.
A 5 man Fissure of Woe party consists usually of:
Warrior - Tank
Elementalist - Echo Nuker
Necromancer - SS
Monk - Healer
Monk - Bonder
The tank must be built to take a lot of damage and keep himself alive. Its no good putting 16 in swords or axe and going in with a bunch of attack skills. W/R with Melandrus Resiliance or W/Mo with Vig Spirit and Healing Hands work well for tanking. Also, stances to reduce the times you get it, and armor buffs. He must also be good at grouping enemies nicely so the damage dealers can kill them quicker.
The ele should have Meteor Shower and a skill to repeat it, Arcane Echo, Glyph of Renewal or Echo (elite mesmer skill) are examples. Other high damage skills and spikes are needed, such as rodgorts invocation, mark of rodgort, fireball etc. [ele is the only char here i dont have, so if ive said noob skills, i apologise]. He should bring some for of energy management, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Elemental Attunement and Fire Attunement are favourites.
The SS necro should obviously bring Spiteful Spirit and Arcane Echo. With 16 in Curses, it is advisable therefore to bring other powerful hexes as you see fit. My SS build has already been pretty much picked apart in this thread. See above.
The healing monk should basically be able to heal. In my opinion the best way of doing this is 5 energy quick cast/recharge spike heals. Word of Healing [E] and Dwayna's Kiss work wonders here. Come up with your own healing build of course.
The bonder needs Life Bond and Life Barrier [E] and blessed signet to maintain the bonds. He maintain these two enchantments on each party member throughout the run. The rest of his skill slots are pretty much open. Mantra of Inscriptions, a mesmer skill, speeds up the recharge of signets so blessed signet will give you more energy over time. Essence Bond is a good one to cast on the tank, you gain one energy when he his hit.
The monks at least should bring a continuous res, but in my opinion all party members should carry a res skill, even if its only res sig.
This is of course only one way of doing it. Im sure there are countless other ways but this is probably the most tried and tested method. Barragers go here now, as well as 8 man parties. A 55monk and SS could even solo this place. These are the kind of parties i am most accustomed to going with though.
Hope this helps 
05 Dec 2006 at 20:39 - 60
You can still make use of MoP with a "tank" warrior.
13 Strength
9+ Tactics
8-10 Curses
Rest in sword mastery
Mark of Pain
Flurry/Flail
Sun and Moon
Dolyak Signet
Watch Yourself!
Defy Pain
Res
Healing Signet/Lion's Comfort
If your monks can't keep him alive with double bonds, ffs, then you know there's something wrong.
I really don't like running builds like this, because your damage is just so hampered.
I really think you could mow down mobs faster with a physical team than this SS/Meteor BS. 3 rangers and a warrior with MoP.. let's see, if they take Dual Shot and Forked Arrow under IAS, and all fire off at the same time as the warrior calls and starts attacking with his own IAS.. you're looking at at least 14 activations of MoP in less than a 3 second time window. 14*30 = 420 armor ignoring dmg. MoP is definitely one of the most powerful hexes in the game. If the warrior has some adrenaline, things get even crazier.
One idea that I've been mulling over recently, is having a team with a necro at 16 curses, Awaken the Blood, and Archane Echo, or possibly Glyph of Renewal or Echo (whatever gives it the most spammability). Just ditch SS and put Mark of Pain on multiple targets. Why? Well, make sure the 3 rangers with an IAS also have barrage. Or you could just use dervishes with Twin Moon Sweep, though that wouldn't be as large of an area. Freakin 92 damage for 1 set of attacks! Yes, I'll take that, ty. 3 barrages = 276 damage, in the first second of battle. (3 rangers) 3 barrages each = 828 damage. SS cannot touch this with a mile long pole. I'm not sure if Forked Arrow and Dual Shot would help in this scenerio or not. Yes, MoP causes flee. So pin those mofos down, or just activate it enough times it doesn't matter. You could make one of the rangers a R/D with Barrage and Harrier's Grasp.
05 Dec 2006 at 21:49 - 61
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The SS necro should obviously bring Spiteful Spirit and Arcane Echo. With 16 in Curses, it is advisable therefore to bring other powerful hexes as you see fit. My SS build has already been pretty much picked apart in this thread.
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Because obviously you have a lot of time to use all of them. If you used 3 SS + Reckless Haste and 2-3 skills and the monsters are still not dead (and you have an echo nuker on your team), I think it's time to get a better team.
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if an Ele needs BR, you need another Ele...
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Ele, other than in The Deep pre-NF running echo chain meteor shower, should not need BR. But you can't guarantee that and leaving in the middle of a farm trip (unless short.. then again if it's short you should be able to solo it), is not time-smart.
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Theres another point i was going to make but i thought id get laughed at. Someones already said it though. An SS can deal much more damage than an ele!!! so why should the best damage dealer have to make up for a less efficient one.
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Because this is GW, not some solo grinding MMO that is all about you. It's like the person with Rez saying: Why should I bring Rez, my skillbar is obviously more dangerous without it - I shouldn't have to make up for someone who died.
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Invoke Lightning ftw!
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<3 Fav Air Elite =D
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Ether Signet is great on a monk, combined with Mantra of Inscriptions and Signet of Devotion/Rejuvination.
Oo didn't think about that, thought you meant Ether Signet by itself on a character.
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I *always* run my warrior as full damage. I do carry a res, as any player should, period.
Full damage = No Heal, No Rez, all damage.
I think you meant "I bring self-heal [Healing Signet and/or Lion's Comfort] and Rez + all attacks", which is what most warriors should bring since your armor + health already makes you a tank (Sigh... I miss Watch Yourself =/).
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A lot of times when I monk, I end up being the only one. There's been dozens of times that a BR from a ranger or something has saved our team from a nice spread of DP.
I never said bring BR for the monks to spam it, I have been saying "bring BR in case of emergency", but then again, according to some people it's a waste of a skill slot but Rez isn't.
So... since your SS is so important that I must bring all damage skills/spells, why don't you list the build out and tell us why you would bring certain skills.
06 Dec 2006 at 02:39 - 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraofMana
Because this is GW, not some solo grinding MMO that is all about you. It's like the person with Rez saying: Why should I bring Rez, my skillbar is obviously more dangerous without it - I shouldn't have to make up for someone who died.
Full damage = No Heal, No Rez, all damage.
I think you meant "I bring self-heal [Healing Signet and/or Lion's Comfort] and Rez + all attacks", which is what most warriors should bring since your armor + health already makes you a tank (Sigh... I miss Watch Yourself =/).
We've been over this.. the difference is, Res Sig will bring someone back to life, and BR just gives whoever a crutch to lean on. I personally think that you can make room for BR. Whether or not you should bring it is the debate. I don't think you need to, and you probably should just ragequit if someone requires it of you.
I don't take a self heal on my warriors. Natural AL is fine. If I die, so be it. I'll know who to blame. (the monk with no energy management)
I don't take all attacks either, there are plenty of skills that will make you more productive than that, such as Flail/Frenzy and adrenaline gaining skills.. Enraging Charge, For Great Justice! and To The Limit! come to mind.
06 Dec 2006 at 03:41 - 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraofMana
So... since your SS is so important that I must bring all damage skills/spells, why don't you list the build out and tell us why you would bring certain skills.
Very well...heres my SS build i take for 5 man FoW. This does not count for ANY other instance, mission parties, sorrows furnace etc...
Curses: 16
Domination Magic: 9
Soul Reaping: 9 (i think)
The Stonereaper
Ressurection Signet
Power Spike
Power Leak
Parasetic Bond
Desectate Enchantments
Malaise
Spiteful Spirit
Arcane Echo
Res sig for ressurecting...I use it very sparaingly, only if the party is in desparate trouble. Will very rarely be used on anything other than a monk. I often make a point of recharging this at the Priest of Menzies.
Spike and Leak for interupting. This is most commonly used on monks with heal area or eles and shadow beasts if theyre left over. Good for damage (61 from spike with 9 in Dom Magic) and energy drain of monks (19 with 9 in Dom Magic).
Parasetic bond, ive a feeling everyone will jump on me for this and call me a noob. The reason i bring it, its a self heal for 126hp. Its not a very versatile one, but if i throw it out on a couple of enemies and they gradually die, it has saved my life every now and then. What it does is at least give me SOME control over my life. Obviously its no good if im being attacked constantly or i receive a heavy couple of spikes. but its the only thing that keeps me from putting my survival totally in the hands of the monk. It can also save their energy if its activated at the right time.
I will admit, i am considering dropping this from my build, so dont criticise me too heavily for this.
Desecrate enchantments. Is a good spike, especially for monks and eles. Monks in FoW almost always have zealots fire on them sometimes healing breeze, so i can do 85+ damage to one and all surrounding enemies for 10 energy/15 sec recharge. It isnt amazing because of the rechange time, but its a decent spike, coupled with power spike i can punch a lot of damage quickly on an unsuspecting monk or ele, not even casting SS.
Maliase, an unusual hex but let me explain. gives -2 energy degen for 37 seconds (i think) which is highly significant if youre a monk. It takes a spellcasters degen down to that of a warrior. Therefore reducing their capacity to heal and making things easier to kill. I have a way of taking down a single monk by itself. Malaise, SS, desecrate, then get ready with the interupts. energy will slow up, power leak will drain a lot and more will be wasted trying to cast. desecrate will damage it for 85 and SS will finish it off as it tries to attack me. I can do this if the enemies break up and theres one monk healing the group. Very useful technique.
SS and Arcane Echo are pretty self explanatory.
Im not saying this is the best build, any tips for improvement would be welcome, but i think it allows me to fulfil my "roles" and much more besides. It is also very adapted to 5 man FoW which is why i believe it does its job very well.
Hit me with your best shots!
06 Dec 2006 at 04:07 - 64
If you can't manage your own energy as an ele or a monk, then you shouldn't be going to high damage areas where you really have to. When I play as a monk in a decent party, I NEVER run low on energy because word of healing and dwaynas kiss heal for ridiculous amounts. With eles, as long as they don't spam high energy cost spells continuously, then fire attunement should be more than enough, it always is for me. I only have a low level necro that I'm working on right now, but it would piss me off to have to babysit other people who can't manage their energy. Blood ritual is a spell that allows lazy/incompetent monks and eles to piss away their energy and then expect a few points of regen to make up for it.
06 Dec 2006 at 05:23 - 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Sebolta
Very well...heres my SS build i take for 5 man FoW. This does not count for ANY other instance, mission parties, sorrows furnace etc...
Curses: 16
Domination Magic: 9
Soul Reaping: 9 (i think)
The Stonereaper
Ressurection Signet
Power Spike
Power Leak
Parasetic Bond
Desectate Enchantments
Malaise
Spiteful Spirit
Arcane Echo
Replace Power spike with Defile enchantments (Factions copy of Desecrate), like you said, it does alota dmg in that area, but putting all those points in Domination for Power spike just isn't worth it. If you have Nightfall, Sig of lost souls > Para bond. Malaise/power leak?  E-denial in pve seems really silly. You got a big problem with bringing BR yet you got those two in your skillbar? =/ You're E-denying (barely) the enemy npc's (keyword: npc) rather than helping to maintain your human monk's energy (keyword: human). The difference between a human and an npc in pve is that an npc has a short life span of a few seconds. Really, save the leak/malaise for pvp where it has use. A few pve enemies tend to have special attributes and stats anyways - Extra hp, armor, massive dmg using a little wand, and extra energy is another likely advantage. If you want to interrupt, Power return is much better. 5energy/recharge, and the downside of giving the target energy, but it's pve, you're giving energy to things that will die in a few seconds and probably had full energy anyways.
Your build doesn't seem to have a special "thing" going on that could be more important than somethin as small as br. I'd also recommend Enfeebling blood - aoe dmg-reduction on attackers is pretty powerful in pve.
06 Dec 2006 at 13:32 - 66
enfeebling blood not needed, bonds take a warriors attack down to single figures.
I dont have factions or nightfall, thats why im only running prophecies skills.
the fact is, i DO NOT NEED to bring blood ritual, or should not need to at least with competant monks. Occasionally ill switch out res sig if they want me to, but it doesnt mean ill use it regularly on them.
9 points in Dom magic is a small price to pay, what else does a SS curses necro put that extra chunk of points into. dont say soul reaping, 9 is enough.
yes denying energy in pve monks may seem trivial, but ive tried and tested it and it works very well. Like i said, this build has matures over a long time and its very suited to 5 man FoW. Not only do i use malaise on monks, on a warrior it will give them 0 energy regeneration and on a ranger, 1 regen. This will deny them powerful attack skills like hundred blades and savage shot, which is really annoying for any spellcaster taking on shadow rangers.
power leak and spike are more about interupting than damage/E-reduction. They are both domination magic and are accessible with 12/20 sec recharge, not including halvs recharge 20% on my staff.
On the topic of E-denial, if a monk keeps healing the enemies, wont that prolong the fight? Therefore increasing the demand on my own monk's energy? So isnt E-denial doing the exact same job as BR, as in preserving the monk's energy. Only difference is, my way kills them faster.
I probably would use defile enchantments as well if i had factions, but there you go.
06 Dec 2006 at 14:59 - 67
Why does everyone talk like SS and MoP are mutually exclusive? Last time I checked they were in the same line and only one was elite.
I bring them both on my curse necro and they both go well with Enfeebling Blood. Everything else is situation dependent.
06 Dec 2006 at 15:26 - 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Sebolta
Hope this helps
It does indeed. Sort of similar to a 5-man Tombs team except with an ele instead of a MM. Thanks, Phoenix.
06 Dec 2006 at 16:00 - 69
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Originally Posted by AuraofMana
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Theres another point i was going to make but i thought id get laughed at. Someones already said it though. An SS can deal much more damage than an ele!!! so why should the best damage dealer have to make up for a less efficient one.
Because this is GW, not some solo grinding MMO that is all about you. It's like the person with Rez saying: Why should I bring Rez, my skillbar is obviously more dangerous without it - I shouldn't have to make up for someone who died.
Again, so why doesn't the ele bring Blood Ritual? After all, this is not some solo grinding MMO that is all about him. What happens to the team if the necro is down and the monk desperately needs a shot of BR?
One thing I think I still disagree with Phoenix about is the need to take the ele as part of that team in the first place. I'm thinking that another SS necro or even a MM would work just as well or better and you wouldn't have to worry about some ele who doesn't understand energy management crying about BR. Plus a second necro could carry a second BR for the monks, eh? But I have only been in FoW once with a group and it's been a while, so I'm not sure whether there is some specific need for the ele there.
06 Dec 2006 at 16:22 - 70
Meteor shower is very useful and almost essential for knockdown and interupting monks. Althought it can be done with just an SS. Ive been considering the possibility of bringing an MM instead of an ele. Less worries about energy management and good for Barbs, another hex in the curses line up.
06 Dec 2006 at 19:17 - 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Sebolta
Meteor shower is very useful and almost essential for knockdown and interupting monks. Althought it can be done with just an SS. Ive been considering the possibility of bringing an MM instead of an ele. Less worries about energy management and good for Barbs, another hex in the curses line up.
A second necro might also open up the possibility of using spinal shivers for interrupts on enemy monks and casters. A MM could also (if he has Nightfall) use Order of Undeath along with Barbs for lots of extra damage. Bringing a good domination mesmer with E-surge, cry of frustration, and other nastiness might also work. Like I said, I've only been in the FoW once other than a few trips solo farming the shore with my warrior.
06 Dec 2006 at 21:04 - 72
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Res Sig will bring someone back to life
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IS
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a crutch to lean on
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Not bring BR is assuming nothing horrible happens where the Monk runs out of energy. Bringing Rez is a precaution against someone's death.
It's like why do Backline people bring self-heals when there are monks? Because shit happens.
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If you can't manage your own energy as an ele or a monk, then you shouldn't be going to high damage areas where you really have to.
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That's why teams use BiP?
BR is to use when something happens.. and how do you guarantee you are teamed up with a decent monk with E-management? Telling people to ping... and kick whoever lacks the exact build you are looking for will just never get the thing started - try Factions Elite Mish for example, you know how hard it is to get a team?
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Curses: 16
Domination Magic: 9
Soul Reaping: 9 (i think)
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, what else does a SS curses necro put that extra chunk of points into
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Since BR isn't needed cuz shit wont happen, bring another Superior Rune in. Blood Magic = the shiznit.
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Malaise
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This isn't PvP.
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Parasetic Bond
Most likely won't need a coverhex. If you are going to bring a crappy conditional heal (since monsters won't get killed that fast), why not bring BR?
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Power Spike
Power Leak
Spinal Shiver anyone?
There, you just emptied 4 skill slots and replaced 2 of those with 1, so that nets you 3 empty skills.
Bring Reckless Haste, BR, and something to keep you happy.
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enfeebling blood not needed, bonds take a warriors attack down to single figures.
You can argue both way really - sometimes enchants get removed, but it's not that important to bring Emfeebling Blood, just keep "GASP" BRing your Monk when that happens.
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Again, so why doesn't the ele bring Blood Ritual? After all, this is not some solo grinding MMO that is all about him. What happens to the team if the necro is down and the monk desperately needs a shot of BR?
HMM IDK? Maybe is because they have Mesmer secondary for Echo/A. Echo?
Ele definitely doesn't have long time casts of Meteor Showers... so heck, why not just give them BR right? And wow let the SS have a sword and go up front because he won't have anything else to do after he SS's a few times.
The MM definitely needs to go up front... I mean, takes like 2 sec to use Botm and heal.
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Plus a second necro could carry a second BR for the monks, eh?
Ever seen the SF 5man? Why the hell does the SS carry a BR?
And why does in 55/SS, the SS carries BR? I mean he is THE ONLY damage dealer after all, so he must use all skillbar for damage because that is the definition of a full time damage dealer.
You could just 2-3 maning FOW, it's slower but the drop rate > extra time overall.
My MM is too awesome... with Dark Bond and Infuse Condition and like 4 minions because I am a full time minion master... don't need Rez or Self-heal.... Monks can do that... I need all my skill bars to be efficient with MM because helping my team means giving them a crutch, and this is totally not a team game - cooperation means nothing, it just means I must lower my 1337ness so I can carry those noobs over.
After all, they should be able to do everything.
06 Dec 2006 at 22:43 - 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraofMana
Not bring BR is assuming nothing horrible happens where the Monk runs out of energy. Bringing Rez is a precaution against someone's death.
It's like why do Backline people bring self-heals when there are monks? Because shit happens.
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This is a false argument. If you die, a rez is necessary to recover. If you run out of energy, there are MULTIPLE ways to recover, and you are trying to necessitate that one particular class bear the weight of preventing that.
That leads to abuse of the system. It doesn't take long for a lousy Ele or Monk to be calling "I have 1 energy!!!" and all the Necro is doing is running around BRing Ele, Monk, Monk, Ele, Monk.....
It's ok to be the "Energy Bitch" if that's what you're signing up for at the start. But, clearly that's not what most necro's want to be doing. So if it comes down to YOU managing your energy, or ME managing your energy, I vote that you do it.
Now....... Are you taking about farming? or completing a needed Mission/Quest?
If it's for a mission or quest, then yea, take BR and live with it. It will increase the odds of success, and you only have to win the mission/quest ONCE and you're done.
If it's for farming...everyone better be able to manage their own energy. I'd only take BR if I had an empty slot and nothing I wanted to add.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraofMana
That's why teams use BiP?
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No one uses BiP, except for The Deep or on Guild teams with very specific high-energy builds. Not farming PUGs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraofMana
HMM IDK? Maybe is because they have Mesmer secondary for Echo/A. Echo?
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Do you have any idea how much energy management is available between the Ele and Mes lines? An E/Me has ZERO excuse for running out of energy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraofMana
Ever seen the SF 5man? Why the hell does the SS carry a BR?
I've run 5 man SF 70 Trillion times. The SS doesn't need to bring BR. Same argument, unnecessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraofMana
And why does in 55/SS, the SS carries BR? I mean he is THE ONLY damage dealer after all, so he must use all skillbar for damage because that is the definition of a full time damage dealer.
Because this is a specific team build. Not a random PUG where you get what you get. Apples vs. Oranges.
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Originally Posted by AuraofMana
My MM is too awesome... with Dark Bond and Infuse Condition and like 4 minions because I am a full time minion master... don't need Rez or Self-heal.... Monks can do that... I need all my skill bars to be efficient with MM
4 whole minions on a full time minion master, eh? Wow.
No self-heal on the MM? Now wait...your arguing that the SS should take BR to make the monks job easier, and you are running a MM without a self-heal?????
I think we've just identified WHY the Monks need BR!!
07 Dec 2006 at 00:12 - 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
This is a false argument. If you die, a rez is necessary to recover. If you run out of energy, there are MULTIPLE ways to recover, and you are trying to necessitate that one particular class bear the weight of preventing that.
Abso-friggin-lutely!!!
07 Dec 2006 at 12:47 - 75
Play with friends then you wouldn't have to explain why you won't bring BR to the group.
Also a hint for when posting: be clear about what you talk. Aparently you are talking about 5 man FoW ONLY. Which doesn't become clear unless you read the whole thread.
Maybe the way you run your necro is more efficient then others. I wouldn't know, I hardly do the runs your do.
5 man FoW?
Monk, Tank, Ele, Necro, Ranger - fast as ever and you won't need interrupts on your necro. Enfeebling blood and reckless haste makes this possible. Heck, learn to play without bonds and you'll be down to 3 manning it in no time.
EDIT:
Do you try to go for clearing the quests of FoW? Or do you just kill stuff skipping certain parts that are too hard?
07 Dec 2006 at 13:54 - 76
If its my group, ill clean the place if possible. Other groups usually only make their way to forgemaster.
07 Dec 2006 at 14:34 - 77
Good!
We do all quests when time permits in my group
But an error7 usually stops us when we get to the burning forest.
07 Dec 2006 at 17:03 - 78
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Originally Posted by AuraofMana
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Again, so why doesn't the ele bring Blood Ritual? After all, this is not some solo grinding MMO that is all about him. What happens to the team if the necro is down and the monk desperately needs a shot of BR?
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HMM IDK? Maybe is because they have Mesmer secondary for Echo/A. Echo?
Ele definitely doesn't have long time casts of Meteor Showers... so heck, why not just give them BR right? And wow let the SS have a sword and go up front because he won't have anything else to do after he SS's a few times.
The MM definitely needs to go up front... I mean, takes like 2 sec to use Botm and heal.
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Since you seem to be missing the point, how about the ele bringing blinding flash?
To be even more blunt, I see no reason for a necro to carry a skill he doesn't need for the possible support of an additional damage caster which the necro himself can out-damage. It's just a ridiculous proposition.
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Plus a second necro could carry a second BR for the monks, eh?
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Ever seen the SF 5man? Why the hell does the SS carry a BR?
On the better 5-man teams I've seen he doesn't. And if he did it sure wouldn't be for the ele as the better 5-man team builds I've seen don't have an ele in them. Tank, MM, SS, prot monk, healer ftw...
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And why does in 55/SS, the SS carries BR? I mean he is THE ONLY damage dealer after all, so he must use all skillbar for damage because that is the definition of a full time damage dealer.
You do understand there is a major difference between a 5-man team and a 2-man, right? And you do understand that good 55 monks doing 2-man UW farming don't need the SS to bring BR, right? I mean the UW can (or could) be farmed using a 2-man famine ranger and 55 monk. The ranger sure doesn't bring BR.
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You could just 2-3 maning FOW, it's slower but the drop rate > extra time overall.
As you've pointed out the FoW can be 2 or 3 manned. If it can be successfully done with only 2 or 3 people then one could ask why with 5 people and the team having 16-24 more skill slots than the 2 or 3 man does one player need one of the others to do energy management for him?
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My MM is too awesome... with Dark Bond and Infuse Condition and like 4 minions because I am a full time minion master... don't need Rez or Self-heal.... Monks can do that... I need all my skill bars to be efficient with MM because helping my team means giving them a crutch, and this is totally not a team game - cooperation means nothing, it just means I must lower my 1337ness so I can carry those noobs over.
After all, they should be able to do everything.
Apparently in your view cooperation is a one way street. Either necros are so uber they should be able to do their job as well as support other characters who can't or choose not to manage their own energy. Or maybe your view is that at least 25% of a necro's job actually is to support other characters with their energy management. Some of us disagree. In any event don't hold your breath waiting for us to bring BR for you. Now if you want to open up you own skill bar and let me pick one of your slots in exchange for bringing BR, then maybe we'll talk. But probably not.
09 Dec 2006 at 01:35 - 79
True, but cooperation is 2 way like he says.
If one character has to make sacrefices for another's inadequacies then the inadequet one isnt cooperating.
11 Dec 2006 at 23:01 - 80
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4 whole minions on a full time minion master, eh? Wow.
No self-heal on the MM? Now wait...your arguing that the SS should take BR to make the monks job easier, and you are running a MM without a self-heal?????
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Yeah for people who can't read sarcasm.
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It's ok to be the "Energy Bitch" if that's what you're signing up for at the start. But, clearly that's not what most necro's want to be doing. So if it comes down to YOU managing your energy, or ME managing your energy, I vote that you do it.
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Again I am assuming you get shit teammates. For the last time, I am saying it's better to bring BR in case you get crappy allies.
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No one uses BiP, except for The Deep or on Guild teams with very specific high-energy builds.
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Never said everyone now did I?
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Do you have any idea how much energy management is available between the Ele and Mes lines? An E/Me has ZERO excuse for running out of energy.
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Oh hell yes I do, but I can't guarantee other people do?
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The SS doesn't need to bring BR
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