Okay I already wrote a thread on this that was locked but I will re-write and contain my frustration so that the information actually gets into the public knowledge:
Lightbringer titles are the ONLY title in the game that actually have in game benefits, especially in the later missions of NF. Once you get a new rank in the LB title track, make sure you go to the Lightbringer Rank Officer in the Chantry of Secrets. He will give you new skills and an aura/buff that upgrades as you advance in rank.
For each rank of LB, you will have a 5% damage increase on your attacks (I believe this includes spells) and a +1 damage reduction for all Abaddon's minions. (that is Margonites, Shadow Warriors, Torment Minions, Varesh, and Abaddon himself). That means as a rank 4, you would have +20% damage to these foes and a +4 damage reduction (constant, not 20% chance).
This is relatively significant as most people will drop 60K or more for a 15%^50 modded weapon and 30K for a +5 damage redux (20% chance) shield...
This bonus is only effective when the lightbringer title is checked in your hero menu.
Lightbringer gaze is seemingly weak when you first obtain it but to give you an idea of what it becomes when you are a higher level. At lvl 4 when I cast, I deal 100+ damage to 5 of the Abaddon minions it is cast at and it interrupts the foe you cast it on. Imagine what a Holy LB would do... Probably about 200 damage to up to 9 foes + the interrupt. They would have a +40% damage bonus and +8 damage reduction. You can't buy bonuses like that.
Ever tried Battle of Turai's Procession with henchies and heroes? Or the Master's quest in Gates of Torment? Get frustrated after getting wasted over and over? Imagine an entire Holy LB group spamming LB gaze. Or better yet, Echo Gazers... You could cast Gaze dealing about 200 Damage to up to 9 foes 16 times in a matter of seconds. That's approximately 3200 damage to 9 foes in less than 30 seconds...
When I am standing in Ruins of Morah trying to put together a masters group, I don't care if you have mapped all of Cantha, capped 100 elite skills, opened 15000 chests, or actually played drunk for 10,000 hours. What I do care about is people who will do a significantly higher amout of damage, have a skill that is massive AEO damage that will interrupt enemy healers and nukers, and require less healing as a result of their LB rank.
Think about it...
The Importance of The Lightbringer Title (revised)
Mad5cout
LordDeArnise
You know, the moderators are right when they closed your first thread. Not everyone have the time or the committment to put in those many needed hours of repetitive fighting to obtain Lightbringer Rank 8. Granted, those Realm of Torment quests can help in boosting up Lightbringer pts, but players are still looking at many hours of time spent in Desolation, Vabbi, and Realm of Torment, killing thousands of Elementals, Margonites, and ultra tough Torment Creatures.
I can understand your apparent frustration, based on your closed thread. Yes, the Torment creatures can shred groups in seconds if they aggro wrong, but you have to remember that not everyone will be able to committ countless hours of killing and farming to obtain Lightbringer Rank 8, and the torment quests and missions are still manageable even if a player has only 1-2 Ranks of Lightbringer. So please consider other players' circumstances before you go out and try to "persuade" every GW players who have NF to spend a few days' worth of gameplay - about a week or so of gametime - raising up their Lightbringer Ranks.
I can understand your apparent frustration, based on your closed thread. Yes, the Torment creatures can shred groups in seconds if they aggro wrong, but you have to remember that not everyone will be able to committ countless hours of killing and farming to obtain Lightbringer Rank 8, and the torment quests and missions are still manageable even if a player has only 1-2 Ranks of Lightbringer. So please consider other players' circumstances before you go out and try to "persuade" every GW players who have NF to spend a few days' worth of gameplay - about a week or so of gametime - raising up their Lightbringer Ranks.
Jade_Onyx
If you're going to rant get the facts straight. Lightbringers Gaze does 100 holy damage, AT EVERY LEVEL. So at rank 8, you hit 9 foes for 100 holy damage (less after reductions) and interupt your target. You rarely get more then 9 foes, but assuming you are always hitting 9 foes, thats only 800 damage to 9 foes every 30 seconds (1600 if you are echoing it, which seems strange since most characters wont have echo on their characters).
This is not required in the game, as many people have gone through the game and beaten it before reaching rank 2-3 lightbringer (and yes getting masters). The only problems most people are having comes from the second to last mission (look it up or wait and find out if you dont know, but be warned, spoilers) and lightbringers gaze and the titles dont even work there.
Sorry, I just don't know why you think your team should be rank 8ish lightbringer to get masters for the missions (later missions only). Will it make it easier? Yes...but not really, seeing as you have to farm the points in the first place. And if you can farm those points, then either your computer needs rest or you arn't having any problems killing things.
This is not required in the game, as many people have gone through the game and beaten it before reaching rank 2-3 lightbringer (and yes getting masters). The only problems most people are having comes from the second to last mission (look it up or wait and find out if you dont know, but be warned, spoilers) and lightbringers gaze and the titles dont even work there.
Sorry, I just don't know why you think your team should be rank 8ish lightbringer to get masters for the missions (later missions only). Will it make it easier? Yes...but not really, seeing as you have to farm the points in the first place. And if you can farm those points, then either your computer needs rest or you arn't having any problems killing things.
Amity and Truth
Well the way i'm doing it is:
Show whatever title i feel like showing and then activate LB in the mission itself. Yes it offers some advantages but nowhere near enough to hamper with my decision which title to show.
Besides, Explorer Title shows dedication. Elitehunter Title shows experience with skills. What more to ask for? Experience and Dedicatoin > LB Title.
Show whatever title i feel like showing and then activate LB in the mission itself. Yes it offers some advantages but nowhere near enough to hamper with my decision which title to show.
Besides, Explorer Title shows dedication. Elitehunter Title shows experience with skills. What more to ask for? Experience and Dedicatoin > LB Title.
OlMurraniKasale
I agree with the OP. Use the given title for what you can get. I believe the POINT of the thread is to make people aware that this extra damage is available - consider the OP a news outlet and stop lambasting him for wanting something you don't want. Anyone else who asks "what's the point" isn't getting the point. You don't need the title, but if you got it, flaunt it! The Torment beasties sure love to use their special skills on you - time to turn the tables.
aohige
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade_Onyx
If you're going to rant get the facts straight. Lightbringers Gaze does 100 holy damage, AT EVERY LEVEL. So at rank 8, you hit 9 foes for 100 holy damage (less after reductions) and interupt your target. You rarely get more then 9 foes, but assuming you are always hitting 9 foes, thats only 800 damage to 9 foes every 30 seconds (1600 if you are echoing it, which seems strange since most characters wont have echo on their characters).
Actually, lightbringer rank affects all forms of direct damage, including spell and skills. And interestingly enough, Lightbringer Gaze is no exception.
I'm at rank8 right now, and it hits for higher damage than the default 100.
Btw, Lightbringer Gaze is NOT armor ignoring, and therefore deals much less damage to higher AR Torments.
The damage increase is most noticable against Margonite. I belive a Margonite spellcaster takes exactly 100 dmg from Gaze at around rank 4 or 5.
However, the increase is pretty slight, and nowhere near as dramatic as what Mad5cout suggests.
I'm at rank8 right now, and it hits for higher damage than the default 100.
Btw, Lightbringer Gaze is NOT armor ignoring, and therefore deals much less damage to higher AR Torments.
The damage increase is most noticable against Margonite. I belive a Margonite spellcaster takes exactly 100 dmg from Gaze at around rank 4 or 5.
However, the increase is pretty slight, and nowhere near as dramatic as what Mad5cout suggests.
Jade_Onyx
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige
Actually, lightbringer rank affects all forms of direct damage, including spell and skills. And interestingly enough, Lightbringer Gaze is no exception.
I'm at rank8 right now, and it hits for higher damage than the default 100.
Btw, Lightbringer Gaze is NOT armor ignoring, and therefore deals much less damage to higher AR Torments.
The damage increase is most noticable against Margonite. I belive a Margonite spellcaster takes exactly 100 dmg from Gaze at around rank 4 or 5.
However, the increase is pretty slight, and nowhere near as dramatic as what Mad5cout suggests. I was just saying that the skill doesn't increase in damage at higher ranks, in case the op or anyone else thought they might. I wasn't including any extra damage you get from lightbringers title. And yes, I'm aware that it isn't armour ignoring, but its good to bring up anyways, to help those that might be confused about not seeing 100s about the enemies heads.
I'm at rank8 right now, and it hits for higher damage than the default 100.
Btw, Lightbringer Gaze is NOT armor ignoring, and therefore deals much less damage to higher AR Torments.
The damage increase is most noticable against Margonite. I belive a Margonite spellcaster takes exactly 100 dmg from Gaze at around rank 4 or 5.
However, the increase is pretty slight, and nowhere near as dramatic as what Mad5cout suggests. I was just saying that the skill doesn't increase in damage at higher ranks, in case the op or anyone else thought they might. I wasn't including any extra damage you get from lightbringers title. And yes, I'm aware that it isn't armour ignoring, but its good to bring up anyways, to help those that might be confused about not seeing 100s about the enemies heads.
cba
To get the Elona Protector title, Lightbringer Ranks are not needed. If you have good healing, you won't miss the damage reduction much. I want Max Lightbringer just to show off, not for any bonus really.
Maxiemonster
But it takes 50 hours or something if you have a good group, many people don't want to put that much time in a title.
First of all, I'm a Monk, I can use the damage reduction, but I won't get much out of the extra damage (even though I always take Gaze with me when fighting Abbadon's creatures). And still, it's only about 1/4th of one chapter, that's really not worth 50 hours to me. - I'll get it anyway though, I need it for PKM
First of all, I'm a Monk, I can use the damage reduction, but I won't get much out of the extra damage (even though I always take Gaze with me when fighting Abbadon's creatures). And still, it's only about 1/4th of one chapter, that's really not worth 50 hours to me. - I'll get it anyway though, I need it for PKM
Cyan The Archer
I would agree that a tier 8 group would be awesome, but not needed. A permanent lvl 5 Shielding Hands on everyone, and +40% with huge firepower.
I wont invite any players in The Realm of Torment who dont want to use their Lightbringer title. I dont care about their rank in it, as long as they use it.
I wont invite any players in The Realm of Torment who dont want to use their Lightbringer title. I dont care about their rank in it, as long as they use it.
Rera
LB rank is most noticeable on warriors, to the point where I consider r4+ simply mandatory for Realm of Torment. Warriors do a *lot* of damage at higher ranks, and the 8 damage reduction is most effective on warriors due to their innately high armor. There is actually quite a severe difference between an r8 warrior and an r0 warrior.
Lightbringer's Gaze is not to be underestimated. While it isn't strictly necessary, it makes the Realm of Torment easier by entire orders of magnitude. Everyone in your party should bring it, including your monks. Aside from the spiking potential in a coordinated team, the constant interrupts makes it impossible for the torment creatures to actually do anything before they die. An r8 team simply steamrolls the Realm of Torment.
Lightbringer's Gaze is not to be underestimated. While it isn't strictly necessary, it makes the Realm of Torment easier by entire orders of magnitude. Everyone in your party should bring it, including your monks. Aside from the spiking potential in a coordinated team, the constant interrupts makes it impossible for the torment creatures to actually do anything before they die. An r8 team simply steamrolls the Realm of Torment.
zen321u
A couple of the titles have a bonus. Wisodm and treasure hunter has a better salvage rate. I enjoy the use of that, as well as LightBringer, so I'm working on that title.
Zinger314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rera
Lightbringer's Gaze is not to be underestimated. While it isn't strictly necessary, it makes the Realm of Torment easier by entire orders of magnitude. Everyone in your party should bring it, including your monks. Aside from the spiking potential in a coordinated team, the constant interrupts makes it impossible for the torment creatures to actually do anything before they die. An r8 team simply steamrolls the Realm of Torment.
Therein lies the problem: If you have an r8 team, why are you even in the Realm of Torment anymore? 
AlienFromBeyond
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Therein lies the problem: If you have an r8 team, why are you even in the Realm of Torment anymore?
The same reason you do any area more than once.
The loot!
The same reason you do any area more than once.The loot!
Amity and Truth
Wait, there is loot in Nightfall?
Rera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Therein lies the problem: If you have an r8 team, why are you even in the Realm of Torment anymore?
Your statement leads to this logical progression:
1) You imply that the only reason to be in the Realm of Torment is to farm LB points.
2) But the main advantage of LB rank is to be more powerful in the Realm of Torment.
3) If we consider 1) and 2) together, the entire point of LB rank is to farm LB faster.
Now, this would result in the conclusion that LB rank is self-defeating (the only point of having it is to make getting it faster ...), if not for the fact that the upcoming elite mission is likely to be a Torment area ...
I also don't agree with what you're implying, since there are any number of things you could be doing in the Realm of Torment that are not at all related to farming Lightbringer points: doing quests, farming items, elite skill capping, etc.
Your statement leads to this logical progression:1) You imply that the only reason to be in the Realm of Torment is to farm LB points.
2) But the main advantage of LB rank is to be more powerful in the Realm of Torment.
3) If we consider 1) and 2) together, the entire point of LB rank is to farm LB faster.
Now, this would result in the conclusion that LB rank is self-defeating (the only point of having it is to make getting it faster ...), if not for the fact that the upcoming elite mission is likely to be a Torment area ...
I also don't agree with what you're implying, since there are any number of things you could be doing in the Realm of Torment that are not at all related to farming Lightbringer points: doing quests, farming items, elite skill capping, etc.
Night Winde
So does having the lightbringer title active while hanging around in a staging area indicate a players skill or give any indicator that adding that person to your team will ensure success of the mission? I think we've all seen the answer to both is usually no.
I've already seen threads where people talk about AFK farming lightbringer points. Great so now I have an R6 lightbringer in the group that still doesn't know how to play their char or their class. I'd rather have someone with no lightbringer rank that knows the skill set for their char, understands when to kill something and when to avoid it/bypass it, knows which targets to hit first and so on.
I toook my oldest char (a ranger) from Tyria through the game and am ready to do Gate of Madness. I have to go back and re-do Gate of Pain for Masters since the group I ended up in freed all the lost souls before killing the elite emisaries.
The first time in the team got wiped all except for myself and a monk. We had the joy of seeing our dead teammates say that the Monk can't heal and the Ranger (me) is only good for interrupts. 15 minutes later the Monk and I were still killing things and trying to clear a path to rez our dead team. We each had Gaze and R3 in lightbringer. The monk could heal and I was certainly doing more than interrupts. At that point does your lightbringer rank matter? No. With just the two of us it was hell trying to take out Arms of Insanity but we got a few by carefull pulling and aggro control. We didn't learn that by farming lightbringer points.
Is it helpful? Yes. Is it necessary or required? No.
I have both Tyrian and Elonian Grandmaster Cartographer titles on this char as well as Protector of Tyria. I'm proud of my Grandmaster titles, I worked damn hard for them and I intend to display them not my lightbringer rank. I can turn my lightbringer rank on as soon as we load into the mission, no one can see your title in a mission or explorable area anyway.
Don't want to group with someone who doesn't display their lightbringer title while wasting time in a staging area? Fine by me since it doesn't indicate in any way a players skill or ensure the success of a mission it's a pretty weak criteria for building a team. Asking people once they're in team chat if they have Gaze (which indicates R2 at least) and recommending everyone activate their title before going in makes more sense.
But if some of you want to rely on that as your barometer of success when picking players for your group think about this:
Skill Hunter - Took a lot of time (and gold for buying all the cap sigs) to get a title there. Not to mention the fact that they had to kill a boss for each skill. Must know something about the game.
Protector - Not as good an indicator since depending on the campaign they could have gotten run through missions or just brute forced their way through but still an indicator of some level of experience with missions and gameplay.
Cartographer titles - Once you're into the 90% + range you are generally doing this by yourself with hero/hench since most people just want to rampage through an area as fast as they can and won't wait for a person to map the zone. Whether they use a running build to map it or fight their way through either one takes some skill and understanding of character setup.
Anyone who has made R2 in lightbringer should know how this works. If they've gotten Gaze and can read (probably the most debatable part) they should know how the title works. If they haven't gotten Gaze and have enought points for R2 they should be wondering why they aren't getting anymore blessings (the green exclamation point over the priests should tell them something, if it doesn't I'd worry about having them on a team).
This is an assist, nothing more. It's no different than having SS or SV equipped on a Necro before doing Gate of Madness. It makes it easier but doesn't mean Masters is in the bag. Plenty of teams have gotten Masters in there without an SS or SV necro, some without even taking a Necro. Plenty of teams have gotten wiped in there even with an SV necro, everyone packing Gaze, and following the tips/spoilers for that mission that are outlined in the forum.
Having the skill or the build or the title doesn't mean squat if you don't know how to use it, don't understand pulling, aggro control, target priorities, etc. etc.
As someone has said (in general) PuG's are lousy. But they can be more fun and are definitely faster if everyone knows what they are doing. But even if everyone in the group was R8 and had Gaze and the Signet doesn't mean much if they don't coordinate, communicate, pay attention, etc. etc.
To be honest I get the impression that this thread was started by someone looking for an excuse as to why the teams they end up in can't get through the RoT in which case the lightbringer title becomes a good excuse. It's probably not the reason but it is a good excuse.
Good luck and good hunting everyone.
I've already seen threads where people talk about AFK farming lightbringer points. Great so now I have an R6 lightbringer in the group that still doesn't know how to play their char or their class. I'd rather have someone with no lightbringer rank that knows the skill set for their char, understands when to kill something and when to avoid it/bypass it, knows which targets to hit first and so on.
I toook my oldest char (a ranger) from Tyria through the game and am ready to do Gate of Madness. I have to go back and re-do Gate of Pain for Masters since the group I ended up in freed all the lost souls before killing the elite emisaries.
The first time in the team got wiped all except for myself and a monk. We had the joy of seeing our dead teammates say that the Monk can't heal and the Ranger (me) is only good for interrupts. 15 minutes later the Monk and I were still killing things and trying to clear a path to rez our dead team. We each had Gaze and R3 in lightbringer. The monk could heal and I was certainly doing more than interrupts. At that point does your lightbringer rank matter? No. With just the two of us it was hell trying to take out Arms of Insanity but we got a few by carefull pulling and aggro control. We didn't learn that by farming lightbringer points.
Is it helpful? Yes. Is it necessary or required? No.
I have both Tyrian and Elonian Grandmaster Cartographer titles on this char as well as Protector of Tyria. I'm proud of my Grandmaster titles, I worked damn hard for them and I intend to display them not my lightbringer rank. I can turn my lightbringer rank on as soon as we load into the mission, no one can see your title in a mission or explorable area anyway.
Don't want to group with someone who doesn't display their lightbringer title while wasting time in a staging area? Fine by me since it doesn't indicate in any way a players skill or ensure the success of a mission it's a pretty weak criteria for building a team. Asking people once they're in team chat if they have Gaze (which indicates R2 at least) and recommending everyone activate their title before going in makes more sense.
But if some of you want to rely on that as your barometer of success when picking players for your group think about this:
Skill Hunter - Took a lot of time (and gold for buying all the cap sigs) to get a title there. Not to mention the fact that they had to kill a boss for each skill. Must know something about the game.
Protector - Not as good an indicator since depending on the campaign they could have gotten run through missions or just brute forced their way through but still an indicator of some level of experience with missions and gameplay.
Cartographer titles - Once you're into the 90% + range you are generally doing this by yourself with hero/hench since most people just want to rampage through an area as fast as they can and won't wait for a person to map the zone. Whether they use a running build to map it or fight their way through either one takes some skill and understanding of character setup.
Anyone who has made R2 in lightbringer should know how this works. If they've gotten Gaze and can read (probably the most debatable part) they should know how the title works. If they haven't gotten Gaze and have enought points for R2 they should be wondering why they aren't getting anymore blessings (the green exclamation point over the priests should tell them something, if it doesn't I'd worry about having them on a team).
This is an assist, nothing more. It's no different than having SS or SV equipped on a Necro before doing Gate of Madness. It makes it easier but doesn't mean Masters is in the bag. Plenty of teams have gotten Masters in there without an SS or SV necro, some without even taking a Necro. Plenty of teams have gotten wiped in there even with an SV necro, everyone packing Gaze, and following the tips/spoilers for that mission that are outlined in the forum.
Having the skill or the build or the title doesn't mean squat if you don't know how to use it, don't understand pulling, aggro control, target priorities, etc. etc.
As someone has said (in general) PuG's are lousy. But they can be more fun and are definitely faster if everyone knows what they are doing. But even if everyone in the group was R8 and had Gaze and the Signet doesn't mean much if they don't coordinate, communicate, pay attention, etc. etc.
To be honest I get the impression that this thread was started by someone looking for an excuse as to why the teams they end up in can't get through the RoT in which case the lightbringer title becomes a good excuse. It's probably not the reason but it is a good excuse.
Good luck and good hunting everyone.
Cyan The Archer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Winde
I've already seen threads where people talk about AFK farming lightbringer points. Great so now I have an R6 lightbringer in the group that still doesn't know how to play their char or their class. I'd rather have someone with no lightbringer rank that knows the skill set for their char, understands when to kill something and when to avoid it/bypass it, knows which targets to hit first and so on. But how are we supposed to know if the r0 is better than the r6? Better bring a r6 than the r0. I would NEVER take the r0 in The Realm of Torment. Why? Because that player obviously didnt do much except for rushing through the storyline. R1 can do for me, as long as the person WILL WEAR THE TITLE. At least a high ranked LB took their time to afk it, because it isnt THAT easy to put up a working afk build that gives points fast.
I'm r8 LB myself, and i know how to play the game. I did the LB afk farm because i wanted the title before it was nerfed, and because i had other stuff to do in real life.
anshin
imo...there are only three titles that are useless...the protector titles...
except maybe for the elonian....because it is somewhat strange following two storylines at the same time...
anyways.... i rather show the title Spearmarshal than LB r8(what does rx mean?)
i think this topic is useful because i didn't know there was so much into the Lightbringer title...but that WON'T turn this title into a criteria i will use when forming parties....
except maybe for the elonian....because it is somewhat strange following two storylines at the same time...
anyways.... i rather show the title Spearmarshal than LB r8(what does rx mean?)
i think this topic is useful because i didn't know there was so much into the Lightbringer title...but that WON'T turn this title into a criteria i will use when forming parties....
Rera
@Night Winde:
Nobody is claiming that the LB title is absolutely necessary for beating the game. Many people do everything with henchmen, and they have no LB rank.
The main thing to consider here is that LB rank does confer a substantial advantage, and without the ability to determine other (arguably more important) factors, someone with a higher LB rank is more desirable.
Let's take your SS/SV necro for Gates of Madness example. Say I'm in a group 7/8 LF necro to go. There happens to be two necros who want to join. They're both random people I have never seen before, so I have no clue who is the better player. However, one of them has SS/SV, and the other does not. Which necro do you think I'm going to take?
The point is that LB rank, while not at all an indicator of player competence, *does* give players a significant advantage. A moron is still a moron no matter what LB rank he has, but at least the r8 moron will do more damage and take less.
Nobody is claiming that the LB title is absolutely necessary for beating the game. Many people do everything with henchmen, and they have no LB rank.
The main thing to consider here is that LB rank does confer a substantial advantage, and without the ability to determine other (arguably more important) factors, someone with a higher LB rank is more desirable.
Let's take your SS/SV necro for Gates of Madness example. Say I'm in a group 7/8 LF necro to go. There happens to be two necros who want to join. They're both random people I have never seen before, so I have no clue who is the better player. However, one of them has SS/SV, and the other does not. Which necro do you think I'm going to take?
The point is that LB rank, while not at all an indicator of player competence, *does* give players a significant advantage. A moron is still a moron no matter what LB rank he has, but at least the r8 moron will do more damage and take less.
ekamdu
i finished the game 3 times, of which 2 within the first week of nightfall. i had no character higher than r1 lightbringer, and it didnt really matter... had to do a few missions again but it all wasnt hard...
LB title makes it easier, but its not neccecary. I would suggest bonus teams to take high rank LB people, since this makes the whole mission easier with more succes for masters...
LB title makes it easier, but its not neccecary. I would suggest bonus teams to take high rank LB people, since this makes the whole mission easier with more succes for masters...
Antheus
LB = Infusion
It's just formulated slightly differently. You don't need it, you can finish the game, you can max it, you can do what you want.
Gaze is an extremly useful skill because of interrupts. In addition, dealing out 800 damage (for a full human group) every 15 seconds is a lot. Lastly, it's the damage reduction and damage bonus.
These add up. Right now, LB is a good discriminator for PUGs, since most will know what it is, how to get it, and how to use it. This is mostly due to novelty effect, as it will dilute through time.
It's also another incentive for players to abandon their heros for RoT, and group with players.
Getting to rank 2 and getting the gaze requires you to kill the djin groups about 3 times total, right outside the court of Sebolah (sp). That is less than 1 hour of work. It also teaches you how to handle SF (useful for pvp, heh). So getting gaze for the first mission where it becomes really handy is a really simple deal.
Any rank above that will help a bit, but won't change much.
Basically all non-caster professions get nice damage bonus as well.
Too bad this has already turned into tiger vs. bambi style discrimination. You wouldn't want to do RoF missions with someone who's not infused. Same goes for RoT, except that it's much less risky. And as always, the LB is a lot of drama over grind, without really looking at numbers. LB2, the only thing you need, is really fast and easy to obtain, mostly right alongside the missions themself.
It's just formulated slightly differently. You don't need it, you can finish the game, you can max it, you can do what you want.
Gaze is an extremly useful skill because of interrupts. In addition, dealing out 800 damage (for a full human group) every 15 seconds is a lot. Lastly, it's the damage reduction and damage bonus.
These add up. Right now, LB is a good discriminator for PUGs, since most will know what it is, how to get it, and how to use it. This is mostly due to novelty effect, as it will dilute through time.
It's also another incentive for players to abandon their heros for RoT, and group with players.
Getting to rank 2 and getting the gaze requires you to kill the djin groups about 3 times total, right outside the court of Sebolah (sp). That is less than 1 hour of work. It also teaches you how to handle SF (useful for pvp, heh). So getting gaze for the first mission where it becomes really handy is a really simple deal.
Any rank above that will help a bit, but won't change much.
Basically all non-caster professions get nice damage bonus as well.
Too bad this has already turned into tiger vs. bambi style discrimination. You wouldn't want to do RoF missions with someone who's not infused. Same goes for RoT, except that it's much less risky. And as always, the LB is a lot of drama over grind, without really looking at numbers. LB2, the only thing you need, is really fast and easy to obtain, mostly right alongside the missions themself.
Night Winde
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antheus
Too bad this has already turned into tiger vs. bambi style discrimination. You wouldn't want to do RoF missions with someone who's not infused. Same goes for RoT, except that it's much less risky. And as always, the LB is a lot of drama over grind, without really looking at numbers. LB2, the only thing you need, is really fast and easy to obtain, mostly right alongside the missions themself.
Yep. The grind aspect of it is meaningless to me, I got there just following the story and going out and doing quests as I found them. My char is rank 3 and I never intended to pursue anything beyond rank 2, it just happened.
The point I was trying to make is it is useful but it is not so important that (if anyone read the original closed thread) anyone needs to be getting that frustrated or excited about it.
As for title display as I said before, no one sees your title when you are in a mission or an explorable area. The only person who knows what title you have selected to display at that point is you.
Some of us have titles we have worked very hard for and those are the ones we display when in towns or mission staging areas. Why? Because that's the only place others see them and isn't that the point of earning a title?
So great, the OP doesn't care if some of us have explored the entire map or capped all of the elites in all three campaigns. That's fine. We (those of us who have achieved these goals) do and like to display that fact.
What this thread is saying is "none of your titles matter in the game only this one so display it so we know." Those titles may not impact gameplay but they do matter. To the person that spent the time (and I work 40 hours a week and had to re-visit almost all of Tyria for my GMC title there which took about two weeks of my gametime) they matter.
Anyone who has spent any time in a mission staging area will see messages like "P/W with gaze and <insert the latest build of the week skill> lfg" and so forth. Again that means nothing to me since it's a toss whether the person playing that char will cut it in mission or not. It tells me they've probably read the forums and know what to say to make their char more "marketable" in the PuG sector but that's about it.
We've already seen incorrect stats on what the LB skills and rank will do, people that won't have anything to do with those of use who don't display the title and others (like myself) that really don't care one way or the other.
So again my point is it's a useful assist but it's not THAT important.
The point I was trying to make is it is useful but it is not so important that (if anyone read the original closed thread) anyone needs to be getting that frustrated or excited about it.
As for title display as I said before, no one sees your title when you are in a mission or an explorable area. The only person who knows what title you have selected to display at that point is you.
Some of us have titles we have worked very hard for and those are the ones we display when in towns or mission staging areas. Why? Because that's the only place others see them and isn't that the point of earning a title?
So great, the OP doesn't care if some of us have explored the entire map or capped all of the elites in all three campaigns. That's fine. We (those of us who have achieved these goals) do and like to display that fact.
What this thread is saying is "none of your titles matter in the game only this one so display it so we know." Those titles may not impact gameplay but they do matter. To the person that spent the time (and I work 40 hours a week and had to re-visit almost all of Tyria for my GMC title there which took about two weeks of my gametime) they matter.
Anyone who has spent any time in a mission staging area will see messages like "P/W with gaze and <insert the latest build of the week skill> lfg" and so forth. Again that means nothing to me since it's a toss whether the person playing that char will cut it in mission or not. It tells me they've probably read the forums and know what to say to make their char more "marketable" in the PuG sector but that's about it.
We've already seen incorrect stats on what the LB skills and rank will do, people that won't have anything to do with those of use who don't display the title and others (like myself) that really don't care one way or the other.
So again my point is it's a useful assist but it's not THAT important.
Mad5cout
Clearly this is a matter of opinion but there is one thing that is irrefutable:
If you take a team with no LB ranks and put them through a mission and then take the same exact team (same players, same build, same skill) and give them all LB rank of 2, the latter will go faster, have a higher chance of success and overall do better in the mission. I have found this to be paramount when trying to complete master for certain missions, particularly if you do not have certain builds that help in completing things under the time resitrictions.
A couple of things to clarify:
1. As I stated in my first post, I am LB 4 right now. Anyone reading carefully would know that my damage stats for LB 8 were merely guesses. My observations on LB Gaze damage are primarly from Margonites and Shadow warriors as they do not have the armor bonus that Torments seem to have. The exact stats were hardly my point anyway. The compounding effect of LB gaze and the title were...
2. Although LB gaze has a base damage that does not change, the LB bonus does apply to this skill and changes its overall damage when used.
3. Contrary to popular belief, LB titles do not take a lot of time to get. One should be able to get LB 2 simply by getting bounties when they pass a Res shrine and completing the Primary story line. I got to LB 3 by simply getting bounties and completing all primary and secondary quests (minus some of the masters). I didn't have to farm points until I wanted LB 4. If someone is in the realm of torment without an LB 2 title, I can only assume that they are either lazy, unaware, or didn't care enough to get the bounties in the first place. I don't want any one of these traits in my party-members as they usually end up wasting my time.
4. Those L337 players that claim Godly status often get that way through experience by playing areas more than once. More than enough times to get LB titles. They also often gain godly status by farming for L337 items that have +15%^50 mods for weapons and shields with -5 damage redux (20% chance). People are willing to pay 30K, 60K, sometimes 90K+ for these items (depending on the skin). Although these people are much smarter than me (just ask them, they'll tell you), it seems to me that when you have the opportunity to get a FREE damage bonus of up to 40% (constant) and a damage redux of 8 (constant) for the realm of torment missions and areas, that this does matter in someway and is probablysomewhat significant.
5. If people want to post their other titles, that is their perogative. I am simply stating this information because even in the last mission area I find people that don't know how the title and bonuses work. So although there are some people who were and are aware and still don't care, I am not posting this for you. I am posting this for the literally hundreds of people out there I see every day that are completely oblivious to this information.
6. Finally, recognizing that I respect everyones right to post whatever title they want, I am simply not going to sift through that when searching for a party and most others will not either. No one is going to sit in town looking for party members saying, "OMG!!! There is a Master Cartographer! I am going to take the time to write out Igosukiyaki Tamguchisan so that I can PM her and see if she has an LB title!!!" They are simply going to take someone else. GLHF
If you take a team with no LB ranks and put them through a mission and then take the same exact team (same players, same build, same skill) and give them all LB rank of 2, the latter will go faster, have a higher chance of success and overall do better in the mission. I have found this to be paramount when trying to complete master for certain missions, particularly if you do not have certain builds that help in completing things under the time resitrictions.
A couple of things to clarify:
1. As I stated in my first post, I am LB 4 right now. Anyone reading carefully would know that my damage stats for LB 8 were merely guesses. My observations on LB Gaze damage are primarly from Margonites and Shadow warriors as they do not have the armor bonus that Torments seem to have. The exact stats were hardly my point anyway. The compounding effect of LB gaze and the title were...
2. Although LB gaze has a base damage that does not change, the LB bonus does apply to this skill and changes its overall damage when used.
3. Contrary to popular belief, LB titles do not take a lot of time to get. One should be able to get LB 2 simply by getting bounties when they pass a Res shrine and completing the Primary story line. I got to LB 3 by simply getting bounties and completing all primary and secondary quests (minus some of the masters). I didn't have to farm points until I wanted LB 4. If someone is in the realm of torment without an LB 2 title, I can only assume that they are either lazy, unaware, or didn't care enough to get the bounties in the first place. I don't want any one of these traits in my party-members as they usually end up wasting my time.
4. Those L337 players that claim Godly status often get that way through experience by playing areas more than once. More than enough times to get LB titles. They also often gain godly status by farming for L337 items that have +15%^50 mods for weapons and shields with -5 damage redux (20% chance). People are willing to pay 30K, 60K, sometimes 90K+ for these items (depending on the skin). Although these people are much smarter than me (just ask them, they'll tell you), it seems to me that when you have the opportunity to get a FREE damage bonus of up to 40% (constant) and a damage redux of 8 (constant) for the realm of torment missions and areas, that this does matter in someway and is probablysomewhat significant.
5. If people want to post their other titles, that is their perogative. I am simply stating this information because even in the last mission area I find people that don't know how the title and bonuses work. So although there are some people who were and are aware and still don't care, I am not posting this for you. I am posting this for the literally hundreds of people out there I see every day that are completely oblivious to this information.
6. Finally, recognizing that I respect everyones right to post whatever title they want, I am simply not going to sift through that when searching for a party and most others will not either. No one is going to sit in town looking for party members saying, "OMG!!! There is a Master Cartographer! I am going to take the time to write out Igosukiyaki Tamguchisan so that I can PM her and see if she has an LB title!!!" They are simply going to take someone else. GLHF
Paperfly
(I should probably start by mentioning that my Mesmer - who's the character I'm committed to doing all Elonian quests, including the Torment masters, on - is R3 Lightbringer. I always talk to shrine guards, so it happened automatically)
I refuse to use my Lightbringer rank as a form of protest.
...I'm not protesting rank discrimination. I've seen some pretty hysterical* shouting matches going on in the Gate of Torment, but that's got more to do with player self-confidence - people are terrified of the region, and Lightbringer rank is just one more security blanket they'll cling to, much like demanding Arcane Echo on their SS or Rebirth on their rangers.
On top of that, I'm pretty confident in the overall power of the refined, specialised party I can play if I run only heroes and henchies. So to convince me to compete on the PuG market for a tough quest in the Realm of Torment you'd have to persuade me that people would be easygoing and fun to be around - 'cause they aren't going to be more effective, no matter what their Lightbringer rank is.
So yeah, not gonna complain about rank discrimination. I refuse to use my Lightbringer rank because it destroys every other title.
Titles were concepted as an aesthetic thing - a mark of achievements, but a purely cosmetic one. ANet threw in odball titles like "drunkard" to reward intentionally quirky play, and they've been wildly popular. Specific titles can be used to define your character in much the same way as dyeing your armour pink and orange.
A title with virtually no aesthetic value, related to grind-style gameplay, that you're 'obliged' to keep active for 1/5 of the game? Yech. How does that not fly in the face of everything titles represent?
Titles also (normally) represent your character's history. As a general rule, titles represent a certain amount of affection you've lavished on the toon, worked out in hours played or gold spent with a specific intent in mind. Treasure Hunter means you've spent an unfeasible amount of gold on chests. Protector of Cantha means you've knocked back a lot of Assassins when they spammed random invites at you. These things show character. Lightbringer just means you're currently doing the local missions, same as everybody else.
...The final irony is that my Mesmer doesn't actually have a title worth displaying yet.
(and no, I'm not a big fan of the salvage title bonus either. Don't get me started!)
Quote:
I refuse to use my Lightbringer rank as a form of protest.
...I'm not protesting rank discrimination. I've seen some pretty hysterical* shouting matches going on in the Gate of Torment, but that's got more to do with player self-confidence - people are terrified of the region, and Lightbringer rank is just one more security blanket they'll cling to, much like demanding Arcane Echo on their SS or Rebirth on their rangers.
On top of that, I'm pretty confident in the overall power of the refined, specialised party I can play if I run only heroes and henchies. So to convince me to compete on the PuG market for a tough quest in the Realm of Torment you'd have to persuade me that people would be easygoing and fun to be around - 'cause they aren't going to be more effective, no matter what their Lightbringer rank is.
So yeah, not gonna complain about rank discrimination. I refuse to use my Lightbringer rank because it destroys every other title.
Titles were concepted as an aesthetic thing - a mark of achievements, but a purely cosmetic one. ANet threw in odball titles like "drunkard" to reward intentionally quirky play, and they've been wildly popular. Specific titles can be used to define your character in much the same way as dyeing your armour pink and orange.
A title with virtually no aesthetic value, related to grind-style gameplay, that you're 'obliged' to keep active for 1/5 of the game? Yech. How does that not fly in the face of everything titles represent?
Titles also (normally) represent your character's history. As a general rule, titles represent a certain amount of affection you've lavished on the toon, worked out in hours played or gold spent with a specific intent in mind. Treasure Hunter means you've spent an unfeasible amount of gold on chests. Protector of Cantha means you've knocked back a lot of Assassins when they spammed random invites at you. These things show character. Lightbringer just means you're currently doing the local missions, same as everybody else.
...The final irony is that my Mesmer doesn't actually have a title worth displaying yet.
(and no, I'm not a big fan of the salvage title bonus either. Don't get me started!)
Quote:
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Although these people are much smarter than me (just ask them, they'll tell you), it seems to me that when you have the opportunity to get a FREE damage bonus of up to 40% (constant) and a damage redux of 8 (constant) for the realm of torment missions and areas, that this does matter in someway and is probablysomewhat significant.
Er, those people are also putting 20/20 Sundering modifiers on their weapons, and will take a Chaos shield with crummy stats (as long as it's req 8!) over a collector's perfect Buckler. You're confusing two mindsets here - the genuine powergamers, who actually do the math on these things and have fairly specialised needs when it comes to pickup groups anyway; and the 'elite' who care more about perception. The latter aren't going to give a crap about any damage reduction for its own sake, not unless it impresses people at the same time. ...And at the moment, high Lightbrinnger rank just isn't glamorous enough for them. Quote:
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