I went to do some solo farming, and low and behold they run from AoE. All of them, not even 3 continued to attack. I attacked one to get him to come into AoE again, and he didn't budge. To make things worse, it seemed they waited for my spells to stop.
Can anyone else comfirm this? I might have been seeing things, but thats what it looked like to me.
AI fixed?
Llint
Darkobra
Improved Monster AI
* Monsters no longer run from AoE damage when they are very healthy, or when they think they’re very close to killing their opponent.
* Melee monsters are more intelligent about keeping themselves spread out, so that they don’t put themselves into a position where they’re highly susceptible to AoE attacks.
From Guild Wars main site. Meaning, if they're low on health and taking AoE damage, they'll run.
* Monsters no longer run from AoE damage when they are very healthy, or when they think they’re very close to killing their opponent.
* Melee monsters are more intelligent about keeping themselves spread out, so that they don’t put themselves into a position where they’re highly susceptible to AoE attacks.
From Guild Wars main site. Meaning, if they're low on health and taking AoE damage, they'll run.
Llint
I dont think you understood my post. Before all but 3 would run, and if you attacked them they wouldn't run. From what I saw, this isn't the case anymore, IE fixing AI.
RTSFirebat
Them not running means it broken... not fixed!
Making them not stand about like idiots being killed by AoE and making them run was an improvement.
How can you fix that which isn't broken?
Making them not stand about like idiots being killed by AoE and making them run was an improvement.
How can you fix that which isn't broken?
Mr_T_bot
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
Them not running means it broken... not fixed!
Making them not stand about like idiots being killed by AoE and making them run was an improvement. |
Earth
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Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
No, having them not run around like idiots when AoE spells are cast in rapid succession is an improvement.
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RTSFirebat
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Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
No, having them not run around like idiots when AoE spells are cast in rapid succession is an improvement.
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Lets put it this way:
Mob 1: Incoming Firestorm
Mob 2: so what? Its not like we have to move, lets just stand here and keep fighting.
Mob 1: That's a great idea old bean
Player: LOL OMGBBQ XD XD I R l33t, j00 not running from my AoE
Ok stupid, but you get the idea, basically if the mobs aren't running, it means they bugged out, happens sometimes.
But its not a "fix".
Sekkira
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Originally Posted by X Earth X
Would you stand in the same place when a meteor shower or fire storm was cast on you? I don't think so.
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Havre Fras
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Originally Posted by X Earth X
Would you stand in the same place when a meteor shower or fire storm was cast on you? I don't think so.
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arcady
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Originally Posted by X Earth X
Would you stand in the same place when a meteor shower or fire storm was cast on you? I don't think so.
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yes.
Good troops don't flee the moment they come under fire.
RTSFirebat
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Originally Posted by arcady
If I thought having my unit hold the line there would be the best tactical choice for taking down the enemy over routing and getting taking out with ease due to lack of any structure...
yes. Good troops don't flee the moment they come under fire. |
So basically the loss of a large number of your troops troops due to AoE = victory?
Where is the logic???
Trooper 1: Incoming!!!
Trooper 2: Maybe we should... you know side step out of the way to avoid death
General: Stand your gound men
Everyone: AAAAHHHH OH MY GOD IT BURNS!!! THE PAIN
No one is left to res/heal... gg
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Originally Posted by arcady
Good troops don't flee the moment they come under fire.
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Anyways I've made my point.
Grasping Darkness
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
No problem. So you saying if you see huge balls of fire coming down on you and your men, you just stand there an take it?
So basically the loss of a large number of your troops troops due to AoE = victory? Where is the logic??? Trooper 1: Incoming!!! Trooper 2: Maybe we should... you know side step out of the way to avoid death General: Stand your gound men Everyone: AAAAHHHH OH MY GOD IT BURNS!!! THE PAIN No one is left to res/heal... gg Good generals and troops don't needless throw their lives away ^^ Anyways I've made my point. |
no you havent. i havent done anything for the past week but ha and am sick of everyone running glyphed meteor shower (like its super sneaky and oh noes didnt see that coming) and searing flames. i used to pump fake and let the ms miss but ive started to become angry that so many are running sf/ms builds so i made this build and just stand in stacked meteor shower and while im getting knocked down i call them noobs and when i get up i wipe them out. usually on alter maps i lose because i run right for the groups i see are sf and dont even try to tactically win. and the whole time i dont drop below 50% hp. whether it be henchway sf or real people i have only lost vs them a couple times due to an oops. i only use henchys. how can you say gg when you listed the skills above? your monks have the day off or were they in the ms also?
Francis Crawford
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Originally Posted by Sekkira
I'd sidestep and attack from a different angle. I certainly wouldn't run erratically in circles.
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Run in circles, scream and shout!
Enchanted Warrior
I was just chased over and over by mobs in Elonia, party all dead but me. I try to go back and res, they stampede again from way out of my agro circle and continue to follow me to the portal. *shrug* If this stays the normal way the game runs, I will not be buying anymore chapters.
arcady
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
Good generals and troops don't needless throw their lives away ^^
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If it achieves victory, it is not needless.
As I said the last time this came up:
Don't try to tell me what a soldier should do until you've had to fire an M-16 at someone...
Going in to a 'route' and fleeing with wild abandon will get your whole team killed. Standing your ground for as long as you can will enable you to get victory. If you have to retreat, you stage it and do it in an organized manner to try and reach a point from which you can regroup and relaunch an assault.
I might agree that no flight from an AoE -ever- would be a bad thing. But the recent AI that had flight from anything and in split up directions with no regrouping plan - the running in circles pattern - that is an even worse tactical position to be in.
The 'update rumor' notes here said they would flee after sustaining a certain amount of damage, but hold the line otherwise. That would be a good tactical plan.
That said, I don't see this 'update' listed on the GW website, so has its existence even been confirmed?
Enchanted Warrior
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Originally Posted by arcady
A soldier is willing to die for their cause, and while a good leader works to minimize losses, they do -NOT- do so at the expense of the goal.
If it achieves victory, it is not needless. As I said the last time this came up: Don't try to tell me what a soldier should do until you've had to fire an M-16 at someone... Going in to a 'route' and fleeing with wild abandon will get your whole team killed. Standing your ground for as long as you can will enable you to get victory. If you have to retreat, you stage it and do it in an organized manner to try and reach a point from which you can regroup and relaunch an assault. I might agree that no flight from an AoE -ever- would be a bad thing. But the recent AI that had flight from anything and in split up directions with no regrouping plan - the running in circles pattern - that is an even worse tactical position to be in. The 'update rumor' notes here said they would flee after sustaining a certain amount of damage, but hold the line otherwise. That would be a good tactical plan. That said, I don't see this 'update' listed on the GW website, so has its existence even been confirmed? |
arcady
I'm a veteran. I've carried an M-16, and I've had to fire it at someone when my position came under attack.
I get irked at likely-civilians trying to tell me that good tactics means fleeing in panic to save your own butt and the expense of the 'missions / goal'.
I get irked at likely-civilians trying to tell me that good tactics means fleeing in panic to save your own butt and the expense of the 'missions / goal'.
Count to Potato
THe weird thing is SS isn't aoe and so they dont run from that, the problem is that they wont run when its like a one or two person group not a 5 or more person group
Masseur
Oct 25th update is where they mentioned the AI had been improved, you can find it on the main page and click the game updates and scroll down to the HUGE Oct 25th update
about the fleeing, no one was saying that, you're going to the far extreme. If the position you're in comes under fire and isn't offering you cover anymore, you simply adjust your position. No one said that meant running or fleeing, just meant possibly side stepping or moving a few steps in a certain direction out of the immediate danger, that's all.
about the fleeing, no one was saying that, you're going to the far extreme. If the position you're in comes under fire and isn't offering you cover anymore, you simply adjust your position. No one said that meant running or fleeing, just meant possibly side stepping or moving a few steps in a certain direction out of the immediate danger, that's all.
Enchanted Warrior
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Originally Posted by arcady
I'm a veteran. I've carried an M-16, and I've had to fire it at someone when my position came under attack.
I get irked at likely-civilians trying to tell me that good tactics means fleeing in panic to save your own butt and the expense of the 'missions / goal'. |
Well considering most here are "kids", you can hardly expect them to deal from any personal experience. To draw real life parallels to the game is truly stretching things a bit. I do not need to have fired an "m16" to know what killing is. I have worked the other end and put bodies into the morgue, and seen what their death did to those left behind. The fact is this is just a game, so as I said.. Try decafe..
arcady
Tactics are tactics.
Game or not, not only should the same basics apply, but they do apply. The AI running in circles and routing itself has made the game very easy for someone like me who is not normally that skilled at video game play. I simply don't "click" fast enough - but I no longer need to when they are now so amazingly easy to outthink because their tactics are so bad.
If you tell me something stupid, and tell me I am wrong, and I have the experience to know I am right, I'm going to call you on it.
The idea that fleeing to save your own skin at the expense of your goal, missions, and unit is a good tactic is just absurd. Not only will your goal fail, not only will you be responsible for the deaths of your unit mates, but split up and fleeing around like that you will no longer have their support and you will die as well.
Game or not, not only should the same basics apply, but they do apply. The AI running in circles and routing itself has made the game very easy for someone like me who is not normally that skilled at video game play. I simply don't "click" fast enough - but I no longer need to when they are now so amazingly easy to outthink because their tactics are so bad.
If you tell me something stupid, and tell me I am wrong, and I have the experience to know I am right, I'm going to call you on it.
The idea that fleeing to save your own skin at the expense of your goal, missions, and unit is a good tactic is just absurd. Not only will your goal fail, not only will you be responsible for the deaths of your unit mates, but split up and fleeing around like that you will no longer have their support and you will die as well.
Trvth Jvstice
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Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior
Well considering most here are "kids", you can hardly expect them to deal from any personal experience. To draw real life parallels to the game is truly stretching things a bit. I do not need to have fired an "m16" to know what killing is. I have worked the other end and put bodies into the morgue, and seen what their death did to those left behind. The fact is this is just a game, so as I said.. Try decafe..
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Enchanted Warrior- Are you a paramedic or Firefighter? Professional Firefighter/EMT here. We don't have to deal with the morgue where I work (the private ambulances take care of body removal here), but I have seen more than my share of death and it's effect on others.
lg5000
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Originally Posted by X Earth X
Would you stand in the same place when a meteor shower or fire storm was cast on you? I don't think so.
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Metasynaptic
Two words.
Balanced stance.
Balanced stance.
bam23
Oh ya man every1 carries that lol
ectospasm
its all designed to stop/ruin farming but for some reason they dont have a problem with us farming, they just dont want us to do it anymore. but we can if we find a new way cause all the old ways/skills were "fixed" ironically. but theyll give us a special green farming event or some other event that requires farming. yet they make things extremely rare/expensive (gems/ecto) so the avg joe's chances of becoming rich or getting his fav armor or weapons are reduced to ash. I dont understand anets way of thinking but one thing about it, its making me rethink buying the next installment.
Trvth Jvstice
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ectospasm
its all designed to stop/ruin farming but for some reason they dont have a problem with us farming, they just dont want us to do it anymore. but we can if we find a new way cause all the old ways/skills were "fixed" ironically. but theyll give us a special green farming event or some other event that requires farming. yet they make things extremely rare/expensive (gems/ecto) so the avg joe's chances of becoming rich or getting his fav armor or weapons are reduced to ash. I dont understand anets way of thinking but one thing about it, its making me rethink buying the next installment.
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pm Narutoscryed, one of the major farmers, and maybe he'll share one of his farming builds/locations.
PrismOfRedLight
To say something about the AI of heroes/henchys, phew do they love AoE or what. Several times my groups got hit with 2 Sandstorm and all the heroes do is sit there and die, man standing your ground is smart
unmatchedfury
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Originally Posted by X Earth X
Would you stand in the same place when a meteor shower or fire storm was cast on you? I don't think so.
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kk thank you genius
Thallandor
I just had 10+ charr shaman chasing me for 6 mins across the Diessa lowland while on speed boast all the time without breaking aggro at all.
FIX YOUR GAME FFS.
FIX YOUR GAME FFS.
Apharot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcady
If I thought having my unit hold the line there would be the best tactical choice for taking down the enemy over routing and getting taking out with ease due to lack of any structure...
yes. Good troops don't flee the moment they come under fire. |
Apharot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PrismOfRedLight
To say something about the AI of heroes/henchys, phew do they love AoE or what. Several times my groups got hit with 2 Sandstorm and all the heroes do is sit there and die, man standing your ground is smart
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Silent Coyote
The thing thats really annoying me with the AI at the moment is heros and hench refuse to attack a called target no matter how many times you ctrl+space the enemy.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thallandor
I just had 10+ charr shaman chasing me for 6 mins across the Diessa lowland while on speed boast all the time without breaking aggro at all.
FIX YOUR GAME FFS. |
As for this whole stand your ground vs. flee AoE debate, I think everyone can agree on this point:
If you are taking damage because of your location, it is wise to choose another location unless the cost of taking that damage is outweighed by the benefit of weathering the storm.
I.e. tanking a MS is fine if you can finish off your enemy by doing so without causing a team whipe, but is foolish if you can deal the same damage from a safer location.
Eviance
I think arcady is just pointing out that the new AI was supposed to be more "real", but honestly its just odd. I've had them run without an AoE happening at all so I know the frustration.
Watching a mob run from a lone wammo with nothing but sword skills (not even hundred blades) is just silly!
Obviously they should be going out of the range of AoE but to scatter and run like chickens with their heads cut off is just ... well... wrong lol
Watching a mob run from a lone wammo with nothing but sword skills (not even hundred blades) is just silly!
Obviously they should be going out of the range of AoE but to scatter and run like chickens with their heads cut off is just ... well... wrong lol
Thallandor
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Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Umm, so the fact that it's not easy to run low level players through the game because enemies want to kill you indicates that the game is broken? lol. Yea, I'm sure A-net is in a big hurry to "fix" this problem so they can make runners' lives that much easier.
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Made In Ascalon
Allright, this will fix everyone's problem with whether or not it really is an AI update.
A group of warriors gangs up on a ritualist. The ritualist casts arcane echo with vengeful was khanhei. Now, is it stupid or smart for them to systematically run away and wait for the duration of them to end?
Same with a monk's Shield of Judgement. If you REALLY have such a big problem with it, adapt and learn to farm different groups. I already have, the update didn't affect me very much.
A group of warriors gangs up on a ritualist. The ritualist casts arcane echo with vengeful was khanhei. Now, is it stupid or smart for them to systematically run away and wait for the duration of them to end?
Same with a monk's Shield of Judgement. If you REALLY have such a big problem with it, adapt and learn to farm different groups. I already have, the update didn't affect me very much.
Apharot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thallandor
So casters that refuse to break aggro and tag along with you even when you are at 25%+ speed boost across the entire map is NORMAL? (similar problem with the IDS area) Go troll some where else.
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Zeph
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Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Umm, so the fact that it's not easy to run low level players through the game because enemies want to kill you indicates that the game is broken? lol. Yea, I'm sure A-net is in a big hurry to "fix" this problem so they can make runners' lives that much easier.
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I've had the same thing happen and we are not talking a droks run here, we are talking piken sq to nolani. Being chased by 4 charr shaman.
If they "want to kill you" and that's all it is, then WHY is it just the monks that chase you for miles? Are they secret ninja monks that wand you for 5dmg to give a false sense of security before they open a can of whopass on you? NO?!?!?
Then why are only the monks chasing you? I tell you why... because the AI is screwed up. A.I = artifical inteliigence. You tell me where the 'intelligence' is in the logic for a monk to leave the safety of the group he is in and chase you, on his own, all through a zone. Doesn't seem very smart to me.
Oh and the best bit, considering they are trying to kill a player, is that when I stopped running the shaman also stop but don't attack. Instead they stood there and posed for some screenies with me. Maybe that's it, maybe they were just being overfriendly. lol
Apharot
I'm not seeing any of these issues. I'm going to go out and try to get one to chase me now so I can get some photos LOL. Granted, I'm not around shamans and stuff.