Winter + Greater Conflag + Mantra of Frost - A Balanced Build for DoA.... Please Read

LoKi Foxfire

LoKi Foxfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Florida

One Corgi Army {OCA}

R/Rt

12/04/06: Updated the ranger build, I've found SV/AV + Symbiosis is very good with a Dervish or with any classes using enchantments. I also added a spirit spammer Ritualist in place of the bonds. They're really, really useful. We had one monk and a Ritualist and we beat the City. Anyways, I've updated the build again. Also improved the info on body blocking, pulling, and killing enemies in the City.

I've been trying to do this build with both guildies and pugs to mixed success in DoA. We first tried doing this with trappers and 2 SF nukers but it seemed to go by to slow. So the current build is a balanced one. Anyways, the whole idea of this is to use the combination of Winter + Greater Conflagration (an old idea by the way) to make all the damage into cold damage. Then, have everyone use Mantra of Frost to decrease damage across the board for 30-42% with some minor energy bonuses across the board. Please feel free to critique this, my main problem with the balanced build in PuGs is getting a tank who can manage to avoid dragging aggro onto the rest of the group which makes it 100x easier. This is broken up into three parts:

1: General Overview
2: Skills/Atttributes
3: Strategy

General Party Make-up:1 W/Me OR 1 R/Me (I'll explain why below - Warrior preffered though) 1 R/Me 2 Mo/Me (Healer, ZB protect) 1 Rt/Me (Spirit Spammer with Soul Twisting) 1 N/Me (SS) 2 E/Me (Searing Flames Nukers)
Optional Variants:
If you can't get a Ritualist, your best bet is to find a Bonder who understands how disenchantments work. Blight / Infuse works somewhat well from what guildies have told me. You can drop one SF E/Me for a Paragon with Energy management skills and "They're On Fire" for extra damage reduction at the cost of DPS. You can also drop bonds for another nuker or damage class as well. Better yet, if I find an Angelic Bond Paragon and see how it works I might drop bonds out of this completely. You can't remove Angelic Bond from the tank and Vocal Minority shouldn't be a problem if your monks bring hex removal like they should!
Also, I'm well aware they remove enchantments so it's certain zones are better without using bonds maybe. It's up to you I suppose. Also, Lightbringers Gaze IS useful when they're all bunched up. Finally, since this build is still very early I'm not sure what type of runes you'd want to use quite yet but it's up to you. I'm providing you with the base numbers and it's up to you to decide how to modify it.

Specific Skills:

W/Me
[Stance Tank]

Inspiration: 9
Axe Mastery / Sword Mastery: 11 + 3 (1) + 1 = 15 (13)
Tactics: 8 + 1 = 9
Strength: 8 + 1 = 9

Skills:1-2 Attack Skills (if you're not going pure tank - conditions [Sever, Gash, Dismember], LB gaze is useful as well in terms of damage for energy cost) Defy Pain Signet of Stamina (optional, if you want to attack replace this with an attack skill - awesome for pulling though!) Dolyak Signet (Make sure you realize how this affects your run speed :P) Mantra of Frost "Watch Yourself" "Shields Up" Sunspear Signet
Edit: I've edited this tank - I believe it's best to just use this character as a pure tank to increase the survival rate. This means you'll have to depend on your other characters to DPS the enemies to death.

Edit #2: I actually beat the City using a Dervish tank. It's entirely possible for a Dervish to tank this given the right skills.

OR, you can bring a Ranger and have him tank the mobs for you. With Winter and Greater Conflagaration out, the ranger has an AL of 100 against all attacks while the Warrior only has 80 or 100 depending. If you wish, you can bring a Ranger using a Scythe with Apply Poison, Barbed Trap, Viper's Nest, Trapper's Focus etc. to tank for you... [[NOT TESTED]]


R/Me:
[Winter/Greater Conflag + Interrupts]

Illusion: 9
Inspiration: 8
Beast Mastery: 8 + 1 = 9
Expertise: 5 + 3 + 1 = 9 [[Expertise isn't that useful since spirits are cheap]]
Wilderness Survival: 10 + 1 = 11
Marksmanship: 0

Skills:Winter Greater Conflagaretion Lightbringer's Gaze Sympathetic Visage Ancestor's Visage Symbiosis Mantra of Frost Sunspear Signet
I've beaten the city myself using this build. We used a Dervish and he could boost his HP to around 1k and take a nice beating with a spirit spammer Ritualist. Your job is mainly to keep Winter, Greater Conflagaration, and Symbiosis up wherever you are and to SV/AV the tank after you or the tank pulls a group of enemies. If you have bonds, Symbiosis is even more useful. You need to make sure to bring both a bow and a staff and use it to switch to stop E-surge from mesmers if you're going to be pulling. Just make sure your spirits don't die when you're out there grabbing a group of enemies.

1 Rt/Me
[Spirit Spammer]

Communing 12 + 3 + 1 = 16 (I'm assuming ours was max, but it's variable)
Spawning Power 10 + 1 = 11
Inspiration: 8

Skills:Soul Twisting Union Shelter Displacement Boon of Creation Mantra of Frost Lightbringer's Gaze Flesh of My Flesh (or Lively was Naomi)
I think most people underestimate how useful Ritualists are, especially in DoA where they rip off Protective Spirit and bonds with ease. With a good spirit spammer, he should be able to keep the spirits up for long enough for your group to kill the enemies barring any possible errors on pathing and such.

2 Mo/Me (one slot should be Mantra of Frost if possible!)
[Healing Prayers]
[ZB Protect]

The monk builds are pretty well-known and most monks should have a general clue as how to run these so I'm going to save my hands and just talk about them in general. Zealous Benediction is a great elite - make sure you bring that instead of Life Sheath or Shield of Regeneration and such.

N/Me
[Spiteful Spirit]
Curses 12 + 3 + 1: (with runes)
Soul Reaping: 9 + 1
Domination: 5
Inspiration: 8

Skills:Spiteful Spirit Reckless Haste Insidious Parasite Shadow of Fear (optional, switchable for others) (Yes, I really mean it's optional...) Desecrate Enchantments Enfeebling Blood (This is a good suggestion ) Mantra of Frost Sunspear Signet
I could have skipped over this one as well but I've listed it for completeness. Mantra of Frost is somewhat optional but it really helps take out the damage the enemies do when Enraged goes off.

2 E/Me
[Searing Flames]
Fire Magic: 12 + 3 + 1 (runes again)
Energy Storage: 10 + 1
Inspiration: 8

Skills:Searing Flames Liquid Flame Meteor Shower (I usually bring this with on mine but it's up to you) Glowing Gaze Mantra of Frost Fire Attunement Glyph of Lesser Energy Sunspear Signet
Strategy

This is only a general strategy on how this should operate since I've only been in like 7-8 mobs deep into the City before we started dying when we're doing this without Bonds and as a trapper group.

The general idea of this is to have the ranger maintain Winter and Greater Conflagaration at all times when you're fighting enemies and keeping the spirits out of harms way so that all damage (physical and elemental) is cold. This idea is NOT new but I've found it helps to cut down a lot on the damage when you're pulling and with a bonder and a good tank you can eliminate it easily. Mantra of Frost gives an impressive damage reduction in most of the damage - I've been hit for 200 when Winter was down and it was cut down to 57 with Winter as a Ranger. This is mainly because rangers get their AL boosted to 100 always when Winter and Greater Conflagaration are down - they're capable of tanking when Mantra of Frost is on and do it just as well as the warriors do if not better depending on the warrior's armor. Just make sure Winter and Greater Conflagaration always stay up and you can enjoy 30-40% damage reduction along with +2 energy every time you're hit.

In general, for pulling and tanking, the idea is to let the tank get FULL aggro meaning that every mob is hitting on him. The easiest method I've found to doing this is to use the walls and ledges to your advantage. In general without going into specifics, you need find spots where the melee will get stuck on your tank who is body blocking and attack him instead. Some people want the tank to pull but I feel it's sometimes easier if I pull and train (choo choo!) the enemies onto him. Then after you loose aggro you slap SV and AV on your tank to decrease their DPS. If there are enemy monks (Ki) in the group you pulled, kill them first. Sometimes you will have dual Ki groups which will require a little bit of luck of positioning to get them to bunch up. Lay down MS on Ki first and nuke them down fast with LB Gaze. I've found LB Gaze to be a GREAT skill here regardless of your class because it allows you to do damage and interrupts! If there are no monks but lots of melee, your best bet is to MS the melee first to kill them off and free your tank. If it's all casters and ranged, then of course MS + SF them. I can only explain this so much, the more you play the more you will understand on how this works with Margonites and other mobs...


That's it for now. I'm still learning about DoA and it's challenges. This build can't do the Stygian Plains because of the mobs that spawn from the quest do dark damage...

Please feel free to help me out. I'm not too good at remember the specifics of the cookie cutter builds like SS and monks and such so please feel free to ignore and adjust accordingly. Feel free to try this out and tell me about any adjustments you made. My major problem right now is the lack of DPS and the difficulty in keeping aggro on the tank. I also want to test more if a stance tank is better or using Mantra of Frost is superior.

Sidenote: If anyone could post a decent Angelic Bond Paragon build, that would be great! I have a Paragon myself but I'm using him to spam GftE every time he lands a blow (or two if I drop "For Great Justice") to power Energizing Finale and/or Finale of Restoration. Anyways, I think Angelic Bond might be superior to Monk bonding here! Try it and post your experiences here.

Screenshots:

We beat the City using only this build of one monk (who had err7 before we killed Lord Jadoth, BiP, SS, 2 SF nukers (one who left), a Dervish tank, and me... took us 1 hour of trying to get a Ritualist and 4 hours of killing:



Also, you get Primeval Armor Remenants for killing named Margonites and other named mobs, I got one piece when we killed the named monk at the end of the City.... so here is Olias with Primeval:



Have fun guys!

Zinger314

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

Looks good. But your SS sucks royally. Here's a significantly better one:
Spiteful Spirit Reckless Haste Enfeebling Blood Shadow of Fear Lightbringer's Gaze
  • Spinal Shivers (hehe) Mantra of Frost Sunspear Ressurection Signet
    That'll work a million time better, will be more Energy efficient, and will prevent a ton more damage. Empathy and Price of Failue are crap due to long Cast times. I'd be willing to work it out.
  • black_mamba

    black_mamba

    Academy Page

    Join Date: Feb 2006

    Why would you use Shadow of Fear in a SS build? That would just take longer wouldn't it?

    Batou of Nine

    Batou of Nine

    Desert Nomad

    Join Date: Aug 2005

    California, USA

    Angel Sharks [AS] (RiP [KaiZ] T__T")

    Mo/E

    LoL you two make me giggle...

    Reckless Haste - Increases enemy hit rate. (AoE Hex)
    Shadow of Fear - Decreases enemy hit rate. (AoE Hex)

    The MAIN point of Using RH with SS, is so they INCREASE the amount of dmg that SS inflicts. With SoF, you just cancel that out. Makes both skills counterproductive to SS damage. You want an AoE cover hex? Take good ol' Suffering.

    Just some... umm... common sense is all. Hehe.

    Cheers!

    ReikoNagase

    Ascalonian Squire

    Join Date: May 2005

    I tried this kind of build before in others area. The only weak points of this winter and phy-> fire build is................. chaos, dark, & holy dmg still cannot be converted. So, you still get no damage reduction from chaos, dark and holy dmg. I havent try DoA yet, but is there any mobs in there using dark, chaos, or holy dmg?

    by the way, i finally find a better way to use the +10 against cold dmg shield, +10 against cold dmg ranger armor, + 10 against cold dmg ele armor and finally +7 against ele attack weapon mod.


    I wonder which proffesion will have the max armor and under this enviroment effect and what is the max armor you can get under this enviroment effect.....

    Zinger314

    Zinger314

    Debbie Downer

    Join Date: May 2006

    N/Me

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Batou of Nine
    LoL you two make me giggle...

    Reckless Haste - Increases enemy hit rate. (AoE Hex)
    Shadow of Fear - Decreases enemy hit rate. (AoE Hex)

    The MAIN point of Using RH with SS, is so they INCREASE the amount of dmg that SS inflicts. With SoF, you just cancel that out. Makes both skills counterproductive to SS damage. You want an AoE cover hex? Take good ol' Suffering.

    Just some... umm... common sense is all. Hehe.

    Cheers! SS on casters (who group up more often), Shadow of Fear + Enfeebling Blood + Reckless Haste on Melee (who are obviously more affected). No problems.

    Casting SS on only Melee targets is a waste.

    LoKi Foxfire

    LoKi Foxfire

    Krytan Explorer

    Join Date: Apr 2005

    Florida

    One Corgi Army {OCA}

    R/Rt

    You guys don't have to worry too much about the small points. Hell, I don't run SS often (if ever) on my necro; I prefer doing a MM. I didn't think about adding Enfeebling Blood so I'll change that. Like I said, you don't HAVE to bring Shadow of Fear and YES I understand why you don't stack RH and SoF together. Either way, the melee in DoA use mostly hammers so you're better off slapping SS and RH on a Paragon and using SoF on the Melee that bunches around your tank.

    I really don't like Spinal Shivers that much since you'll go to zero energy when all the damage everyone deals is cold to begin with when you have Winter and Greater Conflagaration.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ReikoNagase
    I tried this kind of build before in others area. The only weak points of this winter and phy-> fire build is................. chaos, dark, & holy dmg still cannot be converted. So, you still get no damage reduction from chaos, dark and holy dmg. I havent try DoA yet, but is there any mobs in there using dark, chaos, or holy dmg? Yes, there are quite a few mobs in the Stygian Planes who do Dark damage from SS and touch skills. This build will NOT do well there at all.

    Ricebox

    Ricebox

    Academy Page

    Join Date: Feb 2006

    Head Turners Inc.

    W/E

    here's my own SS build:

    N/Me
    =============
    Arcane Echo
    Spiteful Spirit
    Reckless Haste
    Desecrate Enchantments
    Blood Ritual
    Ether Feast
    Drain Enchantment/Spirit of Failure
    Sunspear Signet/Rez Signet

    Eclair

    Desert Nomad

    Join Date: Apr 2005

    2 searing flame nukers and no Paragon with "They're on Fire!"?

    I think if you add that in, you can add in even more damage mitigation along with the other buffs a Paragon can bring. Maybe drop a monk for a Paragon with Angelic Bond?

    brokenmonkey

    brokenmonkey

    Krytan Explorer

    Join Date: Feb 2006

    CA

    [UC] Uber Crue

    W/

    "The only weak points of this winter and phy-> fire build is................. chaos, dark, & holy dmg still cannot be converted."

    Yup!

    "Maybe drop a monk for a Paragon with Angelic Bond?" That was also a thought of mine after trying. But it has greater(bad) effects on the party then it sounds..

    LoKi Foxfire

    LoKi Foxfire

    Krytan Explorer

    Join Date: Apr 2005

    Florida

    One Corgi Army {OCA}

    R/Rt

    Actually, I think I'd drop the bonder for an Angelic Bond Paragon. I gotta try that out sometime. It would be like Bonding except you can't remove it with disenchantments.

    Lets Get to Healing

    Banned

    Join Date: Dec 2005

    You want see?

    True Gods of War [True]

    Mo/W

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zinger314
    Looks good. But your SS sucks royally. Here's a significantly better one:
    Spiteful Spirit Reckless Haste Enfeebling Blood Shadow of Fear Lightbringer's Gaze
    Spinal Shivers (hehe) Mantra of Frost Sunspear Ressurection Signet I hope that Spinal Shivers is sarcasm, because with Greater Conflag. up, you won't be dealing too much cold damage.

    -.-

    -.-

    Banned

    Join Date: Oct 2006

    Read the title again...

    SilentVex

    Lion's Arch Merchant

    Join Date: Nov 2005

    Maguuma Stade

    When going into the City of Torc'qua warriors and other non-casters should take a staff weapon swap so they can swap, activate mantra, and swap back. Otherwise there is no way for them to renew mantra mid-battle.

    Trelon Burg

    Trelon Burg

    Academy Page

    Join Date: Nov 2005

    Oklahoma

    Uphill Battle [uB]

    Some friends and I did a variant of this, though we didn't get the idea from these forums and we only had two monks. We cleared all the outside and parts of the city before key characters were too dp'd to progress forward at a meaningful rate.

    Two people in the group did manage to get margonite gemstone drops. We plan on going in tomorrow with some more people hopefully, since we had to take 2 heroes to make up for not finding competent people and having no available friends online with the appropriate class and skills.

    Nonetheless I'm just vouging for the GC/winter/mantra build, the idea works. Yet it takes more than just a build and players to make these things work.

    By the way, work a fertile season into the ranger. It does help despite what you might believe. And the shouts you have on your tank will in most cases be mute due to Vocal Minority necromancers, so if you want to keep them consider convert hexes or divert hexes.

    Also tanks should use the walls, especially wall edges to body block melee characters while holding aggro. In some cases the casters ball up right next to the melee enemies and then the SS and ele's, not to mention the gazes hit all of the enemies cracking their monks quickly.

    Candy Canes, bring some if you intend on completing this.

    If I think of anything else, I'll post it later. Good luck all.

    Nine Soul

    Academy Page

    Join Date: Oct 2006

    Slotting Crew

    R/

    http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10084473

    I had a similar idea, based on rangers though. Loki, you wanna talk about this and see if we can compare ideas?

    MelechRic

    MelechRic

    Desert Nomad

    Join Date: Jun 2005

    RA

    [ODIN]

    N/Mo

    I've been theorizing about what really needs to be done. Basically you're facing spammable massive damage. So...

    Slow it

    OR

    Lower it


    With my Rit I've been bringing Union + Shelter AND asking for a Curse Necro with SoF. I've also thought that a mesmer w/ Migraine or other things that cause casting to stop/slow would be valuable. Even a Choking Gas ranger with the constant interrupts could prove useful.

    Enemy casters and melee have to be approached with the Slow/Lower idea, but with different skills.

    Mad5cout

    Academy Page

    Join Date: Oct 2006

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eclair
    2 searing flame nukers and no Paragon with "They're on Fire!"?

    I think if you add that in, you can add in even more damage mitigation along with the other buffs a Paragon can bring. Maybe drop a monk for a Paragon with Angelic Bond? The major problem I found with this is that the mobs use vocal minority and most of the monks are not very quick with the hex removal if doing it at all. The hero monks definitely did not make that a priority. That skill needs to be balanced big time. Its an AEO hex and it lasts like 30+ seconds. I find myself sitting there watching my team die when I'm using my Paragon.

    Sadly, if the monks were jonny on the spot with the hex removal, the Paragon could not only reduce the damage but also heal and give everyone energy boosts with Never Surrender and Song of Power - not to mention the benefit Anthem of Envy would have in this place.

    LoKi Foxfire

    LoKi Foxfire

    Krytan Explorer

    Join Date: Apr 2005

    Florida

    One Corgi Army {OCA}

    R/Rt

    I still haven't grouped with a Communing Ritualist who has Shelter and Union and Soul Twisting. It's worth shot I guess. I'm going to be working this weekend so I won't have that much time to test it all out. Also, Vocal Minority won't stop Angelic Bond from being cast either so it's possible to create some sort of build which combines it with maybe Monk skills... no idea though.

    That being said, the biggest key to all of the areas is having a very good puller who can use walls to his or her advantage and keeps all the aggro to themselves.

    Apok Omen

    Krytan Explorer

    Join Date: Jun 2006

    Commence Aggro [BaMf]

    Mo/E

    Okay, although that build from the OP is good, i personally found myteams version to be alot more safer and inflicting higher damage:

    1 W/Me- Signet of Stamina, Endure Pain, Defy Pain, Dolyak Signet, Mantra of Frost, Res Sig, Shields Up!,

    3 E/Me- Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Meteor Shower, Liquid Flame, GoLE, Mantra of Frost, Fire Attune, Res Sig

    1 WoH monk and 1 ZB/prot monk

    1 P/Rt- They're on Fire, Glowing Signet, Ballad+Aria of Restoration, Aria of Zeal, Vocal was sogugun(or whoever his name is), Stand Your Ground!, Signet of Return

    1 R/Rt= Greater Conflag, Winter, Shelter, Union, Serpents Quickness, Draw Spirit, FoMF

    Now, I know that some of you might be saying to yourselves ''But, but, but, SS is a must in any build'' Well, we tried that, and it didnt work as well as the SF ele we placed in the build. Plus, we had tons of synergy. If you don't believe me, try it out for yourselves.

    NinjaKai

    Forge Runner

    Join Date: Feb 2006

    UK

    Duality Of The Dragon

    Personally if theres a hex heavy area. I've found Divert Hexes to be very useful.

    Antheus

    Forge Runner

    Join Date: Jan 2006

    Why force everyone to bring MoF?

    Greater Conflagration + Ward against harm. 88 armor for everyone inside ward.

    Have 2 bring "Stand your Ground" (everyone is standing inside ward anyway), and an Incoming paragon for even more damage reduction. Warder also brings maelstrom. Apart from primary paragon, someone can go secondary, for constant SyG (works well on ranger).

    This defense gives everyone +112 armor. In addition, fire nuker can go part warder for 13-15 second ward against elements, adding 24 on top of that.

    There should be a single tank, with one monk supporting them with SB and prot. Due to such high damage reduction, and slightly different AI behaviour than usual, everyone, including tank can be close enough to stand in the ward.

    1 R/P: greater conflag, stand your ground, fertile season?
    1 E/Me: ward against harm, maelstrom, water attunement, glyph of lesser energy, mantra of resolve
    1 P/x: Incoming, stand your ground
    1 Mo/x: Spell breaker, SoA, PS

    The rest is open. One, or perhaps even two glyph nukers (echo is a bit annoying), possibly a br or bip necro, preferably a SS with br. It might be even better to use ranger for SB tanking, due to their high armor.

    This is tested to work with a 2 monks group, second one WoH healer and can hold off even two margonite groups, as long as tank manages to even remotely hold agro. Maelstrom will almost entirely eliminate all caster damage for 1/3 of the time, and even a bit more due to energy the mobs waste.

    It hasn't been tested on further groups, and is only intended for the city.

    If monks still want to use Mantra for e-management, they simply bring mantra of flame instead. Ward against harm and conflagration must be constantly down.

    Group must cooperate to always stand within wards, which, given the high defense, isn't a problem.

    jaibas17

    Banned

    Join Date: Jul 2005

    Tampico, Mexico

    Blood Eagle [BE]

    W/Mo

    divert hexes removes up to 3.

    my screen had its width covered with hexes at a time... perhaps 15

    Horible

    Frost Gate Guardian

    Join Date: Jun 2006

    Horible and Hex [Own]

    R/

    Apok Omen, love your build i'm gonna try it when i get back on guildwars. In the mean time i made a gw-shack page for it. I kinda guessed on the atts, trying to figure the best for each class

    Here is the link:
    http://gwshack.us/48e4d

    enjoy

    Horible

    Total Rogue

    Frost Gate Guardian

    Join Date: Apr 2006

    California

    Team Love [kiSu]

    W/

    what about dropping the warrior tank for an elementalist neverending obsidian flesh tank? Packing loads of enchants for dwaynas kiss.

    Advantages: you can't strip the enchants because obsidian flesh stays up forever. You keep loads of enchants on yourself for dwaynas kiss. You have more armor than a typical warrior.

    Disadvantage is you can't pack mantra of frost, however with the extra armor and not being able to be hit by spells you should be more than equal to the task.

    E/R

    Staff with +20% to enchants

    16 earth magic
    10 WS
    rest in energy storage

    Obsidian Flesh
    Glyph of Concentration
    Serpents Quickness
    aura of restoration
    Kinetic Armor
    Armor of Earth
    Ward against Harm
    Res Signet


    any thoughts? Something i've missed about the DoA that would make this not work?

    Horible

    Frost Gate Guardian

    Join Date: Jun 2006

    Horible and Hex [Own]

    R/

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Antheus
    Why force everyone to bring MoF?

    Greater Conflagration + Ward against harm. 88 armor for everyone inside ward. Invoke Lighting will have you die as fast as a fish in a desert. Only physical damage would be given 88 armor to everyone.



    Horible

    Antheus

    Forge Runner

    Join Date: Jan 2006

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Horible
    Invoke Lighting will have you die as fast as a fish in a desert. Only physical damage would be given 88 armor to everyone.



    Horible Why?

    Most of casts are done against tank anyway and fails or doesn't even go off due to spellbreaker.

    If it does hit inside the casters, the damage they receive (after considering all other bonuses) is around 1/3 of that without protection.

    Add on top of that maelstrom, and it's no longer a problem.

    Invoke lightning hurts much less when you have 200+ armor instead of 60.

    And besides, the total reduction by wards is much greater than MoF can provide, and since it applies to all, even its 2 extra targets hits for much less.

    This is tested. Unless we had a really exceptional tank who handled agro better than usual (considering he was using mending, he had to be a pro - no joke), then this does work.

    I'll test the MoF next, to see if it's really that much better.

    LoKi Foxfire

    LoKi Foxfire

    Krytan Explorer

    Join Date: Apr 2005

    Florida

    One Corgi Army {OCA}

    R/Rt

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apok Omen
    Okay, although that build from the OP is good, i personally found myteams version to be alot more safer and inflicting higher damage:

    1 W/Me- Signet of Stamina, Endure Pain, Defy Pain, Dolyak Signet, Mantra of Frost, Res Sig, Shields Up!,

    3 E/Me- Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Meteor Shower, Liquid Flame, GoLE, Mantra of Frost, Fire Attune, Res Sig

    1 WoH monk and 1 ZB/prot monk

    1 P/Rt- They're on Fire, Glowing Signet, Ballad+Aria of Restoration, Aria of Zeal, Vocal was sogugun(or whoever his name is), Stand Your Ground!, Signet of Return

    1 R/Rt= Greater Conflag, Winter, Shelter, Union, Serpents Quickness, Draw Spirit, FoMF

    Now, I know that some of you might be saying to yourselves ''But, but, but, SS is a must in any build'' Well, we tried that, and it didnt work as well as the SF ele we placed in the build. Plus, we had tons of synergy. If you don't believe me, try it out for yourselves. I agree. Searing Flames + MS seems to do a lot more damage here than SS does - my primary reason for inclusion is to reduce the damage the melee does with Reckless Haste and Enfeebling Blood (and SoF depending on your preference) - Spiteful Spirit is some additional damage that helps drop the mobs a little faster.

    I'm going to try a R/Rt like yours in a total support role to see how it works out. The problem is that without Soul Twisting your Shelter/Union are going to go splat very quickly.

    Horible

    Frost Gate Guardian

    Join Date: Jun 2006

    Horible and Hex [Own]

    R/

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Antheus

    Invoke lightning hurts much less when you have 200+ armor instead of 60.
    I don't know if you understand me.

    Lightning damage is not fire damage, therefore the 88 armor that you would receive from ward against harm would not trigger. Sure the extra 24 for it does, and from ward against elements, but not 200+ armor. Stand Your Ground, yes also increases your armor, but again, not to 200+




    Horible

    Antheus

    Forge Runner

    Join Date: Jan 2006

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Horible
    I don't know if you understand me.

    Lightning damage is not fire damage, therefore the 88 armor that you would receive from ward against harm would not trigger. Sure the extra 24 for it does, and from ward against elements, but not 200+ armor. Stand Your Ground, yes also increases your armor, but again, not to 200+ You're right.

    What is strange though, is that it worked. Perhaps the extra ward against elements and other overall armor increase, with full-group shutdown caused by maelstrom helped more, but in any case, the damage dealt to group was surprisingly small. That's why I even bothered mentioning this.

    Horible

    Frost Gate Guardian

    Join Date: Jun 2006

    Horible and Hex [Own]

    R/

    Weird. Thats quite odd that it actually worked for fire damage even though invoke lightning is lightning damage :-/. Ill have to test it out more. Im actually considering trying a balanced group with a cg ranger to disrupt the mob.


    Horible

    falling demon

    Frost Gate Guardian

    Join Date: Jun 2006

    dunno

    Dawn's Omen {Leader}

    W/Mo

    The idea of GF, Winter and MoF is that ALL damage becomes cold, so ALL damage is reduced by MoF, PLUS you get energy.. although you can still throw in Ward Against Elements too, for more defense.

    Seems everybody and their mother is running something around this in DoA now, and it works.. until the ranger forgets to replace spirits, and when you all die, calls you all noobs and ragequits, i know not all rangers are like that, but i've had experience with 12 of them today.. only 2 have been good and 1 had to go for lunch, the other one we made it all the way through the City of Torc'qua with <3

    Flowah

    Flowah

    Banned

    Join Date: Jul 2005

    Shields Up [IMBA]

    W/

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Batou of Nine
    LoL you two make me giggle...

    Reckless Haste - Increases enemy hit rate. (AoE Hex)
    Shadow of Fear - Decreases enemy hit rate. (AoE Hex)

    The MAIN point of Using RH with SS, is so they INCREASE the amount of dmg that SS inflicts. With SoF, you just cancel that out. Makes both skills counterproductive to SS damage. You want an AoE cover hex? Take good ol' Suffering.

    Just some... umm... common sense is all. Hehe.

    Cheers! lol. You dont have to hit with your attack for SS to activate. You lose the common sense wars! RH > You.

    Bel

    Bel

    Academy Page

    Join Date: Nov 2006

    Guildless

    W/

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flowah
    lol. You dont have to hit with your attack for SS to activate. You lose the common sense wars! RH > You. Lets see if I understood this right...

    You use Spiteful Spirit on the target and then cast Reckless haste (+25% attack speed, -XX% chance to miss) to cause more damage. Now if you would also throw in a Shadow of Fear (-50% attack speed) what good would that do? Hmm Spiteful still damages through misses though.

    Two April Mornings

    Two April Mornings

    No Luck No Time No Money

    Join Date: Nov 2005

    Amherst College, MA

    Scars Meadows [SMS]

    Me/

    SS is somewhat useless. Spoil victor is much better in this case, to my experience. This concept is very good except, liek some have mentionned, it lacks damage. That seems to be the general problem. With a group of 3 nukers, even we didn't do enough damge to the large mobs within the city.

    Wilhelm

    Wilhelm

    Krytan Explorer

    Join Date: Jul 2006

    Canada eh

    looking for mature, luxon pvx guild

    Mo/

    Don't even think that a standard WoH can be successful here. The only success I've had monking was when I ran this custom build:

    Healing Prayer - 12-14 (Wouldn't suggest using anything above minor rune)
    Divine Favor - 12-13

    1 - Healer's Boon
    2 - Orison
    3 - Dwayna's Kiss
    4 - Ethereal Light
    5 - Heal Other/Jamei's Gaze
    6 - Renew Life/Rebirth
    7 - Mantra of Lightning
    8 - Holy Veil

    Since most of the attacks in the DoA are upwards of 250+ and occur pretty quickly, the standard healing won't cut it. Casting time is just not fast enough.

    A heal other while under Healer's Boon can heal upwards of 350, while the smaller heals get close to 200. Think of it as Infusing over and over.

    A BiP necro is needed for this.

    Antheus

    Forge Runner

    Join Date: Jan 2006

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by falling demon
    The idea of GF, Winter and MoF is that ALL damage becomes cold, so ALL damage is reduced by MoF, PLUS you get energy.. although you can still throw in Ward Against Elements too, for more defense. Yes, that was established.

    The only good thing that did come out of the experiment, is maelstrom. That devastates the casters, and echo maelstrom might actually do wonders, or even glyph maelstrom. Mobs didn't apear to run away or even scatter, at very least they got interrupted during the initial spike.

    Of course, water eles have somewhat less use as nukers.

    So perhaps it was that which cut damage down so drastically.

    Horible

    Frost Gate Guardian

    Join Date: Jun 2006

    Horible and Hex [Own]

    R/

    Just used Apok's build, worked very very well

    Only down falls:
    1. Tank was not on vent so he over aggroed, aggroed in the wrong places, and used dolyak when we were running XD
    2. Paragon left, and we were still doing well, but then monk left.
    3. No real "build" issues


    Here is the link: http://gwshack.us/48e4d


    Horible

    Carth`

    Carth`

    Desert Nomad

    Join Date: Apr 2006

    I think you should forget about the idea of a tank. It is becoming less and less useful in PvE, and in DoA especially, is really quite useless.

    Here's an example from DoA earlier:
    We wanted the tank to get all aggro on him. A year ago this would have been easy. Aggro was very easy to manage. Not any more with the crazy AI.

    We put a prot spirit and Spellbreaker etc on him, and he ran off, lured a group closer, and attacked it. The rest of the party was TWO aggro circles behind. The guys wielding hammers ran straight past the tank without even attacking him once, and went straight for the squishiest character. Wtf? Indeed, everything just ran straight past the tank and attacked the weak members of the party, even though we were well out of radar range and hadn't started to attack or cast spells yet.

    If characters are being super spiked for 480 damage and killed in 1 hit, with no way to predict who will be hit next, what use was the tank standing there looking pretty? If everyone is bringing MoF and Winter + GF, then you are trying to keep everyone protected because you know they'll be attacked. What is the point of the tank then?

    Let the warrior do what he does best and deal some damage. He will still have great armour, it just won't be wasted on a character that does nothing.