Thanks Anet. While applaud you for repairing bugs rapidly, I really think you should undo the effects of said bugs.
Heres my complaint.
Lightbringer rank AFK farm
Those of us who didn't know about the AFK LB point farming exploit before the update have obtained our LB ranks in legit fashion. But the fallout of this is those of us who didn't exploit cant even get a group for DoA because we don't have high enough LB rank. All of them (ok most) got it through the exploit and now those of who don't have r6 or better are treated like red headed step child's by other players in DoA cause our rank is n00b.
I don't really like the prospect of grinding out till rank 7 LB in the vortex. More grind in the anti-grind game...
Thoughts? LB AFK Exploit and the after effects...
Red-Tide
Knightsaber Sith
Technically I think it's against the license agreement to use any exploit. I remember some people got banned for exploiting chest runs which resulted in chests needing keys.
Frankly there's no way to take back the ranks some people unfairly gained; and it wouldn't make much sense either to put the exploit back in the game. Just grin and bear it til they're ready to put the "easy" way of gaining the ranks in the game.
Frankly there's no way to take back the ranks some people unfairly gained; and it wouldn't make much sense either to put the exploit back in the game. Just grin and bear it til they're ready to put the "easy" way of gaining the ranks in the game.
reetkever
This will never happen, cause there are people who grinded their rank 9 together. What, you wanna screw them as well?
Same goes for farming btw, people who farmed are rich now, and people who were too late can't afford anything now. So, you wanna reset the whole economy?
This is what's eliteness in the game. Even if it's obtained by exploits, it doesn't matter, in the end, it's all about the results.
That's how it is, if A-net resets the ranks, they'll screw even more people who earned it. Just like the screwed farmers and lots of people's builds. I don't think they'll do it right after the big update, and 3 months later, lots of people already have a high rank, so...
Same goes for farming btw, people who farmed are rich now, and people who were too late can't afford anything now. So, you wanna reset the whole economy?
This is what's eliteness in the game. Even if it's obtained by exploits, it doesn't matter, in the end, it's all about the results.
That's how it is, if A-net resets the ranks, they'll screw even more people who earned it. Just like the screwed farmers and lots of people's builds. I don't think they'll do it right after the big update, and 3 months later, lots of people already have a high rank, so...
Kai Nui
It's a bad situation, but not a good solution. I think a good way to solve this is to put it back in, but from LB6+ you don't get points for summoned or resed creatures. maybe LB6 is too high, maybe 5 would be good, I don't know.
Avarre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Red-Tide
I don't really like the prospect of grinding out till rank 7 LB in the vortex. More grind in the anti-grind game... |
You don't need an LB rank at all.
Knightsaber Sith
No argument will ever convince Anet to reinstate an exploit. Not even a somewhat nerfed exploit.....
Ole Man Bourbon
LB grind is a little tough, particularly for multiple characters.
Shanaeri Rynale
Resposted from another thread..
Ok i'll play Devil's Advocate. I enjoy seeing a nice discussion once in a while
Why was this an exploit and the AFK 9 rings, the lutgardis FF run(people stayed put, let a runner get the points and then got the reward), or letting a monk rez a mob in order to get sunspear rank 9(afterall AN did'nt intend people to get to r9 just yet) not?
Is something an exploit only if AN change something so it no longer works?
The only reason I can think people might think it was an exploit was that it did'nt require players to actually do anything after a certain point in time and not continuously. But then again so did 9 rings and the FF run(walk outside, wait for running, get reward). LB rank does give an in game bonus, but then so does lucky/unlucky/Steward of xxx etc, in that it contributes to KoBD. So I dunno..
The Lutgardis FF run gave 100 gold and 2000XP i think. So was'nt 9 rings and the FF run more of an exploit since it affected the economy?
The exploits I do remember for sure were the doppleganger one, where a bug let you get 50K XP over and over again and the 12/8 GvG teams. Both of which were so obviously bugs.
But I really dunno on this one, I note in the closed thread that someone had sought clarification from AN on it. I wonder what came back.
Ok i'll play Devil's Advocate. I enjoy seeing a nice discussion once in a while
Why was this an exploit and the AFK 9 rings, the lutgardis FF run(people stayed put, let a runner get the points and then got the reward), or letting a monk rez a mob in order to get sunspear rank 9(afterall AN did'nt intend people to get to r9 just yet) not?
Is something an exploit only if AN change something so it no longer works?
The only reason I can think people might think it was an exploit was that it did'nt require players to actually do anything after a certain point in time and not continuously. But then again so did 9 rings and the FF run(walk outside, wait for running, get reward). LB rank does give an in game bonus, but then so does lucky/unlucky/Steward of xxx etc, in that it contributes to KoBD. So I dunno..
The Lutgardis FF run gave 100 gold and 2000XP i think. So was'nt 9 rings and the FF run more of an exploit since it affected the economy?
The exploits I do remember for sure were the doppleganger one, where a bug let you get 50K XP over and over again and the 12/8 GvG teams. Both of which were so obviously bugs.
But I really dunno on this one, I note in the closed thread that someone had sought clarification from AN on it. I wonder what came back.
Spike
I'm sure there is an way to take back ranks and I'm sure it would not be that hard to do either. So once again the exploiters win and the people who just play the game get the shaft. Thanks Anet.
Red-Tide
My thoughts exactly Spike.
Myria
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith
No argument will ever convince Anet to reinstate an exploit. Not even a somewhat nerfed exploit.....
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(Edit : Shanaeri Rynale beat me to it, and put it better besides)
Darcy
The only way to take away the exploit benefits is to roll back the server. As the bug was probably there from day one (just undiscovered), that would mean we all would have to start over.
I don't think that would make the rest of the game population very happy.
I don't think that would make the rest of the game population very happy.
Shanaeri Rynale
Another devils advocate question. Was it even a bug. A bug has unintended results, maybe getting LB points from spawned mobs was intended as you did'nt get XP or drops from spawned mobs.
Maybe AFK and rank 9 sunspear farming caused AN to review the intentions behind those titles and change them. Thats not a bug, just a change to how something works. I suspect this is what happend.
Cf prot bond, other 'nerfs' etc etc.
Maybe AFK and rank 9 sunspear farming caused AN to review the intentions behind those titles and change them. Thats not a bug, just a change to how something works. I suspect this is what happend.
Cf prot bond, other 'nerfs' etc etc.
broodijzer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Avarre
You don't need an LB rank at all.
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Ate of DK
Who would have thought that someone finds a way to farm LB-points in such a way? Do you think Arenanet knows it before it even is found to be effective?
I don't think so. It's creative thinking of the one who found it and offcourse Arenanet can't solve the problem right away. It has to be spread first among players before the can notice... or do you think someone is behind a desktop all day acting like Big Brother who watches you.
There are Bugs such as these and there will be again in future. It's always been like that in Guildwars.
I don't think so. It's creative thinking of the one who found it and offcourse Arenanet can't solve the problem right away. It has to be spread first among players before the can notice... or do you think someone is behind a desktop all day acting like Big Brother who watches you.
There are Bugs such as these and there will be again in future. It's always been like that in Guildwars.
Avarre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by broodijzer
It gives a huge gameplay advantage over the ones with a low rank, as opposed to fow armor, rare skins, titles etc.
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Xenrath
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
Resposted from another thread..
Why was this an exploit and the AFK 9 rings, the lutgardis FF run(people stayed put, let a runner get the points and then got the reward), or letting a monk rez a mob in order to get sunspear rank 9(afterall AN did'nt intend people to get to r9 just yet) not? |
Being able to just go afk and then come back and end up with something which has a bearing on gameplay (possibly over someone else who maybe didn't AFK it/didn't farm it at all) is definately exploiting. AFK'ing for a pointless/zero impact title such as Lucky is just well.. pointless.
Shanaeri Rynale
Still playing devils advocate
9 Rings does give an in game effect. It counts towards Kobd and effects the economy(gold sink). After all who is a pug going to choose, someone with a kobd or not?
Lutgardis FF runs, where 7 plays stay still and an 8th runs the quest and all 8 get the reward has an in game effect also. Not only does it contribute towards a title but it gives XP and money. Loads of alliances were doing the FF run at the peak of factions.
These two methods are still in the game and have not been changed
As Avarre said, it's not needed, in some cases it's a hinderance by taking up a skill on a bar. It's title a bit of fun
It's not a bug, just players finding a tactic that does'nt fit in with the way AN want it played at or after that point in time.
Consider prot bond, I don't think AN testers even thought of it being used in a low health way to give a player invincibility in a high end area. When players started to use it, they changed it as their vision for the UW was not as a solo place but as a team play environment. Then players decided to use Prot Spirit instead, neccesitating the introduction of dying nightmares..
Should AN take away the ecto/cash from the prot bonders?
I've tried to think of it in any other way, other than a tactic or build but I can't reconcile any other way that is'nt consistant with past history.
It's always going to be AN vs inventive players. Like an arms race if you like. EoE was nerfed, partly because players were using it to affect AB's and Urgoz, the AI was changed, partly to stop a lot of solo farm builds.
AFK LB points and Rezzing monks to get R9 Sunspear is just the same, just another chapter in the GW players constant contest to be one step ahead of the devs. That's not an exploit or a bug, just game players nature.
My personal view is I don't know if it was a bug, exploit or a lame but inventive tactic. Since it's closed off now I guess it's a moot point
9 Rings does give an in game effect. It counts towards Kobd and effects the economy(gold sink). After all who is a pug going to choose, someone with a kobd or not?
Lutgardis FF runs, where 7 plays stay still and an 8th runs the quest and all 8 get the reward has an in game effect also. Not only does it contribute towards a title but it gives XP and money. Loads of alliances were doing the FF run at the peak of factions.
These two methods are still in the game and have not been changed
As Avarre said, it's not needed, in some cases it's a hinderance by taking up a skill on a bar. It's title a bit of fun
It's not a bug, just players finding a tactic that does'nt fit in with the way AN want it played at or after that point in time.
Consider prot bond, I don't think AN testers even thought of it being used in a low health way to give a player invincibility in a high end area. When players started to use it, they changed it as their vision for the UW was not as a solo place but as a team play environment. Then players decided to use Prot Spirit instead, neccesitating the introduction of dying nightmares..
Should AN take away the ecto/cash from the prot bonders?
I've tried to think of it in any other way, other than a tactic or build but I can't reconcile any other way that is'nt consistant with past history.
It's always going to be AN vs inventive players. Like an arms race if you like. EoE was nerfed, partly because players were using it to affect AB's and Urgoz, the AI was changed, partly to stop a lot of solo farm builds.
AFK LB points and Rezzing monks to get R9 Sunspear is just the same, just another chapter in the GW players constant contest to be one step ahead of the devs. That's not an exploit or a bug, just game players nature.
My personal view is I don't know if it was a bug, exploit or a lame but inventive tactic. Since it's closed off now I guess it's a moot point
Antheus
Asking for R6 or more is relying on fact that gaze will be helpful.
That was proven to not be the case. Unless you have prepared team players, you will wipe, hard and fast. And then, margonites will laugh at your R8.
Gaze helps. But only as topping, not as the core of the build.
The title damage reduction and increase are mostly irrelevant. 8 damage reduction from 308 won't save you. And since nukers and/or trappers are primary damage dealers there, the +40 damage bonus doesn't help you either.
That was proven to not be the case. Unless you have prepared team players, you will wipe, hard and fast. And then, margonites will laugh at your R8.
Gaze helps. But only as topping, not as the core of the build.
The title damage reduction and increase are mostly irrelevant. 8 damage reduction from 308 won't save you. And since nukers and/or trappers are primary damage dealers there, the +40 damage bonus doesn't help you either.
CyberNigma
This is the rason many people didn't think it was an exploit (a bannable offense):
That was in relation to the Sunspear ranks. It is very similar to the way many people go max title on Lightbringer. If one is not an exploit (ANet didn't even know whether it was an exploit) then you would have to really stretch to call the other one an exploit. In-game benefits aside, you have almost the same exact strategy for both. I am not max lightbringer, nowhere near, but I don't blame those that did of using an exploit.
I all comes down to the village ***** being amused that someone found a work-around to a piece of their game that was not complete. In order to stave off the people complainging about an incomplete game she (in essence) told everyone that they just weren't as 'clever' as those that figured this out. Well, I guess that clever (albeit stupid) remark has come back around now. They had a year and still couldn't complete a game that was still smaller that the first one they released. It is showing in various places. It is a good game, but those that want max LB and don't already have it will just have to wait until it has been completed and fully released.
If they didn't realize early on it was an exploit, then how could the people that used it. Also, you wouldn't necessarily have the 'exploits' as a problem if they would've just released the game in its entirety. It's all about perception. It doesn't matter how they explain it, it only matters how the customers see it.
For their credit, the Domain of Anguish is really nice and challenging. It's definitely something to be enjoyed. It's just too bad that they had to taint it by not having it ready with release.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Quote:
I'd be interested in hearing if you guys think that this work-around falls in to the third category. In my opinion, I don't feel there is any harm in players having devised this work around, and since others will be able to acquire the rank in the not-too-distant future, I don't see where this requires us to amend the game to prevent it. Do you feel differently? Lastly, a lot of things were included in The Manuscripts, including content that foreshadows Campaign 4. Do you feel we "owed" that content, too, with release of Nightfall? There is only one box release, and obviously the manual is the one and only shot we have to reach the players with a printed publication prior to release of the next campaign. The update is being worked on now, and will be coming within the next few months. If you anticipated a different delivery schedule, then I apologize for your disappointment. |
I all comes down to the village ***** being amused that someone found a work-around to a piece of their game that was not complete. In order to stave off the people complainging about an incomplete game she (in essence) told everyone that they just weren't as 'clever' as those that figured this out. Well, I guess that clever (albeit stupid) remark has come back around now. They had a year and still couldn't complete a game that was still smaller that the first one they released. It is showing in various places. It is a good game, but those that want max LB and don't already have it will just have to wait until it has been completed and fully released.
If they didn't realize early on it was an exploit, then how could the people that used it. Also, you wouldn't necessarily have the 'exploits' as a problem if they would've just released the game in its entirety. It's all about perception. It doesn't matter how they explain it, it only matters how the customers see it.
For their credit, the Domain of Anguish is really nice and challenging. It's definitely something to be enjoyed. It's just too bad that they had to taint it by not having it ready with release.
Gun Pierson
As I was working on other titles lately, I finished NF with just rank (1). Now I realise they might come in handy to do the DOA area. So I started to farm points the normal way.
I'm stunished though that people judge other people for using a way that's different from the way it was ment to be by Anet. It's Anet their problem, they created it and they solved it. It's not people's fault they can use a trick to bypass stuff. Exploits get discovered, Anet finds out about them, exploit gets nerfed, it's a way to improve the game. They should thank people that find exploits, not ban them. They're good playtesters.
I was too late to use this trick, a shame for me, but that's the way it is.
I'm stunished though that people judge other people for using a way that's different from the way it was ment to be by Anet. It's Anet their problem, they created it and they solved it. It's not people's fault they can use a trick to bypass stuff. Exploits get discovered, Anet finds out about them, exploit gets nerfed, it's a way to improve the game. They should thank people that find exploits, not ban them. They're good playtesters.
I was too late to use this trick, a shame for me, but that's the way it is.
electrofish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
Still playing devils advocate
9 Rings does give an in game effect. It counts towards Kobd and effects the economy(gold sink). After all who is a pug going to choose, someone with a kobd or not? |
Until I see people spamming "GLF Kobd players for mission" or "DoA group must have Kobd" I don't think the above argument is valid, as the title is til now only a title and nothing more. Even the other two functionable titles, namely wisdom + treasure hunter, don't add additional benifit to a group while LB does.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
Lutgardis FF runs, where 7 plays stay still and an 8th runs the quest and all 8 get the reward has an in game effect also. Not only does it contribute towards a title but it gives XP and money. Loads of alliances were doing the FF run at the peak of factions.
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LB in the other hand however is different, the restrictions are not put on you by the game itself but by PuGs. Our guild group completed the first quest in DoA and most of the party members only got r2 LB, so it is not compulsary.
I guess what I want to say here is that if an exploit is found for a grind that is caused by the restriction of the game itself then let us use the exploit or better lose the restriction alltogether; If the exploit is related to the restrictions that's placed upon by the other players (also known as discriminations whether it's LB rank, HA rank and even to some extent player's profession) then fix it.
sindex
All I have to say about this, to the original poster. Is that there are other exploits A-net has the least amount of info about. It's all about perspective; find another way to do so. I guess I’m going to do it the less of the most easy way to get it, but I rather be honest and work for it.; then to later deal with any guilt in exploiting a weakness in design.
Eclair
None of the groups I've gotten into asked for Lightbringer rank.
I formed a group that beat city last night, and I didn't ask for lightbringer rank.
If the group is asking for R6+ only, chances are, you're probably better off not being with them =P
I formed a group that beat city last night, and I didn't ask for lightbringer rank.
If the group is asking for R6+ only, chances are, you're probably better off not being with them =P
Shanaeri Rynale
Quote:
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Originally Posted by electrofish
You have to understand that the LB title is very different from rest of the titles available in game.
Until I see people spamming "GLF Kobd players for mission" or "DoA group must have Kobd" I don't think the above argument is valid, as the title is til now only a title and nothing more. Even the other two functionable titles, namely wisdom + treasure hunter, don't add additional benifit to a group while LB does. |
And as for using the FF run to get by a game mechanic is'nt that worse? Dunno
As noted above I'm really not sure what to think on it. I think it's a grey area. On the one hand the player did very little to earn it, on the other there are other examples still n the game where the same can be said.
The easiest way now to deal with it is to increase LB rank to 9 with 100K and since the AFK way is now closed AFK'ers would need to get it the more traditional way..
Tickle
r7 LB here and I can say that every bit of that was genuine (I grinded it out and it bored the shit outta me) and it infuriates me to see shallow minded ppl saying that anything past r6 used the exploit or others saying rollback the servers..
These sort of asinine remarks just makes this statement all the more plurable..
Ppl should have licenses to breed.
These sort of asinine remarks just makes this statement all the more plurable..
Ppl should have licenses to breed.
Nanood
Personally I have never been affected by someone elses LB title and I could care less whatever there title was..
Like so many other whinges about who got what and how they got it all I can say is who cares.. It doesn't matter. Play the game and enjoy your game and give a little less of your valuable time worrying over what other people do.
Like so many other whinges about who got what and how they got it all I can say is who cares.. It doesn't matter. Play the game and enjoy your game and give a little less of your valuable time worrying over what other people do.
Carth`
You CAN still get the Lightbringer titles though, so I don't see it as a problem. I think it is worse that any character created before titles were introduced can't get Survivor because they didn't know about it. Survivor isn't hard to get, it is just a measure of whether a character was created before or after the title existed. All my new characters are Survivors, but my oldest and most loved character can never get it.
Ninna
Lightbringer status has never been an issue for me
people care more about what Class / build you are than titles or LBG
people care more about what Class / build you are than titles or LBG
Antheus
Vent/TS > LB rank.
PUG + "R6 only" = disaster
These are the general observations I've made.
PUG + "R6 only" = disaster
These are the general observations I've made.
Mr_T_bot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ninna
Lightbringer status has never been an issue for me
people care more about what Class / build you are than titles or LBG |
I havn't even gotten to the area and I know that's a load of crap. How new are you to the game? This kind of crap has been going on since before it was released because of what is now the "Hero" title.
Cyan The Archer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by electrofish
Until I see people spamming "GLF Kobd players for mission" or "DoA group must have Kobd" I don't think the above argument is valid, as the title is til now only a title and nothing more. Even the other two functionable titles, namely wisdom + treasure hunter, don't add additional benifit to a group while LB does.
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DoA is so hard that people dont give a --- about your LB rank, and only cares about your class and build. Even classes arent being discriminated much, because so far there are no working build for PUGs.
GranDeWun
Just to beat a dead horse:
As a programmer, I would say an 'exploit' involves code that does unexpected things, versus a design that does unexpected things. For example, if someone had discovered that holding the Shift+Alt+Tilde key while killing Torments gave you 1000 LB points each, that would be a clear exploit. But farming the ressurrecting Torments, whether AFK or not, was never an 'exploit'. (And by the way, was it being AFK that made it bad? What if you sat there the whole time?) If ANet thinks it is a design flaw to fix, fine. But it was never an 'exploit'.
And for what it's worth, I was too lazy to get my LB rank above 6
As a programmer, I would say an 'exploit' involves code that does unexpected things, versus a design that does unexpected things. For example, if someone had discovered that holding the Shift+Alt+Tilde key while killing Torments gave you 1000 LB points each, that would be a clear exploit. But farming the ressurrecting Torments, whether AFK or not, was never an 'exploit'. (And by the way, was it being AFK that made it bad? What if you sat there the whole time?) If ANet thinks it is a design flaw to fix, fine. But it was never an 'exploit'.
And for what it's worth, I was too lazy to get my LB rank above 6
MithranArkanere
I'm rank 4 above 6000 Lightbringer points.
I would not care about reseting it to 0, I would sacrifice my 'hard work' to punish the exploit users.
If they don't get punished, they'll keep the exploit using and not reporting bug behaviour forever.
I would not care about reseting it to 0, I would sacrifice my 'hard work' to punish the exploit users.
If they don't get punished, they'll keep the exploit using and not reporting bug behaviour forever.
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
Hahahahahahaha
I havn't even gotten to the area and I know that's a load of crap. How new are you to the game? This kind of crap has been going on since before it was released because of what is now the "Hero" title. |
and how do you know its crap without even visiting the place?
Ninna
<- played GW since release (notice my join date)
yes some groups discriminate... but its never made a difference to *me*
the way some people talk here, you would think Titles and LBG are MUST HAVES
yes some groups discriminate... but its never made a difference to *me*
the way some people talk here, you would think Titles and LBG are MUST HAVES
Wildi
weird, I did not see any random groups searching for people with high lightbringer rank yet
Cyan The Archer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
I'm rank 4 above 6000 Lightbringer points.
I would not care about reseting it to 0, I would sacrifice my 'hard work' to punish the exploit users. If they don't get punished, they'll keep the exploit using and not reporting bug behaviour forever. |
Heroes can fight themselves, and can be moved with a flag = Not an exploit
Killing a Torment creature with a blessing on gives 2 LB points = Not an exploit
Maintained Enchantments can last forever if you have enough energy = Not an exploit
The ability to stay afk in the game = Not an exploit
All that together made the afk farming possible.
Just because Anet nerfed the farming, doesnt mean it was an exploit. You can't even be sure if Gaile say it(She has been wrong before you know). A nerf does not mean it was/is an exploit.
4ssassin
meh. file this under the "people that care about prestige" cat. i finished game 2x. my monk had r2 LB and my war r1. had little trouble with groups, and used heros/hench most of the time. if people would stop caring so much about titles and fancy armor and the like, and worry more about having fun, this would be a much better game, cause then Anet wouldnt have to keep nerfing the crap out of everything to weaken the farmers. face it...it farmers werent around, we very well could still have prenerfed protective bond, no nightmares in UW, easier AI...thats just off the top of my head. hm. maybe ill make a thread on this
Rera
Quote:
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Originally Posted by GranDeWun
I would say an 'exploit' involves code that does unexpected things, versus a design that does unexpected things
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All parts of the AFK farm worked as intended individually, as pointed out by Cyan. Most of those complaining about this exploit are primarily concerned about the fact that players did not have to sit in front of their machines in order for them to gain the title. But imagine the situation where the player set up the AFK run, but then sat at the computer the whole time. Is this situation any better?
Anet's response to AFK farming was somewhat curious. AFAIK, the AFK nerf was applied in three different updates, spread over a period of several weeks. The first nerf disabled the AFK farming of Tormented Lands in Turai's Procession. The second nerf prevented spawned Torment creatures from giving XP. The third nerf prevented spanwed Torment creatures from giving LB points.
Consider the oddities. AFK farming of Torment creatures was going on at the same time as AFK farming of Tormented Lands, yet one was nerfed without touching the other. AFK farming of Torment creatures for XP was nerfed, without touching LB point gain. Only at the very end, right before the opening of DoA, was LB AFK farming disabled. It's clear that Anet knew about the situation at least as early as the Tormented Lands nerf (I forgot when the first Gurus post about AFK farming popped up, but it was several days before the nerf went into effect), yet they chose to address it not only much later, but also in two seperate nerfs. This is odd behavior if they believed this was a serious exploit.