Remember that running thing?

The thing I love about prophecies that the other 2 campaigns dont really have was the ability to run through the game. By my third char I was finding it way too tedious to play through the entire game. It was easy to get a run to droks and buy armor and play through from LA, or run to the desert and play through those missions to Ascend. I mean it was great for the E-gayers who could buy gold and pay their way through but it was great for players like me as well, who farmed the gold and didnt really want to spend all that much time playing through again. You dont really feel that aspect in Factions or Nightfall Atleast they made factions play-able and I think nightfall is great

Nightfall is so easy, that it would almost take more time for a runner to go through, than it does heroing or PUGing it.

Factions, though, are annoying.

Yeah, you are right, that running thing was horrible. People getting to places much before there where supposed to.

They should remake Prophecies to completely remove the runnin Behavior, closing doors and adding NPCs that don ot lett pass until you make the missions.

Some missions are completely deserted.

I never minded running in small amounts. I really liked being able to skip a mission to join my buddies, and simply being there getting to play it. Not Droks runs and such, but hearing that a party wasforming up to do some area and hightailing it over to meet them, missing out on something like Blodstone Fen (heck, I think I skipped that with nearly all my characters, went back for it after.)

Sure, the imposed linearity keeps the plot in line, but it's really sad to be at a place like Sebelkeh, hear that your guild is forming up for it, and realise that first you have to do 3 quests and a mission to participate, despite being right there.

All missions before Shiverpeaks are deserted because they are not only easily doable with henchies, but are a breeze with heroes.

Missions in Shiverpeaks are simple with heroes.

RoF has groups forming. Not always, but often enough. IMHO, most players there are quite experienced and are usually looking for bonus as well.

But simply put, Prophecies is just too easy for anyone to bother going in with PUGs, since heroway is much faster.

New players to Prophecies as first game are getting few and far between, and veterans don't care about it anymore - it's simply not a challenge.

They should remake Prophecies so you get around level 15..20 to Lion Arch, enemies start being level 20 in Kryta and parties of 8 from Yak's bend on.
Also making Lions Arch the first spot with max armor for some basic non ascended desings (but leaving the other desings to be acquired later)

You can easily arrive at Old AScalon from presearng at level 12, and yo go arround killing creatires that give no exp until Kryta.

now if they would do that i would just quit GW, so as alot of other people

1- playing the 1st time through is a treat! i loved doin all those quests and missions in kryta on my 2 first characters, but when it comes to my 3th, 4th 5th and 6th toon... im sorry me (and oh so many more other people) dont want to replay through this LONG campaign ALL OVER AGAIN FOR THE 6TH TIME. we just want a decent level character to do end-game things with guild/friends

2- missions deserted? well, you realise there is 3 campaigns now? players are spread all over them and most of them are in NF now anyways, since its the new game to explore

3- i keep making all my characters in prophecies cuz i like the faces. if runing wasnt allowed AT ALL anymore (im not talking about droks run nurf, but Scanctum runs and LA runs) i would just start them in NF cuz thats where im playing now.

4- if they would block runs you would see even less people there cuz nobody would bother beating this long game on elonian/canthan toons, mostly cuz most of the content is already MORE then familiar to most of us, and it would seem like a waste of time

conclusion: leave prophecies as it is, dont kill the game even more

Heh, I skipped The Wilds on all 4 of my characters until a guildie said "Can anybody help me?". I thought that was pretty funny.

Yeah, I really do miss running, especially since the Nightfall storyline only takes about 2 missions to learn the entirety of before it gets boring to play through it. I would have never suspected *spoilers removed by poster, weird huh?* was really the *spoiler* and was the endgame boss. Things like that kept me going through on my first few characters, but after a while, running was much faster and much more fun. Although I still went back and did every skill quest I could find.

If you still had to unlock things on your first time through a game, but could freely run around after that, I think we could all be happy.

/cheers
/signed
/amen

that would be soooooo awsome! i really wish they would do that

One of the problems with Prophecies was all the people stuck at Thunderhead Keep. I suspect that these were the people who got ran thru the game and never learned how to actually play the game. "But I already completed the game with one character." Yes, you learned how to play one profession. You roll a different profession and there is a new skill set to learn. And, playing a profession as a secondary is NOT the same as playing a primary profession. Playing = learning. Running through the game is like cheating in school. You may get to the end, but you are still uneducated.

JMO

Most of what I read in the guru forums about people having issues with the whole running thing seems to be people who begrudge the others. Now that some the key places in new GW chapters aren't freely accessible by every character, it kinda ruins the feel of adventuring; it feels too mission/quest-oriented and being led on. I honestly think that Prophecies-style was the best in terms of accessing towns/outposts. And yes, I miss the running part, not for the running services but for the freedom to get around places; it leaves you with no options but to do primary quests and missions (which can be boring even with another profession).

EDIT: IMO, not every learning process needs to be the same, it's quite subjective. Playing through the missions/quests doesn't neccessarily make a player adept at the used profession; it just isn't as simple as that. Learning is really a subjective thing, going through the motion doesn't neccessarily mean learning anything, I think it's more of the desire to learn and being inquisitive that matters. Anyway, I don't think going to school neccessarily means that a person becomes educated, still depends alot on that person really.

Massive changes to prophecies are not likely, it's old news and it seems it's not worth their effort. Factions will go that route also, and about half way to the next chapter after nightfall, nf will be ignored as well. Requests that get consideration will be added in the new chapters only as a way of increasing sales. Those around since the beginning know that as time goes by, old chapters go the way of the dodo.

By your third? Wow! I just missioned(and all bonuses, some skill quests) my 5th lvl 20 to Droks yesterday, not feeling its "tedious" yet, and still have another character to get there.

/agreed
If people want to run, fine, but not something Id do. Its one of the GW things I just dont get.

Amen!

Another thing anet should do is once a skill is unlocked on your account, make those skills available for your other characters. Why buy all skills over again?

Is NerfNet really so quick to forsake a previous chapter? I realize they haven't done much with the last two chapters since NF came out, but I thought it was just because they are really, really, really, really, really busy.

I was kinda hoping they'd open up Urgos and The Deep, allow runs in Cantha, fix the graphic issues with previous armor, implement the Favor system of resurrection shrines in Cantha and Elona to Tyria, and perhaps even implement insignias and inscriptions into Factions and Prophecies. And this is just the major things. There are a bunch of small things that seem to make the game feel "slapped together" at times, but it's rare.

If it's true that they have no intention of adding/fixing to the previous chapters, then that makes baby Jesus (and Mr. Rogers) cry.

Where's Gaile Gray to answer questions like this? Surely A.Net is not just going to move on and let the chapters of old degrade and dissipate...

If so, I shed tears... Many, many, many a tear for Tyria, Cantha, and soon Elona.

It would be great

or give ability to Protector title, meaning if one of your character have protector title, your other characters in that account have possibility to run through that chapter (but you still need to finish quest/mission in old fashion way, mean you able to go to last city but you will not able to take the quest/mission)

Protector of Tyria --> your other characters in the same account have ability to run through all city/outpost in tyria (not all but most of the city/outpost)

Protector of Cantha --> your other characters in the same account have ability to run through all city/outpost in cantha (not all but most of the city/outpost)

Protector of Elona --> your other characters in the same account have ability to run through all city/outpost in elona(not all but most of the city/outpost)

Note: if one of your party member dont have ability to go through the gate/portal (because he/she dont have the title yet) your party will not able to get through

/alsosigned

Was just about to post the same idea - glad I read the thread first

lock the portals in Prophecies? wtf are you retarded? I got to 59% map cleared by the time I got to the desert in prophecies. I went through every portal, didn't have a single mission open. I did all the locations but certainly not in any order as I had Santum Cay before The Wilds. If I encounter a locked portal in Prophecies that requires some mission I've done 10 times already... well I'd just about snap.

Missions are there to be made. If you don't like them... go find another game or go to PvP.

All quess and missions made! With all characters! No other way!

and what if you don't like those missions, but love the end-game areas? Being able to skip them saves a huge load of time, and this game is for the casual people without much time, right?

Missions are there to be made, If they make them too hard, they'll ave to ease them sooner or later so casual people can make them.

But all of them must be made.

In prophecies i play inch by inch with my elem, every quest every mission, enjoy the game a lot, play with my ranger every mission and enjoy the game, play with my warrior, and run run like a crazy, just cap and get every skill quest to complet all skills and run to finish the game... finish the game by third time is boring...
Well i buy factions, play with my rit inch by inch make all quests and all missions and enjoy the game, play with my sin and enjoy the game. But now i have to get my Tyria playes to cantha... holy cow you kown what is making the same thing 3 more times? i rush man i rush... just stop to cap skills you kown...
By this time i buy 3 more slots and make my necro, my mesmer and my monk... well i rush like crazy to complet them... just stop to make caps...
Now i buy nightfall and again play with my para and enjoy the game, make every quest, mission... , play with my dervish and hate the game, because dervish is a @#$#@%$#%$&^%&%&%#&^%#@#$^&*& in pve (and dont say i dont kown how to play with the dervish in pve to me), now i have 8 other players to complet the game, because to complet them you all that finish the game kown them will be only complet by finishing the game ...
I can run in Elona but not as Tyria or cantha, and is boring man very boring making all again 10 times ...
Just because i want all skills open in pve...
Well what i can say is...
Playing the game by the 2 first times is allways fun, you make every quest every mission, but by the 3... 4... 5... 10... like me is a pain in the ***
Runs FTW ever!!!!!

That is your opinion on the matter and you have that right.

I for one do not agree with that at all. To you it might be fun to do every mission multiple times with your different toons. I for one do not find it that fun. I will do every mission with like 4 or 5 of my toons and after that I like to rush them through if at all possible. Factions was extremely annoying since you had to do every mission.

I have 13 toons that I use and really do not want to do every freaking mission in order to get to the end game content.

Each person has their own opinion on what is fun and what is not. There is no need to try and force you opinion on others. I wish that ANet had not listened to the people who want to force their ways of playing a game onto others.

I love running around Tyria finding places. The Jungle missions seem to elude me for some reason. I just beat The Wild yesterday and I'd already bypassed it and went to the Crystal Desert. Some missions are just harder at certain times. I was stuck at Vizunah Square for 2 months because PUG's were ineffective, I wasn't in a guild at the time, and my skills and armor suxxored. I got lucky when the local group was full of experienced people doing masters. *lol* In Elona there isn't as much of a sense of claustrophobia as there is in Cantha. I still haven't explored half the land surround all the places I have. I wish I was strong enough to do Drok's. Elona Reach's mobs overwhelm me at bad times and Thirsty River's bosses seem to focus on killing Dunkuro and Alesia.

ooppps...double post.

In Prophecies, the latter areas (Ring of Fire) had one prerequisite: finish Thunderhead Keep; everything else was reachable without doing a mission.

In Factions, running was 'killed', you had to finish more-or-less all missions to get all areas.

In Nightfall, the latter areas (starting from the Desolation) aren't reachable either, like in Prophecies... but to actually do a mission now, you need to have done all prerequisite quests.
So in NF, you can reach about 70% of PvE without doing missions. The rest requires the effort to do the missions (and farm that damn sunspear title :-/)


I prefer Prophecies' way. First timers will likely not take a runner, and I'm getting frustrated to farm that sunspear title by killing beetles over and over again.

Same for the tutorial areas.
In Proph, you could leave Pre-Searing as soon as you had gotten a secondary profession.

In Factions and Nightfall, you need to complete the entire primary quest line in order to get to the mainland.
Of course, the mainland is for higher-level play, but still, it's quite annoying.

My dervish is already 3 weeks old, and I've only just reached Blacktide Den. My first character with who i completed PvE was an Elonian ele, and I've already lost my motivation to do the 'starter' quests again, on my Dervish this time.

ya but being forced to do a mision/quest that you absolutly hate makes the game a boring chore. this is the reason i spend more time in GH then in Elona. and this is the reason why i tough 10000 times before starting a rit (geez... play through cantha again!!!!!?) now im ok with HAVING to do 5 out of 25 missions, but HAVING to do every single mission?

Why would they remove one of their few working gold sinks?

I just came by this interview with Jeff Strain at Gamasutra during 2005. I'm starting to suspect that ANet's game objectives are going a different route than it was set out to be (hence, the differences between Prophecies and the later chapters' game design).

Original Link: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20...illen_01.shtml

some people already know how to play on their selected professions, and all they want to do is play with guildies or get skills. Is that so bad? I am all for skipping tedious quests and every mission being required. I got along fine with only a couple being required in prophecies.

What a stupid grind argument. It may be true in some cases, but these people who are stuck at THK, is it, because they are totally crap, not because they got ran.

I find it completely waste of time to play through prophecies again, and you're wrong. Playing with a new primary might as well be the same as the old primary.

There are roughly two character types, melee and caster/ranged. Imo.

Have to agree I preferred Prophecies way of doing things, Nightfall was a major improvement over Factions in that regard but prophecies is still best.

The reason I started to play Guild Wars in the first place was because of the open ended-ness of Prophecies. I remember playing it round a friend’s house a couple of days after release, and loved the fact you could just walk past missions doing quest, get some skills/ better armour and go back and do the mission later when you felt like it. Had Prophecies been like Factions or Nightfall I would not still be here playing the game 18 months later, I wouldn't have even still been playing when Factions came out.

I still play Prophecies the most, I completed Factions twice and have absolutely no interest in going through that again, I have yet to complete Nightfall (made the mistake of going dervish - stuck at second to last mission because there is to many of em to find a group, and it’s boring doing the same missions I have already done with a different char jus so I can get in a group and finish the game).

I'm all for the idea of having to complete a chapter once fully with one char and then unlocking outpost etc for all other chars on the account, in fact I'm pretty sure I suggested that a few times just after the release of Factions and before Nightfall was released.

I think the running hate comes from envy. Why should that guy get to this area before me when he/she is at lvl 6. Boo Freaking hoo

What I love the most about Prophecies is that I can explore with out having to do missions or quest. If I wanted to I could travel almost 75% of Tyra with out doing the first mission or quest. That is real freedom, that is real PVE, that is more RPG than having to perform task to get from point a to b. The inability to freely travel was one of the major down falls of Factions.

What the anti runners are really saying is that they lack the curiosity to be given a game where you are not pointed in a direction or provided a path to the end game. In Prophecies one could literally bumble around the map for months before figuring out which direction to head in to finish the game. While in Factions you we lead by the hand through the game which is why it took some only a few days to complete it. There was no room left for exploration. You were put on a path to complete the game and given no other course to take other than that path. In Nightfall it is pretty much the same as Factions with just a little freedom to allow you to choose.

As far as all three go Prophecies is the best because you are allowed to figure things out for your self instead of being force feed.

As far as running is concerned what is it to you if someone is willing to pay to be taken somewhere? If you don’t want to put up with a lvl 6 at THK then don’t take them along to do a mission. Running is yet another endgame profession that has been taken away. If people just want to mindlessly play video games there is always Nintendo, Play station, and X-box so enjoy. As for computer games the more freedom the better.

There is no reason at all top block/stop running.
You should be allowed to roam/visit places without doing missions if you wish. ok there are a few that are need such as sanctum cay to progress into new ares, but for the best part ppl should be allowed to go where they please.

I think its fair to say that most ppl will play there first char along the story and do the missions (bit pointless buying game other wise - unless you PvP in which case missions dont apply anyhow) after that most ppl may do another char but a lot of ppl will want to skip some parts at some point, even if they intend to come back later.

Myself I dont like to see lvl 5-6 players in thunderhead ect but hay so what if they are there it dont effect me in any way. I or anyone I know for that matter wouldnt include them in a group so whats the problem??

The fact is was and remains that running dosnt hurt anyone at all.. it just gives ppl who want to moan something to moan about..

One of the best bits of chapter 1 was the openness of of it all, I loved the fact you could farm, run ppl, and do what the hell you liked. I bought factions on the strenghts of chapter 1 and was unfortunately disapointed when I couldnt go around/past some points, its a little better in NF but I am worried where it is all leading.... are we all to be forced to play the same way at the same pace at somepoint in the future??... and loose the freedom we love..

ppl get run places because they can its their freedom of choice much like the ppl that have worked their way there dont have to include them in groups if they dont want to.

Lets not take anymore freedom away from the game.


On the whole changing past chapters thing...
I sometimes think its unfair to go back and change things that effect gameplay so much when ppl pay good money for something it should stay the way it was when they payed for it, unless ANet are prepaired to pay back the cash (and Im not taking about the much needed removing of bugs ect.. b4 ppl jump in).

Id be a bit miffed if I bought say a nice shinny red car and at some point after they took my money someone turned it into a green rust bucket and took the wheels ect...
New "improvments to game play" should be kept for new chapters so that plp that like the game for what it is can continue to enjoy it.

Nobody forces runners to run or forces ppl to include those that have been run in groups. Its all down to choice with no harm done.

Saying an argument is "stupid" (wasn't even really an argument, just an opinion) and telling people that their opinion is "wrong" are great ways to make a point. It is also flame baiting, but I'll pass.

the nice thing about the design of nightfall is that it totally allows running. want to run yourself up somewhere? go right ahead -- there's very few popup patrols (and what is there is easily avoided), there's none of the spike trap/degen crap you saw in factions, no locked gates... but it won't do you any good until you actually play through the primary quests and missions.

So, it's the best of both worlds, IMO.

eudas