Skill Hate and General Monking Questions

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

08 Dec 2006 at 11:24 - 1

So, I started a monk in Nightfall..got her to the end of the game, through Factions and then left it at that. I used Orison of Healing all the way through. I'm wondering exactly why Orison of Healing and Healing Breeze are hated so much. I don't personally use Healing Breeze, but from what I understand, people hate Orison because it doesn't heal for much. Thing is, I bought Ethereal Light and, although this heals for more, you can get 2 Orisons off in the time it takes Ethereal to recharge.

Why are some Monk skills utterly hated by some people...sometimes to the extent that they will kick a monk for taking a certain skill. Are there any others? I know Orison and Breeze seem to be the main ones...

Ok, onto a few more points I'm just not so sure about.

Protection sounds interesting but...what's it all about? I hear words floating around like "Boon Protect" and Guildwiki just leaves me more confusled! What types of protection monk are there and where are they best used? (I'm assuming there is not 'one protection build fits all' scenario).

After a little playing about I have devised this build for my monk when she goes Healing...how does this look and should I make any changes?
1. Holy Haste
2. Jamei's Gaze
3. Signet of Devotion
4. Ethereal Light
5. Light of Deliverance {E} or Blessed Light {E} (whichever seems more needed)
6. Words of Comfort
7. Mend Ailment
8. Resurrection Chant.

Was considering sticking in Power Drain instead of Words of Confort because I don't seem to use it too much. Also Holy Haste + HCT on my staff = 2 second Res Chant.

So yea, I'd like to play about a bit with protection but protection builds just leave me baffled as to how they work.

Can anyone help?

Anarion Silverhand

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Denmark

None

08 Dec 2006 at 12:58 - 2

I haven't heard of any Orison Of Healing hate. Ever. People do tend to hate Healing Breeze. I'm not a big fan either, because, like mending, it gives a fake sense of security. In my opinion.

As for the boon prot(ector)

It's not used as much as before, seeing as Divine Boon, which was the cornerstone of this build, got a nerf. It doesn't heal for as much as it used to.
The idea of the build was using protection spells, while healing at the same time. Reversal of Fortune was an awesome heal, and due to the fast cast times of the spells used, people preferred to run this over straight healing prayers builds. Both in PvE and PvP.

Personlly, I like to run hybrid builds, especially Blessed Light.

This is the build I'm using. For PvE.

Reversal of Fortune
Gift of Health
Protective Spirit / Spirit Bond depending on the area
Signet of Devotion
Blessed Light
Power Drain
Skill of your choice
Rebirth

Attributes are:
Divine Favor 14 (scalp + sup rune)
Protection Prayers 11 (minor rune)
Healing Prayers 9 (minor rune)
Leftover points in inspiration.

It takes some practice to get used to using Power Drain, but it's a very nice boost in energy if you get it right. Use Signet of Devotion to save energy RoF and Gift of Health are your primary heals, use Blessed Light to remove hexes, and heal of course.

I hope this was of any help.

Effendi Westland

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Isle of the dead

[DVDF][LDS]

P/W

08 Dec 2006 at 13:54 - 3

I've read some hate for Orison in this section of the forums... wouldn't know why tho...

As for Heal Breeze I can understand why it is hated. It's to easy to overheal with this spell, wasting energy.

Apart from that... I'm not the best monk. But if I go pure heal I always work Healing Seed and Vigorous spirit in.

Silk Weaver

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hong Kong

Romantically Lethal [RoLe]

R/Mo

08 Dec 2006 at 14:07 - 4

Healing Whisper heals for more and recharges faster at the same time~

Yeah, I hate orison, but I use it too. I use it ONLY because I have healer's Boon, and ONLY when ethereal and whispers cannot be used.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

08 Dec 2006 at 14:31 - 5

Why use Orison when you can use Gift of Health and go Protection?

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

08 Dec 2006 at 14:36 - 6

Orison of healing is like the ranger of healing. It's a jack of all trades, but never excells at anything ( don't be angry about the ranger part )

In a spike, there's a better heal (infuse health ). For energy management, there's a better heal (...) . For a big heal, there's a better heal( Dwayna's Kiss, Heal Other . Orison is something you take because it'll fit all categories, but it'll be less effective.

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

08 Dec 2006 at 15:00 - 7

I like Orison of Healing. It heals, fast cast, fast recharge. On its own, its not very useful. With Divine Favor, it heals quite well.

I used to use Healing Breeze, that was until I read why it wasn't very good. The cost, the shattering, the requirements to make it heal well, etc.

Boon Protect and Bonders rely on Protection spells rather than healing (makes sense right?)

People say Boon Protects heal more than actual healers, because there is less damage to heal, thus you most likely won't see people asking for healing. Protection spells are for negating damage, rather than healing over damage.

You really don't want to bond or protect when you are in areas where enchantment removals are in abundance.

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

08 Dec 2006 at 15:08 - 8

I detest Orison of Healing. Its a pathetic heal. I know its only 5 energy, quick recharge and casting time but its weak and isn't a substantial healing skill for a monk. When the average monster from the Desolation onwards does 150dmg+ per hit, it makes Orison virtually redundant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Why use Orison when you can use Gift of Health and go Protection? QFT.

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

08 Dec 2006 at 15:30 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Boon Protect and Bonders rely on Protection spells rather than healing (makes sense right?)

People say Boon Protects heal more than actual healers, because there is less damage to heal, thus you most likely won't see people asking for healing. Protection spells are for negating damage, rather than healing over damage. I think this is quite possibly the word which is throwing me..."Boon". What does it mean? Where did it come from?

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

08 Dec 2006 at 15:34 - 10

Boon -A term generally meaning "benefit" or "boost."

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boon

Boon in gw build sense being named after the skills that use the words boon, eg: healers boon, Divine boon

Healbreeze while not the best skill available has its uses like all skills, its a good way of countering degen or to help heal on someone while ur using larger heals on other party members.

As for orison, its the meat and pototoes of the monk along with reversal, yes there are better skills, but when it does its job nicly and fits into most heal builds and isnt conditional, it makes up for its lack of large heal amounts

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

08 Dec 2006 at 15:39 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Boon in gw build sense being named after the skills that use the words boon, eg: healers boon, Divine boon ooook, kinda with you now.

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

08 Dec 2006 at 15:56 - 12

Meh, for PvE, Orison is generally fine, although there are usually better alternatives in terms of amount healed per energy spent. Healing breeze is doesn't provide much healing per energy cost either. I don't think it's really that bad of a skill for a PvE healer, but 9 times out of 10 it's just spammed at the wrong time. The advantage it has is that it can be a passive heal to hold over one teammate taking damage to a certain degree while you heal other allies. With this said, I would still argue that it is best for low to mid level areas in PvE.

Protection can be very powerful if for nothing else, then the ability to use skills like Protective Spirit. It doesn't matter how much your healing skills can do or how fast they recharge if your ally gets hit with a spike of lethal damage before you can cast anything. It does take a bit of skill to use many protections skills wisely however. You will generally want to watch your enemies and anticipate when an ally will suffer a spike of damage. This requires keeping your eyes on the battlefield as well as on the red health bars.

GoH on a prot build can make a good balanced monk, but I do see times when a full heal monk can still be worth it's merit. However, in general, when playing in areas that have strong enemies or in PvE, you are probably best off using a prot build that has some healing ability to it (i.e. Blessed Light or Zealous Benediction).

It kind of comes to a balance. A prot monk can still have a limit as to how much they can actually heal damaged allies, even after damage has been reduced, but having a defense that is based solely on recompensating for lost health rather than reducing damage taken will stretch a healing monk too thin. A good balance of health regen and damage reduction from the monk backline is the key to a solid defense imho.

Cartoonhero

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sooner Nation

Mo/

08 Dec 2006 at 15:59 - 13

i hate running heal, i'd rather run prot w/ gift of health in almost any situation. the only time ill run heal is if i use a healers boon build(healers boonis a new nf elite0. but as many said the original 'boon protector'(that used the divine favor based skill divine boon) got a nerf awhile back, so people run regular prot now. good skills to consider include:

sheild of absorption
spirit bond
reversal of fortune
gift of health(healing spell, works best on a prot bar cause it disables healing spells, usually arond 9 in heal on a prot build for this)
protective spirit
dismiss condition
signet of devotion(divine favor based,free heal, use it whenever you can!)
divert hexes[E]-awesome prot spell in hex heavy areas, as it takes off conditions too, and heals..all conditional on if there are hexes though, useless without hexes.
Restore Condition[E]-as is probably apparent, awesome for condition heavy areas, bring mending touch for yourself, as its target other ally.
blessed light[E]-good choice in most areas.
Zealous benediction[E]- if you can get consistent at healing at or below that 50 mark, its a free 10e heal.

i love prot builds like this because you can negate large amounts of damage instead of trying to power heal through all the damage.

dont forget how much a secondary can help out, check out what secondaries other monks use, i personally use /me or /a alot latley.

oh and yes, i've never really seen much hate for orison, whenever i do run a heal build, its in there...especially now with healers boon. healing breeze is just ick in most situations though.

ubard

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Canada, Ottawa

Mo/

08 Dec 2006 at 16:01 - 14

before factions, the boon prot was THE gvg monk. During factions, many used both Blessed light and Boonprot. Now with the release of even more nice protection spells. (the booner uses elite emangement), and the nerf of inspiration magic, the boon prot has all but dissapeared.

Divine Favor: 11+1+(whatever rune)
Prot: 10+1
Inspiration Magic: 10

Reversal of Fortune
Shield of Absorption
Protective Spirit
Signet of Devotion
Dismiss Condition / Mend Condition / Mend Ailment
Inspired Hex / Holy Veil
Energy Drain [E] / Mantra of Recall
Divine Boon

This is what the booner would be to me now. The original boon prot used the skill Offering of Blood as energy management.

Many like Contemplation of Purity, worth checking out.

This build still does work in RA, it's just nothing on a ZB protector.

Effigy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Illinois, US

Heroes of Talia [HoT]

Mo/

08 Dec 2006 at 18:34 - 15

Like others have said, Orison and Breeze just aren't very efficient. Orison isn't as bad as Breeze, but there isn't much reason to be using either of them beyond the early stages of the game. I think GoH+prot is generally the most effective combo, but even if you want to play a pure healer there are better skills out there: Whisper, Ethereal Light, Dwayna's Kiss, Signet of Rejuvenation, Signet of Devotion, etc.

Heal Other is another bad skill. It's about on par with Orison, only with doubled the cost and roughly doubled the healing output. However, it only gains the DF bonus heal once as opposed to just casting two 5e heals, making it even worse.

Celain

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

08 Dec 2006 at 20:06 - 16

Orison made a healers skill bar simply for the fact that it could be used on yourself. Between it and Healing Touch, you had decent self healing. This may not be the case now; I haven't really played my monk much since Prophecies.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

09 Dec 2006 at 00:30 - 17

I still say that orisons is still a good spell at healing and I use it on my healing build all the time and regardles of what other ppl say in groups it will be awhile untill they can get another Monk agian.I got mine in pre and I am not about to buy a skill I really don't need sure Other and GoH is great but they are for alley not target meaning yourself.That is what I like about Orisons when it come to breeze it a decent self heal untill you get touch.

There is still nothing wrong with boon/protects in pve and there isn't the type of spike damege that there is in pvp.Boon/Protect is a special build.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

09 Dec 2006 at 01:37 - 18

Orison is the least efficient heal you can put on your bar, and there's nothing you can do with it to make it more efficient. It's also the slowest heal you can use. The low recharge is fool's gold - the more energy you pump into Orison of Healing, the weaker and less efficient your character becomes.

The only time Orison is ok is in situations where the skill that you use to heal is largely irrelevant. That is, low pressure, no spike, just topping off bars as they go down. In those situations, any moron can push the Orison button over again to top off bars. But, as I said, you can use any combination of skills to do that same job, skills that will perform better or serve critical purposes in situations of stress.

As you get better at playing a healing Monk (or at playing Monk in general) you will find yourself casting Orison less and less, making use of more efficient heals situationally, and eventually noticing that the topping off bars function of Orison is pointless. Eventually you stop using Orison entirely, or having it sit there only as a reserve in case everything else is stuck recharging. In Ch1 only, Orison was at least minimally useful for that...with two more chapters in the mix, there's no reason to ever run Orison on a serious bar.

Healing Breeze gets a bad (but deserved) rep for how easy it is to overheal with it. It becomes even worse when playing with Orison Monks who insist on topping off every bar, even when there's a Breeze up. Unfortunately the skill isn't very efficient even if it does heal for full every time. There's really no reason to ever run it on a Monk primary...you'll see it used in GvG for split situations on an E/Mo, where damage and healing are much more controlled (meaning it will heal for full every time) and, realistically, there aren't any better options.

But, straight up, Orison is a well-deserved bad player detector. If you see a Monk using Orison you know you're in for a rough ride if the party ever starts taking meaningful amounts of damage.

Peace,
-CxE

pingu666

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

guildhall

[DETH]

09 Dec 2006 at 03:18 - 19

i use orison because its a jack of all trades, its the benchmark heal skill really, most other skills that are "better" have downsides, (easily interuptable, target other etc..

the spell which would replace orison for me, is words of comfort, maybe etheral light too, being easily interuptable means any hit will interupt u, which is bad :/

healing breeze heals over time, can target anyone, downside is its a enchantment (which might also be good sometimes). its a nice cover heal, it someone is taking some damage, but not huge amounts, cast it on them and itll cover them nicely, or if res someone in a dicey area, u can cast it on yourself, res them, and cast it on them..., mitigating you from some damage..

i can see why some dont like it, but also why some really like it, it has its uses..

on my monk i use the 2 healing sigs, orison, heal party, blessed light, healing breeze and res chant. one free slot

currently using revealed hex or whatever, mesmer skill

14 (or 16) on healing
13 on divine

i think pvp is different, more favourable of conditional stuff, ive been critised by a pvp player for not healing her enough, while they played there fire ele as a frontline fighter, about 70% of my healing went on her, as fast as i could cast. i think only sup runes or infuse health 2-3 times would of healed for more. maybe some enchanment which boosts healing perhaps (divine boon)

Amok Affinity

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

[XoO]

09 Dec 2006 at 04:54 - 20

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

09 Dec 2006 at 05:05 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

i think pvp is different, more favourable of conditional stuff, ive been critised by a pvp player for not healing her enough, while they played there fire ele as a frontline fighter, about 70% of my healing went on her, as fast as i could cast. i think only sup runes or infuse health 2-3 times would of healed for more. maybe some enchanment which boosts healing perhaps (divine boon) I have no idea what you are talking about.

martialis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

RA, reporting you

09 Dec 2006 at 06:45 - 22

If you want to mix healing and protection, guardian and protective spirit are typical spells. The boon/prot is just a different kind of healer, and the one on guildwiki is okay. What don't you understand about it?

The biggest disadvantage to prot is that you don't have Light of Deliverance or heal party, and no points to put in healing to use them.

random.name

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

South Africa

09 Dec 2006 at 07:22 - 23

Depending on the area/mission I run the following build:

1. Signet of Rejuvenation -- This is a great conditional heal with a long range for the tanks. Downside is the long recharge and its useless as a self heal.

2. Jamei's Gaze -- High energy cost (10), but a very good heal for a party member eating a spike. Downside is that it is easy to overheal with this.

3. Healing Whisper -- Used on party members around me. Dangerous to use on the tanks due to the short range, but can be used in a emergency.

4. Orison -- Self Heal. Also used if someone is taking non-threatening pressure.

kosh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

hydrponic agriculture society [Herb]

Mo/

09 Dec 2006 at 07:58 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amok Affinity

orison is crap, crap crap crap. learned that quick dragging my poor, tattered monk across all creation.

but it wouldn't be very nice to dismiss a skill without offering an equivalent/replacement, so here's something you can even treat it almost exactly like orison!:

reversal of fortune! yes damnit, yes! spec some out of DF or HP or whatever (you dont need a ton of df anyhow, 'round 10 is sweetness imho) and throw it into prot if you arent specced for prot anyhoo. if you can wedge it up to a 50ish negation youve got what, 2 orisons? worth of mitigation in one spammable 5e spell.

other goodies:
dwayna's kiss! - Huge cheap conditional heal. beautiful.

healing whisper - for your caster buddies sitting beside you when theyre getting spiked down by pesky ranger mobs or somesuch i guess

signet of rejuvenation - no one likes this thing for some reason! but then again straight hp isnt very popular so meh. i like to use it, if im running LoD or something, to heal mm's after saccing and during animations since those take a damn year to get off as well as the ocassional ailing absurdly-long-cast-time ele. good on melee as youll nearly always meet the condition for the attractive portion of the sig

quick edit: before bashing LoD, check out its freaking range. you can heal the entire area of the radar with that bastard ok,rof VS orison, can someone say "life steal"...

kiss and whisper= good but u got no self heal.

but 1st thing 1st. as a monk you want to decide whice att line you tend to like/be good at,i found that mix&match monk such half bar prot half bar heal is bit all over the place. at the end of the day it all depend on the environment you are heading, as prot in pvp ( lets say HA vs b spike), useless.. just kiting around and RC once in a while. prot consider somtimes better for people becouse it heal and prot at the same time (at least use to be with boon before the update), prot prevent damage from affecting, but again depende whice. back to the point, breeze at 9 heal will give you 180 heal, so 90 for 5 energy.. thats not to bad... prob with that 1st of all its Enchantment Spell= cne be removed, also as other pointed out thre is a tendency to sometimes over heal with that. breeze got its places to be used (mainly pve) as for orison.. great skill fpr pve, cheap,self heal. again all depend.. if your doing a 8/8 mission and 2 monks and your the heal monk... u need to think about self heal...myself perfer touch for that.
in the end this 2 skills for pve are not hate as i see it.. but you can find better ones (still breeze saved a lot of pips i knoe thorugh alot of risky areas)
as for pvp=in one word=no.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

09 Dec 2006 at 22:44 - 25

We aren't talking about PvP here we are talking about PvE and all the skills that were mentioned that are in Factions I don't think i saw any NF skills you have to buy them.Who really wants to buy them when you have something just as good and not everyone has Factions and NF and RoF is nice to negate the damage ad sometimes provide a small heal but that is for protect not healing we are talking about healing and in heavy hex area it is only healing that can keep you alive.There really is nothing in protection to do this sure there are some but not like healing.when useing Orisons there is a Devine Favour bonus added to it runes or not and what was your main heal when you got to post and made it to LA and even Amnoon.

Rera

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

10 Dec 2006 at 01:05 - 26

Did you people even read Ensign's post?

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

10 Dec 2006 at 04:13 - 27

Yeah I read Ensigns post and agree with most of his points.

Effigy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Illinois, US

Heroes of Talia [HoT]

Mo/

10 Dec 2006 at 15:25 - 28

Let's compare Orison to Reversal of Fortune in terms of efficiency. Both are 5 energy cost with 2 second recharge and self-targettable. However, RoF has a 1/4 sec cast time compared to Orison's 1 sec--already a point in RoF's favor. Now let's look at their effects. Assuming 14 in Healing or Prot, respectively:

Orison heals for 67hp, regardless of the situation. Also note that this healing takes place after the damage is dealt. If the target was very low on health, he may have already died before Orison could get to him.

RoF will prevent up to 76 damage from a single source, as well as healing for the same amount of damage as was prevented. Under ideal conditions (meaning the target took 76+ damage from a single source while enchanted with RoF), this will result in a net "healing" of 152hp, because RoF will stop some damage as well as healing damage already taken from other sources. Unlike Orison, RoF prevents damage before it happens and can thus keep a target from dying. The downside, of course, is that the efficiency of RoF is dependent on the amount of damage taken from that one source. However, the target would only need to take 34 damage from one source in order for RoF to exceed the efficiency of Orison. RoF, as an enchantment, also has the advantage of providing energy to the target if it is a Dervish; on the other hand, it is also subject to some types of enchantment hate, like Well of the Profane. Since its duration is short, removal is not much of an issue.

As you can see, RoF exceeds Orison's efficiency and utility in most situations. This also gives you a brief (though not complete) synopsis of Healing Prayers and Protection Prayers in general. It shouldn't be hard to understand why I prefer prot, given the above comparison. The main point, though, is that Orison is just not a very powerful skill. You could match its efficiency in most situations by using RoF at 4 Prot. Avoid using Orison unless you really don't have any other decent alternatives.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

10 Dec 2006 at 21:31 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by martialis

The biggest disadvantage to prot is that you don't have Light of Deliverance or heal party, and no points to put in healing to use them.

The only Protection skill that really wants you to spec to 14 or higher is Zealous Benediction. Shield of Absorption is nice at 14 for the 7th second, but the skill is still very good at 10 spec. Protective Spirit is solid at 8 spec, the Mends start being great around there, RoF is solid at even a minimal spec and keeps getting better.

Saying you don't have the points for those skills doesn't make any sense, Monks dip into Healing all the time just for Gift of Health. There's nothing stopping you from tri-speccing. The cost of using non-Gift of Health Healing Prayers isn't the points, in my experience, but the poor synergy with the otherwise money Gift of Health.

I've seen tri-spec bars for DoA with Light of Deliverance and Dwayna's Kiss on what is otherwise a Prot bar, it's a bit more specialized than a Gift guy but it was strong for the job in question. There's honestly nothing stopping you from running 13-14 Healing Prayers even on a guy with mostly Protection skills, except your own hangups about how you spend your attribute points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

i think pvp is different, more favourable of conditional stuff Not at all. The difference is that PvP punishes bad build designs, and the more competitive an environment is the harsher the punishment. The punishment, of course, being failure, usually the repeat variety accompanied by gloating in all-chat.

Most of the PvE in Guild Wars is easy enough that a moron spamming Orison of Healing and Healing Breeze will be reasonably successful, particularly with the way PUGs design their teams (with multiple Monks doing that). There's no punishment for bad build design or for sloppy play, if you don't do anything mind-bogglingly stupid and push the keys you succeed and get a cookie. That does not make either you or your bar good. You need a harsh environment to make you really look critically at the holes in your build and play - DoA is good for that to an extent. Just try running Orison and Breeze there and tell me that they're good skills - and before you complain about build composition, know that I do those zones with two hero Monks.

Good PvP builds are very often solid starting points for PvE builds - they've gone through the rigors of having to find the most efficient skills possible for their jobs, and the nature of balance in this game is that the strongest skills tend to carry over across formats. Certainly, the best versions of different characters will vary from format to format, and there are specialized characters for each - there's no need for a base ganking Assassin in PvE, or an Obsidian Flesh tank in PvP - but if you're looking for a strong general bar, you're better off seeing what top guilds are running on observer mode than listening to forum morons talk about how they like Orison and Breeze.

Peace,
-CxE

sage tank

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/Mo

11 Dec 2006 at 15:30 - 30

I personally have never used orison when I monk, I usually only take 2 direct healing and leave other to condition removal or hex counter or enchantments for protection,

imo Dwayne's Kiss is much better because I always do a protection/ heal combo

like doing shield of absorption and then dwayenas, so that guy gets healed and protected for few seconds, and in hex heavy area dwayne's kiss can go beserk as I have seen 400+ heals,

for self heal take healing touch, there is a reason that it has longer recharge and shorter range.

LouAl

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

12 Dec 2006 at 00:02 - 31

the original question has been answered and ignored many times in this thread, but here it is again:

Both spells are great when there is not a lot of pressure on the team. When there is a lot of pressure (damage) on the team, you will need something that heals for more and faster. So, my thought is: If you are bringing a healing spell that works great when the team is not taking damage, why are you playing monk? As a monk, you need to make sure your team survives heavy damage as it happens, and Orison and HB cannot do that as well as other spells (healing and prot).

Orison sucks - It is basic. It doesn't heal for very much but can be used over and over and over. So, the reason why it sucks is that there are other heals that have conditional aspects to them, and Anet has decided that, in order to maintain balance, a spell that will do nothing sometimes should be more powerful at other times. So, a spell like Dwayna's Kiss (one of my favorites) will do nothing if you target yourself, but if you target an ally with a stack of hexes/enchants it is amazingly powerful.

Healing Breeze sucks - Again, it is basic. It heals moderately well over time, but when is that ever useful? I have heard people say that they use it to "top people off" but it is a very expensive way to top off someone's health. I would say that the fact that it can get shattered is hardly an issue, but the fact that it is usually eiter much too slow to keep someone alive or that most of the healing gets wasted when it is used on someone with too much health (over-healing is an issue with all heal spells, but is less of an issue when the spell used only costs 5 e instead of 10e).

Now for the reason for all that hate...

Why do most people use Orison and HB? My experience is that they have yet to find a better spell to use. What this usually tells me is that they are either very low level or have not taken the time to understand why other spells are better. If they are just too lazy to find something that works better, then I don't want them on my team.

It is the same issue to me as when group leaders want 3 monks on a team. All it really does is create redundant healing/proting that largely goes to waste.

So, if you want to replace them with better healing spells (that is, if you want stay away from protection and remain a healer) here are some suggestions

@ 16 healing
Healing Breeze: 18 health per second for 10 seconds for a total of 180 health for 10 energy which is 18 hlth per energy

replace it with

Vigorous Spirit: 12-16 health per scond for 30 seconds for a total of 360-473 health for 5 energy which is 72-95 health per energy (assumes VS triggers once every 1.33-1.75 seconds)

or replace it with healing seed or any non-enchant healing spell

Orison: 24 health per second (1 sec cast 2 sec recharge) for a total of 73 health for 5 energy which is 15 hlth per energy

replace it with

Dwayna's Kiss: No enchants/hexes 16 health per second (1 sec cast 3 sec recharge) for a total of 63 health for 5 energy which is 13 health per energy
1 enchant/hex 25 health per second for a total of 100 health which is 20 hlth per energy
2 enchants/hexes 34 health per second for a total of 137 health which is 27 hlth per energy
3 enchants/hexes 44 health per second for a total of 174 health which is 35 hlth per energy
4 enchants...

Ehtereal Light 18 health per second (1 c 5r) for a total of 105 health for 5 energy which is 21 hlth per energy (just don't be attacked when casting it)

Healing Whisper 52 health per second (1 c 1r) for a total of 104 health for 5 energy which is 21 hlth per energy

Sig of Rejuv (assuming target is attacking or casting) 13 health per second for a total of 143 health for 0 energy

there are just a few examples without even leaving the healing prayers attribute. If you want to expand into prot I think that Effigy had a good comparison between orison and RoF and Ensign made some good points about not limiting yourself to 2 attribute lines...