Things missing from existing professions

I like the idea actionjack, It's possibly the only real way to implement forsed attack into pvp.
However you could abuse the heck out of it, if an effect is powerfull enough to make someone need to attack then it would also be powerfull enough to make them lose a batle if you prevent them from attacking that person(both in PvE and PvP, imagine shiro or the lich king with that much energy degen chained by 4 party members to keep it active while the others recharge).

Also if it ends on 1 hit then a dervish would be good as unafected by it as they hit lots of foes at the same time, or you could hit the caster just once and then go back to your previous target, this would not really hinder people that much exept assasins or axe wariors as they have many conditional attacks so they have to stick to a sertain order in wich their attacks are executed(not all assassins and axe wariors though, there are ways to get around it, but eviscerate axe wariors generally all suffer from it I guess)
Adding the requirement to keep attacking for the duration(or until caster dies) would be more effective as it afects all professions somewhere evenly. But couple this with spitefull spirit and you have another way to abuse the heck out of it.

I don't think you could ever force a player to do something and not have it unbalance either PvP or PvE, but that is really up to Anet.

I shouldn't just dispute, its bad maners to refuse somone's solution and not offer an alternative.

Protection monks can already chanel damge dealth to target ally to themselves, I think this could be taken to a new level.
Stiking at Soulshex
The next X attacks of target foe damage you instead of their intended target, up to a maximum of X damage.

Threterous Windshex
For X seconds projectiles from target foe strike you instead fo their intended target, you have an extra X AL against damage recieved this way.

Also I guess I could steal the way this is handeled in AO, if you want to be targeted there you make yourself more dangerous, by using a mongo or a other significant damage increaser like fullauto.
For a short time you become a priorety target to mobs or enemy players because you need to be debuffed as fast as possible, sadly even though this works wonderfully in PvE it has a little less effect in PvP,
That is because running away from a mongo'ing enfo untill they stop,
or dodging during a fullauto will have the same effect.

Aditionally to this(and this is on support to your movement controll) enfo's grow larger while mongo'ing, asside from a visual effect this makes it easier to click them.
When a agent uses a hiding buff he also shrinks making him harder to click.

While those size effects can be simpely overcome by players using autoselect(not GW) or tab selecting, in GW you can't walk trough other players this means a player increased in sise would be able to block pathing more eficiently, and a smaller one could just pass though someones legs.

In ao this effect is quite extreme, enfos can grow over 2 stories tall and agents can become the size of a chiwawa, that would be greatly over the top in GW and 50% size increase would definatly make a large diference.

A quick resum:

• I think forcing a player to do whatever would be unbalancing.(restricting cetain actions is diferent though)
• Though you shouldent force a player to attack you; making them damage you is ok,
  as this requires no action on their part, therefor I opt for a damage redirection heavy profession.
• Making a profession that shows when it is about to become more dangerous to you, makes you want to attack it before it can do so, this could be coupled with size increses but does not really need to.
• I like the Movement controll actionjack sugested.

Forced attacks are unbalanced. Consider all the abilities in the game which drasticly punish enemies for executing certain actions, the effect of the hex or enchantment causes unnattentive players to suffer significant, almost damning consequences, or and even attentive players have to choose between taking serious reprocusions or being disabled/diswaded. With Manipulation of enemy actions, you can force a foe to strike you wile you have Shield of Judgement on, or force a foe to attack wile cursed with Spiteful Spirit, easily overpowering your foes.

But that isn't half the difficulty. This is a Strategy game, above all else, strategy is the deciding factor of the game. This game revolves around player skill, their skill in selecting builds, coordinating with allies, playing effectively in one word, choice. With manipulation spells that remove control from foes, particularly human controled foes, you essentially take away the single most important factor from your foe, control. And this is unacceptable, because if a player cannot control his character, he isn't actually playing. To go into battle and be force to attack certain foes who would obviously be primed to overcome damage or punish their assault, you basicly hand over the game to build instead of actual combat control, it simply isn't acceptable.

You can snare a foe, stop him cold, disable his abilities, punish his actions, interrupt his spells, steal his source of power (energy, adrenaline, otherwise), and a great deal of variety to sabotoge your enemy, all of these disable your foe, but when you take away control, you basicly remove them from the game, and they are just watching their character be subjected to whatever the enemy decides they will do.

Controlling another player, whether it be foe or allie, is unacceptable.

*cough cough wards cough*

Some reply....

I think we can all agree that forcing player's movement or control is a bad bad thing. Thus the suggestion is to lure them to do an action, but not force them.

In term of movement control, rather, its control the enviroment or landscape to effect their movement, and not take the control fully away from them. Creating a tempoary wall would be something of that group.

A ward, as well as other cripple-speed effect skills, are part of it. But there are still things such thing can not do, such as making the foe group togeter (with restrictive movements) so an AoE might do its best impact, or force them away from a soft target, etc. Wards could also use some expansion too (and there were few good suggested one that take a greater emphesis on wards/runes/aura/tombstone mechanics)

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On another note.... the recent trend seem to suggest two popular classes... A Fist Fighter, and a Remote Controler (controling a Golem or Puppet). Anyone have good function, playing mechanic, or playing style, for them?

Puppetmaster:

You have to also take in mind the lagginess of how a controller/puppet thing would be. Imagine how much power and how complex it would be to control your character as well as a foe. That is way out of league
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Fist Fighter:

I thought of this but then I have to cross it off the list. We already have daggers. We would have to make gloves (which would probably be the weapon) less damage than daggers. That makes them very weak. It would hard to implement on this withough taking the ideas of a warrior or assassin. This is out.
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Other:

On every expansion so far we have had ideas from core classes that was only used a little, and tweaked. Ex. Shouts, Enchantments, Spirits, ect. They are going to use (most likley) something that is only used a little, like Wards, Inscriptions (runes),Auras, and maybe even more summoning, and or forms, from the dervish.
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Things that are not on any proffession at all:

If A-Net becomes more creative I bet they can pull of something that is not implemented from other classes. Maybe, just maybe, they can use a class that manipulats sun and moon. (that is an idea from other people) Maybe they can use something that summons forms of other things. (Druids, ect.)
Maybe, they can use new weapons like, quarterstaff, instruments, mace, ect. Then instead of combos they can tweak in stuff like summoning elemental things. (ex. walls, mud) I am sure they will figure out something new.

I think the entire idea of a puppet master is bogus, a lesser idea than a summoner, and no reason to go with a lesser idea.

As for actual familiar movement and control, it would have to be limited, but as we can already direct up to 3 henchmen as well as our own character, it is hardly unavailable.

Notably, there are some techniques on expansion classes which are adaptations of exsisting mechanics, obviously they arn't going to make a class which has nothing but totally original features, but at the same time, they all offer some totally unique abilities and techniques, this is an acceptable balance of exsisting effects, redeveloped effects, and original effects, it isn't a limited to the scope of certain abilities.

As for the whole bit about controling, there is an obvious difference between obstructing, disabling, and controling, they have very unique meanings, and used improperly, they describe improperly.

Wards and Crippling do not control anyone, they are movement obstructions which block and hinder foes. Likewise, there are no hexes which force you to take a certain action, and no effects either, they all punish you for certain actions, or disable the use of certain actions, they do not control your character. The language is defined so people can communicate their thoughts accurately and others will recognize what they mean, improper use is the failure of the user, not the receiver.

Take the time to accurately describe your ideas, don't waste time trying to debate the correction of your flaws.

I just wanted to add something on the pathing obstruction, in Prophesies in the jungle there is a mb called entangleing roots.

These create walls at pre-scripted locations, when a player crosses those locations.(i.e 1 of the party gets in; wall closes rest of party is behind wall)
As soon as you kill the mob the wal disapears, the wall only blocks pathing you can still shoot arrows/staffs and cast spells through it.

The roots are not even a nucance(unbalancing mobs generally are) the only problem with implementing a wall skill is that scripts decide the place and angle of the wall, all effects in GW have a target or a round area of effect, a wall or pathing obstruction would likely need to be a line like form, otherwise it might couse signifigant problems. The deciding of an angle is not something GW gameplay mechanics are used for.
I though of 2 ways to solve that problem.
The game can calculate a path between 2 points having a skill that drops a beacon like thing that stays for X seconds, if you drop anotherone in the area a wall forms beween the 2 points.
And a circular wall could be placed around one's self by an area effect, trapping as may foes as possible in a ring with you as possible, if time runs out or if you doe the wall disipates again.
That way you put yourself at risk to trap your foes in a pen.

I don't thing there should be a skill that puts a wall around target foe, that would mean trapping him wiht a single skill, you eather should have yourself at risk or have to heavly cordinate with other party members to trap your foes.

This would allow much greater use fo the archidecture of the ighting areas, and because you should not be able to maintain a wall infinatly and because many spells are unhampered by blocked pathing, the palyers amking the walls would still be plenty killable.

Mmh, even a temporary block is very powerful. Imagine the ganking possibilities if 2 druids could pin an entire team into a passage for 30 or more seconds. The big difference from snares such as Deep Freeze s that you don't have to be vulnerable to use it, and it COMPLETELY stops them, as opposed to just snaring. Movement speed has a floor of 33% for a pretty darn good gameplay reason. Perhaps attackable walls would be non-unbalanced.

I'll go through and extract ideas for the list that have cropped up since my last update at some time when it isn't ten to midnight local, but people seem to have moved towards discussing a couple of specific class concepts, which is something I was trying to avoid in this thread. Could you move this discussion to a new thread please?

wow, it's hard to think of something new wile looking at all these ideas, I guess the easiest way to come up with another unique ability is to think of an identity I like and come up with an original way for it to work.

I have to say, I am rather satisfied with this thread, I don't think I will ever have to hear, "there arn't any new features to add to the game", ever again. And if I do, I will give them this link.

I am not sure if this is a good place to put this and I haven't seen it anywhere...LOL, but then of course I did miss the search bar the other day.

I think that Necros need the ability to rez fallen party members NOT a rez sig or a secondary profession skill. Being masters of death, maybe have the rez bring fallen party member back up with a health degen (that a monk touch could fix) like minions. In essense a rez with a residual hex lingering.

Updated.

Tempy: It has come up before (in fact, I think I've even raised it myself) but I'll put it in for completeness.

As a general note, there is a skill each that acts as a hard restriction to movement (Scorpion Wire, which triggers if the victim is seperated from the caster by more than a certain amount) and one that acts as a lure (Tease). This isn't a challenge, for the record, just a comment - both aspects could certainly stand to be expanded .

dont know if this is wut uoy were looking for but i posted a concept build of a sub class warrior who uses spikes on his armor and rushes through the enemy. i got this idea from the gutbusters from a book i read by r.a. salvatore

Placing semi permanent environmental effects (not using a spirit). Such as icy terrain and other ground types.

I don't see how environmental effects are different than DoT spells or Wards, you should be more specific.

I think what I am going for is changing the terrain perminately (until zone) to one of the many terrain types that occur through out the game. Lava (from ring of fire), jade shards (luxon areas), icy (shiverpeaks), the tar (post searing). It may be to similar to wards and spirits and could be folded in, but I would like them to be more persistant.

How about enemy-targeting but not damage-causing effects with larger than normal effect range? We can heal and enchant the party from 100 feet away, but we can't cast a weak snare or somesuch?

Oh, and minions that don't need corpses and aren't stationary. I'd say golems, but then people would think of the junky "hey, let's make one warrior with bad AI to be on your team!"

Ooh, terrain effects. That's pretty sweet.

Spirits provide long range effects, and binding rituals can provide long range determental effects. The idea of actually creating extreme terrain, and most actual environment terrains hazards are extreme, it would require something like immobilizing and maintaining a location with your actual character. Beside that, Wards and spirits are the balanced option, with less effect and less duration reasonable to the cost.

I kind of hoped Maintained DoT and Ward effects would be added to Elementist, since current DoT spells blow and they could use some diversity, but I think it should be focal to a new class. That is why I developed barrier abilities when I made Stalker, for wide ranged offensive and defensive environment manipulation which must be maintained by a character rather than a spirit.

An idea on Terrain changer.

I think it might be intersting to have a "spread out" effect. So unlike the Wards or spirit, where it effect all of its effect-range after cast, could have the terrain spread slowly in a outward circle, with the caster at the center, and would take 5-10 seconds befoe it fully cover the range of its effect. The caster would be count as casting in that time, and if interupted or move, than its spread would be smaller.

Things like

Lava Ground
10e / 1s cast / 45s recharge
Continue cast up to 8 seconds (to reach a max effect range of X feet), and cover ground in lava for the next 10...34 seconds.

Vine of Thorn
10e / 1s cast / 30s recharge
Continue cast up to 8 seconds (to reach a max effect range of X feet), and cover ground in vines of thorn that caus cripple to all foe in effect, last for the next 8...20 seconds.

could go for a geomancer or as an attribute line for Druid-type.

Sorry I haven't updated in a while - blame my efforts at collecting as much treasure as possible before it (possibly) goes away. And the heket. The heket needed to die.

chaoticmadness: That's not what I was looking for, no. I believe there is a sticky thread listing concept classes on the forum you might want to see about getting your concept added to if you haven't already, though.

Nevertheless, I've added you to the index as a supporting voice for the general grappler idea.

things which are missing:

Line of Sight projectile spawning particle damage, IE: it will lay down the effect in a line to the target thus, making it more effective at longer range. IE: Different form of AoE

Player position based effect spawn: eg: for the next X seconds, every second the ground adjacent to you freezes for 3 seconds, icey ground slows enermy moment by 50%

the effect can be even a buff for your team, ie: lets say to have a skill which makes you lay down a local effect to make you and your team ran faster, but only in that space, thus more like a road/channel

Forced enermy moment: ie swap location with enermy. or
zombify! : 15, 1, 30
While hexed with Zombify for the next 5 seconds targets enermy moves with 50% speed to towards your direction unless they are performing a skill. zombify ends if you move.

Spell distance variation
Glyph of Vision: your next spell has 1.5 range
5,1,30

I'm am going to try to create a proffession but i've tried coming up with a terrain manipulation proffession using wards but everyone was like "no it has a spell with fire and water, its an ele" so...yea

I do believe line effects have been mentioned.

Wards are terrain manipulation, that isn't a new type of ability, it is an idea for an old one. So make another thread about skill developement instead of processing redevelopment in an original ability thread.

The idea of a PBeffect isn't new either, see Balthazars Aura. Just because there hasn't been much elaboration on certain skill types doesn't mean that they are new ones.

And I thought I pointed out the hazard of skills which manipulate your opponents actions, also including moving them. Best example of this ability is the boss in Prophecies, giving this kind of power to a player in PvP is broken.

If you read what was already developed beforehand you might be able to contribute something useful.

Now ActionJacks idea is much more feasible. A gradual Terrain change which can be shortened any time during casting with an interrupt. But as it is much more potent than a ward, and could cause extreme advantages if unremovable, it should probably be double edged, so allies would be effected and harmed by the effect.

but that would be like Rangers spirits (ex. mudder terrain)

Providing a slight advantage or disadvantage to a large area with a spirit is not the same thing as providing a terrain snare which spreads from your location gradually. It is a gradual spread from a characters location, it cannot be broken by killing a spirit, and it creates a obviously more determental effect than a spirit. It is like a Ward and a ranger spirit put together with some additional original material. Perspective.

Updated. Reading between the lines, it looks like BK's essentially removed his objection to terrain manipulation, albeit in favour of actionjack's form rather than the original, so I've removed his objection from the list.

As a comment, forced enemy movement does have problems in that it can essentially turn the player subjected into a spectator. There are also ways in which it can be made VERY powerful - for instance, dropping the target into a pile of traps, or drawing them through a line of traps, DOT effects, and other assorted nastiness. Most disabling skills do do this to an extent, but at least these just stop a player from doing what they want to do rather than force them to do something they don't.

'Course, it could still work... but it would have to be carefully balanced.

I would like to add annother version of(angle to)
Spells with conditional effects based on caster (Gordon Ecker, post 34; Crom the Pale, post 35; System Crush, Post 67)
I was hoping for an own entry, but this will work too if people read the related post.

namely:
Charging self with an effect and releasing the effect

I would like to see charging effects that charge the caster with something, and are then released using another spell/skill.
Say you charge yourself with ethernal flame, when you release this affect with a skill that a targets an ally that ally gets aditonal ice resistance or deoes extra fire damage.
Release it on a foe then that foe starts burning.

Its like a glyph that works only for a spell that does nothing making it do something.


and:
Charging self with an effect that is added to the next spell cast

On the other hand you could have the charge spells charge you and accompany/overwrite the effect of your next spell you cast, that is sort of in support of the effect mentioned by Gordon but I am going for an effect that adds in aditonal, like casting a spell but the effect is delayed untill you cast your next spell.
Not only will that improve timing of spells cast but if you fist cas rotghosts flame on a foe(yes I know I misspelled it) which since the second last patch affect all foes in the area right? then charge yourself with burning gaze and then cast fire storm.
I know that using elementalist abiletys its way overpowered ad we can be gald burning gaze is not a charging effect.
But each foe hit by fire storm starts bruning and is kept burnign by the damage per second, each time firestorm hits a foe its charged with burning gaze, if that foe is buring it take sdamge and you gain energy.
This stacks for as long as fire stom lasts causing huge amounts of damage and fully regenrating your energy.

This would of cause have to be balanced when implemented and the effect you can charge yourself with should be much weaker than normal spells as you can chose to use them on 1 target or in a AoE freely.
Maybe you should sacrefice something for each target hit, there by making it less benefistial to use them in a AoE.

Admins can we get a sticky on this forum so it doesn't sink to obscurity. Its a very useful tool.

Seems no one else has added it thus far, the rights for thinking fo it belong to Hirum.

Sangoma ("Witch Doctor")
with
Condition and hex reversal
Condition and hex prevention

What about a class dealing with information/weaknesses and their exploitation?

See an enemy's skill bar, see what enchantments they have, see what they have armor against, see what they can see, see who they are targetting, then use skills that deal the specific damage they have the least armor against, remove a specific enchantment that is on a foe...

Also, skills for denial of information would be neat. Skills so that enemies can't tell when you are activating skills, so they can't tell how much life you have, so they can't tell if they are hexed or not... Something that would go into Illusion Magic, perhaps?

Lastly, skills that change effects depending on the conditions in battle, such as resistance to spells that increases against particular spells as they are used on you. EDIT: Other part removed. I agree with V

Sorry but I gotta dispute with that, while skills like arcane theivery are okey because they affect skills on other people(skills already in the fight), using skills that allow you to change your skills during combat with skills you did not bring with you will enable a class to carry more than 8 skills, while heavy disadvantages would reduce the inpact of this for some skills there are still skills to get around that, long duration enchantments for instance, or enchantment removers(often people don't take them, but if they get a chance to take them withouth sacreficing a skill slot symbiot monks, elemantalists(especially earth) and several dervish builds would suffer severaly)

A skill that alows you to swich skills is broken because the skils you are swiching are not balanced towards being switched during combat, a skill that has multiple effects that where balanced with the use of that skill in mind would be okay.
And even if only skills belong to that class could be swiched, balancing all the skills of that class so that they would not have a major inpact when used agains a specific build(as that is likey why you would want to switch skills) would make that class rather bland.

On the contrairy I like the information hiding idea,
a smoke screen AoE skill that makes your foes unable to see what skills their target is using, or even if they are using a skills
It's a cool idea.

Okay, I actually updated yesterday (although I'm reconsidering labelling Sir Tificate's second suggestion as 'polymorphic skills', as to D&D players that may make people think of shapeshifting, which is a seperate entry on the list) but I thought I'd weigh in with my own comments:

One of the guiding principles in GW is that, once you go into an instance, the only thing that matters is the build and how well you play it. It doesn't matter if Player A has several million XP and every skill in the game unlocked while Player B has only unlocked the skills they need for the build; if players A and B are using the same build, then the only difference between them is their skill level (one could infer that A will be a more experienced and therefor better player with the character than B, although this is not necassarily the case). For maintaining this principle, I don't see anything being introduced that will be based on what skills has been unlocked by a character, just what you've brought into an instance with you. (And this isn't even mentioning PvP characters and heroes, who by their nature have every skill you've ever unlocked unlocked for them.)

That said, there are some skills out there which, reading between the lines, seem to allow the user to have some control over their use. Consider Starburst and it's good twin Healing Burst, for instance: Both seem to have two versions - a relatively cheap single-target effect, and a more expensive AoE effect. While the player doesn't have direct control - the character will automatically choose the AoE effect if there's even a single additional target, and in pure energy-efficiency terms it's often* a good idea - the character can choose to take the single-target option if it's clear the extra energy for the AoE effect would be a complete waste.

So what could be worthwhile is having skills which have two forms they can take. This would require some sort of toggle, which given the mechanics of Guild Wars would require an additional skill (although this could and probably should be one that's completely free to activate - the only cost associated with it is the space on your skillbar) available to all classes. Use of this skill before casting a toggle-able skill uses the non-default form of the skill - for instance, a non-default form of Starburst or Healing Burst could force the use of the single-target effect even if they are multiple targets available.

*A single-target Starburst does X damage for 5 energy, while a double-target Starburst does a total of 2X damage for 10 energy - which has the same energy efficiency as the single-target version, and any extra targets past the second are essentially free. However, this doesn't take attunements into account, which I don't think trigger off the extra energy loss - thus, a Starburst with Fire Attunement up costs 3 energy for X damage or 8 energy for 2X damage. Another loss of efficiency comes from overkill of a secondary target (although with offensive skills, often the important thing is that the target is dead, and a bit of overkill is a good trade), or, on the case of Healing Burst, overhealing (the monk is hit by an arrow for 1 point just before casting a Healing Burst that otherwise wouldn't trigger the condition) and the lack of the Divine Favour bonus on secondary targets for primary Monks.

An alternate function skill is 2 skills, simular but different. The added diversity is naturally an unfair advantage. The only skills which should be considered for multifunctionality are those which lose their original function once they are used, of these there is only one example.

Often pet control has been suggested, and instead of adding additional control interfaces they could alter Charm Animal to allow pet manipulation and control after the animal has been charmed. This is specifically a control feature and not an additional attack. There are some other ways to make skills which would perhaps toggle "ON and OFF" like perhaps a shapeshifting feature, but besides that I wouldn't consider any multifunctional skills, especially if they offer 2 different attack skills in one, ever how simular they may be.

With multifunctional settings you could very well say any number of skills have multiple options, like Fireball and Flare in one skill slot, which is basicly what a toggled starburst is. Or they could toggle Shard Storm and Ice Spikes, or Eruption and Unsteady Ground, or Firestorm and Searing Heat. Your offering 2 skills in one, even if you cannot use both functions at once, it allows more variety, and an unfair advantage in options. I have to say it's broken, there are ways for it to work in particular features, but not what your interested in.

a few things like this have already been posted, but mine is a little diffrent....

Anet sort of dabbled in "area controll" with the rit, ie; controlling a set area (around the rits spirits), and makeing it difficult for an enemy to assualt that poisition. I think it would be sort of interesting to take that a step further, and make enviormental effects. For example; that annoying "Miasma" from shiang jea in Factions. Imagine being able to make a couple patches of that around your GL in GvG...only problem is that you could catch it too. Essentially, varied enviormental effects, some like ranger spirits, and some completely diffrent.

Also, a *true* stealth concept. I think its agreed that Shadow Form was anets way of saying "your invisible! people cant hit you! Except...the engine dosent allow for invisable sins, oops >.>" Ofc, now that we have seen things like "invisable dervs" in ABs (glitches with form skills, ect), it would probably be possible to use the existing form mechanics...and just have a completely transparent texture...just an example here "Cloak of Night Elite Form 5e/2c/10r For 10...35 seconds, you become invisable. This form ends if you take damage, become adjacent to a foe, attack, or use a skill. This skill is disabled for 60 seconds"

I think there are a great deal of Location spells, which almost all of them suck, Now if it takes 15-25 energy, and possible exhaustion to cast a relatively simple damage on a small location, how are they going to balance a Locational "Condition"? It really isn't anything different than Wards, in terms of an advantage or disadvantage on a small location, and yes, Binding Rituals are already a significant source of minimal or brief effects on a large area.

I say there is alot of work to be done fixing the DoT spells and expanding Locational effects on Elementist, adding to it, not moving onto something else.

As for Stealth, for the most part, it is either going to be fairly weak and ineffective, or fairly strong and overpowered. You can target your foes by simply hitting "c" and "Tab", blocking this function is overpowered, allowing this function makes invisiblity basicly a gimmic. There are some creative ways to do it, but there arn't any legitimate applications to what you can chose from.

Actually, there could be ways to do it. One way to do it could be to make it so that 'stealth' makes you invisible to anything outside your aggro bubble. Not much use at first use glance, but I can think of a few tactical applications, but it's still fairly easy to catch someone using it. Hardly a must-have, but it could still be useful... maybe.

It is entirely possible, however, that they have tried and decided it doesn't work. Certainly, one big problem with having stealth with the engine as it currently is is that you can't target the ground - if they can't be targetted, you could know exactly where they are and be unable to do anything about it unless they happened to be near a valid target, when theoretically an Ele would respond to such a threat by simply bombarding the area with AoE effects.

Ok, this is a type of thread I was looking for, except that everyone gets over winded, no offense, but it's alot of reading(so if I repeat something, my appologies)
Here are some ideas with short descriptions.

Whips: Increased melee range(variable per item length).
-Disarm ability, attack(and attack skills) are disabled for X time, and benifits of weapon removed for that same time. (Half casting, E+5, Ench, all that)
Maybe considered caster class.
Could Dual as below..

True Dual Weapons(Referenced in my battlerager as gloves/gauntlets)
(http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10108880)
Each weapon would do half damage, but this would allow for mixing and matching of upgrades/modifiers/appearance. (IE 14-22 overall would be 7-11 each)

Polearm Weaponry, Ranged Melee(multiple opponents with skills)

Rapiers and similar Fencing weaponry
-Piercing damage
Increased range skills(lunges/thrusts)
(not so big of an idea as a cross between warrior weapons and some assassin mechanics)

MountedRiders
(An pet simalicrum(spelling?), but Pet and Pet armor are items req'd in your inventory and/or skill bar)
Speed increases/skills
Leg hits increase
Upper body hits decrease
(The above 2 are for melee attackers, opposite would hold true for ranged attackers)
Healed/Listed as one character, mount not an ally.
Could be rigged for archery or physical combat, or one big meat shield)


(Ideas are definately raw, though I won't be checking up on this thread, so feel free, and don't belittle me, won't be here to read it. Just hope someone can find some inspiration, or work an idea into something usable)

Aeon Xin:

Whip with Disarm? A D&D player?

Sorry to be a BK, but I will refer to my old CC
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=135036

As it have something about Dual Weapon and Rapier there.
(I also have something about mount and pole-arm, but will leave it for now as still attempting to rewrite that one)

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On stealth. From some experience, I would say some dos and don't about it.

-Its relative easy to work but PvE and even PvP, but making it work for both is the the tricky part. And as the skill system in GW goes, it need to work for both.

-Be sure you won't get the one-hit-stealth kill with a stealth skill, as it is very bad for play experience (especially in PvP)

-Be sure to weight in the negative effect of stealth. Things like slow or no moving, no attack, energy and time cost, etc.

-Depend on how stealth is done, but if do have multiple hidding skills, be sure to make it so that one can on just repeatly reuse it over and over again (again, to avoide people in PvP who would just hid all the time )

-Can have associate skills with the stealth, skills that could be only use in hiding.

-Think about the advantage and effect of stealth. I see it as having both offensive, defensive, and movement use, but as something not easy to pull off.

Updated (and bumped)

I've rolled the polearm and rapier suggestions into one category ("Reach" weapons, to use a D&D term), since specific weapons are getting close to being a specific concept rather than a general idea, and your suggested skill types for the rapier involve longer reach. (That said, riposte-type skills are also associated with rapiers...)

Lol! doesn't that seem Like a odd sugestion?

No I definatly said reversal: post 69