drops again
ectospasm
I did a search but theyre mostly dead threads. SO im making this one.
Marked out the names but the First and Last initials so you could add up who got the greens. One person got 3 greens.
This is something that I really do not enjoy wasting my time on rather it be Luck or Not. It should be fair across the board, however they might code it I dont care. It needs to be addressed and FIXED. As do gold drops, chests, ecto, shards, gems. Only 1 ecto dropped in that run. And that was like amazing to everyone in the group giving me a sense that these people dont see ecto much either. I swear its getting to a point where this game and nothing about it is really enjoyable.
Its like anet want to just put everyone in straightjackets, tie them to a chair, put a knife a straw and a fork in thier laps and set the platter of food across the room. Your runing the game with all the nerfs and limitations for PVE game play while we are on the subject, and whoever is telling you "this is what this should do because its better" or "this feels like it doesnt work this way very well and should be like this" they're lying to ruin everyone elses fun.
Hand of Ruin
He netted a total of 3k in greens... w00t for him.
ischuros
And that ogre slaying knife was a real big score
ectospasm
i didnt make this post because the dude got 3 greens nor because im jealous of how much they are worth or care to know how little they are worth. a mature decent person with any sense will see that this post was made to outline the drop rates and allocation and how fukd up they are.
Redfeather1975
I've been on runs in the realms enough to see people get pretty messed up over not getting stuffz.
Just sit back and relax a bit. It's all good.
Just sit back and relax a bit. It's all good.
Hand of Ruin
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Originally Posted by ectospasm
i didnt make this post because the dude got 3 greens nor because im jealous of how much they are worth or care to know how little they are worth. a mature decent person with any sense will see that this post was made to outline the drop rates and allocation and how fukd up they are.
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manitoba1073
im really sorry you feel that the drop system is messed up like that, but it is just all a random roll of the dice.
Spazzer
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Originally Posted by ectospasm
newbs, i didnt make this post because the dude got 3 greens nor because im jealous of how much they are worth or care to know how little they are worth. a mature decent person with any sense will see that this post was made to outline the drop rates and allocation and how fukd up they are.
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But I don't understand what you are saying it is.
ectospasm
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Originally Posted by Hand of Ruin
actually a mature person wouldn't call people newbs and would realize that it's RANDOM and move on... People like you who go into a rage when they don't get a green are why I stopped doing tombs. The system is fine, if you can't deal with the possability that you won't get a green, then green farm somewhere else solo...
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its the drops across the board, not only in tombs. i know its random and am aware its either algorithms or some other form of code that generates it. but ALAS the point of the post is to define that the current system is flawed and unfair and in a perfect world, everyone should get something for thier time and effort doing tombs, fow, uw, elite missions or any type of mob killing.
and im not green farming, i think i almost have all the greens from tombs already. i just do it for FUN and to kill time. but yea, id like to get a green or two or a few golds or some ecto. id most likely sell it for a few k to some incapable foreigner who cant afford a new green item with the same stats from factions or nightfall for 100k+ecto that some greedy careless fool is selling way overpriced. my morals go beyond farming greens to get rich cause i have plenty to get by on. im pretty much a collector and theres not much that i dont have already for myself as far as greens. any more items and my 9 characters will be full.
Gwmaster
its true that sometimes its frustrating wen u waste 2 hours of your life for some fraking purples (the deep ftw)
Alya
It is true that something is wrong with the drop allocation system. A week ago I went to FoW as a bonder, in a team of 5 people, to get some more shards for my ranger's FoW armour. Before that trip, I had not played my monk character for two weeks or so. We completed all Forgemaster quests and got 12 shards in total -- 8 of which dropped for me. One person got 2, one person did not get any (I gave her one of mine). Nothing to complain for me, obviously, but the drop allocation was obviously skewed, the Anet's random number generator gone wild. Normally I am NOT lucky with drops, with any of my chars. Possibly the long rest from the game for my monk was the reason for such a strange drop allocation. Other people in the team were not happy, too...
Curse You
Aera
Oh my God! Are you people ever going to stop whining? Jeez, YOU could have gotten those 3 (crappy) greens as well. Would you still be whining then? I don't think so. Go play another game if you don't like it.
Antheus
I propose the following:
A group of 40 is needed for tombs.
End boss drops 1 collector's item only. Players then decide who gets it. Then you need 10 of those to get a collector at the end of The Deep to craft one single item.
Is that better?
Advice for everyone else: "For your own good, DO NOT go into a casino". You might be surprised about what random and luck mean.
A group of 40 is needed for tombs.
End boss drops 1 collector's item only. Players then decide who gets it. Then you need 10 of those to get a collector at the end of The Deep to craft one single item.
Is that better?
Advice for everyone else: "For your own good, DO NOT go into a casino". You might be surprised about what random and luck mean.
Velvet Wing
keep it friendly guys.. please...
I've seen some weird drops myself, but since they are completely random, there is absolutely no point in discussing, fighting over, complaining about about this at all
I've seen some weird drops myself, but since they are completely random, there is absolutely no point in discussing, fighting over, complaining about about this at all
Darkobra
I go to the tombs for fun. So what who gets what green? Is that any reason to go on a rampage over it? So what if I don't ever get an ecto from there? Does that mean I didn't at least enjoy the time I had? There's a difference between some one getting 100 crappy greens that will never sell and a different person getting 1 green that will sell for loads. Now would the person with one green complain that he never got the 100?
ShaneOfMach
I've gotten Victo's Bulwark, Victo's Axe, and Victo's Maul all in the same run.
Everyone was so pissed at me <_<
Everyone was so pissed at me <_<
Myria
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Originally Posted by Velvet Wing
I've seen some weird drops myself, but since they are completely random, [...]
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In computing there is a very long history of programmers being badly wrong in their estimations of just how broken their pseudo-random number generators are. GW's pseudo-random number generator may be, probably is, 'random enough' for the application. I wouldn't take that as an absolute given, though.
Antheus
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Originally Posted by Myria
Except that they're not. Or, at least, it's extremely unlikely that GW uses a 'true' random-number generator, which must be based on measured unpredictable (to the best of our knowledge) physical process -- and, obviously, even the true randomness of one of those is up for question. Instead GW almost certainly uses an algorithmic pseudo-random number generator. Pseudo-random number generators are always 'broken', in that they're not truly random, it's just a question of exactly how broken they are.
In computing there is a very long history of programmers being badly wrong in their estimations of just how broken their pseudo-random number generators are. GW's pseudo-random number generator may be, probably is, 'random enough' for the application. I wouldn't take that as an absolute given, though. |
All computer generated algorithms are referred to as pseudo-random. This means, they can are not random by definition, since any and all algorithms have a cycle after a certain number of digits were generated.
This is the reason why the numbers aren't considered random, not because they are biased. During the first cycle, numbers generated are random. After that, the same sequence of numbers will be generated.
As an example of currently most viable random number generator, the mersenne twister, has a period of 2^19937 − 1 (an insanely huge overkill number). This means, after this generator has been used to generate this many numbers, the values will repeat themself. As such, it is not a true random number generator, but despite that, every number withing that sequence is statistically random. This was proven to conform with some of the hardest test.
But other than that, pseudo-random number generators are not true random numbers, since they can only generate a finite number of random values, before they start repeating the original cycle.
They are not in any way biased. Any number generation technique that is biased, is no longer random.
vergerefosh
Ogre Slaying Knife is leet! Damage +9 vs ogres, who wouldn't want it? :P
Only really matters if you're doing it for drops instead of fun
Only really matters if you're doing it for drops instead of fun
Myria
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Originally Posted by Antheus
They are not in any way biased. Any number generation technique that is biased, is no longer random.
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GW almost certainly uses a PRNG, hopefully we can all agree on that. PRNGs are inherently 'broken', in that they are inherently periodic functions. Beyond that it's all speculation. Badly coded PRNGs, of which there have been many, have been noted for displaying bias, among other sins, but whether or not GW's PRNG commits any sins beyond not being truly random is something none of us will probably ever know.
jonnybegood
Quote:
| didnt make this post because the dude got 3 greens |
Quote:
| this post was made to outline the drop rates and allocation and how fukd up they are. |
JGaff
I think we've all been on the recieving end here. I've had days where I'll net a black dye or a crappy gold, but I have terrible luck. Whenever I'm in the fissure, ten shards might drop and I'll see none of them.
Final split usually looks like this (out of all personalities)...
Trash Talking Wammo: 2 shards + a gold drop
Nuker Ele: 2 Shards
Confused Healing Breeze Monk: 1 shard + Good Chest Item
Hard Working Mesmer: Dust...whites...maybe a purple on a good day
Barrage Ranger: Shard +Ruby
I'd love to see a system where players could be rewarded for actually helping the group instead of wasting three hours for about 1k in crap (Not exactly rolling on greens per se, but better than a glut for one player)
Final split usually looks like this (out of all personalities)...
Trash Talking Wammo: 2 shards + a gold drop
Nuker Ele: 2 Shards
Confused Healing Breeze Monk: 1 shard + Good Chest Item
Hard Working Mesmer: Dust...whites...maybe a purple on a good day
Barrage Ranger: Shard +Ruby
I'd love to see a system where players could be rewarded for actually helping the group instead of wasting three hours for about 1k in crap (Not exactly rolling on greens per se, but better than a glut for one player)
Franco Power
lmao
I love the fact how you dissed a Warrior,the monk and when you said "barrage" ranger I knew you were just trying to say rangers dont do anything else besides barrage.
Then you put yourself as "Hard Working Mesmer", dude the drops are random, get over it.
Oh and to the thread starter, same to you, drops are random, get over it.
I love the fact how you dissed a Warrior,the monk and when you said "barrage" ranger I knew you were just trying to say rangers dont do anything else besides barrage.
Then you put yourself as "Hard Working Mesmer", dude the drops are random, get over it.
Oh and to the thread starter, same to you, drops are random, get over it.
KamikazeChicken
Just do it with hench and heroes. Send the hench/heroes off screen when you kill the Darkness, and you'll get all drops. >.>
Mr_T_bot
I've said it before and I will say it again. The drop system is a bunch of half-blind drunken monkey's handing out the items to party members. That is the only way to account for this horrible system.
JGaff
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Originally Posted by Legendary Ultimatum
lmao
I love the fact how you dissed a Warrior,the monk and when you said "barrage" ranger I knew you were just trying to say rangers dont do anything else besides barrage. Then you put yourself as "Hard Working Mesmer", dude the drops are random, get over it. Oh and to the thread starter, same to you, drops are random, get over it. |
Point taken folks?
Zehnchu
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Originally Posted by Legendary Ultimatum
lmao
I love the fact how you dissed a Warrior,the monk and when you said "barrage" ranger I knew you were just trying to say rangers dont do anything else besides barrage. Then you put yourself as "Hard Working Mesmer", dude the drops are random, get over it. Oh and to the thread starter, same to you, drops are random, get over it. |
Y.T.
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Originally Posted by Velvet Wing
keep it friendly guys.. please...
I've seen some weird drops myself, but since they are completely random, there is absolutely no point in discussing, fighting over, complaining about about this at all |
math in school ftw
Antheus
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Originally Posted by Myria
You'll hopefully forgive me for noting the circularity of that logic
 .GW almost certainly uses a PRNG, hopefully we can all agree on that. PRNGs are inherently 'broken', in that they are inherently periodic functions. Beyond that it's all speculation. Badly coded PRNGs, of which there have been many, have been noted for displaying bias, among other sins, but whether or not GW's PRNG commits any sins beyond not being truly random is something none of us will probably ever know. |
when loot_dropped assign_to_group_member(random(8))
If you can develop a random function that will show bias towards a specific group member only and only in case of green and gold drops, then props to you.
But beyond that, there is simply no feasible way for any kind of bias to show in loot assignments.
Rather than worrying about obscure number theory fundamentals, how about working out the chances of assigning 3 items to 8 people?
It's surprising. Very surprising.
Mr_T_bot
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Originally Posted by Antheus
But beyond that, there is simply no feasible way for any kind of bias to show in loot assignments.
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In a game like this where no party loot choice exists, the engine should be round robin, period.
Franco Power
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Originally Posted by JGaff
I'm exaggerating for an effect. If I didn't make generalization as to why some people might get frustrated (It's a bit harder to interupt WoH with a spell Power Spike while getting whacked by Shadow Warriors with your 60al than you might realize), It'd be a less colorful reply . Obviously that point is a debate for another thread, but regardless, when your team takes you for granted and gloats over awesome drops, I know I'd be disheartened. I mean, If I got a dollar for everytime someone went Leeroy and survived (while getting shards and such) because a monk or another member of the team managed to control the ensuing crisis (Yes, I've even seen a Mesmer take the plunge before), I'd cover a tank of gas for awhile.
Point taken folks? |
My first character was a mesmer, i've beaten Prophecies/Factions with him, dont think you're the only person in GW that uses a mesmer
.If you saying power spiking a spell is hard then dont come here and whine about it, if you looking for a easy class to play
Frenzy, Healing signet, Healing Hands, Mending
FeroxC
You see what happens is, the computer cant realy create truly random numbers so most the time they use an algorithm to create the number based on a seed number.
To get the seed number they often use functions like this:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...ttickcount.asp
GetTickCount
The return value is the number of milliseconds that have elapsed since the system was started.
So what happens when you kill aload of monsters at the same time ? same seed so the same number is "randomly generated" oh look he got all the greens.
However i doubt the monsters died at the exact same time he probably just got lucky
To get the seed number they often use functions like this:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...ttickcount.asp
GetTickCount
The return value is the number of milliseconds that have elapsed since the system was started.
So what happens when you kill aload of monsters at the same time ? same seed so the same number is "randomly generated" oh look he got all the greens.
However i doubt the monsters died at the exact same time he probably just got lucky
Mr_T_bot
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Originally Posted by FeroxC
You see what happens is, the computer cant realy create truly random numbers so most the time they use an algorithm to create the number based on a seed number.
To get the seed number they often use functions like this: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...ttickcount.asp GetTickCount The return value is the number of milliseconds that have elapsed since the system was started. So what happens when you kill aload of monsters at the same time ? same seed so the same number is "randomly generated" oh look he got all the greens. However i doubt the monsters died at the exact same time he probably just got lucky |
I have never seen such a ridiculous system in any game I have played, and I have played some pretty ridiculous games.
Phaern Majes
As for the ectos, ToPK was never intended for massive ecto drop see the UW for that. Frankly, I'm surprised they even added ectos to ToPK.
Dev121
Not Complaint , because I dont farm .
I guess the system has never been really liked but theres only two choices to what they can do :
Keep it the same , everything is really fair and random maybe add a few more rare drops here and there.
Totaly change the whole system and drop rates , if they increased the drops of rares and rare materials however the prices would drop and fow ect would become like 15k armor .
Personally I couldnt care , doesnt worry me , instead of worrying about drops if your really goldless , get a collector bow and have some fun .
.I guess the system has never been really liked but theres only two choices to what they can do :
Keep it the same , everything is really fair and random maybe add a few more rare drops here and there.
Totaly change the whole system and drop rates , if they increased the drops of rares and rare materials however the prices would drop and fow ect would become like 15k armor .
Personally I couldnt care
, doesnt worry me , instead of worrying about drops if your really goldless , get a collector bow and have some fun .
ectospasm
nice. two pages already...
Adding with what devaney stated on the fow armor.
I dont want Fow cause it sucks. But for those who do want it it will take all of thier time playing GW only doing UW group runs or attempting to duo it. 95% of the people playing cant duo UW nor solo it. They have to do FoW groups. At the current drop rates it will take an estimated 80-240 runs (depending on luck of the PRNG) in UW and FOW in order to get the amount of ecto and shards needed to craft the armor. If you had to pay for your share of the entry fee if a group thats 20-60k again based on how lucky you are getting drops again. Add that plus time + 15k x 5 + other crafting materials= you totally wasted so much time and money. No wonder people buy thier gwgold from web sites because it is much quicker, you actually save money by buying it due to the time you didnt have to spend playing and paying. So all you gotta do is get in a group, have all your materials with you (since you can afford to buy ecto and shards from the trader) do the forgemaster quest and wa-la. You have your FoW armor.
Yet anet want to nerf farming builds and Ai and leave extremely hard processes like getting fow armor as it is, only fueling the fire under those desperate for thier leet armor. I dont get it.
Also, I was going to sell an axe to someone who only had 124k I sold him a cheaper one instead. The next day he had 4x that amount and was ready to buy the expensive one. I think he farmed it overnight, dont you?...
Adding with what devaney stated on the fow armor.
I dont want Fow cause it sucks. But for those who do want it it will take all of thier time playing GW only doing UW group runs or attempting to duo it. 95% of the people playing cant duo UW nor solo it. They have to do FoW groups. At the current drop rates it will take an estimated 80-240 runs (depending on luck of the PRNG) in UW and FOW in order to get the amount of ecto and shards needed to craft the armor. If you had to pay for your share of the entry fee if a group thats 20-60k again based on how lucky you are getting drops again. Add that plus time + 15k x 5 + other crafting materials= you totally wasted so much time and money. No wonder people buy thier gwgold from web sites because it is much quicker, you actually save money by buying it due to the time you didnt have to spend playing and paying. So all you gotta do is get in a group, have all your materials with you (since you can afford to buy ecto and shards from the trader) do the forgemaster quest and wa-la. You have your FoW armor.
Yet anet want to nerf farming builds and Ai and leave extremely hard processes like getting fow armor as it is, only fueling the fire under those desperate for thier leet armor. I dont get it.
Also, I was going to sell an axe to someone who only had 124k I sold him a cheaper one instead. The next day he had 4x that amount and was ready to buy the expensive one. I think he farmed it overnight, dont you?...
Cyan The Archer
So many players who fail to read between the lines(think outside the box?) whatever the line is...
The OP is not annoyed and jealous that he didnt get the 3 greens, but by the fact that its completely random. You spend 2 hours or more clearing an area, hoping for a decent reward, but the drop rate is random. The 3 bosses in Tombs drops 3 greens each 3x3=9. All the players in the party could have gotten a green each and one 2 greens, but they dont, which is unfair.
Why do you think Anet gave a each player on a team a Gemstone if they complete one of the quests? Because they worked their asses off completing it and deserves a reward.
The OP is not annoyed and jealous that he didnt get the 3 greens, but by the fact that its completely random. You spend 2 hours or more clearing an area, hoping for a decent reward, but the drop rate is random. The 3 bosses in Tombs drops 3 greens each 3x3=9. All the players in the party could have gotten a green each and one 2 greens, but they dont, which is unfair.
Why do you think Anet gave a each player on a team a Gemstone if they complete one of the quests? Because they worked their asses off completing it and deserves a reward.
CyberNigma
strcpy (did he change his name to srncpy yet? :-) and I just had a big long spill in another thread about random and patterns and what we think. it really didn't change anything (I started it) as Gaile came in and just told everyone its random anyways. I don't think talking about random or not random is going to change anything if they believe that it is (maybe those of us that think it isn't so random are wrong). if you want it to change, go to the sardelac (suggestion) forum and start a thread asking for it to NOT be random. ask them to spread the loot out evenly or something like that (perhaps still the type of drop being random or something). lots of threads have shown that no complaining about the randomness (including me) will change anything. you should ask ANet to make it what they would consider non-random in some way. you're right, if you go through all that then a roleplaying game (not a game of chance like dice) should reward everyone.
EDIT: Sorry op, I know you weren't complaining about it being random, but I threw that part in there about random for everyone's viewing pleasure since it always comes up. at least spreading them out before doubling them up on characters would be nice.
EDIT: Sorry op, I know you weren't complaining about it being random, but I threw that part in there about random for everyone's viewing pleasure since it always comes up. at least spreading them out before doubling them up on characters would be nice.
floppinghog
if it makes you feel any better.... i've done 8 full Deep runs and well, i never got 1. NOT ONE green from kanaxai.... and some groups were short 3-2 ppl
(first completion was a group of 6 only - lost half the party due to a number of reasons)
when we actually killed him too (meaning not all 8 runs were a full party of 12).
unlike your tombs visit for older greens, i lost out of expensive greens 8 times (oh and remembering one of them the same guy got 2 of the 3 possible greens at once, talk about lame?).
(first completion was a group of 6 only - lost half the party due to a number of reasons)
when we actually killed him too (meaning not all 8 runs were a full party of 12).
unlike your tombs visit for older greens, i lost out of expensive greens 8 times (oh and remembering one of them the same guy got 2 of the 3 possible greens at once, talk about lame?).